AIs behaviour/improvement

[bravo 6 0]

I'd like to say a big thanks to everyone who reads this interview, we're really passionate about the games we create so it really means a lot to us to get a sense of the excitement and anticipation that's building up around ArmA.

I know theres a thread ( "What do you *HOPE* will be in ArmA?" ) with some ideas about this subject.

But i think we could help BIS by beeing more precise and distinguish about how AIs can improve and have better behaviours on different situations.

The "thing" most important/wanted in ARMA is the AIs behaviour..

There for and with the meaning to help BIS in a way i created this thread.

In what way Community thinks BIS could improve AIs behaviour, reaction, personality..

Your Ideas and tought might light BIS alittle more before the release

what can we say about AIs in order to improve their behaviour in all levels..

PS- Once the game is not release yet and they always changing/improving it why not helping them in this distinguish/important subject?

[Hekezu 0]

When an AI gets under fire it should find cover and fast! Or if the AI knows where the fire is coming AI should go prone and respond to fire and it doesn't have to be accurate.

Now in OFP AI doesn't try to find cover immediately. Think how cool it would be if a sniper shoots one guy from AI squad and the squad takes cover. Then AI's beging scanning the horizon while in cover.

AI should also know how tall is the cover, if it is a fance, AI should go prone or crouch behind it. Then AI could peek over the fence by standing up or even better: going to the fence's/building's corner and peeking around it. Not for too long, just to scan for opfor.

So I think currently the most important thing to do is to make AI to find and stay in cover. Another thing is also suppressive and covering fire in AI groups.

[Commando84 0]

i think it would be awesome if you could have a a.i manager in the mission editor like game logics that you place out and link with the a.i squad leaders or individual a.i's and different logics can make them react in different ways.

like if i want a.is to stand up most of the time and run around alot i would choose logic A but if i want a.i to move in slowly and maybe seperated into two assault groups so that if you see one group and fire at them , group B shows up on your flank and attacks.

i think a official sort of version of group link 2 script would really rock the socks of people

[bravo 6 0]

I like your idea Commando84.

I have a thought that can sound like (you ask too much) and maybe hard to implemente for ARMA, but ill say it anyway, maybe BIS can do something about it..

Its a fact that ARMA will have Ambient wildlife (but what does this exactly mean?)

Can AIs decide, react, interact/understand wildlife behaviour? (if wildlife feels "threatened" they will react (run/fly/hide..) and then will AIs act/react noticing those behaviours?)

"Maybe Offtopic" : Can wildlife react in Human/AIs presence? <ul>example 1: if theres a gun fight all birds should stop singing and leave the area. That what normally happens.

example 2: In forest there are lots of birds, if birds detect human presence or some thing strange, they can shut for a while or just fly away.. with this reaction it would be nice is AIs also react to that wildlife behaviour.

In a way this has something to do with improving AIs and their behaviour.

I noticed from one of the videos birds sing when theres a firefight. I also know thats an old video and not ever official one. Meaning BIS could already change this, if not;

Just trying to say AIs could react with wildlife behaviour and also have different behaviours depending the situation.

[Randy 0]

I'd like the AI to freak out sometimes like in AVP or UFO. If a half a marines team gets ripped to pieces and he can hear all sorts of hisses and snarls coming from a dark hallway he will freak out and shoot at everything that moves. Sometimes mowing down his remaining comrades.

The way it could be applied here is if you ambush a squad in a forest and kill them in quick succession, the remaining troops might fire into the foilage, a chaotic effort at defense.

A troop could freak out if he sees some of his buddies blown to pieces by a mortar. He might fire wildly, run in panick or just cower, sobbing.

^^Unlikely situation of course, soldiers are trained to not freak out. But then again, soldiers aren't trained to see their friends pulverized in bloody screams and be powerless to save them, or themselves.

Related to this aspect of AI, some soldiers should surrender if the situation looks to be impossible. Dropping weapons and coming out into the open with their hands up.

[kernriver 4]

Related to this aspect of AI, some soldiers should surrender if the situation looks to be impossible. Dropping weapons and coming out into the open with their hands up.

It's very nicely done in Swat4, if the terrorist is "treated" with flashbang and surrounded by Swat members he will surrender, of course it's QCB, but i guess something similar could work in ArmA too. Btw, since it's probably too late for AI changes in ArmA, these ideas for AI improvements would apply for Game2 also, don't you think?

[martinovic 0]

The AI should react a lot faster then it does in OFP, with a lot longer range of engagement, atleast 300 meters for assault infantry and 1000 + meters for machinegunners and snipers.

Then the usual suppression and squad tactics, but features like that would be very hard to code.

I day dream about realistic combat in ArmA sometimes. you know, taking pot shots at the enemy, rarely even seeing enemy soldiers, always having to move in cover or get shot really fast. The typical sniper/camping fest that is real combat.

[dreday 1]

Excellent suggestions so far!

I would hope that the shortcomings of AI vehicle driving behavior are also addressed in AA. I don't particularly care about the AI controlled vehicles; but when I am a tank commander and I tell my driver to go left he should go left at the exact angle that I told him. In the current versions of OFP, your driver will only take your commands as a general guidance and then start zigzagging like a drunken retard. Such behavior makes it almost impossible to implement proper tactics as a tank commander. Should be an easy fix though...

Peace,

DreDay

[SilverBullet 0]

I'd like to see the AI make use of the equipment around it.

If a squads AT soldier gest killed then they should collect the AT weapon and ammo. If there's an unmanned heavy machine gun then they should make use of it. If the gunner on an M113 gets killed someone should take his place. You get the idea...

[alx 20]

I'll echo what's been said here already. When a soldier goes down in sight of an AI, he should IMMEDIATELY go for cover or at least lie/crouch down. If a gun goes off within hearing distance of an AI, he should immediately go into an alert state, if not go and investigate.

In the latest video of ArmA from the Czech TV channel, you can see AI standing like gormless gits in the middle of a field while their team mates are mown down. There's even one soldier that runs right past the shooting player like a headless chicken! He keeps going in a straight line until he's shot in the back.

If this is the new AI, then regrettably, ArmA will be no change over OFP and so very frustrating/unrealistic.

I've seen the AI working in many a game, including the new Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter, and the best I've seen so far is that in Battlefield 2. Those guys really go after you.

[EiZei 0]

I'd like to see the AI make use of the equipment around it.

If a squads AT soldier gest killed then they should collect the AT weapon and ammo. If there's an unmanned heavy machine gun then they should make use of it. If the gunner on an M113 gets killed someone should take his place. You get the idea...

And have it made it easy to disable for mission makers, overeager AI can be a real bitch to deal with.

[KeyCat 131]

Not much have been said about the AI in ArmA but I'm pretty sure BIS is working hard to improve it a cross the board and hopefully things like supressive fire etc. will be all built into the engine.

One thing that I really hope is fixed in ArmA is the "uber radar" that all AI helicopters/planes/tanks/etc. in OFP are equipped with!

I don't know how the code works but it's my understanding that as soon as there is LOS between your vehicle and a AI enemy helicopter/plane/tank/etc. your vehicle magicly pops up on their radar and they are aware of you. That issue in OFP alone makes fighting tank vs tank against AI close to impossible.

Try to use a regular car or truck to escape an armed enemy helicopter and you will see what I mean. Your'e dead within ~10 seconds after you jump into the car if the helicopter are in the vincinity and often without even know what hit you  

/Christer (a.k.a KeyCat)

[Bouben 3]

I'll echo what's been said here already. When a soldier goes down in sight of an AI, he should IMMEDIATELY go for cover or at least lie/crouch down. If a gun goes off within hearing distance of an AI, he should immediately go into an alert state, if not go and investigate.

In the latest video of ArmA from the Czech TV channel, you can see AI standing like gormless gits in the middle of a field while their team mates are mown down. There's even one soldier that runs right past the shooting player like a headless chicken! He keeps going in a straight line until he's shot in the back.

If this is the new AI, then regrettably, ArmA will be no change over OFP and so very frustrating/unrealistic.

I've seen the AI working in many a game, including the new Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter, and the best I've seen so far is that in Battlefield 2. Those guys really go after you.

are you ok man?? best AI you ever seen is in BF2? :D jesus christ....in BF2 you cant name it AI

best AI i ever seen was in Far Cry with most difficult settings.

and litle detail...video you have seen was from really old old version of ArmA...

[KeyCat 131]

One more thing...

Would be nice if the AI in ArmA somehow reacts when finding dead bodys on the ground without the need of scripting

/Christer (a.k.a KeyCat)

[ryankaplan 1]

-A lot less use of the engage command. When an ai leader sees an enemy, it sends his teammates to engage, which makes them go rambo to try and hunt the enemy. This is why you survive many a firefight because the ai leader sits behind some ridge and sends one guy at a time to engage you. If they do decide to send someone after you, then it should almost always go together as a squad or at least a fireteam, unless you the leader wants to send a sneaky fella to slap the t72 up it's arse with a ATlauncher.

-OFP ai is programed to flank and all, but the way individual ai's respond and move is so retarded, it just puts the squad in more danger. The ai should analyse what buildings/obstacles there are around, and only then decide to flank or not. Eg. don't do it in desert island.

-Together with the use of new animations, make the ai movement alot more fluent. No offense to BIS, but even though ofp ai is programmed to the death, they still are one of the most retarded ones around, because they are so robotic. They have to stop to turn, they have to stop to hit the deck, they have to stop to reload and so on. The original ghost recon ai code is probably the 1/10th of the ofp's ai code, and yet, the AI in ghost recon looks amazingly authentic, i especially loved the way they duck down and crouch-run to the nearest piece of cover if they get shot at. They hide and wait for you to assault, and if everything goes quite for about a minute, they come out to investigate. Basicly, the ai need to not just be authentic, but need to look authentic too.

-(inter squad) Platoon intercom. There should be an inbuilt script or something that allows mission makers to link 2-5 groups together into a platoon,, so the ai squads work together.

[orange juice 0]

i'd love to see a similar enemy behaviour as in Metal Gear Solid 3.

i realize that this game works very different to ofp, but the way the ai reacts to your actions is impressive. Of course it's all arcadish and their paths may follow a certain script, but those guys stick together and actively search their surroundings for the enemy when alerted, do notice corpses, footprints, see and hear glass shatter, you can scare them, they'll call reinforcements, they will take cover, do suppressive fire, you can disable a patrol's radio guy so they are not able to call reinforcements, you can surprise them from behind, they'll put their hands in the air but still you have to be cautious cause they'll try to knock you over if there is a chance...

of course the MGS gameplay is linear, but it seems that the ai is able to act autonomically within the given environment. After a while you'll get to outsmart them, so the advantage is on your side, but still, they have many different facettes of ways to interact with them.

Now things like that, enemy troops looking at each other, constantly checking their pals' positions, slowly advancing, this i'd like to see in ArmA. they have to simulate "human tactical thought" within a group.

That and some tuning in detection and movement routines will make ofp robots turn into ArmA soldiers.

imo.

[Bouben 3]

i must totaly agree with ryankaplan. hope BIS read this

[bravo 6 0]

One of the things that might not be mentioned yet:

When enemy AIs see you they have the hability to lock on you, sometimes its stupid because even if they lose visual contact they still have you locked and know exactly where you are.

example: if they lock you and if you hide behind a house they know if you move and where to.

The idea is: if AIs lose visual contact for determinate time they would lose that extreme locking hability, in other hand would be nice if they still imagine where you could be/do, but not locking players literely.

I would say AIs cheat beacoup.

[orange juice 0]

doesn't the ai lock on work just the same way as when you lock on to an enemy with a tank or something? means when you get behind "actual" cover, the lock on keeps moving to the "guessed" destination of the target?

[coderdfox 0]

OJ is correct, try it in OFP

[bravo 6 0]

I think its alittle different cause you can easyly check/test it using 3rd person view, you will notice that AI is following all movements your taking. If you go right he will fallow your direction and if you turn left he will also change direction and look left, he will fallow your movements even without seeing you.

So we can say its not the "guessed" destination of the target like we have in cadete mode.

[orange juice 0]

k.

[coderdfox 0]

Not sure about that, I just did a test with me running, followed by bad guys 50m behind over a hill and then taking a right and hiding and they cont the direction I was going.

Or maybe it just seemed that way

[bravo 6 0]

I normally notice that behaviour from AIs when i coop in MP..

I also notice AIs (example tank) lock some AT guy (who just fired) and if i also fire to that tank (to distract) Tank still lock that poor guy (player) untill hes dead. And only then tank will lock me.

Normally if some guy is hide and other is firing at tank, tank should engage that "new target"

[ebns72 0]

I hope BIS reads this...

IMO, right now the one thing holding ofp back from total realism is the AI. It sucks...badly.

I would like the AI to take cover. Not run his little ass in zig-zags when under fire, but the second that first round flies over his head his reaction should be to get to where the enemy can't hit you. In real combat, this is usually the smartest action and the one a real person would most likely take.

I would love to also see him to be able to be supressed into cover, pop his head out, fire some rounds, and get back into cover. When rounds start coming near the AI, even if they are generally not that close, they should head for cover. Right now at most they will just go prone in the middle of the field...this doesn't really help much. They should get behind a tree or something.

I would also like to see more alert, smarter AI. As in no more AI sprinting past you from 5 feet away.

I would like to see a more trigger-happy AI. Right now the AI seems to just run around and do...absolutely nothing before going prone, hunkering down, locking on, and firing at you. This "process" can take like 15 seconds. That is a long time in the speed of combat, and by that time, they've already seen the flash The AI's instinct should be to fire back when fired upon, not run around like an idiot. Even if the bullets not aimed and just in the general direction of the enemy to keep them supressed...see one of the previous points.

Right now the AI also has only one focus point. They only focus on one thing at a time. Thus, if they are focusing and firing at one target, they are completely oblivious to the cloud of lead coming from you, the player, or another AI, or the fact that the guy next to him's brains just got turned into pudding. The AI should have greater situation awareness.

I would also like to see AI have better tactics and formations. I mean just some simple supress and flank by the AI would put a lot of pressure on the player. Also, the AI goes prone too much IMO. Nothing more annoying than when there is an enemy no where near the squad and you, the player not in command, want to move up but they just keep low crawling at a snail pace.

I would like the AI to be able to get out of the "formation mentality" and have more freedom of movement. As far as movement goes, the AI's number one priority seems to be formation. As far as I've seen, in real combat and just simple videos from irarq, formation has more do with covering general flanks and corners rather than keeping an aircraft-like perfect delta flight fromation. I would like to see them be more individual, IE go to the nearest cover and move up to cover (still in relation to their squad, however) check corners where the player might be hiding, etc.

this screen looks quite promising for the previous two paragraphs. I hope it is not mere coincidence that some guys are covering their teamates moving up while behind the cover of trees.

Better ai skill in general, both team and enemy...I always feel like I am the star of the show. I always feel like I am the one taking all the kills. This because I am. You should be the unskilled one compared to the AI. I focus a lot on keeping my absolutely retarded teamates alive to complete a mission (not as in keeping your buddies to fight another day, as in killing that AI five feet from my retarded teammate sprinting past him) rather than keeping my own butt alive as it should be.

It would also be nice to just tell my half my AI squad to "flank" and trust they know what they are doing and get it done. OFP feels so incredibly constrained as far as tactical options go. Thats because the AI is too stupid to perform anything tactical without them screwing it up. I have tried so many supress and flanks with the friendly AI before, but between the annoying command interface, the stupid AI, and other things it always ends in complete disaster. I might note I LOVED the command system in brothers in arms...this is a perfect example of what I mean done right. Something like this in ofp would be fantastic. You tell your team to move and flank, and they do it intelligently, moving up from cover to cover, supressing the enemy, etc. And the command is extremely quick and flexible, unlike ofp's clumsy system.

/rant And another thing: AT AI. Nothing is more frusterating when a TRAINED AT SOLDIER fires 3 rockets at a tank AND MISSES EVERY SINGLE ONE. /rant

It is too easy, IMO, in flashpoint to go rambo and kill dozens of soldiers. Flashpoint is actually quite unrealistic compared to other games in this area. I can kill 20+ men in one mission. Compare this to something like America's army where I am lucky to get one or two.