big cities in game2

[funnyguy1 0]

*Q: What will be the Game 2 maps like? Will there be huge cities and for example trains?

Official answer: Even nowadays the engine can make big cities, but they are mostly for military training. The question is if the player will be trapped there or if it will be an interesting fight. Here we need game designer to make perfectly playable game. Unfortunately, the reality is more grey.

--------------------------

First of all, I want to say that I`m not objective at all. I want to see very complex urbanized areas in game 2, and some nice cqb (with improoved ai and stuff, really no need to copy things from the suggestions board). Moreover, would be great to play as an apache pilot first, then clean te city on foot or in a tank. If you overlook some armour as a pilot, then later the at guys have something to do, etc.

I was inspired by 2 movies from Karbala, in one, the cobra gunner destroys something heavy under an overpass with a TOW, and then the second one shows operation spear, where infantry is cleaning the town, and in some moment you can see the same overpass in the background.

Even if cqb isn`t included in the campaign, we could make great missions using those large cities...  they want to know if we`ll enjoy it? Let`s tell them...

*a question from the interview with CGM.cz

pic from militaryphotos.net (fallujah)

[Guest Ti0n3r]

Big cities! Of course we want them! It's supposed to be a military simulation ffs

[martinovic 0]

I want them to be atleast this big.

http://www.steelbeasts.com/pe/Zvornik-Bosnia.JPG

http://www.steelbeasts.com/pe/Minaret%20square-Zvornik.JPG

[Skewballzz 0]

OMG, what map is that bosnia city from? Please tell me its realeased and open for play...

[Guest Ti0n3r]

I want them to be atleast this big.

http://www.steelbeasts.com/pe/Zvornik-Bosnia.JPG

http://www.steelbeasts.com/pe/Minaret%20square-Zvornik.JPG

That's the size I would expect them to be.

[NeMeSiS 11]

I want them to be atleast this big.  

http://www.steelbeasts.com/pe/Zvornik-Bosnia.JPG

http://www.steelbeasts.com/pe/Minaret%20square-Zvornik.JPG

That's the size I would expect them to be.

http://www.virtualbattlespace.com/shop/tp3.jpg

Altough the top right pic might be a bit too big, but something like that should defenitly be in.

[funnyguy1 0]

Too big?  If you had a proper cqb settings (ai, movements etc) for this kind of fight,city like that, full of enemies, you would need a couple of days to kick them out. You say it would be too big?

Missions during night? Big clouds of smoke over the city? Requesting abrams/at soldier/helo for mousehole.

Well, I wantet to live this out somehow but, it`s indispensable i think:

-FLIR & guided missiles for helos/UAV`s  ]:->

-thermal imaging

-lot of destructable objects, rubbish, empty cars on the streets

-destructable buildings

-usage of penetration values of every material

-armour that moves paralel to you, covering rather than rushing wherever they find an enemy and dying from rpg fire

-indoor fights, room breaching & cleaning

-fighting for every building  

Now, WHY it shoudln`t be included? I mean, sure, some of you say ofp isn`t about cqb...And I`m trying to say that ofp WASN`t about cqb...

[NeMeSiS 11]

Too big?  If you had a proper cqb settings (ai, movements etc) for this kind of fight,city like that, full of enemies, you would need a couple of days to kick them out. You say it would be too big?

Well, personaly i would love such a big city, but if you have to completely fill it up with enemies/civilians, it gets laggy as hell, even the largest city on GAIA gets laggy when you fill it up

[Guest Ti0n3r]

I don't think that city is too big at all. Come on, the game is called "The Next Generation PC Game". They've said that this game will introduce things never before seen in any military game. I think we shoulde expect this game to be at least as revolutionary as Ofp was back in 2001.

If they'll be able to cope with that is another question.

[martinovic 0]

The more i hear about Arma the less faith i have in BIS.

[Stendac 0]

Big cities! Of course we want them! It's supposed to be a military simulation ffs

I agree. Warfare in urban environments is so common in real life that its would be very noticeable if it is not included in the next gen game. But, I have no doubt that BIS is already planning to have cities like that. I think the CQBs in urban environments will still feel distinctly like OFP.

[westy159 0]

We need cities/towns but not huge ones like those pics. Island of this size wouldnt have cities like that anyway. And you would easily get lost in cities like that. In real life you would study maps for ages so you know the area off by heart. Do you really want to study a map for an hour so you dont get lost in the game?

Call me gay if you must but I prefer the fighting in the coutryside with fields, hills, mountains, valleys, woods, forrests, streams, lakes and small villages.

EDIT (one year after making this message): Well this is odd. I came into this topic having forgotten ever reading it before, let alone remembering that I posted in it, and now my attitude is that CQB is what Game 2s main element should be.

We have country fighting and now I want to have some heavily realistic fire fights in the streets of cities. Like something from Black hawk Down or even the videos you see of our soldiers in Iraq today.

[funnyguy1 0]

No one says you`ll be forced to play only in towns. It`s obvious that there would be fields, mountains, forests etc.

[Guest Ti0n3r]

Do you really want to study a map for an hour so you dont get lost in the game?

Yes! hehe

[PainDealer 0]

We need cities/towns but not huge ones like those pics. Island of this size wouldnt have cities like that anyway. And you would easily get lost in cities like that. In real life you would study maps for ages so you know the area off by heart. Do you really want to study a map for an hour so you dont get lost in the game?

Call me gay if you must but I prefer the fighting in the coutryside with fields, hills, mountains, valleys, woods, forrests, streams, lakes and small villages.

I totally agree with you there.

what I think is that people don't quite get the idea what CQB really is IRL cos they've only seen CQB in games and hollywood movies. I've been trained as some sort of CQB specialist and I can say that it's nearly everything else but running with your gun in level with your eyes all the time. you only do room take outs that way and if extreme caution is needed walking down a hallway. covering is done by securing every possible direction in a steady position while few gyus do the dirty work.

cleaning big cities is not much CQB based and it needs hard work and time to complete. the enemy will surely have defensive positions like small fortifications and the attacking force will surely need to dig in as well. they can't be just CQB'd.

[stakex 0]

We need cities/towns but not huge ones like those pics. Island of this size wouldnt have cities like that anyway. And you would easily get lost in cities like that. In real life you would study maps for ages so you know the area off by heart. Do you really want to study a map for an hour so you dont get lost in the game?

Call me gay if you must but I prefer the fighting in the coutryside with fields, hills, mountains, valleys, woods, forrests, streams, lakes and small villages.

Well the small islands of OFP and ArmA will not be in Game2. The devs have already said the maps will not be islands like previous games. So its very likely we will be playing on very large maps in which a large city would fit. And Id very much assume there will be an ingame map just like OFP... so getting lost shouldn't be a problem either.

But just becasue you might perfer to play in the open, away from cities dosn't mean cities shouldn't be there. Some like urban, some like the countryside... so there should be a good balance of both. In the modern world we live in, its very unrealistic to think fighting would only happen in small towns and away from cities... urban combat in large cities is a fact of life in modern combat.

[Sturmwolf 0]

In such a huge city, I would completely get lost!

I would get trapped in dead-ends!

I would not be able to find a way out for hours!

I would be killed after each corner!

PERFECT! IMPLEMENT! IMPLEMENT!

(especially with game2's destructable buildings thingy building *custom* ways to go through the city woulda be great )

[olemissrebel 0]

they dont use maps in iraq, they use satellite images ALWAYS.

[djura 0]

Isn´t writed:

"

Cities were to be laid siege to, or defended. They weren't

for fighting in. You couldn't see, you couldn't group, you

couldn't manoeuvre and you were always going to be up against

people who knew the place like their own kitchen.

"

?

I don´t like cities. Free landscape (I realy don´t know why so few missions are about fighting in free landscape) or towns are much better.

[Sturmwolf 0]

there must always be a balance. fighting on grass all the time is getting boring without a difference after a while. and ofp didnt really have a large amount of landscape features. a few trees and bushes, but for example no grass/high grass and therefore only the shape of hills and valleys change upon the position you are at atm. but u early get that its just a shootout, and personally i dont like takin on an enemy 500 metres away with an assault rifle. it gets annoying after a while since its just a shootout with minimum tactical possibilities. in a city you can outsmart the enemy not only by showing or covering. you can flank, get behind him, use grenades and many more. though we got enough cqb shooters out there, so without the landscape it woulda get boring also.

keep the balance.

[djura 0]

there must always be a balance. fighting on grass all the time is getting boring without a difference after a while. and ofp didnt really have a large amount of landscape features. a few trees and bushes, but for example no grass/high grass and therefore only the shape of hills and valleys change upon the position you are at atm. but u early get that its just a shootout, and personally i dont like takin on an enemy 500 metres away with an assault rifle. it gets annoying after a while since its just a shootout with minimum tactical possibilities. in a city you can outsmart the enemy not only by showing or covering. you can flank, get behind him, use grenades and many more. though we got enough cqb shooters out there, so without the landscape it woulda get boring also.

keep the balance.

hmm... I have to agree...

[funnyguy1 0]

From the nice article on defence-update.com about the urban warfare.

(...)In past conflicts, offensive military operations have usually been conducted in urban environments only when unavoidable. Leaders of armies preferred to bypass areas posing significant threats or obstacles to their forces. In most cases, military action in urban areas would only occur when military units were forced to pass through villages or urban terrain due to the co-location of river crossings, strategic junctions, etc., with these population centers.

In the post cold-war era, however, conflicts are shifting from the wastelands, deserts, and jungles into the cities, where terrorists, insurgents, or guerillas find safe havens in environments that also provide a rich target environment(...)

Although the urban warfare is difficult and complicated, It`s unavoidable irl. It`s also very hard to simulate.

BIS had doubts concerning the implementation of cities into game2 maps, so for all those who haven`t got better arguments than "I don`t like cities" or "I suffer from claustrophobia", plz vote don`t care, because we all know that other types of terrain will be in game2...

[God of Death 0]

I like the idea of big cities a lot but landscape battles are awesome too. Btw, in game 2 MP you will probably not be the only player to get lost in a city and so what if you get lost, just shoot your way to the town square, what will be perfectly possible with the destructible buildings there

- Rick

[lkavadas 0]

I want a city

.

[kuIoodporny 45]

Cities as Praha? Warsaw? Moscow? Berlin? else? depends on island size.