small arms vs choppers

[Satchel 0]

I think the problem really emerges from to too few hitzones and according damage modelling. For example a fatal hit in the tailrotor would ground all helicopters, making them uncontrollable. A hit in the avionics, hydraulic, electric systems would make flying extremely hard if not impossible.

It´s either destroy the vehicle completely or it keeps nailing you, there´s not much inbetween except maybe the tank cannons that can be disabled.

There´s too little taken into account, that´s why i think damage display has more in common with command&conquer than with anything else, not at least because of the   allround "health bar", makes me really feel like i´m really playing a arcade game.

I know OFP isn´t a vehicle sim in the first place, but i hope modders will get rid of this as soon as the tools are released, going from arcade to more serious Simulation for vehicles.

[charles 0]

there were a couple times that when i was in a tank (M1 or T80) i shot the Hinds with the HE shell of the main gun and it worked like magic! but this is more like luck than anything else

[Sandman 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (amos m @ Jan. 20 2002,12:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The Stingers are weak and useless.<span id='postcolor'>

The stingers aren't meant for choppers. They're for taking down the jets, and they'll do that in one hit. That's why they're so fast.<span id='postcolor'>

Tell that to the afghans...(mujaheddins)

They took down alot of Hind with Stingers during the Soviet offensive....

[FetishFool 0]

It only takes 1 Stinger missile to take down any aircraft in real life.

But this ain't real life. *sigh*

Stinger's are fully automated, They'll lock onto the first aircraft they detect by themselves.

The operator doesn't get to choose targets, in real life.

The Apache is supposed to be 100% bulletproof. But not in this game. :/

In OPF, your character is able to hang outside of a vehicle. This is an MP bug. You are able to sit anywhere in the vehicle while being pilot. You just have to press the movement buttons while you're getting into the vehicle.

I've managed to sit all the way back at the tail-rotor doing this. Most people get sent above the main rotors.

[Fenix83 0]

a SA-7 (Strela) explodes when it is close of its target. Every SAM missiles explodes like a big fragmentation charge without touching the target (InRealLife)

[amos m 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sandman @ Jan. 21 2002,17:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The Stingers are weak and useless.<span id='postcolor'>

The stingers aren't meant for choppers. They're for taking down the jets, and they'll do that in one hit. That's why they're so fast.<span id='postcolor'>

Tell that to the afghans...(mujaheddins)

They took down alot of Hind with Stingers during the Soviet offensive....<span id='postcolor'>

I'm talking about a game here.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">OK, if we cant use Stinger's, and small arms are out of the question, how do we take out a Hind, unless you happen to have a Vulcan handy?

I'm sure we all know just how hard it is to hit a moving chopper with a LAW or Carl Gustav 84mm {I know it can be done, but it's very difficult. Oh, and for the record, I found it takes 2 LAW hits to do the job}.

I've found that jumping in an empty .50 machine gun is usually suicide against a Hind, too.

Is the best tactic simply to hide if you don't have the right hardware?<span id='postcolor'>

Who said taking out a hind was meant to be easy?

[Sandman 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (amos m @ Jan. 21 2002,11:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The Stingers are weak and useless.<span id='postcolor'>

The stingers aren't meant for choppers. They're for taking down the jets, and they'll do that in one hit. That's why they're so fast.<span id='postcolor'>

Tell that to the afghans...(mujaheddins)

They took down alot of Hind with Stingers during the Soviet offensive....<span id='postcolor'>

I'm talking about a game here.<span id='postcolor'>

got it...

[InqWiper 0]

When U said that U couldnt lock a stinger on a planve i vetaran mode, did U try several times and the missile missed or was it just that U didnt see it lock , cuz U dont in veteran mode.

U can take down any chopper with AA or LAW, U just gotta hit right, and if the chopper is close to the ground it will lose control and crash and explode cuz of the crash, maybe not cuz of the fdamage caused by the AA.

[amos m 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The Stingers are weak and useless.<span id='postcolor'>

The stingers aren't meant for choppers. They're for taking down the jets, and they'll do that in one hit. That's why they're so fast.<span id='postcolor'>

Tell that to the afghans...(mujaheddins)

They took down alot of Hind with Stingers during the Soviet offensive....<span id='postcolor'>

I'm talking about a game here.<span id='postcolor'>

got it... <span id='postcolor'>

Glad to hear it.

BTW. My box is bigger than your's.

Hang on. Did I just call myself a chick? And a slut at that!

WOOHOO!!! They always seem to have more fun at it than I do.

[DodgeME 0]

Hi,

btw first post here

Anyway l managed to shoot down a Hind with a HEAT round of a T-80 in the mission where you have to find the tank base as a Spec Op guy. Also a hit a Hind from the side with a law and it fell to the ground. M-16 wouldn't to nothing to the Hind and l got killed for trying.

I never have tired a Stigger against a plane lol but trying to hit a hind with it made it go on one side but then it started chasing me, l soon died.

As l have understand the game is a bit unrealistic with these things. I would like future updates to correct this.

[amos m 0]

join the queue dude. Just take a look at what ppl want.

Bug fixes, better graphics, addons, mods. The lot. And some want it to be a job lot.

[christophercles 0]

Taking down aircraft with tanks is a tactic i commonly use in multiplayer, they dont expect it from a tank, a shilka or a vulcan maybey, but not a tank. And irl, the t80 actually has an aa round that is shot throught the barrel.

[nordin dk 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The Stingers are weak and useless.<span id='postcolor'>

The stingers aren't meant for choppers. They're for taking down the jets, and they'll do that in one hit. That's why they're so fast.<span id='postcolor'>

Tell that to the afghans...(mujaheddins)

They took down alot of Hind with Stingers during the Soviet offensive....<span id='postcolor'>

I'm talking about a game here.<span id='postcolor'>

got it... <span id='postcolor'>

Glad to hear it.

BTW. My box is bigger than your's.

Hang on. Did I just call myself a chick? And a slut at that!

WOOHOO!!! They always seem to have more fun at it than I do.<span id='postcolor'>

Don't try to build quote-pyramids, it will be stopped  

<span style='color:red'>But, back to the topic:</span>

@Sith: How can you say it is impossible to shoot the pilot of a chopper, when so many people seem to be doing it?

I see it happen often in MP.

[amos m 0]

It's only impossible to do to hind's. If it does happen it's an mp bug.

[Major Fubar 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">When U said that U couldnt lock a stinger on a planve i vetaran mode, did U try several times and the missile missed or was it just that U didnt see it lock , cuz U dont in veteran mode.

U can take down any chopper with AA or LAW, U just gotta hit right, and if the chopper is close to the ground it will lose control and crash and explode cuz of the crash, maybe not cuz of the fdamage caused by the AA.<span id='postcolor'>

Ah, this may have answered my question.

I wasn't getting the little lock-box thingy, and I assumed I wasn't locked. May have just been because I was on veteran.

--------------

As to taking down Hinds, what are the armor specs of the hind? I know an RPG-7 is rated to penetrate 330mm of armor, the M72 LAW 350mm and the Carl Gustav 400mm.

I'm not criticising the reality of the game, but surely these types of weapons could take down a Hind with one hit to the main body of the chopper? If I'm wrong, please let me know.

This is what I've found, from testing in the mission editor, that it take's to down a hind:

- 1 Carl Gustav

- 2 TOWs {this is really bizarre!}

- 2 LAWs

- 4 Stingers

- 18 25mm cannon rounds

- about 200 MG rounds (.50)

Oh and for the record, I agree taking down a Hind shouldn't be easy, but (given the right tools) it shouldn't be next to impossible either! (Maybe we need Sly Stallone with some explosive tipped arrows?)

[amos m 0]

We'er talking about killing the pilot in the hind.

And you shoulda called yerself Major Lee Fubar, or something.

[Major Fubar 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">We'er talking about killing the pilot in the hind.

And you shoulda called yerself Major Lee Fubar, or something.<span id='postcolor'>

 Actually, I just wanted plain old Fubar, but it was taken! D'oh!  

But you're right, the original debate was about taking out the pilot. Point taken. Lets just say, it can't be done? I think most agreed the game mechanics made the Hind cockpit 100% bulletproof.

[amos m 0]

nk!

[KaRRiLLioN 0]

Have any of you guys seen that movie Mamoru Oshii's Avalon? That has some Shilkas and Hinds in it. Man oh man are those Hinds some awesome looking beasts. They are HUGE!! There's also some other really cool looking chopper that I'm not sure is real or what but it looks kinda like the Hind but it has 2 top rotors on it at an angle.

Anyway, I was really awestruck at just how massive and cool those hinds are. They look a bit smaller in OF, but they're still pretty damned cool.

Didn't the Soviets ever make something a bit smaller though, more like the Apache or Cobra?

[762WorldOrder 0]

"But you're right, the original debate was about taking out the pilot. Point taken. Lets just say, it can't be done? I think most agreed the game mechanics made the Hind cockpit 100% bulletproof. "

I've shot down a Hind with an M21.  You have to hit almost straight on, right through the pilot's windshield.  I didn't think it could be done either, but someone around here told me they'd done it, and I tried and succeeded at doing it in a MP game.  You best bet is still to fire a LAW at the tail rotor, though.

And why the hell don't the quotes work? Is it too hard for message board designers to conform to the standard

[/Quote] tags? I click the quote button and all I get is on

bracket at the start, and it doesn't work.

[Damage Inc 0]

You have to press it again and it puts the [/Quote] tag in.

[762WorldOrder 0]

I tried that too but it didn't work...

[KILO 0]

I personally think taking down a chopper is easy with a gun I made a mission where some AH-64's fly over and shot at stuff, one was hovering, a few shots and BAM the gunner is dead, another 10 shots and the pilot was dead. I also shoot down choppers with my machine guns in missions where i screw around. I have never tried to take down a MI24 though. Once I fired a short burst at a MI-17 but didnt really care about killing the pilot.

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KaRRiLLioN @ Jan. 22 2002,17:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Have any of you guys seen that movie Mamoru Oshii's Avalon?  That has some Shilkas and Hinds in it.  Man oh man are those Hinds some awesome looking beasts.  They are HUGE!!  There's also some other really cool looking chopper that I'm not sure is real or what but it looks kinda like the Hind but it has 2 top rotors on it at an angle.

Anyway, I was really awestruck at just how massive and cool those hinds are.  They look a bit smaller in OF, but they're still pretty damned cool.

Didn't the Soviets ever make something a bit smaller though, more like the Apache or Cobra?<span id='postcolor'>

Yhea the Russians have a smaller gunship, probably the same one you mentioned. They call it "Black Shark" (Nato designation KA-50 Hokum). It's designed as a direct counter to the Apache and apparently it's the first and only gunship to need only 1 crewmember and features an ejection seat!! (no idea how that would work but my guess would be it'd eject you sideways...or maybe jetisson the blades first)...anyway here's a link with a pic of a Hokum flying alongside a Hind.... Hokum & Hind in formation

[Lord Talis 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (charles @ Jan. 20 2002,23:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">there were a couple times that when i was in a tank (M1 or T80) i shot the Hinds with the HE shell of the main gun and it worked like magic! but this is more like luck than anything else <span id='postcolor'>

Yes you need a lot of luck but it works.