america outa saudia ?

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Brentk @ Jan. 23 2002,00:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">OK the russians left the war because of lenin and that whole story, i know russia is PART of europe, but it is MAINLY ASIA.  i have a point there.  anyway YOU WERE BY NO MEANS BEATING THE GERMANS in WW II prior to the US's entry.  Rommel was still heading the Afrika Korps, europe was all but german.  THE UK was being bombed by the luftwaffe.  Russia was being slaughtered.  

Final thoughs

The US could not have won the war with european allies.

The US would not have been in the war if not for european allies(sorta)

Germany could have taken over england if they hadn't been so stupid as to open a front against the vast nation of USSR(part of asia )

The UK was partially supplied by the US

yeeeaaah<span id='postcolor'>

Germany didn't take over the UK 'cos they didn't want to. Operation Sea Lion was a scam. I saw it on discovery.

[Brentk 1]

lol, i never said it was or wasn't I just said they could have. just as japan could have invaded the USA. lalalalalalalalaallaalalalala

nazi soldiers=best soldiers ever

nazis=bastards

brentk=doesn't like nazis(just to clear things up!)

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

oh, i agree, the nazi army was one of the best and most efficient in that period...but the nazis themselves were vicious bastards

we were able to fight of the italians (even though we were outnumbered and outgunned), but the nazis were too much for us

they were just as bad as the turks

[Pete 1]

main part of the german army was not Nazi, nor would the main part of russian army at the time be Communist, or american dito's democrats (capitalists)....

it was the nazis who were sending the german army to war, the commies send the russian army to war etc etc

i just thought id post this here before any angry german sees this and stops supplying beer to YOUR contries.

[Pete 1]

as for who saved europe....

anyone ever thought that IF the germans would have won, they would have been seen as the saviours of europe today...the winners write the history.

and the what if.....without ussr (europe, goddamit!!..the battles were fought in european part of russia, so there! ) nothing would have stopped the germans.

85% of german army were lose on the eastern front...can you imagine what odds you would have faced with a D-day against the germans who would NOT be sending troops to fight a untoppable enemy in the east.

if you want to make a list of who contributed most, the first place goes to russia, no argument there.

and who comes second, usa or uk?

who cares?...still a ALLIED effort.

without USA more russian had died, england MIGHT have been starved to death by german subs and forced to surrender eventually.

but russia still would not have lost, they took millions of casualties and come back stronger, germany never would have had the manpower to conguer them...perhaps germans had reached moscow, but if you look at the map you see that moscow is not even halfway into russia..there is a lot of strenght left behind moscow.

[Brentk 1]

true pete, but when one is from a country, they are usually considered a "commie"(commie country) or a "nazi"(nazi germany). That good easily go either way though. oh well. I still call German soldiers nazis(WW II ones) and USSR ones commies.... as the call the british brits and as the US are called "yanks"

whats up with that? why the sh.t do europeans call us yanks still? i mean i don't mind but why not call us "Americans" lol uhhh huhhhh

*note -last 2 examples are stupid

[Pete 1]

yeah, i know.....ive seen before on the forums angry germans reply on "nazi soldiers" comments...its a sensitive issue.

many germans i met are ashamed of there country, still...after so long time and even if it was only the granddaddys who did the dirty stuff.....

perhaps the next generation?

btw.....yanks is for me not a bad thing, it doesnt have a negative meaning in it either.......if anything then it has a positive meaning

americans.....too much to type, yanks is better

and.....why the hell everyone call us "finns" or "finnish"?...we are "suomalaisia"...damn it!! lol

[Wobble 1]

dont forget that before US joined the war it send all that stuff over there...

and just because the Russians managed to lose the most men doesent make them the best... the Russians didnt beat Germany, the Russian winter did.

some people actually think Japan surrendered because the russians were coming LOL!!

yes Im sure being hit by single bombs that destroy entire cities tiwce had nothing to do with it..

[Pete 1]

during/after stalingrad (far before us entered the war) russian and german losses were almost at the same level.

the vast majority of russian total losses were civilian, not soldiers.

and the winter was a great problem for the germans, true..but russians were in the same conditions, the winter alone didnt stop the germans...they fought nearly 5 years...that is 5 summers that they were stopped by the russians, 5 autumns and springs also, if the winter would be what stopped the germans and not the russian army im sure they would have just marched onwards moscow as soon the winter was over.

the truth is more likely that the winter gave the russians some time to breath and regroup..not much more than that.

you show a lot of disrespect towards russia who killed 85% of a enemy usa + the rest of allies combined killed the remaining 15% of.

im not saying usa did nothing, and they did "aid" a lot even before they entered the war..but they were not decisive to the outcome of the war, the russians were.

my nation sided with the germans..so im not supporting russia or other european nations becouse my nation was a part of beating them, usa did add a enourmous effort to the war, but so did all other nations...and none more than mother russia.

[Placebo 29]

The thing I don't understand is this irresistable urge to have the exact same discussion every few months?

[Thehamster 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (placebo @ Jan. 23 2002,17:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The thing I don't understand is this irresistable urge to have the exact same discussion every few months?<span id='postcolor'>

More like every other week.

[Assault (CAN) 1]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the over-extended supply lines that the Germans had in WWII when they invaded Russia, the same with troops, they were spread very thinly.

IMO, the Germans lost WWII not because of allied superiority but because of Hitlers dumb decisions and a few flukes. I shall attempt to touch on a few of them.

1. Deciding to bomb London instead of continuing to bomb tactical targets. The Germans first bombed London by accident and the RAF followed up by bombing Berlin, then Hitler decided to try and demoralize the Brits by bombing cities. The Luftwaffe nearly had the RAF beat. The number of skilled pilots were low, ditto with aircraft numbers. A few more months of this and the RAF would have been history. Few people can argue this.

The blitz on London gave the RAF the break it needed to regroup and get stronger.

2. The alliance with Japan. They should have stayed out to avoid conflict with the Americans.

3. Operation Barbarosa. Why invade a country that is too big for your current army to handle?

4. Declaring war on the U.S.

5. Not making any long term design developments before the war. Hitler thought the war would be over in a few months so he would not commit funding to projects such as the Rocket program or long range bombers.

6. Invading North Africa.

7. Believing that the allies would land at Calais and not Normandy. Even when the Allies did land, Hitler refused to send his best units to Normandy becasue he thought it was a diversion for the "real" attack at Calais.

8. Not commiting enough money to the German Navy. The system was corrupt and the U-Boats did not get enough funding, most of it went to the surface fleet.

Those are the reasons that I could think of off the top of my head. Does anyone else have anything they would like to add?

Also IMO, the major reason WWI ended was because of the Influenza virus and also because the Germans could not keep up with production.

Imagine, our whole world would have been differnet VERY different if a 19 year old boy by the name of Gavrillo Princip would not have assasinated the Arch Duke Ferdinand that fatefull day in Serbia.

Tyler

P.S. sorry for the LONG post. HTH

[Wobble 1]

if 85% of german casualties were from Russin.. then it only took 15%of the german army to almost literally squeeze briton dry... destroy its airforce.. etc etc..

I dont know where the 85% figure camr from... probably from the Russian gov.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Assault (CAN) @ Jan. 23 2002,22:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the over-extended supply lines that the Germans had in WWII when they invaded Russia, the same with troops, they were spread very thinly.

IMO, the Germans lost WWII not because of allied superiority but because of Hitlers dumb decisions and a few flukes. I shall attempt to touch on a few of them.

1. Deciding to bomb London instead of continuing to bomb tactical targets. The Germans first bombed London by accident and the RAF followed up by bombing Berlin, then Hitler decided to try and demoralize the Brits by bombing cities. The Luftwaffe nearly had the RAF beat. The number of skilled pilots were low, ditto with aircraft numbers. A few more months of this and the RAF would have been history. Few people can argue this.

The blitz on London gave the RAF the break it needed to regroup and get stronger.

2. The alliance with Japan. They should have stayed out to avoid conflict with the Americans.

3. Operation Barbarosa. Why invade a country that is too big for your current army to handle?

4. Declaring war on the U.S.

5. Not making any long term design developments before the war. Hitler thought the war would be over in a few months so he would not commit funding to projects such as the Rocket program or long range bombers.

6. Invading North Africa.

7. Believing that the allies would land at Calais and not Normandy. Even when the Allies did land, Hitler refused to send his best units to Normandy becasue he thought it was a diversion for the "real" attack at Calais.

8. Not commiting enough money to the German Navy. The system was corrupt and the U-Boats did not get enough funding, most of it went to the surface fleet.

Those are the reasons that I could think of off the top of my head. Does anyone else have anything they would like to add?

Also IMO, the major reason WWI ended was because of the Influenza virus and also because the Germans could not keep up with production.

Imagine, our whole world would have been differnet   VERY different if a 19 year old boy by the name of Gavrillo Princip would not have assasinated the Arch Duke Ferdinand that fatefull day in Serbia.

Tyler

P.S. sorry for the LONG post. HTH<span id='postcolor'>

i forgot to say - THREAD HIJACKING DETECTED THREAD HIJACKING DETECTED

[Placebo 29]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Assault (CAN) @ Jan. 23 2002,21:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The Luftwaffe nearly had the RAF beat. The number of skilled pilots were low, ditto with aircraft numbers. A few more months of this and the RAF would have been history. Few people can argue this.<span id='postcolor'>

The RAF was only 6 weeks from extinction at the time Germany switched to bombing London

[Frizbee 0]

If America does leave, they should tear down and take with them every little piece of equipment and shelter that could be at all useful to a foreign force. Every piece of chicken wire and chainlink fence.. barb wire..

tables, chairs.. barracks, tents..

They should leave NOTHING but scorched earth.

then say "There, just as we found it"

[Pete 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Frizbee @ Jan. 24 2002,00:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If America does leave, they should tear down and take with them every little piece of equipment and shelter that could be at all useful to a foreign force. Every piece of chicken wire and chainlink fence.. barb wire..

tables, chairs.. barracks, tents..

They should leave NOTHING but scorched earth.

then say "There, just as we found it"<span id='postcolor'>

back to the topic i see

yup, if they leave and do that..im sure the saudis will not be dissapointed for you cleaning up after you

[Wobble 1]

america outa saudia ?

should be NATO out of saudi arabia.... not just the US.. its a NATO operation not a US only one..

fucking hipocrits.

[Assault (CAN) 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ex-RoNiN @ Jan. 23 2002,23:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i forgot to say - THREAD HIJACKING DETECTED THREAD HIJACKING DETECTED

<span id='postcolor'>

SPAMMING DETECTED!, SPAMMING DETECTED!

LOL,

If the Saudis don't want the Americans there, screw 'em. That place will continue to be a problem area in the future, I would like to see what those people will do when their oil runs low.

Though I might not be around when it happens, who knows.

Tyler

[Frizbee 0]

A few low yield-low radiation nuclear warheads, and we could make the entire middle east a tourist attraction..

"VISIT THE GREAT GLASS FIELDS - Once the Middle Eastern Deserts, now, thanks to nuclear might, its just a solid patch of GLASS"

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Brentk @ Jan. 23 2002,02:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">whats up with that?  why the sh.t do europeans call us yanks still?  i mean i don't mind but why not call us "Americans"      lol                     uhhh huhhhh<span id='postcolor'>

Probably coz your president referred to Pakistanis as "Pakis"

[christophercles 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (e.coli @ Jan. 22 2002,14:05)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">keep India and Pakistan from comming to blows and arbitrate peace in Isreal<span id='postcolor'>

I just find that a bit funny, since india and pakistan fire artillary at eachother every day.