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caz

america outa saudia ?

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wooops, Albreight said better : "the price is worth paying"

and not "Its the price to be paid" mad.gif

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Assault (CAN) @ Jan. 20 2002,22:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I agree with what you say about Kuwait. If they did not have oil I belive that America would not have given a damn about them being invaded<span id='postcolor'>

Uhhhh, a COALITION of countries invaded Kuwait not just the U.S. Afterall, its not only the Yanks who get most of their oil from the middle east, so does the rest of the world, including Europe and Britain. It was in everyones interest to get Saddam out of Kuwait, not just the U.S.'s

If I am correct, the Brits still have fighter jets patrolling the Iragi "no-fly zone" along with the U.S.

Tyler<span id='postcolor'>

Granted this was the case all countries wanted oil cheap right.

But hey if there was no oil there as I said in my original post the US sure would have not given a damn at all not saying that Europe would have either. But Europe is not a country nor a super power as the US has the title as the worlds only super power maybe they should act like one and look after the little guy in the world but no they screw the rest of the world over by there selfishness. The poor stay poor as US Corporation continue to exploit the 3rd world. European corporations do this to but nowhere as much as the US does.

In brief summary the US causes most of the problems in the world but they are too uncaring out of touch to know it.

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Do we go to europe and fight their wars for them(kosvo) ? yes. <span id='postcolor'>

You are not fighting a war for them you are peacekepping along with nearly all other members of NATO.

So do you have a clue about what is going on in the Balkans? NO!

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ex-RoNiN @ Jan. 21 2002,00:05)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">U$ = Evil Empire

'nuff said mad.gif

US = Good Empire if they take all their troops, go back home, and leave the rest of us the heck alone

Heck, we might even allow you back into the British Empire tounge.gif

Alternatively, I could stop drinking confused.gif<span id='postcolor'>

Last time we left you Euro's alone to play nicely with each other (after WWI) you guys had to go and start WWII!

Oh and Britian has an empire? I don't consider some measly little island in the Carribean sea to be much of an empire! smile.gif

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At least the Canadians have some perspective.

Ok, here is how it looks to the only socalist ever born in Texas.

1. Bush is an Idiot but he makes up for it by surrounding himself with people who are much smarter than he is.  I voted for him instead of Gore, who I agree with on many more topics than Bush because I trust Powell, Chaney and their spokesman Bush to strengthen the US military, keep China from invading Taiwan, keep India and Pakistan from comming to blows and arbitrate peace in Isreal.  It's worth putting off clean air a few more years to prevent WW3.

2. Blair is very sharp.  I am very impressed watching him on cspan (american cable channel)

3. There is no such thing as altruism.  Every action, even good actions are motivated in part by benefit to one's self.  Action in Kosovo and Somalia were intended to help people as well as provide stability and peace in general.  This is good for everyone.  People in Somalia refused to be helped, and the UN left.

4. The Gulf War was an international effort led by us because we have the largest military.  Everyone involved had intrests there.  The sanctions are a horrible political quagmire.  A failed attempt to keep Sadam from terrorizing his neighbors peacefully.

5. If Saudi wants us out we are obligated to leave.  We can not keep an unwelcome presence in an allied nation.  Kuwait does owe us a huge favor that I hope they would respect.  

6. Most Europeans are not communists.  There is nothing wrong with being a communist.  However, communism is an extreme form of government that does not work in most countries.

7. We helped more in ww1 with economic support rather than military.  The situation of who had a large powerful military to lend to it's allies defence was quite reversed at that time.  We were a back water port for people being kicked out of all the decent countries at that time.

8. WW2 could not have been won without the combined effort of UK, US, and USSR.  Don't you dare tell the 8th air force that the USA didn't contribute.  Thousands died in daylight bombing raids to cripple the third Reich.

9. We are Damned if we do and Damned if we don't.  You just can't please everyone and angry people are always the loudest.  Further more, geopolitics is very complicated and actions by any government are subject to being misunderstood by it's people and everyone else's as well.  There are plenty of old sayings about good intentions.

10. Europe is in a state of flux between many fragmented nations and one cohesive nation.  The transition is liable to take many, many years and is the natural progression of an ever shrinking world.  The US should be willing to provide military assistance to the EU with places like the Balkins when they start to heat up.

Lets all quit playing the blame game and try to get along and solve problems before something unbelieveably horrible happens.

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The US gives more money and more equiptment and more people to the UN than any other country has come close to..

so if you wish to talk the talk you need to first walk the walk.

COMMON BUDGET CONTRIBUTIONS BY NATO MEMBERS IN 2000 IN U.S. DOLLARS AND AS A PERCENTAGE OF THE WHOLE

Country/ Civil Budget /Military Budget/ Security & Investment Programme

Belgium 4 300 000 (2.7%) 25 500 000 (3.3%) 20 800 00(4.5%)

Canada 8 800 000 (5.6%) 56 400 000 (6.5%) 18 400 000 (3.9%)

Denmark 2 500 000 (2.5%) 15 100 000 (1.9%) 16 800 000 (3.6%)

France 25 900 000 (16.5%) 33 300 000 (6.1%) 18 400 000 (3.9%)

Germany 24 500 000 (15.6%) 160 800 000 (18.0%) 115 600 000 (24.8%)

Greece 600 000 (0.4%) 3 800 000 (0.4%) 4 800 000 (1.0%)

Iceland 100 000 (0.1%) 300 000 (0.1%) 0 (0.0%)

Italy 9 100 000 (5.8%) 53 500 000 (6.9%) 38 400 000 (8.2%)

Luxembourg 100 000 (0.1%) 700 000 (0.1%) 800 000 (0.2%)

Netherlands 4 300 000 (2.7%) 26 200 000 (3.3%) 23 600 000 (5.1%)

Norway 1 700 000 (1.1%) 10 500 000 (1.3%) 14 000 000 (3.0%)

Portugal 1 000 000 (0.6%) 5 600 000 (0.7%) 1 600 000 (0.3%)

Spain 5 500 000 (3.5%) 5 300 000 (1.0%) 2 400 000 (0.5%)

Turkey 2 500 000 (1.6%) 13 700 000 (1.9%) 6 000 000 (1.3%)

United Kingdom 29 600 000 (18.8%) 111 300 000 (20.4%) 52 800 000 (11.3%)

United States 36 523 000 (23.3%) 284 500 000 (28.0%) 132 000 000 (28.3%)

Us is 1/16 of the nato countries.. and proovides over 1.4th of all its money.

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Nato is not the only ones giving money to the UN you know. And it is not so strange that America can give so much, they are the largest nation IN Nato. And probably the largest and richest in UN.

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yes but if we were soo greedy and evil like most of these IDIOTS make us out to be we wuldent give so much money to INTERNATIONAL funds and communities..

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Don't you think America actually gains from giving that money? Its not like all that money is for nothing. It has a purpose other than paying UN bills.

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Don't you think America actually gains from giving that money?

It gains no more than any of the other countries who pay much less.. I know it doesent make a profit from it.. seeing as how the US doesent have any more say than any other nation as far as deciding who does and and whot goes where.... so lots of times.. MOST of the time the things it does, the money it spends has no possable possitive effect on it..

like for instance if Britian announced a War on the IRA (hypothetical) even though the IRA has pretty much NO effect on the US in any way.. the US would pay more for the operation than any other of the countries.. both in man power and money.

Look at ethopia. what does the US have to gain by sending million and millions of dollers there? nothing I can think of.. and yet its the biggest contributer by a wide margine..

the US benifits from being in the UN.. but as far as "you get what you pay for" the US gets a lot less than waht it pays for.

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A little off topic (well, on topic as it relates to US Military in Saudi Arabia).  I was watching 60 Minutes this weekend (it's a hour "news magazine" in North America) and they had this female A-10 pilot (she's Irish Catholic, by the way) on saying how it's unfair that women serving in S.A. are ordered to wear "host nation attire†- a traditional Muslim head-to-toe garment called an "abaya" when off the base, and cannot drive a vehicle and, if stopped and ask by S.A. police, must "pretend" to be married with a male US serviceman who she is with at all times.  So her beef is with the command and she's started a lawsuite (surprise, surprise) trying to get this order abolished (she doesn't want money from the suite).

I think she's just pissed because she's Catholic and doesn't want to dress like a Muslim.

Here's the link to the story 60 Minutes

-=Die Alive=-

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Religion causes most wars, good job I dont have one.

I wasnt even babtised smile.gif

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (madmike @ Jan. 22 2002,17:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Religion causes most wars, good job I dont have one.

I wasnt even babtised smile.gif<span id='postcolor'>

Religion does not casues wars people do. Religion is just used as a excuse for them.

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Thehamster @ Jan. 22 2002,20:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Religion causes most wars, good job I dont have one.

I wasnt even babtised smile.gif<span id='postcolor'>

Religion does not casues wars people do. Religion is just used as a excuse for them.<span id='postcolor'>

True but if people didnt believe so strongly in thier beliefs then it could be avioded

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Religion causes most wars, good job I dont have one.

I wasnt even babtised smile.gif<span id='postcolor'>

Religion does not casues wars people do. Religion is just used as a excuse for them.<span id='postcolor'>

True but if people didnt believe so strongly in thier beliefs then it could be avioded<span id='postcolor'>

If it was not religion it would be something else.

It is in human nature to kill eachother

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ex-RoNiN @ Jan. 20 2002,04:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What you fail to understand that it is in Europe's interests to have peace in Europe and they are not pulling their own weight. We've defended Europe for almost 90 years now. It's getting a bit old. In the Balkans, our European allies were very disturbed to realize how few troops they could quickly field, whereas we could quickly field large numbers quite easily. That's saying something especially since our numbers are way down from what they used to be.... If we are gonna do this peacekeeping bullshit around the world then the other countries demanding we do it better be ready to match troops with us. Otherwise they should have to do it themselves. We are not the world's parents, and people need to stop treating us like it. Especially since they bash us so often.<span id='postcolor'>

YOU defended Europe? The last 90 yrs?

Hahahahahaha, what a load of BOLLOX!!!

You probably believe that as well, dont you?

90 yrs, I assume you are referring to WW1+2, huh? Right, WW1. YOu didn't do jack shit. The front line was more or less frozen, but towards the end Germany was out of resources, and Britain fielded tanks. THIS is what changed the war. Germany still didn't lose, btw. Not ONE bullet was fired on German territory.

As for WW2, please tell me WHO came up with plans for d-day, WHO was fighting the Nazis behind enemy lines, WHO made them bleed in the cold russian winter, WHO managed to fight off the Luftwaffe.

Europe can take care of itself, thank you very much.<span id='postcolor'>

Europe can take care of itself? I guess by this you mean they can let nazi germany take over almost all of europe? hmmmm So where do the US, Russia, Canada, and all the other countries that helped out europe in WW II come into play?

Oh yeah,

D-day... Eisenhower... supreme allied commander...ring a bell?

Fighting nazis behind enemy lines... you mean the 101st on d-day?

Cold russian winter? would that be ASIA's most powerful country at the time, the USSR? hmmmmm

no offense to the uk or ex ronnin biggrin.gif

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Brentk @ Jan. 22 2002,21:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What you fail to understand that it is in Europe's interests to have peace in Europe and they are not pulling their own weight. We've defended Europe for almost 90 years now. It's getting a bit old. In the Balkans, our European allies were very disturbed to realize how few troops they could quickly field, whereas we could quickly field large numbers quite easily. That's saying something especially since our numbers are way down from what they used to be.... If we are gonna do this peacekeeping bullshit around the world then the other countries demanding we do it better be ready to match troops with us. Otherwise they should have to do it themselves. We are not the world's parents, and people need to stop treating us like it. Especially since they bash us so often.<span id='postcolor'>

WW1 was not won by the use of the tank, go read up on it, too much detail to explain in a post

and fighting did thake place in Germany, the russians mobilized much quicker than expected and began advancing into Germany in 1914

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What you fail to understand that it is in Europe's interests to have peace in Europe and they are not pulling their own weight. We've defended Europe for almost 90 years now. It's getting a bit old. In the Balkans, our European allies were very disturbed to realize how few troops they could quickly field, whereas we could quickly field large numbers quite easily. That's saying something especially since our numbers are way down from what they used to be.... If we are gonna do this peacekeeping bullshit around the world then the other countries demanding we do it better be ready to match troops with us. Otherwise they should have to do it themselves. We are not the world's parents, and people need to stop treating us like it. Especially since they bash us so often.<span id='postcolor'>

YOU defended Europe? The last 90 yrs?

Hahahahahaha, what a load of BOLLOX!!!

You probably believe that as well, dont you?

90 yrs, I assume you are referring to WW1+2, huh? Right, WW1. YOu didn't do jack shit. The front line was more or less frozen, but towards the end Germany was out of resources, and Britain fielded tanks. THIS is what changed the war. Germany still didn't lose, btw. Not ONE bullet was fired on German territory.

As for WW2, please tell me WHO came up with plans for d-day, WHO was fighting the Nazis behind enemy lines, WHO made them bleed in the cold russian winter, WHO managed to fight off the Luftwaffe.

Europe can take care of itself, thank you very much.<span id='postcolor'>

Europe can take care of itself?  I guess by this you mean they can let nazi germany take over almost all of europe?  hmmmm  So where do the US, Russia, Canada, and all the other countries that helped out europe in WW II come into play?

Oh yeah,

D-day... Eisenhower... supreme allied commander...ring a bell?

Fighting  nazis behind enemy lines... you mean the 101st on d-day?

Cold russian winter?  would that be ASIA's most powerful country at the time, the USSR?  hmmmmm

no offense to the uk or ex ronnin biggrin.gif

<span id='postcolor'>

Number 1 Russia is part of Europe.

Number 2. Russia did most of the fighting

Number 3. By the time the US joined the war Britain had long secured their safety and were starting to beat the Germans.

Number 4. Eisenhower was not vital to wining the war. Montgomery would have just done fine.

Number 5. D-day probably would have happened eventually just that it would have taken a little longer.

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D-day was planned by the British HQ.

The Russians were beaten VERY easily in WW-1.

And Russia IS part of Europe ffs.

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it took 3 years to beat the russians, i wouldnt call that easy, and they werent beaten they signed a truce

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Black Op @ Jan. 22 2002,23:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">it took 3 years to beat the russians, i wouldnt call that easy, and they werent beaten they signed a truce<span id='postcolor'>

in 3 years germany sent them from their eastern border back to the border between ukraine and russia!!!!!!!!!!

that is quite far...and the russian losses went into the millions....sounds pld to me

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the russians did push the germans back quite far in the 1915 counter offensive but eventually had to pull out because of the revoloution

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">the russians did push the germans back quite far in the 1915 counter offensive but eventually had to pull out because of the revoloution<span id='postcolor'>

What do I care, that was 80 odd yrs ago tounge.gif

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OK the russians left the war because of lenin and that whole story, i know russia is PART of europe, but it is MAINLY ASIA.  i have a point there.  anyway YOU WERE BY NO MEANS BEATING THE GERMANS in WW II prior to the US's entry.  Rommel was still heading the Afrika Korps, europe was all but german.  THE UK was being bombed by the luftwaffe.  Russia was being slaughtered.  

Final thoughs

The US could not have won the war with european allies.

The US would not have been in the war if not for european allies(sorta)

Germany could have taken over england if they hadn't been so stupid as to open a front against the vast nation of USSR(part of asia wink.gif )

The UK was partially supplied by the US

yeeeaaah

EDIT- No one won world war I, we just signed a peace treaty and treaty the central powers unfairly. stupid us

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