The Middle East part 2

[ozanzac 0]

A very humbling article indeed.

Almost all of my local media's attention concerning the cartoons,  has been of the 'flag burning mob' variety.

There has been very little effort to report the feelings of the 'muslim man on the streets' towards both the cartoons, and of the resulting attacks on embassys. All that has been focused on is the violence that's ensued. As a result, the grumblings of the local community, and of western society in general, is of the 'bloody muslims causing trouble for the sake of causing trouble again' opinion.

Freedom of speech, don't shoot the messenger, e.t.c., it maybe... But it just goes to show how much influence that the media has over swaying the general population.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Quote[/b] ] report the feelings of the 'muslim man on the streets'

Nice wording! Currently the muslim man on the street is demonstrating

[ozanzac 0]

Quote[/b] ] report the feelings of the 'muslim man on the streets'

Nice wording!  Currently the muslim man on the street is demonstrating

He he he!..... Yeah, I was going to put an asterisk next to that.

'muslim man on the streets*'

*Who isn’t holding a cigarette lighter in one hand and a flag on fire in the other!

But didn’t want it to be taken the wrong way, and then blown out of proportion! I like my embassys intact!

[theavonlady 2]

I thought I would provide a link to a site that provides some accurate information about Islam.  Hopefully this will help people better differentiate between Islamic and un-Islamic practices.  

http://muslim-canada.org/islam_is.html

Some background information on  Al-Haramain Foundation, who produced the article Tariq linked to at the Canadian Society of Muslim's website.

The Canadian Society of Muslim's director, Syed Mumtaz Ali, is very active in getting Sha'ria law instituted in Canada, as much as they can push it. To give you some ideas, read through Mumtaz Ali's very length article on Apostasy and Blasphemy in Islam.

See the article When Muslims Convert, mentioning Mumtaz Ali and the implication if he ever gets his way.

Oh, Canada!

[LennyD 0]

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]Not doing anything against it is a form of guilt as well!!!

So you would be the one standing in front of a rolling mob and telling them to stop ? Sorry dude, but you may think that this is what people in question should do, but that´s really cowardly.

I'm not talking about standing infront of a mob...but it would be possible for a lot of islamic Staates to do more about it. The islamic leader here (or even the "simpel man") could stand to the pressfreedom and the freedom of speech!!!

Of course the muslims have the right to feel offended... but this does not give the right to answer with violance. A peacefull protest would have given them an amount of simpathy...but this way is not helping them IMO.

Quote[/b] ]

We cannot be the ones who determine what is offending to them or not.

You are right, but you have to see that the reaction is not right at all. There are always lots of cartoons about germans in foreign newspapers...do i burn down embassies?

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]I have lots of muslim neighbours... why do these people go mad now and start calling for boycotts of the "dänisch bed-shop" and some newspapers here?

Have you talked to all of them ? It is as it is always. The ones who scream loudest have the smallest brains. That´s no muslim privilege only, we have the same nobrainers among us. They scream loud aswell these days...

You have no idea where i live... it is impossible for me to get my post in without talking to a muslim. The elemantary school round the corner hast 40% turkish and 15% german children attending it. If you speak to the older people living here, you always here the same thing: Over the years it is getting worse and worse. The number of foreigners here has always been the same...that isn't a problem at all (it is rather a cultural treasure), but the newer generations get less integrated in "our" society (parallel societys) and the violance is increasing. The settlement here was formaly for Thyssen-Krupp workers and their families. So naturally there has always been a large foreign comunity here. There have never been problems before, because the people living here accepted the german laws and wanted to be a part of the european-society. This has changed in the last few years...

I get on rather good with my direct muslim next-door neighbour. Discussions are rather difficult because they don't speak much german, but gernerally they trie to be nice....but in some cases i do get scared. The reactions of them now or after the london bombing have nothing to do with the peacefull next-door neighbour i've seen before. "scheiss däne...tot däne" What do you think i should reply??? What about a simpel "not good and wrong painting...but freedom in germany we live in...pacience we must have" That whould be the proper reaction.

So the center of the question is: Why don't they demonstrate peacefully like a sensible human would do?

No insult what so ever justifies violence in this manner!!!

Regarding the rat in the postbox: I've you don't want to belive it, i pop over to the bloke later and upload his copy of the police report for you.

We all know that this must have been an action of a kid or junger male whithout sence and enough brain to think about the situation....but it shows the tensions here near Dortmund in germany where i live. I've seen ethnic tensions on my tours in Kosovo and am afraid of what could happen if tensions get worse over the next years.

So don't take me for a brainless noob who just writes crap all day...

I will not accept the cutting of our freedom of speech just because some minority feels offended and reacts with violence.

I will not accept that i have to be carefull what i say in order to please what ever religion!

And i will certainly not accept burning down embassies as a political reaction!

I more and more understand israels reactions to terror

[Rikki Tikki Tavi 0]

Where do the Danish/German governments stand on this? Do they support the newspapers, or are they taking a neutral stance?

[xawery 0]

I more and more understand israels reactions to terror

Let's not forget that Palestinian violence is not a reaction to something as trivial as cartoons...

[theavonlady 2]

I more and more understand israels reactions to terror

Let's not forget that Palestinian violence is not a reaction to something as trivial as cartoons...

That's right.

It's the presence of sons (and daughters, I suppose ) of monkeys and pigs in Dar al Islam.

This calls for a banana!

[LennyD 0]

Where do the Danish/German governments stand on this? Do they support the newspapers, or are they taking a neutral stance?

German Kanzler(w) Merkel said in a tv-interwiev yesterday, that she does understand that muslims aren't happy with those cartoons, but in a democratic staate they are free to complain and take it to court. Violance is something she does not tollerate. She also said that the pressfreedom is something no government or religion should interfear in...

So basicly supporting the newspaper.

Quote[/b] ]

I more and more understand israels reactions to terror

Let's not forget that Palestinian violence is not a reaction to something as trivial as cartoons...

Jep, but the only answer to terror is displayed by israel...you can't talk with terrorists...so why do we still try?

EDIT: The iranian paper "Hamschahri" has called for a cartoon competetion about the holocaust. So let us prepare to burn down some embassies, ey??

[shadow 6]

Two Norwegian and two Finnish soldiers were lightly injured at an ISAF-base in Maymana when 200-300 Muslims breached the gate. The base holds roughly 35 Norwegians, 16 Finns and 5 Swedes. According to the Norwegian press, VG.no, two Dutch F-16s flew "show of force" firing warning-shots.

Update: The muslims haven occupied a neighbouring building and are shooting and throwing grenades into the camp. So far 5 Norwegians and 2 Finns wounded, 2 muslims killed.

2 Americans Hogs (A-10) are on their way and a Herc is on standby ready to evacuate everyone.

Article at VG.no (norwegian)

[LennyD 0]

Two Norwegian and two Finnish soldiers were lightly injured at an ISAF-base in Maymana when 200-300 Muslims breached the gate. The base holds roughly 35 Norwegians, 16 Finns and 5 Swedes. According to the Norwegian press, VG.no, two Dutch F-16s flew "show of force" firing warning-shots.

Update: The muslims haven occupied a neighbouring building and are shooting and throwing grenades into the camp. So far 5 Norwegians wounded, 1 muslim killed.

2 Americans Hogs (A-10) are on their way and a Herc is on standby ready to evacuate everyone.

Article at VG.no (norwegian)

Engl. articel -> on reuters.com

http://today.reuters.com/news....TAN.xml

This one is interesting, too. Listen to what the guy tells us about how to "apologise" for the cartoons.

*removed*

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]This one is interesting, too. Listen to what the guy tells us about how to "apologise" for the cartoons.

Forum rules anyone ?

[LennyD 0]

Quote[/b] ]This one is interesting, too. Listen to what the guy tells us about how to "apologise" for the cartoons.

Forum rules anyone ?

? No pictures violating forum rules. A newsreport by reuters...where is the problem? Can't find one...

If i'm wrong a moderater should remove the link and accept my apology..

EDIT: ooops...didn't see the demonstrant on the floor...ok, removed

[xawery 0]

Jep, but the only answer to terror is displayed by israel...you can't talk with terrorists...so why do we still try?

Well, if perpetuating violence is the only answer to terrorism, then we might as well shrug and push the red button. There is no negotiating with terrorists, but blowing them up is only counterproductive. Do you honestly think that killing one or two supposed terrorists in a busy urban area using rockets, killing or wounding multiple civilians in the process, is actually going to stop the terrorist actions? If anything, such 'retaliatory actions' only increase the number of people willing to perform suicidal attacks.

The only way to stop terrorism is from the bottom up, by improving the social standards and living conditions of those who could potentially become terrorists. If the pool of potential recruits dries up, the terrorist organisations will slowly wither. But hey, that approach is hardly as appealing or flashy as bulldozing houses or bombarding cars in busy streets.

One other thing amazes me. You say "you can't talk to terrorists, so why do we still try". As far as I know, no western country "talks" or negotiates with terrorist organisations. So what do you mean then? Perhaps you are referring to all Muslims as terrorists? I certainly hope you aren't.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]No pictures violating forum rules. A newsreport by reuters...where is the problem? Can't find one..

The problem is that the media report shows a killed person with a lot of blood around. It shouldn´t be new to you that such is strictly forbidden here as the rules clearly state:

Quote[/b] ]§5)No posting of explicit images

No posting of pictures containing porn, real killing, mutilations, wounds, carnage, and other disgusting/explicit images. This also includes links to pages that contain such images. There have been a number of incidents where people have linked to news sites which unbeknownst to them contains obscene images a few mouse clicks away, while we can't expect people to check every link on a site it is strongly suggested that whenever making a post about a news item the post is structured in a way that provides the information without risk of breaching the rules. A good example of how to do this can be seen below. If you're ever unsure as to whether or not a link should be posted on the forum feel free to PM a moderator for guidance.

[LennyD 0]

Quote[/b] ]No pictures violating forum rules. A newsreport by reuters...where is the problem? Can't find one..

The problem is that the media report shows a killed person with a lot of blood around. It shouldn´t be new to you that such is strictly forbidden here as the rules clearly state:

Quote[/b] ]§5)No posting of explicit images

No posting of pictures containing porn, real killing, mutilations, wounds, carnage, and other disgusting/explicit images. This also includes links to pages that contain such images. There have been a number of incidents where people have linked to news sites which unbeknownst to them contains obscene images a few mouse clicks away, while we can't expect people to check every link on a site it is strongly suggested that whenever making a post about a news item the post is structured in a way that provides the information without risk of breaching the rules. A good example of how to do this can be seen below. If you're ever unsure as to whether or not a link should be posted on the forum feel free to PM a moderator for guidance.

Havn't seen the 1 sec. of the bloke on the floor while watching the vid the first time, removed the link as you can see and read above.

The lot of blood you mean might be the rain on the steet, ey...anyway it's gone. Not subject of the discussion here anyway...

[Blake 0]

It's great to hear that our premier rushed to Kuwait rescue our economic relations before we're mistaken to Danish!

Maybe to Iran next, after all there's a gap in the imports sector now which some of our dairy industries could exploit.

Whatever happened to 'Nordisk samarbete'? Or has there ever been one after Kalmar Union?

Quote[/b] ]"Finland and Kuwait have strong economic ties. Helsinki expects this coming year to see a further expansion of bilateral trade and investment. "I think that 2006 will be much better than the last two years. Moreover, we are looking into improved level of the business between our two countries," said Vanhanen. Finland has been cultivating economic ties with Kuwait for some time. Last year, the premier headed a delegation of 50 business leaders to Kuwait to discuss economic ties between the two countries."

http://www.kuwaittimes.net/Navarie....8549974

[billybob2002 0]

It seems the first major American newspaper to print the caricature of Muhammad on Sunday....

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/07/national/07philly.html

Quote[/b] ]

Protesters at Philadelphia Paper Ask It to Apologize for Cartoon

By JULIE BOSMAN

Published: February 7, 2006

The Philadelphia Inquirer became the first major American newspaper to publish any of the caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad on Saturday, prompting a small protest outside the newspaper's offices yesterday morning.

Amanda Bennett, the editor of The Inquirer, said the decision to publish one cartoon came after several days of internal deliberation. The editors drew on the newspaper's history of publishing stark images that some readers find offensive, she said, including a grisly photo of civilian contractors who were burned to death in Falluja, Iraq, in March 2004.

When it became clear that the caricatures were becoming "more, not less, newsworthy," Ms. Bennett said, the editors decided to publish the cartoon on Saturday so that readers would be better informed about the controversy.

"There's been a whole history of newspapers publishing things that people would find controversial and offensive," Ms. Bennett said. "My view is that we need to publish it for a good news reason, we need to publish in context and we need to explain to readers why we did it."

One small New York daily, The New York Sun, published two of the cartoons last Thursday. The paper's editor, Seth Lipsky, hung up on a reporter on Monday when contacted for comment. The cartoons have been widely circulated on the Internet.

.............

We know the reason why the State Department issued that statement now because the cartoon was published in a American newspaper last Thursday.  

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Blake, do you think this will have an impact at all? This storm of rage in the middle East is mostly a farce, instrumentalised by the extrememists to share haterage. I mean even Nestlé (SWISS) is being boycotted. They will boycott any western product they find in the shelves and call it "danish".

The worst and most embarassing step is to say: "wait, we are not danish, we are finnish". Thats like talking to an SS officer and saying "wait, I am not a jew, so can I leave my shop open?". You try to get out of the way and by doing that you make space for criminal acts, you basically become a tiny well oiled wheel inside this system!

So even if these finnish companies were indeed danish, then would they be guilty of anything? Are all danish guilty? Thats a rethorical question and I know that you know the answer. Of course I understand that companies need to protect their markets of growth and relevance. So from a political point of view it is justifiable, however ideologically highly embarassing. Thats realy apeasment!

[Blake 0]

Quote[/b] ]The worst and most embarassing step is to say: "wait, we are not danish, we are finnish". Thats like talking to an SS officer and saying "wait, I am not a jew, so can I leave my shop open?". You try to get out of the way and by doing that you create enough space for criminal acts, you basically become part of the system!

I tried to convey some sort of irony there about the cowardly and exploiting way our government has acted in this crisis, maybe I failed I'm a bit shamed and wonder what the Danish now think about Finnsh and Swedes on this so-called Nordic co-operation that has been drummed on for dedcads.

I agree with you 100% on this.

[eisa01 0]

Whatever happened to 'Nordisk samarbete'? Or has there ever been one after Kalmar Union?

Judging by what I've read in the papers the last few days, Finland is no longer included in "Norden", there were going to be an united Nordic response to the embassy burnings, from Denmark, Sweden and Norway..

[Blake 0]

'Sionist Conspiracy' is now being blamed for the Cartoon incident. According ot Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, the supreme cleric of Iran, the cartoons were published because 'Hamas won the last month's elections'. 'Sionists wished to create conflict between Christians and Muslims'.

Nothing new there probably...

But funny thing is that I thought the cartoons appeared last september long before Palestinian elections. :P

Link (in Finnish):

http://www.mtv3.fi/uutiset....1

Iran gets backing and distraction for it's nuclear program, Syria gets some smokescreen over Hariri murder,

Hamas gets partial vindication for it's stance on maintaining hard line, Libanon gets demonstarations which probably benefit the pro-Syrian factions. Leadership of these countries/factions met in Damascus in January....Somebody could put up more juicier conspiracies than those Sionist-ones...

[denoir 0]

It's great to hear that our premier rushed to Kuwait rescue our economic relations before we're mistaken to Danish!

Maybe to Iran next, after all there's a gap in the imports sector now which some of our dairy industries could exploit.

Whatever happened to 'Nordisk samarbete'? Or has there ever been one after Kalmar Union?

Indeed, here in Sweden the first thing our Foreign Ministry tried to do was to explain that Sweden is not Denmark. The media was extremely cautious and unlike other European media did not offer their support to their Danish colleagues. But then they torched the Swedish Embassy which at least got the media going. So now they are calling out for a common European front supporting Denmark. That is at least something, although worth noting is that it is just words -- no Swedish media has published the cartoons.

As usual the politicians order last ones to see the writing on the wall, but I'm sure they will get there sooner or later -- as soon as they realize that there are some cheap populist points to collect. It's quite a sad culture of politics. I'm not saying this politicians should go out of their way to create controversy, but this kind of absence of any backbone is disgusting. They must be perfectly aware that them distancing themselves from Denmark is just rubbish. It is just a coincidence that it was Denmark. It could have been any European country.

And of course, it is especially pathetic given how much they usually like to brag about Nordic solidarity and corporation.

[theavonlady 2]

Indeed.

"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last." - Sir Winston Churchill

[jackson42 0]

'Sionist Conspiracy' is now being blamed for the Cartoon incident. According ot Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, the supreme cleric of Iran, the cartoons were published because 'Hamas won the last month's elections'. 'Sionists wished to create conflict between Christians and Muslims'.

Finally some one comes up with that phrase!

After the previous CIA-Jews-Conspiracyâ„¢ Superhits for example Holocaust, 911, London Bombings now this one featuring Evil-Danish-Cartoonistsâ„¢!

Coming up: CIA-Jews-Conspiracyâ„¢ (feat. Evil-Danish-Cartoonistsâ„¢ and other scapegoats we make up as we go along) in:

- The Hadj-Stampede 2006, 2005, etc.

- Afghanistan Earthquake

- Bombings at Torino and during Soccer Wold Cup

- Guy-falls-off-danish-embassy (a short film)

- Stealing all important arab inventions since Al Geber

- Missing socks

I can hardly wait