The Middle East part 2

[Garcia 0]

thats because we don't have carriers  

Seriously, are you actually always missing the point, or are you just kidding? And if you are always missing the point, is it coming natural or are you trying to miss the point? Because this is getting rather ridiculous.

Quote[/b] ]When was the last time an IDF pilot did something as simple as a carrier landing?

When he said that, he said it to show how few tasks your pilots have to deal with that is difficult, compared to i.e UK or US pilots. Why do you think he added that? Because he thought you had carriers which your pilots landed on all the time? He added it because, since your country doesn't have carriers (well, I wouldn't know, but I doubt they have many anyway) and therefor doesn't land on carriers much. Therefor these so called worlds best pilots don't know how to land on carriers, unless other pilots, from i.e UK or USA.

[scary 0]

and who are you scary ? saying you are military man but not telling in which country . .I wonder why is that ?

Because this is the 'Middle East' thread, not the 'Life and Times of scary' thread.

Quote[/b] ]strange, I don't remmember any airofrce dealing with 3 countries at once {exepct WWII}.

Three countries armed with what? The best 'air defense' they've got are RPGs which aren't going to do much to a fast jet. It would be a step up a few levels if they built themselves some mangonels and onagers to put a bit of rock/flak in the sky.

Quote[/b] ]that was allready cleared that hte missle missed his target, it was not the pilot's fault.

It never is.

Quote[/b] ]Again, saying sentences like "you should put higher standartts" ..

If they employed them it wouldn't need to be stated.

Quote[/b] ]Just tell me in what army you serve ? US ? they kill civilians in iraq to.

Don't call me Army, I'm thinking man's infantry if you don't mind. But I'm sure some kind and switched on soul will point out the obvious to you if you are that interested.

Quote[/b] ]thats because we don't have carriers

That might just be the point. I'm sure IDF pilots aren't bad at what they do, but what they do is extremely limited.

on the basis of your theory, that means Iraq in 1991 must have had the best pilots in the world, as they were fighting against a coalition of what, 6/7 countries?

It was 26 actually. Bloody good pilots them Iraqis

[Jezz 0]

i came across this on militaryphotos.net

Quote[/b] ]Extremist group: We kidnapped 2 Palestinians

‘Gilad Shalhevet Brigades’ organization claims it kidnapped two Palestinians, residents of the Jerusalem area. Group says hostages will be released only in exchange for Israeli soldiers abducted in Gaza, Lebanon

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3275195,00.html

it could be bull as i havent seen anything yet on other sites(cnn/bbc ect) and im not particuluray sure exactly how trustworthy that site is as its the first ive seen it

[Messiah 2]

It was 26 actually. Bloody good pilots them Iraqis

lol... my estimate was a fair whack out

[lilwillie 47]

Ok, we're now three people who support Israel in this thread who various people want banned - Me, The Avon Lady, and Manhunter.

Oh, there are others who support Israel. I just enjoy reading someone who has exlained the position of Israel better then I could

[mp_phonix 0]

What do you thing about the Israeli actions in Lebanon ?

[Badgerboy 0]

What do you thing about the Israeli actions in Lebanon ?

Slighty over the top.... Why are they hitting civilian infrastructure, such as the airport? Many foreign nationals are now stranded in a country that is getting bombed back to the stone ages.

[Garcia 0]

What do you thing about the Israeli actions in Lebanon ?

Slighty over the top.... Why are they hitting civilian infrastructure, such as the airport? Many foreign nationals are now stranded in a country that is getting bombed back to the stone ages.

Because they neeeeeever fall as low as terrorists and target civilians...they're just misfireing...

[h - 169]

I swear if Israeli actions are the next excuse to pump up the gas prices I will invade the country myself...

[mp_phonix 0]

Not funny garcia.

WE bombed the airport because they use it to transport weapons into the country, also the main roads, bridges & weapon caches . .

HateR_Kint, LoL

[deanosbeano 0]

Quote[/b] ]What do you thing about the Israeli actions in Lebanon ?

I think israel needed to do something bout the kidnappings but this is way ot imo. the repercussions of this will be felt around the world ,unfortunatly.sad and honest truth. pitty it came to this , but to be honest, i think its all part of a bigger master plan.

[j w 0]

Not funny garcia.

WE bombed the airport because they use it to transport weapons into the country, also the main roads, bridges & weapon caches . .

Yeah, but sending in fighters to bomb the 'power-plant' (well, that's nuclear AFAIK, this was electrical, or some such (IIRC)), what was that for?

And bombing the airforce is really low, since it effected alot of civilians, just trying to get home.

And, yeah, Garcia, not funny. True.

[Garcia 0]

Not funny garcia.

WE bombed the airport because they use it to transport weapons into the country, also the main roads, bridges & weapon caches . .

1: I wasn't really trying to be funny.

2: I wasn't either aiming only at the airport. Israel may not target civilians directly, but they surely don't seem to try very hard not to hit civilians. Apperently they have killed 50 lebanese civilians and 4 brasilian civilians.

[booradley60 0]

I'm wondering if President Bush will put pressure on Israel to accept a cease-fire (at the very least), and if so, would it alter any perspectives of America in the Arab world.

[Garcia 0]

At least the lebanese president claims Bush have promised to push Israel. And I don't really think it will have much influence on the view of America in the Arab world. If USA continued to do such things, it would probably in the long run change the arabs meaning of USA to the better, but this alone won't change much. Besides, USA still ruins UNs chances of taking actions because they veto everything, which kind of neutrilize the possible effect of Bush giving a bit support to Lebanon.

[Jinef 2]

I think the USA doesn't really mind the status quo as it is. Keep a very high profile conflict in the middle east attracting lots of people who want to be Martyrs and keep them away from Mainland USA and Iraq. Oh shit, too convenient and simple too be true...

[Bernadotte 0]

WE bombed the airport because they use it to transport weapons into the country...

Don't they have military airstrips for that?  How many of those have you destroyed?

Let's face it, Lebanon has every right to move what ever cargo it wishes through any airport it pleases.  Israel's attack on their civilian runway has nothing to do with halting weapons traffic and everything to do with collective punishment.  They simply claim that bombing runways is to block weapons shipments for the sake of all those Israel-apologists out there who pretend that helicopters don't exist.

[booradley60 0]

I think the USA doesn't really mind the status quo as it is. Keep a very high profile conflict in the middle east attracting lots of people who want to be Martyrs and keep them away from Mainland USA and Iraq. Oh shit, too convenient and simple too be true...

I doubt America wants this to continue just as a distraction to terrorists, especially when weighed against the hit the stock market has taken due to a crisis-spurred jump in oil prices.  Without a major attack on US soil in 5 years, money has superceded security again.

EDIT: I just noticed a major flaw in that. I was thinking too much about what the American PEOPLE think and not what the government and big oil thinks. This conflict is great for oil companies as it is a great reason to start raising those prices.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

WE bombed the airport because they use it to transport weapons into the country...

Don't they have military airstrips for that?  How many of those have you destroyed?

Let's face it, Lebanon has every right to move what ever cargo it wishes through any airport it pleases.  Israel's attack on their civilian runway has nothing to do with halting weapons traffic and everything to do with collective punishment.  They simply claim that bombing runways is to block weapons shipments for the sake of all those Israel-apologists out there who pretend that helicopters don't exist.

My apologies for the following statement but Lebanon now has every right to return fire and potentially kill Israelis and they will try hard.

The situation is escalating, wow, who could have assumed that? verdammte Dickschädel! It is so damn sad to see diplomacy being practiced in such an amatuerish way (by both sides). I wonder if the entire middle East would run around like brainless chicken if you would take their weapons... "shit, we are lost... what do we do now? what is life all about?"

so where were we?`Ah yes, I remember ... "but they started it"  the endless loop of nonesense argumentation. Actually you could delete this entire thread cause page 1 to page 100 is it just a repetition of mutual accusals! Welcome to the heavily armed kindergarden of the middle East.

Whats the record so far... lets see, several dozen (if not more) killed civillians mainly composed of children! And what about the bad guys? well they blew up their empty villas! oh, and then of course the great amount of infrastructural targets.. big deal for the Hissbollah, as if they would depend  on it! Every chinese black market dealer in Berlin would be able to smuggle great amounts without airports and bridges to his disposition!  

So the Mossad realy seems to be a top notch organisation, noone can beat their intel. Their main source of strategic information is probably the lebanses yellow pages!

The only people winning right now are the radical gorillas on both sides, the internet is full of their loud cheerings. The only people loosing right now are the ones that could solve the situation: the moderate adults and the innocent children!

To sum it all up: I feel lost, who are the "bad guys" again?

[ozanzac 0]

mp_phonix, I'm glad someone asked that question, because it was one I was intent on asking myself...

From my point of view, there is one word to sum it up.

Disappointing.

Israel's actions are totally irrational. The country should be ashamed of it's leaders for failing to find another way of dealing with the situation. Three soldiers kidnapped.... Three measly soldiers and Israel has its finger on the trigger, blasting away at anyone it thinks is involved.

It's irresponsible, because it's simply plunging the region into further uncertainty. I often ask myself, after incidents like this, whether or not Israel actually wants to get along with its neighbours, or would it rather obliterate them, and just looking for an excuse to do so.

These actions are short-sighted, and deeply concerning.... Israel should be speaking softly.... we already know it carries a big stick, but, it can't speak softly at all.

What justifies these actions, and is it worth it?

Albert, you almost took the words right out of my mouth, and I totally agree. It’s time for Israel to grow up, and stop throwing its weight around like a schoolyard bully… Eventually, you’ll realise it doesn’t win you friends; it only creates more enemies, and isolates you as a nation, more...

 

[Garcia 0]

Problem is that the bully is one of the strongest kids in the yard. And the bully also got the strongest kid in the yard backing him up, therefor none of the other kids dare take action when the bully bullies, they just dare to say they disagree with the bullies actions, and that's it.

If just all the other kids would dare to rise and take action against the bully and his buddy, then there might have been a chance for a resoultion, but when all they dare to do is say "I object", and then they go back hiding, how can there be any resolution? We all know bullies don't come up with a good resolution to a disagreement on their own. Bullies just hit since they got no brain to resolve it with talking.

[Commando84 0]

yeah israeli attack is like wtf? We are angry we just bomb anything it seems like.. have the israelis ever heard of intel, diplomacy, special forces? anything that could help them get back the soldiers? bombing out buildings and bridges won't get the soldiers back i think.

[billybob2002 0]

mp_phonix, I'm glad someone asked that question, because it was one I was intent on asking myself...

From my point of view, there is one word to sum it up.

Disappointing.

Israel's actions are totally irrational. The country should be ashamed of it's leaders for failing to find another way of dealing with the situation. Three soldiers kidnapped.... Three measly soldiers and Israel has its finger on the trigger, blasting away at anyone it thinks is involved.

It's irresponsible, because it's simply plunging the region into further uncertainty. I often ask myself, after incidents like this, whether or not Israel actually wants to get along with its neighbours, or would it rather obliterate them, and just looking for an excuse to do so.

These actions are short-sighted, and deeply concerning.... Israel should be speaking softly.... we already know it carries a big stick, but, it can't speak softly at all.

What justifies these actions, and is it worth it?

Albert, you almost took the words right out of my mouth, and I totally agree. It’s time for Israel to grow up, and stop throwing its weight around like a schoolyard bully… Eventually, you’ll realise it doesn’t win you friends; it only creates more enemies, and isolates you as a nation, more...

 

Oh, it is Israel fault this time and it is the poor ole' Arabs (I'm using this in general) that haven't done anything. Parts of Lebanon's infrastructure is being attacked because of Hezbollah's actions a few days ago that left eight Israeli soldiers dead and two others captured by them. You expect Israel just sit on its ass and just look while Hezbollah has free reign in Lebanon while two of its soldiers were captured by them because the Lebanese government is afraid to act?

Cry me a river with the Israel is acting like a bully crap in this instance.

[denoir 0]

This really screws Lebanon in the long term. They were just getting over the stigma of the civil war and tourists were beginning to come to the country again.. This will set them back at least a decade. Now the whole bunch of tourists trapped in de facto a war zone won't be telling very nice stories of their vacation...

And Israel isn't exactly making any friends this way either.

The Mid East just doesn't seem to catch a break, does it? Last year, for a brief time it looked like something good was happening - Syria was pulling out of Lebanon, the elections in Iraq gave a glimpse of hope... But of course that wasn't to be and the region is as now in the usual deep shit with the real possibility of things getting even worse.  

Quote[/b] ]You expect Israel just sit on its ass and just look while Hezbollah has free reign in Lebanon while two of its soldiers were captured by them because the Lebanese government is afraid to act?

Well, yes. Lebanon is a sovereign country and Israel has to deal with it that way. And while I know this may sound strange to a Bush follower but there tends to be an international consensus on that you can't just go invading countries whose governments don't do what you want. While Lebanon's inability to control Hezbollah is regrettable, it is hardly a cause for invasion. So far eight Israeli soldiers have been killed 63 Lebanese civilians, four Brazilians, four Germans and one Argentinian. This over two soldiers.

By the way, by your logic, shouldn't perhaps Brazil and Germany (or the EU) invade Israel? Or should they just sit on their asses waiting for Israel to kill more of their citizens?

[billybob2002 0]

This really screws Lebanon in the long term. They were just getting over the stigma of the civil war and tourists were beginning to come to the country again.. This will set them back at least a decade. Now the whole bunch of tourists trapped in de facto a war zone won't be telling very nice stories of their vacation...

And Israel isn't exactly making any friends this way either.

The Mid East just doesn't seem to catch a break, does it? Last year, for a brief time it looked like something good was happening - Syria was pulling out of Lebanon, the elections in Iraq gave a glimpse of hope... But of course that wasn't to be and the region is as now in the usual deep shit with the real possibility of things getting even worse.  

Quote[/b] ]You expect Israel just sit on its ass and just look while Hezbollah has free reign in Lebanon while two of its soldiers were captured by them because the Lebanese government is afraid to act?

Well, yes. Lebanon is a sovereign country and Israel has to deal with it that way. And while I know this may sound strange to a Bush follower but there tends to be an international consensus on that you can't just go invading countries whose governments don't do what you want. While Lebanon's inability to control Hezbollah is regrettable, it is hardly a cause for invasion. So far eight Israeli soldiers have been killed 63 Lebanese civilians, four Brazilians, four Germans and one Argentinian. This over two soldiers.

By the way, by your logic, shouldn't perhaps Brazil and Germany (or the EU) invade Israel? Or should they just sit on their asses waiting for Israel to kill more of their citizens?  

No, Brazil or Germany doesn't have the right because the goal of those airstrikes wasn't meant to kill them or any civilians for that matter.

I guess the Taliban should be reinstalled because the United States and others invaded the sovereign country of Afghanistan and removed the Taliban due to them sheltering Al-Qaeda. There is no consensus with these types of incidents.

Blah, It wouldn't surprise me that Iran was behind the abductions to force focus away on the coming deadline with them on nuclear energy.