The Middle East part 2

[Warin 0]

Please continue the Mid East discussion here.

[MLF 0]

erm what was the last discussion in the thread :/

[Jamesia 0]

its just below. Dont spam.

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin....st=3420

[Bernadotte 0]

New thread?

Cool.

Allow me to introduce myselft:

Quote[/b] ]Count Bernadotte was a Swedish diplomat, fluent in six languages, who gained international recognition through his work as head of the Swedish Red Cross during World War II.  On May 20, 1948 Bernadotte was appointed mediator of the UN General Assembly, and was faced with the volatile situation in the Middle East.  The long-standing conflict between Arabs and Jews in Palestine escalated after the adoption of the UN partition resolution on November 29, 1947.

During the summer of 1948, Count Bernadotte was sent by the United Nations to Palestine to try to negotiate a settlement.  He came to the conclusion that the UN partition plan was an "unfortunate" resolution and proposed his own plan.

Bernadotte's plan called for the Jewish State to relinquish the Negev and Jerusalem to Transjordan and to receive the western Galilee.  Bernadotte advocated a total demilitarization of Jerusalem and blamed the Jewish forces for "aggressive" behavior in the city.

And what do you suppose became of that Swede for expressing such opinions?

Quote[/b] ]LEHI was a Jewish extremist group engaging in a campaign of "personal terror" against the British in Palestine.  For LEHI, Count Bernadotte, as UN mediator for Palestine, came to symbolize the foreign oppression of the Jewish claim to the Land of Israel.  The organization considered his plan to be a threat to its goal of an independent Israel with expanded territory on both sides of the Jordan River.

Bernadotte was assassinated by a LEHI team in Jerusalem on September 17, 1948. Mainstream Jewish leaders were horrified by the assassination.  The government outlawed the organization's branch in Jerusalem.  Two of the leaders of LEHI, Natan Yellin-Mor and Mattityahu Shmuelevitz, were sentenced to long jail terms by a military court, but were later released in a general amnesty.

Yitzhak Shamir, another of the top LEHI leaders, reputedly played a role in planning the assassination; however, he was never tried and went on to become Prime Minister of Israel.

[Crazysheep 1]

The middle east peace process is not going to work, I reckon. The objectives of the Iraq war were a disaster, and it doesn't look like Israel is going to remove its settlements.

[Harnu 0]

The middle east peace process is not going to work, I reckon. The objectives of the Iraq war were a disaster, and it doesn't look like Israel is going to remove its settlements.

Between Isreal and Palestine, it's probably not going to work, not for a while anyway. There too many nuts between the two of that want to blow them selves up, instead of just settling.

[SpeedyDonkey 0]

Imo as long as hamas is present, there ain't gonna be what a normal person would call peace.

[FSPilot 0]

I heard an interesting theory the other day.

The only reason hamas is so popular is because the Palestinian population wants their land back. They see hamas as the only way to achieve that goal. So all Israel has to do is give back the land they captured, and stop striking hamas terrorists. This will make the Palestinian population less angry hopefully to the point where they'll stop joining hamas.

It won't get rid of hamas, but it will get rid of hamas' support.

Heard it on another forum, makes sense to me.

[Harnu 0]

I heard an interesting theory the other day.

The only reason hamas is so popular is because the Palestinian population wants their land back.  They see hamas as the only way to achieve that goal.  So all Israel has to do is give back the land they captured, and stop striking hamas terrorists.  This will make the Palestinian population less angry hopefully to the point where they'll stop joining hamas.

It won't get rid of hamas, but it will get rid of hamas' support.

Heard it on another forum, makes sense to me.

But if you were Isreal, would you want to appease to that? It seems to me like that would be a major kick in the balls.

Hamas are fighting because they wouldn't back down either, because they want their land back.

It's a never ending cycle. Until one either backs down, or takes complete control of the other, this will still be going on. But then that causes new problems if they take one another over.

And there is little hope for them to all follow the peace plan. Not with people screwing it up.

[Bernadotte 0]

I heard an interesting theory the other day.

The only reason hamas is so popular is because the Palestinian population wants their land back.  They see hamas as the only way to achieve that goal.  So all Israel has to do is give back the land they captured, and stop striking hamas terrorists.  This will make the Palestinian population less angry hopefully to the point where they'll stop joining hamas.

It won't get rid of hamas, but it will get rid of hamas' support.

Heard it on another forum, makes sense to me.

Yes, it makes a lot of sense.

Unfortunately, the biggest obstacle to giving the land back is that ~6% of Israel's population (and voters!) have built homes on that land since it was captured in 1967.

I've just read two interesting statistics.

For every Hamas militant that Israel assassinates, 3 more join.

For every Hamas militant that Israel assassinates, 3 innocent bystanders are killed.

By the way, do you know how Hamas got started?

They were founded by a group that couldn't stand PLO corruption.  They made sure that money Arafat had been stealing from his people got spent on health care and education for the Palestinians in the refugee camps - mostly in Lebanon before 1980.  I believe the US began considering Hamas as a terrorist organisation only a few years ago.

[Harnu 0]

Quote[/b] ]I've just read two interesting statistics.

For every Hamas militant that Israel assassinates, 3 more join.

For every Hamas militant that Israel assassinates, 3 innocent bystanders are killed.

Maybe then it will be exponential, and in one incredible feat they will all stand on the boarder and blow themselves up at the same time. Sure saving some time in the Middle East

[USSoldier11B 0]

I agree that as long as the radicals are around, nothing will get solved. However, we must ask ourselves if this scenario is self-pepetuating. Will these people eventually kill each other off, or will the continue to breed hatred toward one another until the end of mankind? I don't think these people can coexist peacefully, someone is going to have to leave.

[Sham Pain 0]

I don't think these people can coexist peacefully, someone is going to have to leave.

Who?  ...The ones that showed up over 1000 years ago or the ones that showed up less than 100 years ago (um... after being away for 2000 years)?

[edc 0]

Well, IMO, for there to even be a remote change at peace in Israel/Palestine, Arafat has to go, either by leaving peacefully, or by dieing. Even with the new Palestinian PM, Arafat, has a large influence on events.

[FSPilot 0]

Harnu

Quote[/b] ]But if you were Isreal, would you want to appease to that? It seems to me like that would be a major kick in the balls.

Hamas are fighting because they wouldn't back down either, because they want their land back.

It's a never ending cycle. Until one either backs down, or takes complete control of the other, this will still be going on. But then that causes new problems if they take one another over.

And there is little hope for them to all follow the peace plan. Not with people screwing it up.

If I remember right Israel has given up land for peace before (Egypt?), why wouldn't they this time?

Bernadotte

Quote[/b] ]For every Hamas militant that Israel assassinates, 3 innocent bystanders are killed.

By Israel or by Hamas?

[USSoldier11B 0]

Quote[/b] ]Who? ...The ones that showed up over 1000 years ago or the ones that showed up less than 100 years ago (um... after being away for 2000 years)?

I'm not saying who....and what do you mean? Jews have lived in that region since the dawn of that religion....which is, um much older than Islam. Anyway, I'm not advocating the removal of either party. I'm just saying that the proximity of the two will always cause conflict, unless the entire region has on huge epiphany and there is a paradigm shift.

[Harnu 0]

Harnu

Quote[/b] ]But if you were Isreal, would you want to appease to that?  It seems to me like that would be a major kick in the balls.

Hamas are fighting because they wouldn't back down either, because they want their land back.

It's a never ending cycle.  Until one either backs down, or takes complete control of the other, this will still be going on.  But then that causes new problems if they take one another over.

And there is little hope for them to all follow the peace plan.  Not with people screwing it up.

If I remember right Israel has given up land for peace before (Egypt?), why wouldn't they this time?

You keep throwing land to everyone who comes by, you're not going to have a place to stand on.

[The Frenchman 0]

A simple cartoon can explain the situation in Israel and Palistine(sp)

The Adventures of.....

and

How it Works

[Longinius 1]

"Jews have lived in that region since the dawn of that religion....which is, um much older than Islam."

I am pretty sure arabic people have been in the region for just as long...

"You keep throwing land to everyone who comes by, you're not going to have a place to stand on.´"

Thats the truth! Go ahead and ask any indian about it...

"By Israel or by Hamas?"

I am taking a wild stab in the dark here, but maybe Israel? Or would Palestinians instakill their own bystanders just for fun when the Israeli missiles hit?

[Bernadotte 0]

Quote[/b] ]Who?  ...The ones that showed up over 1000 years ago or the ones that showed up less than 100 years ago (um... after being away for 2000 years)?

I'm not saying who....and what do you mean? Jews have lived in that region since the dawn of that religion....

I'm not referring to the 30 - 50,000 Palestinian Jews who by the time of WWI had, for a millennium, been living in harmony with over 700,000 Palestinian Muslims and Chriistians.

I'm referring to the 5 million non-Palestinian Jews who showed up since WWI and founded a country on the Palestinians' land without their permission.

[SpeedyDonkey 0]

Imho Israel is one of the few countries that really deserve/earns to be in it's country.

[Bernadotte 0]

Bernadotte

Quote[/b] ]For every Hamas militant that Israel assassinates, 3 innocent bystanders are killed.

By Israel or by Hamas?

On average, 3 innocent Palestinian bystanders are killed by Israeli forces along with every Hamas militant assassinated by Israeli forces.

[SpeedyDonkey 0]

So called "bystanders" that is

[Bernadotte 0]

Imho Israel is one of the few countries that really deserve/earns to be in it's country.

I guess it's just lucky for you that the Old Testament didn't mention Sweden.

[SpeedyDonkey 0]

I'd have no problems with that