JAM3 - Beta testers

[Keller_777 0]

JAM-3 ?

I am not sure it's such a great idea... the last JAM works fine, and most addonmakers use their own ammo anyway...

[theavonlady 2]

JAM-3 ?

I am not sure it's such a great idea... the last JAM works fine,

This will work no less fine. JAM3 is upward compatible with JAM2. It will include some minor tweaks, as recommended by the community, and additions that previously didn't exist. It will also give you a better choice of sounds.

Quote[/b] ]and most addonmakers use their own ammo anyway...

JAM doesn't stop them from doing that. But as was with JAM2, JAM3 continues to allow you to take a non-JAM addon, code up a separate external addon PBO file and convert it to being JAM compatible without modifying the original addon.

As Mel Brook's 2000 Year Old Man said, "Who's hurting ya?".

[Messiah 2]

JAM-3 ?

I am not sure it's such a great idea... the last JAM works fine, and most addonmakers use their own ammo anyway...

like avon said, most addon makers who adopt Jam also make their own magazines to run along side Jam. A weapon can use several types of ammunition, and all that has to be done is the weapon needs to be defined to be able to use Jam... its then up to the mission editor whether to use Jam or regular ammo

[Maddmatt 1]

Hopefully someone will understand this:

In JAM and MAAM the fired eventhandler would execute a script called "firedEH.sqs", this script causes some lag when many units are firing. It could easily be turned into a *.sqf function file.You can have "JAM_firedEH = loadfile "jam\scripts\firedEH.sqs" in the init eventhandler. Then you have something like "_this call JAM_firedEH" in the fired eventhandler. This would reduce the lag quite a bit in large firefights

Also, mods like EECP and Y2K3 replace most weapon models in JAM, except for the M16 with M203, AK74GL and AKMGL. The reason is because JAM defines their models in its config instead of simply inheriting from the BIS versions.

[cornhelium 0]

Thanks Maddmatt,

We're tinkering with the Beta2 to make it more "transparent" for users of config mods like Y2K3 etc.

As for the scripting, this is way beyond me, and we could really use some help from experienced scripters. Nothing fancy - just keeping the basic scripted elements up to date, and optimising compatibility with ECP. If anyone is interested, please drop Avon a line.

Many thanks

Cornhelium

[AgentFox2 0]

Hope all is going well with everyone.

I have some additional thoughts apart from what I already mentioned about grenade vests...These are just suggestions, but I think they would really enhance JAM as a whole.

With the current JAM code, 200 rounds of 7.62 links take up the same amount of inventory space as the same amount of 5.56. This is obviously not representative of reality, as in real life, 7.62 rounds weigh much more than 5.56, meaning you can carry less of them. Currently you can load up an M240 or FN MAG machine gunner with 1,000 7.62x51mm rounds!! I think that in the future, the space ammunition takes should be taken into account for realism. Perhaps it would be better to have a system like so:

50 round 7.62 belt - 1 space

100 round 7.62 belt - 2 spaces

200 round 7.62 belt - 4 spaces

with 200 round 5.56 belts still taking 2 spaces

The second issue I'd like to suggest fixing is the problem with the suppressed magazines. They seem to have too low of a velocity for many weapons, especially 5.56mm, as most of the common 5.56 weapons cannot use subsonic rounds without manually cycling the bolt (which means they are not used). This causes quite an arced and unpredictable trajectory anywhere below 400 meters with JAM. Maybe it would be best if the suppressed rounds in JAM were similar in config values (trajectory, sound config) to Earl's M4 mags, as those are one of the most well done examples of suppressed weapons in OFP, in my humble opinion.

[cornhelium 0]

Hi AgentFox,

Many thanks for your comments - we'll have a look at that at some point

Cheers,

CH

[TDogg 0]

Will each individual weapon have its own sound in this update?

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Well, have they ever not?

[cornhelium 0]

Hey TDogg,

Quote[/b] ]Will each individual weapon have its own sound in this update?

Yes mate - most magazines will have a separate fire sound. You can now hear the difference between an SKS and an AK47, an RPD and a PK, or an M16 and an M4. Check out MAAM v1.31 to hear this change.

Cheers,

CH

[TDogg 0]

ok thx.

[HOBOMAN 0]

A nice feature for Jam would be the bipod function for use on the action menu,

it could would by deleting the gun and spawning a static version of the gun with the player in the "gunner position",

then to get out you press another action and the static is deleted and the portable is put back into the players hands

a challange for the great addon makers,

but it would add a nice element into the game for sniping and mounting mg's

[Big Dawg KS 6]

There would be no sensable way to do that I allready thought about it but no besides its JAM, JAM isn't meant for that stuff.

[ruff 102]

A MUST

ONE BIG THING not to forget in the cpp is "///////////= changed parametres"

since jam is meant to be changed all the time for personal use

i myself have tweaked my jam values to my liking, and a jam 3 with "/////=changed parametres" will be easy to add/edit/change values , so that jam3 versions can edited easier to add the user modified jam changes

also requesting a 6.8X43 ammo

thanks

and keep up the good work

[Big Dawg KS 6]

A MUST

ONE BIG THING not to forget in the cpp is "///////////= changed parametres"

since jam is meant to be changed all the time for personal use  

i myself have tweaked my jam values to my liking, and a jam 3 with "/////=changed parametres" will be easy to add/edit/change values , so that jam3 versions can edited easier to add the user modified jam changes

also requesting a 6.8X43 ammo

thanks

and keep up the good work

Eh, JAM isn't meant to be changed for personal use, its meant to stay universal. The whole point of JAM is to replace every magazine out there with a standardized JAM one, not so you can mess with it.

[ruff 102]

no

you can change range,bullet speed add more ammo types for your own use and sound

without messing around with existing ammo classnames

ha!

[hardrock 1]

no

you can change range,bullet speed add more ammo types for your own use and sound

without messing around with existing ammo classnames

ha!

Actually it isn't ment to be like that, at least if you're playing multiplayer. For SP it doesn't matter, but once you play an online game it is of big relevance if everybody has his custom weapons with his custom values or not.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

no

you can change range,bullet speed add more ammo types for your own use and sound

without messing around with existing ammo classnames

ha!

You CAN, but you are not supposed to, actualy, in doing so, you are actualy defeating the entire purpose of JAM, your mag is no longer universial, since its different from everyone elses.

[Baphomet 0]

FDF really just sort of does it's own thing and to be honest. I think it's better.

Better sound... better... everything really. Not to mention it's editable so I can pretty much use all stock weapons and any addon that uses stock weapons to my specification.

If FDF wasn't an option I think JAM would be a good alternative.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]A MUST

ONE BIG THING not to forget in the cpp is "///////////= changed parametres"

since jam is meant to be changed all the time for personal use  

i myself have tweaked my jam values to my liking, and a jam 3 with "/////=changed parametres" will be easy to add/edit/change values , so that jam3 versions can edited easier to add the user modified jam changes

also requesting a 6.8X43 ammo

thanks

and keep up the good work

Eh, JAM isn't meant to be changed for personal use, its meant to stay universal. The whole point of JAM is to replace every magazine out there with a standardized JAM one, not so you can mess with it.

Well. I think I like FDF much better simply because it's not some kind of an addon implying that I have to adhere to standards set by someone else, be it sounds or variables that don't conform to my liking. Honestly. If you want customizability. Making your own .cpp or FDF mod is the way to go.

JAM is ideally more like some... multiplayer standardization or something. I won't touch that whole area with a 10 foot pole since internet OFP isn't my bag. I'm a control freak and I really have no care at all for how anyone else thinks I should play the game.

[cornhelium 0]

Hi Baphomet,

Sorry, I don't understand your point. FDF is a full 300mb mod that changes GUI, config etc. JAM consists of 2 small pbo files that addonmakers can choose to use for their ammo and sounds if they wish. The advantages of this include:

1. an M16 made by one addonmaker will have the same range, recoil, accuracy etc. as an M16 made by another addonmaker, provided they both use JAM mags. This makes things more fair in MP, as you say.

2. In the above scenario, you could pick up magazines for your M16 from dead units using that other M16. More ammo = good

3. JAM sounds are stored in a separate file (JAM_Sounds.pbo). You can you can upPbo it and replace the individual sounds with any sound you want.

There will be 2 or 3 alternative versions of the JAM_Sounds.pbo released with JAM3.

Cheers,

Cornhelium

[ruff 102]

no

you can change range,bullet speed add more ammo types for your own use and sound

without messing around with existing ammo classnames

ha!

You CAN, but you are not supposed to, actualy, in doing so, you are actualy defeating the entire purpose of JAM, your mag is no longer universial, since its different from everyone elses.

i play sp only

i havent played jam in mp and don't want to due to my jam values

in sp changing and adding jam values/ammo types is really cool since you find the correct muzzle velocities damage/range and missing ammo for custom weapons

like the special spc m4s which use 6.8X45mm rounds which spec ops use with reports saying its better than the 5.56 and 7.62 bullets

example of modified jam values, m4 range 400m/s mv=902m/s

machingun range 550m, ak74 450m, added 6.8mm ammo hit=11.5, mv=855m/s sound using m14 . m16 mv=945m/s, changed magsd speed for better accuracy to 800m/s

stuff like that, i can add more realism in some aspects and less in some aspects since its a game

so in the end when ai usues those weapons i end up having long range fights with my ai enemies shooting at me 400m away with hd ammo. results to great gaming atmosphere

also my point really was/suggestion was to keep the "//////// = changed parametres" part of the cpp so that we know what was changed

also your talking of more mp when u say universal. since i use 5.56 auto ammo in my sp games i kill an ai carrying 5.56 auto ammo and i pick it up and it will sill have the same values when the ai used it. it's still universal and thats not defeating the purpose of jam since it's universal. only in mp games if i use my modified jam would i defeat it's purpsoe.

for me jam is an addon which allows to tweak and add ammo types for ai and myself playing sp and want more out of bullets/modified weapons. speed/hit/punch

[ruff 102]

3. JAM sounds are stored in a separate file (JAM_Sounds.pbo). You can you can upPbo it and replace the individual sounds with any sound you want.

There will be 2 or 3 alternative versions of the JAM_Sounds.pbo released with JAM3.

Cheers,

Cornhelium

see

is that changing the purpose of jam since the gun sounds are not UNIVERSAL

no

from JAM readme

the answer

The first option is to use only BIS magazines but with all due respect for their coding, it is sometimes nice to be able to use custom sounds and settings in the magazines. This is where JAM comes in. Joint Ammo and Mags project (JAM) is a magazine standard developed by BAS and Digital Grenade for use with all our units. We also invite other addonmakers/mods to use JAM to improve compatibility between similar version of weapons made by different people. It is impossible to code for every single weapon/magazine combination, we have included the most common and therefore the most likely to be shared between different units. Some specialised magazines do not need the commonality that JAM provides so can be coded separately in each addon.

it says "customs sounds and settings in magazines"

i guess im using jam for it's pupose

[Big Dawg KS 6]

see

is that changing the purpose of jam since the gun sounds are not UNIVERSAL

no

from JAM readme

the answer

The first option is to use only BIS magazines but with all due respect for their coding, it is sometimes nice to be able to use custom sounds and settings in the magazines. This is where JAM comes in. Joint Ammo and Mags project (JAM) is a magazine standard developed by BAS and Digital Grenade for use with all our units. We also invite other addonmakers/mods to use JAM to improve compatibility between similar version of weapons made by different people. It is impossible to code for every single weapon/magazine combination, we have included the most common and therefore the most likely to be shared between different units. Some specialised magazines do not need the commonality that JAM provides so can be coded separately in each addon.

it says "customs sounds and settings in magazines"

i guess im using jam for it's pupose

Sounds are completly different, and I encourage the idea of changable sounds, however, editing the config of ANY addon is a BAD thing, especialy JAM, (very especialy), since JAM is allready set to a standard, and the creators went through alot of trouble to get the values as realistic as possible with keeping a gameplay fairness balance. Going in and changing them would not only be pointless, but would probably be a bit disrespectful to the creators. Another thing is, some missions and other addons are designed to fit the JAM standards, and if you change them then you may throw off these missions/addons (ex. Tank armor values, number of enemy tanks in a mission and only alowed X amount of AT rounds).

Let me qoute some things from the JAM readme that you posted:

Quote[/b] ]Joint Ammo and Mags project (JAM) is a magazine standard developed by BAS and Digital Grenade for use with all our units. We also invite other addonmakers/mods to use JAM to improve compatibility between similar version of weapons made by different people.

Their intention is to create a perfect enough addon so you dont HAVE to edit it, to create a single unmodified standard config that is the exact same for everyone. Also notice:

Quote[/b] ]Some specialised magazines do not need the commonality that JAM provides so can be coded separately in each addon.

By this, they mean magazines that are not generaly used for more than one weapon should be added with that weapons config. For example, someone makes a new weapon addon that in real life uses a magazine that no other weapon could possibly use, ever. The creator makes his own magazine for it, and since no other guns will ever use it, it doesn't need to be in JAM.

[redneckehv 0]

the only critique that i have to offer is that i belive the sounds in jam2 were unrealistic. try researching the weapon sounds before making the sound. for example the .223 or 5.56 ammo was way to snappy. i own a .223 calibre rifle and it sounds much more boomy than the jam2 version. the ak47 noise sounded fine to me, however the ak74 sounded like a tin can. just because the bullet size is bigger it doesent mean it should have a deeper boom. many factors are present such as barrel lengh and the amount of powder behind the bullet, also muzzel breakes make a gun much louder and deeper.

i love jam, but in jam3 i think that more realistic sounds should be impleamented.

[ruff 102]

see

is that changing the purpose of jam since the gun sounds are not UNIVERSAL

no

from JAM readme

the answer

The first option is to use only BIS magazines but with all due respect for their coding, it is sometimes nice to be able to use custom sounds and settings in the magazines. This is where JAM comes in. Joint Ammo and Mags project (JAM) is a magazine standard developed by BAS and Digital Grenade for use with all our units. We also invite other addonmakers/mods to use JAM to improve compatibility between similar version of weapons made by different people. It is impossible to code for every single weapon/magazine combination, we have included the most common and therefore the most likely to be shared between different units. Some specialised magazines do not need the commonality that JAM provides so can be coded separately in each addon.

it says "customs sounds and settings in magazines"

i guess im using jam for it's pupose

Sounds are completly different, and I encourage the idea of changable sounds, however, editing the config of ANY addon is a BAD thing, especialy JAM, (very especialy), since JAM is allready set to a standard, and the creators went through alot of trouble to get the values as realistic as possible with keeping a gameplay fairness balance. Going in and changing them would not only be pointless, but would probably be a bit disrespectful to the creators. Another thing is, some missions and other addons are designed to fit the JAM standards, and if you change them then you may throw off these missions/addons (ex. Tank armor values, number of enemy tanks in a mission and only alowed X amount of AT rounds).

Let me qoute some things from the JAM readme that you posted:

Quote[/b] ]Joint Ammo and Mags project (JAM) is a magazine standard developed by BAS and Digital Grenade for use with all our units. We also invite other addonmakers/mods to use JAM to improve compatibility between similar version of weapons made by different people.

Their intention is to create a perfect enough addon so you dont HAVE to edit it, to create a single unmodified standard config that is the exact same for everyone. Also notice:

Quote[/b] ]Some specialised magazines do not need the commonality that JAM provides so can be coded separately in each addon.

By this, they mean magazines that are not generaly used for more than one weapon should be added with that weapons config. For example, someone makes a new weapon addon that in real life uses a magazine that no other weapon could possibly use, ever. The creator makes his own magazine for it, and since no other guns will ever use it, it doesn't need to be in JAM.

in the end

cpp is not binarized

i think they left it like that so ppl can learn or change them in single player

and magazines muzzle velocities are different for every gun

e.g. and m16a1 has a different muzzle velocity than an m4 and less power yet both have same values, so it's good to change it for your personal preference in sp, also range, like most ai's who carry a rifle can only shoot rifles 250m away? so if you order them to shoot they won't 250m beyond

in the end it's up to the person who dl it

why shouldn't ppl be able to edit their addons for their own use as long as it's not affecting anyone

even most addon makers ask to borrow textures etc. therefore they wouldve had a look at the config to find out which terxture/ parts goes with which

my suggestion was just add "////=changed parametres" function to any ammo values changed

and if they didn't want jam changed they would of bined the config

and again im talking about single player not multiplayer like what you seem to be saying