USA Politics Thread - *No gun debate*

[j w 0]

Quote[/b] ]What do you think would happen if.. say a certain group of oil-rich countries decided to stop selling oil to the US?

Perhaps the US would start drilling in a cold, moose-filled location...

Keep away from Sweden!

[Nemesis6 0]

What do you think would happen if.. say a certain group of oil-rich countries decided to stop selling oil to the US?

The Islamist oil-ticks would die because that would pretty much kill their economy both through trade and through the lack of financial support.

[Sertorius 0]

Quote[/b] ]Keep away from Sweden!

No, no, no. Sweden comes after Alaska...

[EiZei 0]

What do you think would happen if.. say a certain group of oil-rich countries decided to stop selling oil to the US?

The Islamist oil-ticks would die because that would pretty much kill their economy both through trade and through the lack of financial support.

Nah, they'd get "liberated" first.

[Sophion-Black 0]

Nah, they'd get "liberated" first.

that was low

[Sertorius 0]

Quote[/b] ]Nah, they'd get "liberated" first.

Well, there's no reason to "liberate" the country if all we want is some oil. Just send in the Marines to secure a perimeter around a large oil field and start pumping oil out to tankers in the Persian Gulf. No messy insurgency or civil wars, just pure sweet crude.

[Garcia 0]

Quote[/b] ]Nah, they'd get "liberated" first.

Well, there's no reason to "liberate" the country if all we want is some oil. Just send in the Marines to secure a perimeter around a large oil field and start pumping oil out to tankers in the Persian Gulf. No messy insurgency or civil wars, just pure sweet crude.

Problem is legalizing it...and therefor "liberating" a people from something is a neat thing...or of course, take out a threat with WMD (which they don't really got to have) or something like that. Just rolling in, stealing someones oil and such would make USA look really bad, like a bully...the "liberation" would make them look like wannabe heroes and a country with really crappy intelligence

[Sophion-Black 0]

now thats too far  

[xawery 0]

now thats too far

Indignation is a poor argument.

[Sophion-Black 0]

Can someone explain to me why a program that is not affected by the policies of the pentagon gets the boot for one "bad" policy?

ABC News: SF Gives Boot to JROTC

Quote[/b] ]SAN FRANCISCO Nov 15, 2006 (AP)— High schools across the city soon will no longer have Junior Reserve Officers' Training Corps programs after officials decided to eliminate them because of the Pentagon's "don't ask, don't tell" policy regarding gay service members.

[billybob2002 0]

Can someone explain to me why a program that is not affected by the policies of the pentagon gets the boot for one "bad" policy?

ABC News: SF Gives Boot to JROTC

Quote[/b] ]SAN FRANCISCO Nov 15, 2006 (AP)— High schools across the city soon will no longer have Junior Reserve Officers' Training Corps programs after officials decided to eliminate them because of the Pentagon's "don't ask, don't tell" policy regarding gay service members.

Resolution.

There are other reasons, which the media forgot to report, in the resolution for ending ROTC. It seems the resolution was more of a "feck you" to the military then about gays in the military.

Here is another fine resolution by that school board.

Remember, San Francisco is a "special" place.

[Nemesis6 0]

Ellison backs away from nutjobs(CAIR)

Quote[/b] ](CNSNews.com) - Congressman-elect Keith Ellison, the first Muslim elected to the U.S. House of Representatives, will not address a meeting of a controversial Islamic organization Saturday even though the group has been advertising since the election that he would be the keynote speaker.

The Council on American Islamic Relations announced Nov. 9 that Ellison, a Minnesota Democrat, would be the keynote speaker at the group’s annual banquet on Nov. 18.The announcement also revealed that the speaker lineup is to include Democratic Reps. Elijah Cummings and Albert Wynn, both of Maryland, and Sheila Jackson Lee of Texas.

However, Bridget Cusick, a spokeswoman for Ellison, told Cybercast News Service Wednesday that Ellison had never accepted the group’s invitation and was never scheduled to appear at the banquet.

“We have four events in the state that day and they’ve been on the calendar for a long time,†she said. “The invitation was extended to us and somewhere in translation between our scheduler and the conversation that had happened about it with someone else, there was just a miscommunication.â€

Ibrahim Hooper, a spokesman for CAIR, told Cybercast News Service that Ellison was still listed on the banquet schedule because he would address the group through a videotaped message.

Cusick said she was unaware of the videotaped appearance. “He’s been in D.C. all week, and I’ve been back here, so if that conversation happened, I’m unaware of it,†she said of Ellison, who has been in the nation’s capital for freshman orientation. “I’m certainly not saying it’s not true, but it is something I’m unaware of.â€

I really hope he's doing this because he's realized that you shouldn't hang out and blindly accept political and financial help from extremist Islamist terror groups.

[Sophion-Black 0]

There are other reasons, which the media forgot to report, in the resolution for ending ROTC. It seems the resolution was more of a "feck you" to the military then about gays in the military.

You know I kinda got the hint.

You know... I think this is what we as the US should do:

1) Remove all US flags from the affected schools

2) Suspend pay for all elected officials who contributed

3) Have the mayor ask for the resignation of the board members who acted for the ban.

This is a real problem in the US that has to be addressed. For a state paid by American blood to attack the military is like a slap in the face. The actions done by these people can be interpreted as "dereliction of duty." Besides, its only going to take time for the cadets to realize they can sue the system for discrimination.

This is ridiculous, given the choose I would have lined those SOB's up in a line and shot.  they stopped a program that helps out their own society!

Oh man... *pulls out pistols*

Quote[/b] ]WHEREAS: Civilian control of the military, and restriction of military involvement in civilian

affairs is a fundamental characteristic of a healthy democracy; and

Objection: State Governor overseeing the state's national guard

Quote[/b] ]WHEREAS: The San Francisco Unified School District has restricted the activities of military

recruiters on our campuses; and

Objection: Property run by the state and regulated by the federal government gives the military the right to recruit on it

Quote[/b] ]WHEREAS: The San Francisco Unified School District has adopted violence prevention and

conflict resolution strategies that promote non-violent behavior; and

Objection: If someone could name any language, tribe, and/or nation that HAS NOT seen war i will take back this objection; but in human nature peace can never be attained.

Quote[/b] ]WHEREAS: JROTC instructors are not certificated teachers, and may not even possess a

college degree of any kind; and

Objection: JROTC instructors posses advanced knowledge and understanding of the course defined.

Quote[/b] ]<!>WHEREAS: JROTC is one of the largest after school activities at some High Schools; and<!>

Proof to be noted for charges of "dereliction of duty" for not acting on behalf of the students.

Quote[/b] ]WHEREAS: The Board of Education has received extensive testimony that JROTC promotes

self-esteem, community service, and academic and leadership skills; and

again noted for charges

Quote[/b] ]Be it Further Resolved: The Board of Education finds that JROTC programs on campus

constitute a form of military recruitment and are in violation of our policy governing fair access

for recruiters on campuses; and

Objection: members ARE NOT required to join the military

Quote[/b] ]Be it Further Resolved: That the Board of Education directs that the current JROTC subsidies

be re-distributed, as the program is drawn down, to SFUSD high schools on an equitable basis

through the weighted student formula, to support and expand (after school) opportunities for all

students.

Contracdicting order (See "<!>" brackets)

This is way off course!

[EiZei 0]

This is ridiculous, given the choose I would have lined those SOB's up in a line and shot.

That'll teach the bastards not to hate freedom.

[Sophion-Black 0]

*Note: my post above has been edited*

This is ridiculous, given the choose I would have lined those SOB's up in a line and shot.

That'll teach the bastards not to hate freedom.

People taking actions against something that protects freedom really does makes them, in a sense, people who hate freedom. Its just plain wrong to do this. JROTC cannot do anything to combat the policy. Again the policy does not affect JROTC!

[Sophion-Black 0]

Here is another fine resolution by that school board.

Remember, San Francisco is a "special" place.

JESUS H. CHRIST!!!!!

The federal govenrment has controll over the CNG because the role to which they have been called and orginized to: is for the act "in the national security interests of the United States to restore international peace and security to the Persian Gulf region"

Thus giving the president the athorization to "defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq"

by now you all must know what I am getting at. The issue that the CNG is under national controll is because it is a national security issue. And when in September 9, 1850 California was admitted to a nation called the "United States of America."

[Nemesis6 0]

Quote[/b] ]WASHINGTON, Nov. 20 /PRNewswire/ — More than 1,000 people turned out on Saturday at the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) banquet in Arlington, Va., to hear addresses by several elected officials, including Keith Ellison, the first Muslim in Congress.

The event raised more than $620,000 to support CAIR’s civil rights and advocacy work on behalf of the American Muslim community. (Another dinner held by CAIR’s Southern California chapter (CAIR-LA) over the weekend raised more than $430,000. Some 1,800 people attended that event.)

Elected officials who spoke at the sold-out event included Representative- elect Ellison (D-MN), as well as Reps. Mike Honda (D-CA), Sheila Jackson Lee (D-TX) and Albert Wynn (D-MD). Ellison and Jackson Lee offered their addresses by video. Saqib Ali, who was elected to the Maryland House of Delegates (District 39) on November 7, was also in attendance.

Other speakers included Special Agent in Charge Joseph Persichini, Jr. of the FBI’s Washington Field Office, Fairfax County Police Chief Col. David M. Rohrer and Amy Goodman of Democracy Now. Most members of CAIR’s national board also took part in the banquet, which was emceed by Julia Shearson of CAIR- Ohio’s Cleveland office.

Ok, Keith Ellison hasn't learned the lesson, and he's raising funds for an Islamist terror front group. Now how come this doesn't surprise me? First Muslim in congress, and he's already raising funds for terror groups.

[TrevorOfCrete 0]

Quote[/b] ]WASHINGTON, Nov. 20 /PRNewswire/ — More than 1,000 people turned out on Saturday at the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) banquet in Arlington, Va., to hear addresses by several elected officials, including Keith Ellison, the first Muslim in Congress.

The event raised more than $620,000 to support CAIR’s civil rights and advocacy work on behalf of the American Muslim community. (Another dinner held by CAIR’s Southern California chapter (CAIR-LA) over the weekend raised more than $430,000. Some 1,800 people attended that event.)

Elected officials who spoke at the sold-out event included Representative- elect Ellison (D-MN), as well as Reps. Mike Honda (D-CA), Sheila Jackson Lee (D-TX) and Albert Wynn (D-MD). Ellison and Jackson Lee offered their addresses by video. Saqib Ali, who was elected to the Maryland House of Delegates (District 39) on November 7, was also in attendance.

Other speakers included Special Agent in Charge Joseph Persichini, Jr. of the FBI’s Washington Field Office, Fairfax County Police Chief Col. David M. Rohrer and Amy Goodman of Democracy Now. Most members of CAIR’s national board also took part in the banquet, which was emceed by Julia Shearson of CAIR- Ohio’s Cleveland office.

Ok, Keith Ellison hasn't learned the lesson, and he's raising funds for an Islamist terror front group. Now how come this doesn't surprise me? First Muslim in congress, and he's already raising funds for terror groups.

yep becuase raising money for a civil rights group is clearly going to be spent on training terrorists. are you just all out to label anything with the word muslim, arab or allah in it a terrorist?

[Nemesis6 0]

Check my last post to find out that they're not a civil rights movement or whatever chivalric names people apply to them. They're a previous Hamas-fundraiser turned sue-anyone-who-opposes-radical-Islam maniacs.

This political cartoon shows them quite well.

But read the article I posted. It silenced the last one who tried to paint me as an Islamophobe, and I think it'll open your eyes to the fact that there's a difference between civil rights and civil rights through harassment, frivolous lawsuits that are just ripe for the Chilling Effects project, and terror funding.

Here's the article -

www.meforum.org/article/916 - CAIR: Islamists fooling the establishment

After reading that, do you still think they're for 'civil rights'?

[ralphwiggum 6]

Quote[/b] ]WASHINGTON, Nov. 20 /PRNewswire/ — More than 1,000 people turned out on Saturday at the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) banquet in Arlington, Va., to hear addresses by several elected officials, including Keith Ellison, the first Muslim in Congress.

The event raised more than $620,000 to support CAIR’s civil rights and advocacy work on behalf of the American Muslim community. (Another dinner held by CAIR’s Southern California chapter (CAIR-LA) over the weekend raised more than $430,000. Some 1,800 people attended that event.)

Elected officials who spoke at the sold-out event included Representative- elect Ellison (D-MN), as well as Reps. Mike Honda (D-CA), Sheila Jackson Lee (D-TX) and Albert Wynn (D-MD). Ellison and Jackson Lee offered their addresses by video. Saqib Ali, who was elected to the Maryland House of Delegates (District 39) on November 7, was also in attendance.

Other speakers included Special Agent in Charge Joseph Persichini, Jr. of the FBI’s Washington Field Office, Fairfax County Police Chief Col. David M. Rohrer and Amy Goodman of Democracy Now. Most members of CAIR’s national board also took part in the banquet, which was emceed by Julia Shearson of CAIR- Ohio’s Cleveland office.

Ok, Keith Ellison hasn't learned the lesson, and he's raising funds for an Islamist terror front group. Now how come this doesn't surprise me? First Muslim in congress, and he's already raising funds for terror groups.

so is he supposed to blindly follow narrow minded xenophobic ideas of conservatives? I guess being a muslim group and/or attending such function is terrorist supporting.

In case you missed,

Quote[/b] ]Other speakers included Special Agent in Charge Joseph Persichini, Jr. of the FBI’s Washington Field Office, Fairfax County Police Chief Col. David M. Rohrer and Amy Goodman of Democracy Now. Most members of CAIR’s national board also took part in the banquet, which was emceed by Julia Shearson of CAIR- Ohio’s Cleveland office.

Wow. FBI field officer attends a group that is labeled as a terrorist support group. What kind of travesty is that? If you are not understanding the reality, CAIR might be a group of loud-mouthed whining babies, but is not a terrorist supporting group. But I guess FBI condones terrorist supporting group, right?

Quote[/b] ]But read the article I posted. It silenced the last one who tried to paint me as an Islamophobe

It was stopped because you and the others were slinging mud, not because you were right.

[Sertorius 0]

Quote[/b] ]so is he supposed to blindly follow narrow minded xenophobic ideas of conservatives? I guess being a muslim group and/or attending such function is terrorist supporting.

Gee, a straw man argument and playing the race card. Personally, I'd say that CAIR's funding of HLF (Front group which funded Hamas), not to mention the unfortunate tendency for its financiers and leaders to be caught contributing to various other terrorism-funding organizations, is enough to justify regarding the organization with a degree of suspicion.

Quote[/b] ]Wow. FBI field officer attends a group that is labeled as a terrorist support group. What kind of travesty is that? If you are not understanding the reality, CAIR might be a group of loud-mouthed whining babies, but is not a terrorist supporting group. But I guess FBI condones terrorist supporting group, right?

A travesty? Gee, maybe he was there to check it out. And CAIR does have strong connections to Hamas, so trivializing it as "whining babies" is deceptive.

[Garcia 0]

Gee, maybe he was there to check it out.

Uh...so that's how FBI work nowdays when they're "checking out" "suspicious" organizations etc? They go there and hold a speech?

[Sophion-Black 0]

Quote[/b] ]yep becuase raising money for a civil rights group is clearly going to be spent on training terrorists.  are you just all out to label anything with the word muslim, arab or allah in it a terrorist?

No, I presume they are just labeling that organization as such because it's founder said "Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Koran ... should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on earth."

(here's the source)

Doesn't that sound a little off-key to you?

[ralphwiggum 6]

Quote[/b] ]yep becuase raising money for a civil rights group is clearly going to be spent on training terrorists.  are you just all out to label anything with the word muslim, arab or allah in it a terrorist?

No, I presume they are just labeling that organization as such because it's founder said "Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Koran ... should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on earth."

(here's the source)

Doesn't that sound a little off-key to you?

I knew this file would show up again. This has been the ONLY source of such remarks. Depite having been in power for many years and speaking many times, Ahmad has only one speech against him.

about Ahmad - Wikipedia

But I guess him stepping down is not good enough

Seems like there is a serious straw grasping on conservative side.

Gee, a straw man argument and playing the race card. Personally, I'd say that CAIR's funding of HLF (Front group which funded Hamas), not to mention the unfortunate tendency for its financiers and leaders to be caught contributing to various other terrorism-funding organizations, is enough to justify regarding the organization with a degree of suspicion.

Please explain why my comments were using racecard and using a strawman argument.

.....................

Quote[/b] ]A travesty? Gee, maybe he was there to check it out. And CAIR does have strong connections to Hamas, so trivializing it as "whining babies" is deceptive.

Making a speech at a meeting does not require a head of field office going there.

don't try to fit little bits of information into your own narrow view. Look at the information and draw conclusion from it. Last time The Bush Administration tried to fit information into its own view, they ended up with a problem they can't solve.

[denoir 0]

No, I presume they are just labeling that organization as such because it's founder said "Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Koran ... should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on earth."

(here's the source)

Doesn't that sound a little off-key to you?

Very off key, just like the fundamentalist Christians (and there's a lot of them) who claim that America was founded on Christian values and that Christianity should be encouraged and preferably enforced by the law. While this is a minority, it is a very large and loud minority with significant power.

Remember for instance case of the ten commandments outside of various courts of law, when they all came out of the wood works?

Of course any such sectarianism is off-key in a modern democratic society or at least should be.

Is Islam today worse than Christianity? Absolutely - the number of zealots per capita (zpc) in Islamic countries is far higher than in any traditionally Christian countries. Having said that, the number of zpc in America and the number of zpc in the Mid East are far more similar than the number of zpc in Europe.

Those in the Mid East at least have the excuse of poverty, lack of education and extraordinarily corrupt political systems. In America only lack of education would qualify, but strictly by choice (like the resistance to teaching evolution) rather than by economical necessity.

I think that the proverb "People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones" applies. Before Americans (usually of the right-wing conservative, religious type) get upset about Islam, they should take a look at their own behaviour and assumptions.

Ultimately I agree with Émile Zola's statement that "Civilization will not attain to its perfection until the last stone from the last church falls on the last priest." (replace church and priest to fit with the religion of your choice). Although I wouldn't go as far as making it a prerequisite for perfection but rather for civilized behaviour between humans. The "right" answer is to both be upset with Muslims and Christians.

The moderates are no exception - they support that arbitrary framework that enables the extremists. I could go around killing people who work on Sundays and be as justifiably Christian as somebody who on the basis of religious conviction helps poor people. The texts (Bible, Koran etc) that provide the basic rules of the religion are full of contradictions and archaic moral rules. Since there is no objective criteria to weed the bad parts out picking any part of of it is equally valid. Since any interpretation is as good as the next one and you can't prove that one text is more correct than the other you get sectarianism and an arbitrary morality. Far from the claim that morality comes from religion - it corrupts it.

The least violent countries in the world are the Scandinavian ones who are dominantly atheistic. The most violent countries in the world are the ones in the Mid East who are dominantly religious. The most violent country in the western world is the US and it is no coincidence that it is the most religious one as well.