Gunmen take 200+ student hostages

[philcommando 0]

Mankind is never perfect, but throughout the several thousand years of civilisation, we have sought to live peaceably with our neighbours by standardnising a code of civil laws so that society can live in peace if not in harmony. Its not perfect but at least we are free to do what we want as long as we do not hurt one another using whatever discriminatory or exclusivity excuse to kill, maim and hurt.

The smallest unit in a mankind society is the family. If the son is wild, its the RESPONSIBILITY of the parent to get him line. If the parent does not, the son will only get bolder and become a menace to society. Therefore where the parent fails in his duty, the laws of society will come into effect to eradicate this menace, so dont go crying that others are harming your son, cos U FAILED MISERABLY AS A PARENT!

In recent years, militant islam has sought continuely to behave as a wild child in the eyes of society, every henious deed it does goes unchecked unlike other crimes cos they ONLY NEED TO CRY ITS FAITH TO THE RELIGION AND OTHERS MUST SHUT THEIR MOUTH OR BE BRANDED AS AGAINST THEIR RELIGON..

WAKE UP!!! YOU SO CALLED GOOD MUSLIMS!!! Either u get your clerics to behave, live and let live, preach tolerance and treat the rest of us, IF NOT US, AT LEAST OUR CHILDREN AND INNOCENT CIVILIANS, as humans and not infidels, or u will be branded as fanatics yourselves!!

The rest of society for too long had been patient with your religion and it is high time we apply pressure on your society to get in line or face the wrath of the rest of us who only seek to live in peace with everyone else, for it is from your faith whereby any misinformed village cleric demogogue can rouse and stir simple minded folks to kill by interpreting his word as a word from the holy. Dont shirk your own responsibility as a human of that society by saying 'its them and not us' for its from your faith that produced such beasts.

WE HAD ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How many more children dead then will convince you to wake up and do something as a society???!!!

[Gollum1 0]

Are you actively engaged in fighting neo-Nazis, philcommando? Don't you feel responsible for them?

IT'S YOU RACE THAT PRODUCED THEM!!!!11111

[Gollum1 0]

If you want to use it, please host it on your own. Not mine, from militaryphotos.net.

[CrackerJack 0]

The hostage taking has nothing to do with the religion it was all about liberation of chechnya, don´t you go telling about killing children, go to Iraq and Afghanistan and count how many children where killed there. If this is a contest of killing innocent then you would loose.

It really wasn´t suprising that all those people would die, with the thought of storming and what happend last time, I can bet you that alot of people died by russian bullets that tried to shoot after those who ran in to the fleing croud. Well that´s unfortunet.

Basayev is one of the greatest people in Chechnya, he wants to free his country at all costs and there is nothing wrong with that. If you think that chechens killing innocent in moskva etc is really unfair maybe you should look how many russian soldiers kill chechen people. bla bla bla I´ll come up with more later gotta eat food.

[theavonlady 2]

The hostage taking has nothing to do with the religion it was all about liberation of chechnya

Pay attention.

Quote[/b] ]Chechen Rebels Want Own Muslim State, Laws

Fri Sep 3, 8:53 PM ET

MOSCOW - Rebels linked to the school hostage-taking seek independence from Russia and most want to make Chechnya (news - web sites) a sovereign Muslim nation.

The first war between Chechen rebels and Russian forces in the past decade had less of a religious element than the current conflict, which began in September 1999.

In the 1994-96 war, separatists led by Chechen President Dzhokhar Dudayev appeared to be driven primarily by centuries of resentment of Russia, whose czarist army subjugated the region, and its Soviet successor, whose dictator Josef Stalin ordered the wholesale deportation of Chechens to Central Asia in 1944.

Although most Chechens are Muslim, Aslan Maskhadov, who became president of Chechnya after Russian forces withdrew in 1996, was seen as relatively secular. However, he came under increasing pressure from radical Islamic factions led by warlord Shamil Basayev and eventually declared Sharia law, or Islamic law, an idea that has less support among the public at large than it does among the rebels.

Basayev was a leader of the Chechen insurgents who mounted a raid into neighboring Dagestan in 1999 with the aim of establishing an Islamic theocratic enclave. That raid was one of the Kremlin's justifications for trying to forcefully regain control of Chechnya and touched off the current conflict.

Maskhadov, despite tensions with Basayev, opposed Russia's offensive. Although he is believed to still hold some fighters' loyalty, those who answer to Basayev are believed to be a far larger and more violent contingent.

[Gollum1 0]

If you think that chechens killing innocent in moskva etc is really unfair maybe you should look how many russian soldiers kill chechen people. bla bla bla I´ll come up with more later gotta eat food.

Oh, so it ISN'T unfair?

What have those children done?

[CrackerJack 0]

yes I do know the history. Basayev took hostages in the hospital in dagestan and the only demand that I remember was for russian troops to leave Chechnya don´t think he said anything about liberating other countries it was media whom accused him of wanting to spread the war. Would he even have wanted to liberate Moskva then? Plus there arent many hostages to take in Chechnya, most of em who where taken hostages where soldiers and most of us have seen those videos.

Gollum, that civilians died yes it´s fair but to kill children directly is a question of moral and I don´t aprove that. But if they where so stupid to storm the building full of children and explosives and armed gunmen then they should blaim them selves.

[Bordoy 0]

CrackerJack are you abit cracked in the head, or you been jacked in your head?

They had to storm the building because the children were being shot in the back running away, which shows the chechyan terrorists are total f*ck heads.

Full Atrocity

[CrackerJack 0]

No im not cracked in head, crackpot that is. I just have different oppinion then you that doesn´t make me wrong.

There was a way of saving those children and that was to comply to their demands.

[CrackerJack 0]

What news site is that? Unlike you I take my facts from other sources too. The things I read was that they forced people to eat flowers and not use toilets then beat up men.

[Bordoy 0]

What news site is that? Unlike you I take my facts from other sources too. The things I read was that they forced people to eat flowers and not use toilets then beat up men.

Quote[/b] ]THEY KNIFED BABIES, THEY RAPED GIRLS Sep 5 2004

SCHOOL SLAUGHTER: 323 DEAD, 434 HURT

By Euan Stretch Chief Reporter

 

THE full horror of the Russian school atrocity began to emerge yesterday as traumatised children told horrific tales of stabbed babies and brutal rapes.

It has also emerged that scores of the 323 who died - including many children - had been shot in the back.

While despairing soldiers and rescue workers moved among the growing pile of body bags, it was revealed that an 18-month-old baby had been repeatedly stabbed by a black-clad terrorist who had run out of ammunition.

Other survivors told how screaming teenage girls were dragged into rooms adjoining the gymnasium where they were being held and raped by their Chechen captors who chillingly made a video film of their appalling exploits

They said children were forced to drink their own urine and eat the petals off the flowers they had brought their teachers after nearly three days without food or water in the stifling hot gym.

Their stories came as Russian officials warned that the final death toll of the siege of Middle School No 1 at Beslan in North Ossetia - in which up to 1,200 people were held captive - was likely to be more than 400.

The official toll yesterday stood at 323 which included 156 children, 10 Russian soldiers and two emergency service workers - 35 of the hostage-takers were also killed. Last night 434 people were being treated in hospital with 247 children and 85 adults in a critical condition.

A Russian official said six seriously injured children had been taken to Moscow for treatment.

"One of them is a child, just 18 months old, with many knife wounds," he said.

The Chechen terrorists - including two so-called "Black Widows" - had been meticulously planning the hostage-taking for months.

High explosives and ammunition had been smuggled into the building during the summer by rebels disguised as workmen.

[CrackerJack 0]

If that´s all true why dont they show the video of that? Wheres are the pictures?

[CrackerJack 0]

I got my own news site

Quote[/b] ]02/09/2004

OFFICIAL STATEMENT ON THE HOSTAGE TAKING IN SCHOOL IN NORTHERN OSSETIA.

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs categorically rejects attempts of the Russian government to put the responsibility for the hostage taking in school in Beslan (Northern Ossetia) to the leadership of the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria.

The leadership and the Armed Forces of the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria do not have any relation to the hostage taking in Beslan. President Maskhadov and the political and military Chechen command categorically condemn all forms of terrorism.

No matter who is behind these taking children in hostages in Beslan, we categorically condemn this act of terrorism and join the Security Council of the United Nations in calling for the release of the hostages.

At the same time, we deeply regret that the Security Council of the United Nations has never condemned or expressed condolences about the more than 42.000 Chechen children that have been killed in Chechnya at the order of the Russian government.

For ten years Russia has been killing the Chechen nation right in front of the eyes of the all humanity using most barbaric means of state terrorism and genocide. The Security Council of the United Nations and all other international organisations and national governments must either held Russia accountable for her mass and systematic crimes in Chechnya or admit the hypocrisy of their position towards the still ongoing Russian genocide of the Chechen nation.

Press Office

http://www.chechnya-mfa.info/print_news.php?func=detail&par=121

[philcommando 0]

Gollum, that was a cheap shot, do stick to the topic or refrain from further diverting the issue about neo-nazis who are nothing but a bunch of crooks that will be dealt with state laws. Each that pops out will have their heads lobbed off( figuritively) unlike the beasts who are given water and shelter wherever they go by simple minded folks.

CrackerJack:- i dun believe what u are saying!!!! Are u blind???..You may be deaf but the 320 who died heard the words 'Allah Akbar' before they are lost to the world. Are u in a state of denial or trying to lessen the horror of what the muslims have done?

Anyway, jack..have u heard of Gandhi?..knew how he ejected the brits from India and gain for indians independence? When u chosed to use violence to achieve your aims, u already sentenced your own countrymen as well as the combatants to death. Even more despicable when u tacitly allow fringe groups to operate freely to kill non-combatants and wipe clean your hands on further responsibility..despicable scumbags all of them!

I am not here to advocate vigilante action. Anyone who does so will be dealt with state laws and harshly too. However, 320 people who have mourned enuff for the loved ones will pick up their guns, and many more if the so called good muslims dont do anything.

GIVE US NAMES!!!!! Report to the authorities those who stray from preaching tolerance and respect for humanity. Deny the would-be beasts water and shelter anywhere they go. This are just some of the measures u can do to help make the world a safer and better place, not only for us, but our children as well. Let those poor innocent kids whose only crime was to bring a balloon to school and have fun with each other after the long school break..let them pass on at least a meaningful legacy to end the horror among your own kind and not let their death be in vain...for no matter what faith you come from...we all love children.

[Pathy 0]

Quote[/b] ]If that´s all true why dont they show the video of that? Wheres are the pictures?

Don't be stupid, when was the last time a government released a video of people being raped?  

[Bordoy 0]

If that´s all true why dont they show the video of that? Wheres are the pictures?

Are you stupid? The would never release it.

Oh and your news site is a pro-chechyan site. So i couldn't expect any neutrality init.

[CrackerJack 0]

phil what you talking about?

Those good muslims who live in Chechnya and try to live their lives get bombed by russians and men get taken from their homes and tortured in belife that they are rebells.

If you want to blame every muslim for that than you are ingorent. If they didn´t say Allah Akbar then they would say praise jesus, those people didn´t die just because they are catholics and chechen muslims dont like em. This aint a war of religion this is a war of liberation and peace for Chechen people who have a right to have their own country. But people like Basayev turned it around and called it because he wanted help of other muslim countries. State laws? Whos laws? Russian? Go to Chechnya and youll see russian "law" and "justice".

If you could have asked the hostage takers why they did it, most of answers would probably be "you killed my little boy, son and housband" like those is theater hostage takers. Like I said before I do not aprove of killing children that is wrong totally wrong, but I also do not aprove that russians kill thousands and thousands of Chechen children.

Pro chechen? That´s Ministry of Forgein affairs of Chechnya, doesn´t come any better.

[CrackerJack 0]

no Im not stupid but Im pretty sure that russians would take anything against chechnya. Who filmed inside the theather after the shootout in Moskva?

[Foxtrot87 0]

The majority of Chechen people don't want to separate from Russia.

I'm against war in Chechnya and against killing innocent people. Why would i have to die by hands of terrorists? Why did those children die?

Oh yeah, before asking to show the videos of rapings change your avatar, it looks a bit strange in this situation.

Quote[/b] ]Pro chechen? That´s Ministry of Forgein affairs of Chechnya, doesn´t come any better.

That's the same as reading news on Russian government sites only. That site is pro-Chechen, Russian sites are pro-Russian. So who's saying truth in the end?

[Pathy 0]

no Im not stupid but Im pretty sure that russians would take anything against chechnya. Who filmed inside the theather after the shootout in Moskva?

So your saying that if the video existed (which i'm sure it does), the Russian government would release a graphic video of people being raped in order to disgrace Chechnia?

Sorry, but thats the most retarded thing i've heard in ages.

1) They arent going to do this across the survivors and victims families.

2) No government would release even a porno video, let alone something that is an act of rape.

Just because they won't show it, you say it doesnt exist.....well they AREN'T going to show it because of the nature of its content. What is so hard to understand about that?

[CrackerJack 0]

well hell noone likes war, all they want is a free country and there is nothing wrong with it. In russian eyes they are criminals, in american they are muslim Terrorists and in chechen eyes they are their children who want to make their country free and safe just like every other country wants.

Nah I aint gonna change my avtar, it´s two file cabinets trying to get on top of eachother and not anything dirty  

Uuuuh with the video already. Those kind of videos always find their way out, note the Iraq pictures the filming of the theather. Even Pamela Anderson video came out and noone belived it would.

[Apollo 0]

Some reactions fromeuropean press speaking agaisnt putin:

Swiss newspaper Basler Zeitung (Basel, Switzerland) writes: The demands of hostage-takers that Russian troops pull out of Chechnya are absolutely legitimate. At least, negotiations about ending the war could be conducted. Even negotiations about Chechnyas complete withdrawal from the Russian Federation is not a forbidden subject. In spite of obvious fraud, Gerhard Schroeder did not see any «considerable shortcomings during the elections in Chechnya». These statements made by the German Chancellor, who appeared in the role of an apostle of peace during the war in Iraq, do not fit for dialogue in Chechnya, - the newspaper complains.

Danish newspaper Politiken sticks to even more irreconcilable position concerning the crimes against humanity that Putin's Russia is committing: It's far from being the matter of «Russian fight against international terrorism», as Putin is declaring. Arabs used the restless situation in Chechnya, but international terrorism is not the reason for the conflict. If international terrorism must be fought, the same should be done to Russian state terrorism too.

French newspaper Le Figaro compares Bush's policies in Iraq and Putin's policies in Chechnya, and says with indignation that they both act from the position of force.

Swedish periodical Svenska Dagbladet reminds Putin that Chechens do have the right to self-determination.

Parisian Le Monde is outraged about Western politicians supporting the Kremlin's tyrant: After Putin came to power, the situation in Chechnya got worse. Solidarity against terrorism is one thing. But support of 'magician's apprentice' is another thing. Chirac and Schroeder should remember it when expressing their support for Putin.

Austrian newspaper Wiener Zeitung (Vienna) reminds Putin: After the bloody slaughter in Beslan Putin has no choice but to proceed to negotiations with political wing of separatists, which had to take place a long time ago. And this wing is Maskhadov, who is permanently respe

The Times predicts the forthcoming end of Putin's statehood. The newspaper published an article about the events in Beslan with an eloquent heading: «Agony of Mother Russia».

Austrian Die Presse demands that Russian nuclear arsenals are taken under international control, due to instability in the Russian Federation.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]If you give in to their demands that will most likely only lead to more terrorism...

You haven´t read properly....pretend to give in and kill them afterwards.  That was my solution. Not fair...but taking kids as hostages isn´t fair also.

And for the same scenario in a european country. It wouldnt look much different I guess. Noone is prepared for such an amount of hostages but the approach would have been very different. 1st security authorities would have tried to locate the terrorrists with various technical equipment, than negotiation would start to bind some of the forces at a controlablke spot. If negotiations failed (real negotiations, not russian style negotiations that are infact no negotiations as they had to follow Putin´s zero tolerance ideology) there would be use of deadly ranged force on terrorists, means identified targets would be eliminated simultaniously. Meanwhile several team would enter the compund from different spots that cover most of the influence areas terrorists have and take them out in a sweep. 30 terrorists are not that much...the problem is to separate them from hostages prior. By using heatcams and mini cams plus audio feeds from within the building by using laser window mic´s you should be able to locate most of them and pinpoint their positions...even if the are moving. I don´t see such gear with the russian forces, neither at the theatre situation nor at the school. They had no complete scenario picture.

3 days is a long time and I´m wondering why they were not able to localize their targets properly.

A situation with that many hostages is always bull, so I guess they´d try to separate the hostages, or better say a large part of them from the terrorists by giving in to their demands and and take them out when the risk for hostages isn´t that big. So yes, you technically give in...but only to eliminate them later on. I don´t see that as an incentive for terrorists to start further atacks as they would get all killed...and yes I would let them rott for three days in the streets...just like they did so everyone can watch those bastards.

I´m still shocked by the amount of killed ones. I´m not shocked by the situation for the hostages. It is rather clear that 1200 people need to be controlled. So has the environment the hostages are in. Of course this results in a terrible situation for the hostages. But it´s logistically not possible for terrorists to provide them with water, food or other things. Even the windows had to be shut (that´s why most of the kids were nearly naked, because the terrorists were afraid of gas, or sneaking-in forces.

Quote[/b] ]Just because they won't show it, you say it doesnt exist.....well they AREN'T going to show it because of the nature of its content. What is so hard to understand about that?

I don´t believe that story. Sorry.

There were a lot of interviews with hostages but none mentioned such at all.

[Pathy 0]

Even if the motive is good, it doesnt justify the methods...

[Garcia 0]

Quote[/b] ]But if they where so stupid to storm the building full of children and explosives and armed gunmen then they should blaim them selves.

If you think they were stupid, I'm not gonna... So your opinion on this is that the Russian forces should stand there thinking "Hmm...shooting? From the school? Oh, they are just blowing up some 8 year old kid. Oh, look, that 6 year old kid running for his life just got shot in the head. Let's just stay here and look at it. When they are all dead we can blow the whole school and go home and take a good cup of coffee."

wtf was they supposed to do? You say they should give in to their demands...that would only lead to more terrorism because the terrorists then will be encourraged to do it since they know that the russian goverment gave in once, so it is possibly they will give in another time. And ffs, as I've already said, take a look at the situation...you walk into a school with 1000+ ppl, most children, you can't have big hopes of getting out alive! So that would only lead to 12 more terrorists out on the street and possibly more children dead than there is now. And, have you any knowledge at all about what happened? The russians wanted to negotiate more, but the terrorists blew up some civilians...and I think most ppl in this world would look with disgust on the russian goverment if they didn't assault the school.

Quote[/b] ]Gollum, that civilians died yes it´s fair

I really hope that is a spelling mistake, if not...I don't even want to mention my thoughts about you...and if killing civilians is "fair", then let russia just blow up whole chechenya...

Quote[/b] ]What news site is that? Unlike you I take my facts from other sources too. The things I read was that they forced people to eat flowers and not use toilets then beat up men.

Umm...children that was inside there said they had to drink their own urin because the terrorists wouldn't take in food and water. They weren't even allowed to cry or move.

Quote[/b] ]If that´s all true why dont they show the video of that? Wheres are the pictures?

errrrrrrrrrrr...? 1: Who would ever think about releasing such a video??? 2: WHO WOULD EVEN THINK ABOUT WATCHING SUCH A VIDEO?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!