The Iraq thread 4

[Acecombat 0]

Quote[/b] ]All that said I believe a muslim is safer living in America than a non muslim living in the middle east.

I guess thats correct there have been numerous incidents here regarding americans. But that being said americans arent harrassed here in regular life i go out everyday and see a few foreginers everyday working in the same building as my dads but i dont see them being looked upon differently or being treated differently , on a social basis americans here are more free then for example say an arab muslim in america who might get targetted for looking different or like some stereotypical image of terrorist in the mindsets of americans therefore he 'feels' and is treated different.

So the major differences i see is that americans here are likely to simply die in a terrorist attack rather then being treated with contempt by the local populace , in america its the opposite they probably wont kill muslims but their social status will be degraded.

Thats my take but i could be wrong as i am no statistician to have taken a survey and come up with this but its a general observation of mine.

[Ironsight 1]

Quote[/b] ]Zarqawi reported wounded in Iraq

Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the man blamed for some of the bloodiest insurgent attacks in Iraq, has been wounded, according to a militant website.

The militant group Al-Qaeda in Iraq did not give any further details, but called on Muslims to pray for his recovery.

Jordanian-born Zarqawi has claimed scores of attacks against civilians and the security forces, as well as the kidnapping and beheading of foreigners.

The authenticity of the statement could not be verified.

US military officials in Iraq were also unable to confirm the report.

Zarqawi is the most wanted suspect in Iraq and has a US bounty of $25m on his head.

"O nation of Islam... Pray for the healing of our Sheikh Abu Musab al-Zarqawi from an injury he suffered in the path of God," said the statement in the name of his group's information department.

The statement said the injury was a reason to increase attacks on "the enemies of God".

BBC security correspondent Gordon Corera says the language of the statement is consistent with previous messages from Zarqawi followers, but does not appear in the group's normal website.

There have been unconfirmed reports that the one-legged Zarqawi might have been injured, our correspondent says, possibly during a sweep of the Iraq-Syria border by US marines a few weeks ago.

The US military said it captured his driver at a checkpoint in western Iraq in February, but narrowly missed their main target.

I hope he's seriously injured and that he is slowly bleeding to death

[quicksand 0]

Quote[/b] ]I hope he's seriously injured and that he is slowly bleeding to death  

Not that I don't feel similar to you but don't be surprised if in the following days a new Zarqawi's group post would sound like something among this lines:

"Oh,praise Allah for he has answered the hundreads of millions muslims prayers from around the world for our brave leader Zarqawi to be healed.He has since made a miraculous full recovery and is ready to once again be the spear fighting the wrecthed infidels and their apostates allies."

If ture I would compare their atempt to sommething similar it woukld be the release of Saddam photos,a PR strike no more.Zarqawi's group claims the man is in the middle of a fighting facing bombs,bullets etc. and not hiding like a mouse in another country,next Zarqawi is wounded and through devine intervention is healed prooving that he must spearhead jihaad until victory.

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]...but i dont see them being looked upon differently or being treated differently , on a social basis americans here are more free then for example say an arab muslim in america who might get targetted for looking different or like some stereotypical image of terrorist in the mindsets of americans therefore he 'feels' and is treated different.

I would have to disagree on both those statements. While I'm sure S.A. is safer than say Jordan or Iran, if I remember correctly there have been a few incidents. And I'm not sure how easy it would be to get numbers on acts committed against Americans. However, having said that, I'm sure the number of Americans assualted or similiar in S.A. is less than the number of incidents against muslims in America, otherwise we would have heard a lot about it (at least from some new stations).

Tolarence really depends on locations. For example, here in Austin there are a number of foreign students (mainly because of UT) and residents, and I have yet heard of any incidents based on looks or ethnicity (or any incidents at all..Austin is kind of a sleepy burg). I doubt the same could be said in say...rural Alabama for example.

But then again, we're all a bunch of tolarent pinko-commie liberals here in Austin.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]I decided long ago not to respond or debate with you Balschoiw, do to your massive credibility problem.

Haha. What else to expect than that.

I don´t have a "massive credibility problem".

Neither did I write the report quoted in my post.

The only one with a massive credibility problem is you as you obviously don´t know what you are talking about and the only way of butting out you can think of is going for some fishy stunt.

Had to be expected.

[Wilco 944]

Quote[/b] ]All that said I believe a muslim is safer living in America than a non muslim living in the middle east.

I guess thats correct there have been numerous incidents here regarding americans. But that being said americans arent harrassed here in regular life i go out everyday and see a few foreginers everyday working in the same building as my dads but i dont see them being looked upon differently or being treated differently , on a social basis americans here are more free then for example say an arab muslim in america who might get targetted for looking different or like some stereotypical image of terrorist in the mindsets of americans therefore he 'feels' and is treated different.

So the major differences i see is that americans here are likely to simply die in a terrorist attack rather then being treated with contempt by the local populace , in america its the opposite they probably wont kill muslims but their social status will be degraded.

Thats my take but i could be wrong as i am no statistician to have taken a survey and come up with this but its a general observation of mine.

Yet not every muslim is frowned upon, I have quite a few muslim friends that have never come to me to tell me they were harassed in any way.  

Quote[/b] ]But that being said americans arent harrassed here in regular life i go out everyday and see a few foreginers everyday working in the same building as my dads but i dont see them being looked upon differently or being treated differently

Same here most of the time, yet incidents happen, like you've said.

Quote[/b] ]on a social basis americans here are more free then for example say an arab muslim in america who might get targetted for looking different or like some stereotypical image of terrorist in the mindsets of americans therefore he 'feels' and is treated different

 When the Twin Towers were attacked in 2001, we had, I shit/kid you not, some muslims out in the street dancing and praising allah, I saw this with my own eyes while I was walking downtown.  What are we(the people who see this) supposed to think?  I'm specifically asking you because you are arabic, correct?

I believe actions like that are bound to create a stereotypical view on muslims, how could it not?

[Colossus 2]

Haven't found any english newspapers who has this yet (neither tried much)

but it seems like that the US has started a new offensive today, called "New Market".

Apperantly this offensive is going in the town of Haditha in the Anbar-province.

AP has already reported that 3 rebels has been killed.

Source: VG.no (Norwegian)

EDIT:

Found a english version of it. (CNN)

[miles teg 1]

 When the Twin Towers were attacked in 2001, we had, I shit/kid you not, some muslims out in the street dancing and praising allah, I saw this with my own eyes while I was walking downtown.  What are we(the people who see this) supposed to think?  I'm specifically asking you because you are arabic, correct?

I believe actions like that are bound to create a stereotypical view on muslims, how could it not?

Are you serious??   Holy shit, here in the US??  And nobody went and kicked their asses?  In any country that kind of behavior right after an attack on the host country, would have been grounds for a serious ass kicking.  Thats like Americans dancing in the streets of Iraq praising Jesus after hearing that a few thousand civilians died in massive carpet bombing of Fellujah.

Even myself...I rembember right after the 9/11 attack, all I was thinking is that Afghanistan needed to be nuked.  It took a few days before I could think rationally I was so angry.  If I had seen a bunch of Arabs celebrating in the street I would have probably lost it.  What city do you live in?   Let me guess, somewhere up in Michigan? Shit like that you should have reported to the FBI or at least local law enforcement (since the FBI got swamped with calls after the attack). It would not have probably caused any arrests or anything, but it would have put those individuals on a terrorist watch list. If they weren't US citizens likely their visas wouldn't have been renewed either.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[SFWanabe 0]

Quote[/b] ]I guess it´s you who knows nothing...

I decided long ago not to respond or debate with you Balschoiw, do to your massive credibility problem.

Quote[/b] ]Well... not counting the 100k or so Iraqis that bought it.. right? Or the harmless fun/torture of prisoners.. You don't think that's related to 9/11?

Miles and I are discussing a supposed genocide of muslims happening within the united states, not collateral damage in the iraq war.

Quote[/b] ]Please find me this story of non-Muslim Americans standing guard in front of their local mosques.

I'm sorry I can't, I read it way back in 2001, I cannot even remember what paper it was anymore. I hope you can just trust me on that one, I've never lied on this board.

However from one of the stories you posted...

Quote[/b] ]On Monday, community members and church leaders gathered at the center in a show of solidarity. "It is imperative we stand together," said Rabbi Zvi Ish-Shalom of Congregation Har Shalom in Fort Collins. "If a brick is thrown at the Islamic Center, it's the same as if a brick were thrown at the synagogue."

I will admit that perhaps I'm wrong (even though that weakens my credibility immensely here where no ones ever wrong). I guess there has been an increase in attacks on muslims.

So I suppose your right Miles. Americans are now knocked down a few more notches in my eyes. I didn't like them much before, though I did credit them for being a tolerant bunch. I'll be hard pressed to think of anything positive to say about Americans now.

All that said I believe a muslim is safer living in America than a non muslim living in the middle east.

Dude theres no genicide against muslims in the US anymore than there is genicide against blacks in the US.

[Wilco 944]

 When the Twin Towers were attacked in 2001, we had, I shit/kid you not, some muslims out in the street dancing and praising allah, I saw this with my own eyes while I was walking downtown.  What are we(the people who see this) supposed to think?  I'm specifically asking you because you are arabic, correct?

I believe actions like that are bound to create a stereotypical view on muslims, how could it not?

Are you serious??   Holy shit, here in the US??  And nobody went and kicked their asses?  In any country that kind of behavior right after an attack on the host country, would have been grounds for a serious ass kicking.  Thats like Americans dancing in the streets of Iraq praising Jesus after hearing that a few thousand civilians died in massive carpet bombing of Fellujah.

Even myself...I rembember right after the 9/11 attack, all I was thinking is that Afghanistan needed to be nuked.  It took a few days before I could think rationally I was so angry.  If I had seen a bunch of Arabs celebrating in the street I would have probably lost it.  What city do you live in?   Let me guess, somewhere up in Michigan?  Shit like that you should have reported to the FBI or at least local law enforcement (since the FBI got swamped with calls after the attack).  It would not have probably caused any arrests or anything, but it would have put those individuals on a terrorist watch list.  If they weren't US citizens likely their visas wouldn't have been renewed either.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

I did lose it, but I can't go out in public and beat someone down. I live in a quiet town in Virginia, yet there is a minority of muslims, not as large as the spanish minority though. To see an act like this certainly does at a stereotype, wouldn't you say?

[Balschoiw 0]

Fuel the fire:

U.S. detains Iraqi Islamic party leader

Quote[/b] ]BAGHDAD, Iraq - U.S. troops detained the head of Iraq's largest Sunni Muslim political party during a house raid early Monday in western Baghdad, a top party official and police said.

Mohsen Abdul Hamid, head of the Iraqi Islamic Party, was detained by American soldiers along with his three sons and four guards, said party-secretary-general Ayad al-Samarei. U.S. military officials could not immediately confirm the detentions.

Al-Samarei said American soldiers raided Hamid's home at around 6 a.m. and confiscated various items, including a computer.

"This is a provocative and foolish act and this is part of the pressure exerted on the party," he said.

"At the time when the Americans say they are keen on real Sunni participation, they are now arresting the head of the only Sunni party that calls for a peaceful solution and have participated in the political process," he added.

In a statement, the party demanded Hamid's immediate release, saying he "represents a large sector of the Iraqi people."

"This irresponsible behavior will only complicate the situation," the party statement said.

Sunni Muslims were Iraq's dominant community under Saddam Hussein, but they have lost their influence since the dictator's ouster two years ago and the country's predominant Shiite community gained political power.

The country's raging insurgency is believed to be driven mainly from disaffected Iraqi Sunnis and extremist Islamists from neighboring, predominantly Sunni Arab states.

Tensions have been high in recent weeks during a spate of violence, some which has demonstrated Sunni-Shiite tensions. Sunni and Shiite religious leaders have been trading accusations against each other's communities amid the killings of hundreds of people, including Shiite and Sunni clerics.

Hamid, aged in his late 60s, is regarded as a moderate Islamic leader. He was a member of the now dissolved U.S.-appointed Iraqi Governing Council and and has been involved with the party since the 1970s and headed it since 2003.

Quite an excellent decision to imprison that guy

while another booms hit the country:

Suicide Bombers in Attack on Iraqi Police

Quote[/b] ]Twin suicide bombers blew themselves up today in a crowd of about 500 police officers, killing at least 20 people, as militants escalated their fight against government forces who have launched an operation to quash the insurgency in Iraq’s capital.

The renewed attacks came a day after Iraqi police fought pitched battles with insurgents as thousands of security forces backed by American troops began sweeping through Baghdad’s streets in Operation Lightning, designed to catch militants responsible for killing more than 740 people since Iraq’s new government was announced in late April.

In a move that could further fuel a seething sectarian crisis, US troops detained the head of Iraq’s largest Sunni Muslim political party during a house raid in western Baghdad early today, a top party official and police said.

Mohsen Abdul Hamid, head of the Iraqi Islamic Party, was detained by American soldiers along with his three sons and four guards, said party-secretary-general Ayad al-Samarei. US military officials could not immediately confirm the detentions.

The party had in recent weeks taken steps to become more involved in the political process following what essentially amounted to a boycott of political life by the group. Sunni Muslim Arabs are also thought to make up the core of an insurgency.

Gunmen also killed a senior Kurdish official, Major General Ahmed al-Barazanchi, the director of internal affairs of Kirkuk province and a former police chief. He died in hospital early today after being shot late on Sunday, said Ismail al-Hadithi, Kirkuk’s deputy governor.

The attacks in Hillah, 60 miles south of Baghdad, took place at about 9:15 a.m. (0615BST) when two suicide bombers wearing explosive belts blew themselves up in the middle of group of policemen demonstrating outside the governor’s office, staggering the blasts to maximise death.

Captain Muthana Khalid Ali, of the Hillah police, said the officers had gathered outside the mayor’s office to protest at a government decision to disband their special forces unit.

“The first explosion occurred in the middle of the demonstration in front of the mayor’s office and the second one took place less than one minute later and about 100 yards away from the first one just near to the demonstration. Then I just saw a ball of fire and flying pieces of flesh. After that, confused policemen started firing into the air,†he said.

Iraqi police and soldiers immediately cordoned off the area, a scene of devastation where pieces of flesh and slabs of tissue were spattered amid pools of blood. Shoes and pieces of clothes worn by the victims were flung across the road.

The blasts blew out windows of the mayor’s office, a courthouse and school, covering the road with shards of glass and rubble. Emergency service workers picked up pieces of flesh and limbs and placed them into pick-up trucks.

Hillah was the site of the deadliest single attack since the fall of Saddam Hussein, a February 28 suicide car bombing against police recruits that killed 125 people.

In attacks that took place in Baghdad and other parts of Iraq, insurgents killed at least 30 people on Sunday, including a British soldier.

Abu Musab al-Zarqawi’s al Qaida in Iraq claimed responsibility for nearly all the attacks in internet statements that could not be independently verified.

In their biggest coup of Operation Lightning, Iraqi and US soldiers arrested a former general in Saddam Hussein’s intelligence service who was also a member of his Fedayeen secret police during a raid in western Baghdad, the scene of some of Sunday’s heaviest fighting.

As fighting raged in Baghdad’s western neighbourhoods on Sunday, Iraq’s freshly minted MPs pounded out their first agreement on the 15 basic articles to guide their new constitution – including democracy, federalism, separation of powers and making Islam the state religion.

Premier Ibrahim al-Jaafari’s Shiite-led government said it would not be deterred by the violence that accompanied the first day of the operation.

It was not known how long the operation would last, and its success or failure will be an indication of how long Iraq needs to take control of its own security, a key to any US exit strategy from Iraq.

The first of more than 40,000 soldiers and police, who are being supported by US forces, searched hundreds of vehicles and raided several houses.

“We have fairly aggressive operations that are being run throughout the Baghdad area,†said a senior US military intelligence official. “Basically they are going to sweep Baghdad and make sure that the insurgents are run out of the city.â€

The official said: “Despite an early warning the operation was coming, we are not seeing any indication that insurgents are packing up their bags.â€

US military and Iraqi government officials, including al-Jaafari, have said the operation’s main target is suicide car bombers, most thought to be foreign fighters recruited in the Gulf region and smuggled into Iraq through Syria.

The US military said there were about 143 car and suicide car bombings in May, a new record. That figure was close to an AP count of over 100 since April 28.

“It is the enemy’s precision guided weapon, if you want to look at it that way. It is the way the enemy creates great effects, devastating effects, on the Iraqi civilian population. Because it is the Iraqi civilians that are being killed more by the suicide bombs than by another means of attack in the country,†the intelligence official said.

Military officials believe the insurgency is predominantly Sunni Muslim Arab and comprises about 12,000 to 20,000 people, including supporters, while less than 1,000 carry out daily attacks.

They are motivated either by money, the ideology of Saddam’s outlawed Baathist party, extreme Islamist radicalism – represented by such groups as al-Zarqawi’s – or personal ties, including to family or tribal units taking part in the insurgency.

Cellular in nature, the insurgency is thought to be a broad network that does not have a central command and control structure, according to the official.

Asked if al Qaida was behind the network, the officials said: “That’s the convenient name that everyone wants. I am not sure that in fact is the answer.â€

The recent comments on improved security situation by the TBA are nulliefied by those numbers and frequency of attacks and the insurgents are obviously not willing to give up anytime soon.

Maybe that is why the death penalty was reintroduced to Iraq again...

Iraq reinstitutes judicial death penalty

Quote[/b] ]BAGHDAD, Iraq -- Three men convicted of murder, rape and kidnapping sat before the judge, awaiting their fates. But first they had to face their victims' seething families.

"They broke his arms. They broke his legs. They took out his eyeballs," one woman said at the hearing in the city of Kut, describing what the men had done to her son. "Death penalty. I want the death penalty."

Moments later, the audience got its wish. The three alleged members of the insurgent group Ansar al-Sunna Army were condemned to be hanged "in the next 10 days," according to the sentence imposed by the special criminal court.

In a show of force the Iraqi government hopes will help quell the insurgency, Iraq will soon carry out its first judicial executions since the fall of Saddam Hussein. And despite objections raised by other countries and international human rights groups, the Iraqi public, by most accounts, is welcoming their return.

"Before, the criminals thought that they would go to jail and a few months later they would be released," said Abu Muhammad, owner of Kuwait Money Exchange Co. "But now, this will stop them."

In Hussein's Iraq, execution was commonly used to suppress political dissent, and the death penalty was a punishment for 114 different crimes. After the invasion of Iraq in 2003, the U.S. administrator for Iraq, Paul Bremer, suspended capital punishment, declaring that "the former regime used certain provisions of the penal code as a means of oppression, in violation of internationally acknowledged human rights."

Iraq's interim government revived the death penalty last August for a smaller set of violent crimes, as well as drug trafficking. The decision is believed to have been motivated by the desire to execute the now-captive Hussein, who is expected to be tried by a special tribunal this summer.

"I am waiting for the day to see Saddam hanged on TV," said Salam Naji, 52, owner of a Baghdad furniture shop. "He is behind all this violence and killings."

Now, the government has pledged to make broader use of the death penalty, as it struggles to suppress an insurgency that has taken more than 600 lives in the past month.

Will the death penalty applied to foreign troops convicted of murder in Iraq also ?

If the mob wants it....

[SFWanabe 0]

Quote[/b] ]Will the death penalty applied to foreign troops convicted of murder in Iraq also ?

I would think so.

[EiZei 0]

Quote[/b] ]Will the death penalty applied to foreign troops convicted of murder in Iraq also ?

I would think so.

This is probably why bushie & co arranged that little immunity deal some time ago..

[Balschoiw 0]

Oops, we did it again...

Quote[/b] ]BAGHDAD, May 30: US forces in Baghdad admitted an embarrassing mistake on Monday when they released Sunni leader Mohsen Abdel Hamid after detaining him during a morning raid on his home. The incident sparked a sharp reaction from Iraq’s President Jalal Talabani, while the government was also angry about the wrongful arrest of a senior leader at a time when it is bidding to integrate Sunnis into political life.

“This morning coalition forces detained and interviewed Mohsen Abdel Hamid. Following the interview it was determined that he was detained by mistake and should be released,†a statement issued by the US military said.

“Coalition forces regret any inconvenience and acknowledge Mr Hamid’s cooperation in resolving this matter.†The leader of the Islamic Party had been hooded and taken from his home along with his three sons before dawn by US troops, according to senior party official Alaa Makki. No reason was given for the detention.

But the fate of his sons remained unclear.

“They have told me my sons have been freed but I have yet to see them,†Mr Hamid told journalists at his home.

Following the US statement, Prime Minister Ibrahim al Jaafari’s cabinet issued a statement which said: “The Iraqi government welcomes the news of Abdel Hamid’s release and stresses its deep concern about the detention of senior political figures who support the political process and Sunni participation in it.â€

“The government will try to establish who was behind this detention and condemns those who try to sow discord between the Iraqi people ... and who seek to exclude Sunnis from the political process.â€

President Jalal Talabani’s office had earlier condemned the detention in a statement and pressed for Mr Hamid’s release. President Talabani expressed surprise at the action ‘and called for his immediate release’, said a statement.

“The Presidential Council has not been consulted ... and feels that treating a political personality of this level in such an arbitrary way is unacceptable.â€

Mr Hamid had a hood pushed over his head and was taken away after US troops broke windows in his home, Mr Makki said. A party statement issued later said: “American leaders claim to seek Sunni participation in the political process, but use searches, arrests and violations of human rights to reach that goal.â€

All the more surprising, Mr Makki added, was that the action came a day after Iraqi government spokesman Leith Kubba had welcomed a statement by the Sunni party against violence threatening the country’s fledgling democracy and social fabric. The statement had also warned the government against transforming security forces into an instrument of repression. —AFP

Another "we are investigating" case.

On another spot in Iraq, the situation looks calm but

obviously it´s calm because of the wrong reasons:

Basra out of control, says chief of police

Quote[/b] ]The chief of police in Basra admitted yesterday that he had effectively lost control of three-quarters of his officers and that sectarian militias had infiltrated the force and were using their posts to assassinate opponents.

Speaking to the Guardian, General Hassan al-Sade said half of his 13,750-strong force was secretly working for political parties in Iraq's second city and that some officers were involved in ambushes.

Other officers were politically neutral but had no interest in policing and did not follow his orders, he told the Guardian.

Article continues

"I trust 25% of my force, no more."

The claim jarred with Basra's reputation as an oasis of stability and security and underlined the burgeoning influence of Shia militias in southern Iraq.

"The militias are the real power in Basra and they are made up of criminals and bad people," said the general.

"To defeat them I would need to use 75% of my force, but I can rely on only a quarter."

In fact the port city, part of the British zone, is remarkably peaceful. It is largely untouched by the insurgency and crimes such as kidnapping and theft have ebbed since the chaotic months after the March 2003 invasion.

In marked contrast to Baghdad, razor wire and blast walls are uncommon in Basra and instead of cowering indoors after dark families take strolls along the corniche.

But Gen Sade said the tranquillity had been bought by ceding authority to conservative Islamic parties and turning a blind eye to their militias' corruption scams and hit squads.

A former officer in Saddam Hussein's marine special forces, he was chosen to lead Basra's police force by the previous government headed by Ayad Allawi and he started the job five months ago.

He praised the establishment of a competent 530-strong tactical support unit and claimed that 90% of ordinary crime was detected.

But he was frustrated that a weak, fledgling state left him powerless to purge his force of members of Iraq's two main rival Shia militias: Moqtada al-Sadr's Mahdi army and the Badr Brigade of the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq (Sciri).

Sciri is one of the dominant parties in the Shia-led government in Baghdad and Mr Sadr, a radical cleric, has become a mainstream political player since leading two uprisings against occupation forces last year.

Both groups have been implicated in targeting officials from Saddam's ousted regime. Since such people tend to be Sunni Arabs, the score settling is often perceived as sectarian.

"Some of the police are involved in assassinations," said Gen Sade. "I am trying to sort this out, for example by putting numbers on police cars so they can be identified."

In March, police watched impassively as their friends in the Mahdi army members beat up scores of university students at a picnic deemed immoral because music was played and couples mingled. Gen Sade identified the officers, but did not punish them for fear of provoking the militia.

If there is trouble at Basra, university staff still phone the police, said Professor Saleh Najim, dean of the engineering college. "But you can't be sure they will do their duty."

The police chief felt cut off from his superiors at the interior ministry in Baghdad and lamented that a government commission was forcing some of his best officers to resign over alleged links with the ousted regime. He did not know how long he would keep his job.

Colin Smith, a deputy chief constable and Britain's senior police adviser in Iraq, said the Basra force's ability to patrol and investigate crimes was an "exponential development" from two years ago and he expected improvements to accelerate.

"I'm optimistic. It's a five to 10 year project, it won't be overnight," he said.

He criticised previous British and American trainers for setting the bar too high for a force being built from scratch. "Too often we have given the Iraqis plans that don't work. We still don't have an Iraq police strategy."

For example police stations were given expensive cameras to photograph suspects without heed to the Iraqis' difficulty in replacing the batteries, said Mr Smith.

"A lot of the time we're not moving forward but rectifying the mistakes made in the past two years."

That´s definately not the right direction they are moving to. A policeforce that is infiltrated by individuals who have some very different goals on their list reminds me of the days prior Invasion 2.

After reading this article the good/bad definition seems to be a bit out of tune:

US, UK tried to provoke Saddam before war

Quote[/b] ] LONDON: British and the US used their bombing attacks on Iraq prior to the 2003 invasion to try and provoke Saddam Hussein's regime into giving them an excuse to go to war, a report said on Sunday. As early as mid-2002, then-British defence minister Geoff Hoon told a key government meeting that US forces had begun 'spikes of activity' to put pressure on the regime, the Sunday Times said.

The newspaper printed minutes from a gathering of prime minister Tony Blair and his war cabinet in July 2002 on the build-up to a possible conflict.

According to the minutes, Blair was told that in Washington, war was even then seen as 'inevitable' and that "the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy."

Blair was the US's staunchest ally in the later invasion of Iraq, launched in March 2003.

The Sunday Times said separate information obtained by the Liberal Democrats, a British Opposition party which opposed the Iraq war, showed that British and US planes dropped twice as many bombs on Iraq in the second half of 2002 as they did during the whole of 2001. The minutes of the 2002 meeting also show British ministers' efforts to justify full-scale military action. "It seemed clear that (US president George W) Bush had made up his mind to take military action, even if the timing was not yet decided,"they said.

"But the case was thin. Saddam was not threatening his neighbours, and his WMD capability was less than that of Libya, North Korea or Iran. "We should work up a plan for an ultimatum to Saddam to allow back in the UN weapons inspectors. This would also help with the legal justification for the use of force."

Meanwhile, Gen Richard Myers, chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, said on Sunday that the recent publication of pictures of ousted Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein in his underwear was inappropriate and that an investigation was continuing.

"I have not seen what we found out yet,"Myers said in an interview with Fox News on Sunday. "I think we're still in the middle of that investigation. "We need to find out because it is not appropriate to take pictures like that."

Asked whether the US knew who took the pictures of Saddam, first published in the British tabloid the Sun, Gen Myers said: "No, we do not."The pictures, which also ran in the New York Post, another tabloid owned by media mogul Rupert Murdoch, drew protests from human rights and Muslim groups, who complained they violated the Geneva Conventions over the treatment of prisoners.

It´s still what it ever was, a made-up war with made-up reasons and now we learn that peace was never an option for Bush or Blair. They were the agressors and wanted to push their war with every method available.

And yes, "investigating" once more....

[ralphwiggum 6]

.

http://news.yahoo.com/s....wN3bA--

not surprising, given that other captives were killed

Quote[/b] ]BAGHDAD, Iraq - U.S. and Iraqi troops battled foreign fighters near the Syrian border and found the body of Anbar province's missing governor, the highest-ranking Iraqi official kidnapped since the fall of Saddam Hussein, authorities said Tuesday.

[Crazysheep 1]

Has anyone heard of audioscrobbler? It's this thing that chronicles peoples listening habits and you can look at different countries.

It's interesting to look at Iraqs listening habits, which seem to show dissapointment as well as anger; popular song titles include "we looked like giants," "born to kill," "fuck america," "swansong," "things aren't so beautiful now," "brand new colony." I think it's interesting anyway.

http://www.audioscrobbler.com/place/Iraq

[EiZei 0]

Has anyone heard of audioscrobbler? It's this thing that chronicles peoples listening habits and you can look at different countries.

It's interesting to look at Iraqs listening habits, which seem to show dissapointment as well as anger; popular song titles include "we looked like giants," "born to kill," "fuck america," "swansong," "things aren't so beautiful now," "brand new colony." I think it's interesting anyway.

http://www.audioscrobbler.com/place/Iraq

You do realize that statistic consists of 2 guys right?

[Crazysheep 1]

Oh...

[Balschoiw 0]

We´ve had reports, now we have an overview:

Mission accomplished, WMD production sites missing:

U.N.: Weapons Equipment Missing in Iraq

Quote[/b] ]UNITED NATIONS - U.N. satellite imagery experts have determined that material that could be used to make biological or chemical weapons and banned long-range missiles has been removed from 109 sites in

Iraq, U.N. weapons inspectors said in a report obtained Thursday.

U.N. inspectors have been blocked from returning to Iraq since the U.S.-led war in 2003 so they have been using satellite photos to see what happened to the sites that were subject to U.N. monitoring because their equipment had both civilian and military uses.

In the report to the U.N. Security Council, acting chief weapons inspector Demetrius Perricos said he's reached no conclusions about who removed the items or where they went. He said it could have been moved elsewhere in Iraq, sold as scrap, melted down or purchased.

He said the missing material can be used for legitimate purposes. "However, they can also be utilized for prohibited purposes if in a good state of repair."

He said imagery analysts have identified 109 sites that have been emptied of equipment to varying degrees, up from 90 reported in March.

The report also provided much more detail about the percentage of items no longer at the places where U.N. inspectors monitored them.

From the imagery analysis, Perricos said analysts at the U.N. Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission which he heads have concluded that biological sites were less damaged than chemical and missile sites.

The commission, known as UNMOVIC, previously reported the discovery of some equipment and material from the sites in scrapyards in Jordan and the Dutch port of Rotterdam.

Perricos said analysts found, for example, that 53 of the 98 vessels that could be used for a wide range of chemical reactions had disappeared. "Due to its characteristics, this equipment can be used for the production of both commercial chemicals and chemical warfare agents," he said.

The report said 3,380 valves, 107 pumps, and more than 7.8 miles of pipes were known to have been located at the 39 chemical sites.

A third of the chemical items removed came from the Qaa Qaa industrial complex south of Baghdad which the report said "was among the sites possessing the highest number of dual-use production equipment," whose fate is now unknown." Significant quantities of missing material were also located at the Fallujah II and Fallujah III facilities north of the city, which was besieged last year.

Before the first

Gulf War in 1991, those facilities played a major part in the production of precursors for Iraq's chemical warfare program.

The percentages of missing biological equipment from 12 sites were much smaller — no higher than 10 percent.

The report said 37 of 405 fermenters ranging in size from 2 gallons to 1,250 gallons had been removed. Those could be used to produce pharmaceuticals and vaccines as well as biological warfare agents such as anthrax.

The largest percentages of missing items were at the 58 missile facilities, which include some of the key production sites for both solid and liquid propellant missiles, the report said.

For example, 289 of the 340 pieces of equipment to produce missiles — about 85 percent — had been removed, it said.

At the Kadhimiyah and Al Samoud factory sites in suburban Baghdad, where the report said airframes and engines for liquid propellant missiles were manufactured and final assembly was carried out, "all equipment and missile components have been removed."

UNMOVIC is the outgrowth of a U.N. inspections process created after the 1991 Gulf War in which invading Iraqi forces were ousted from Kuwait. Its staff are considered the only multinational weapons experts specifically trained in biological weapons and missile disarmament.

The report noted that the commissioners who advise UNMOVIC again raised questions about its future. Iraq has called for its Security Council mandate to be terminated because UNMOVIC is funded from past Iraqi oil sales and it wants to be treated like other countries, but the council has not taken up the issue.

France's U.N. Ambassador Jean-Marc de La Sabliere said Thursday the commission's expertise "should not be lost for the international community."

Great job. This definately made the world a safer place. Not.

While the massive troop engagement doesn´t hinder Insurgents much in Baghdad.

Insurgents Kill 38 in Attacks in Iraq

Quote[/b] ]BAGHDAD, Iraq - Insurgents killed 38 people in a series of rapid-fire attacks Thursday, including three suicide car bombings within an hour and a drive-by shooting at a busy Baghdad market that ratcheted up the bloody campaign to undermine

Iraq's government.

Iraq's interior minister, meanwhile, claimed the government offensive seeking to root out rebels in Baghdad had scored big gains, saying this week's sweep by Iraqi soldiers and police captured 700 suspected insurgents and killed 28 militants.

Iraqi and U.S. forces have stepped up operations to answer an insurgent onslaught that has killed at least 814 people since Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari announced his Cabinet five weeks ago, but militants staged deadly attacks across a swath of northern Iraq.

In Tuz Khormato, a popular highway stop 55 miles south of the oil-rich town of Kirkuk, a suicide car bomber targeted bodyguards for Iraq's Kurdish deputy prime minister as they ate at a restaurant. The blast killed 12 people.

"I was sitting inside my restaurant when about six cars parked nearby and their passengers came inside and ordered food," owner Ahmed al-Dawoudi said. "Seconds later, I heard a big explosion and the restaurant was turned into twisted wreckage and rubble. Blood and pieces of flesh were everywhere."

Earlier in Kirkuk, a suicide car bomber trying to attack a convoy of civilian contract workers killed a young boy and three other Iraqi bystanders and wounded 11 people.

Another suicide bomber killed four people and wounded four in Baqouba, about 35 miles northeast of Baghdad. In the northern city of Mosul, two parked motorcycles rigged with bombs blew up near a coffee shop, killing five Iraqis and wounding 13.

In the capital, men in three speeding cars sprayed gunfire into a crowded market in the northern neighborhood of Hurriyah, killing nine people, the interior and defense ministries said. Two other attacks in the Baghdad area killed four people and injured three.

As part of the campaign agai nst insurgents, Iraq's government launched in Baghdad on Sunday the biggest Iraqi offensive since

Saddam Hussein's fall two years ago.

Police patrols and checkpoints are increasingly visible around Baghdad's dusty streets as the operation intensifies.

Officials say the operation to cordon off the city of 6 million people involves 40,000 soldiers and police, though not all are manning positions at any one time. Before the offensive, authorities controlled only eight of Baghdad's 23 entrances, Interior Minister Bayan Jabr said.

"By organizing our forces and devising security plans, we will be able in the next few months to significantly reduce terrorism and killings," Jabr said.

Citing figures obtained from an Interior Ministry research center, Jabr said some 12,000 Iraqi civilians were killed during the past 18 months, including more than 10,000 Shiites. But he said he analyzed the figures on the basis of areas where the victims lived, not data explicitly stating the branch of Islam they belong.

He said the Baghdad operation had netted at least 700 people he labeled "terrorists" and killed 28 rebels in firefights. In addition, 118 criminal suspects had been arrested, he said.

"We believe the security situation has improved by 60 percent since Operation Lightning began," Jabr said.

Among those captured in Baghdad is the suspected leader of the National Islamic Resistance/1920 Revolution Brigade terror group, the Defense Ministry said.

Angry leaders of the Sunni Arab minority complained Thursday that their community was being targeted by the crackdown and threatened to boycott the drafting of Iraq's new constitution — a crucial document U.S. officials hope will help stabilize Iraq.

"I swear by God that we'll demand none from now on to lay down his weapon," yelled Osam Al-Rawi, head of the Iraqi teachers union and representative of the influential Association of Muslim Scholars, a Sunni group thought to be close to the insurgency.

However, in a heartening sign, Sunni leaders did not slam the door on al-Jaafari's efforts to bring them back into the political fold.

Members of the constitutional committee met with about 70 Sunnis, including from the Iraqi Islamic Party and the Association of Muslim Scholars, to discuss parliament's offer for 13 Sunnis to represent the minority on the 55-member charter panel. Just two Sunni Arabs are on the body now.

This week's mistaken arrest of Iraqi Islamic Party leader Mohsen Abdul-Hamid has drawn criticism. But Abdul-Hamid said despite his anger, he was not rejecting the political process.

"We all are convinced, whether the government, occupation forces or political parties, that channels should be opened with the Iraqi Islamic national resistance, which defends Iraq and its independence," he said, adding it was "very useful to reach out and find solutions for ending the occupation and stop the blood letting."

In other developments Thursday:

_Sheik Safwan Ali Farhan, a senior member of the Shiite Badr Brigade militia, died after being shot Monday in eastern Baghdad, police said.

_The U.S. military said two American soldiers were killed in combat near Ramadi and another died of non-battle injuries in Kirkuk on Wednesday. At least 1,667 U.S. military members have died since the war began in March 2003, according to an Associated Press count.

[SFWanabe 0]

Quote[/b] ]BAGHDAD, Iraq (June 4) - Saddam Hussein's morale has plummeted as the gravity of the war crimes charges he faces sinks in, the judge who will oversee his trial said, and an Iraqi regarded as a top terror leader was arrested Saturday in northern Iraq.

Iraqi and U.S. soldiers also kept up their pressure against suspected insurgents south of Baghdad, with more than 800 troops, mainly Iraqis, cordoning off districts in Latifiyah, a city in an especially violent region dubbed the Triangle of Death.

The U.S. military believes insurgents behind almost daily deadly attacks in Baghdad use districts on its southern edge as staging areas.

"For two years I have been suffering from these terrorists, now it is my time," Brig. Gen. Mohammed Essa Baher, an Iraqi army commander from the region whose two sons had been killed by insurgents, said on the eve of Saturday's offensive.

Eight people died Friday from insurgent attacks around the country, bringing to at least 830 the number killed since the Shiite-led government took office April 28 - an average of 23 deaths a day, not counting rebels, who are drawn from multiple groups, including Islamic extremists and Saddam loyalists.

A suicide car bomber attacked a police patrol in western Baghdad's Amil neighborhood Saturday, seriously wounding two policemen and setting two vehicles ablaze, Capt. Talib Thamir said.

Two other police officers were injured after gunmen opened fire on their patrol in Baghdad's western Ghazaliya neighborhood, while police found the body of an unidentified man who had been bound and shot in the head in an eastern part of the capital.

In the northern city of Irbil, Kurdistan's 111-member regional assembly Saturday opened its first session since the Jan. 30 national elections that swept long-oppressed Shiites and Kurds to power. The session is expected to deal with the future of oil-rich Kirkuk, the drafting of the national constitution and relations with the central government in Baghdad.

The judge in Saddam's trial, Raid Juhi, told the London-based Asharq al-Awsat newspaper in an interview that the ousted president and some of the 11 other detained former regime figures are facing "12 cases" carrying punishments from life in jail to the death penalty.

"The ousted president has suffered a collapse in his morale because he understands the extent of the charges against him and because he's certain that he will stand trial before an impartial court," Juhi was quoted as saying.

Saddam, who is being held in a U.S.-run detention facility in Baghdad, was captured in December 2003 and faces charges including killing rival politicians during his 30-year rule, gassing Kurds, invading Kuwait in 1990 and suppressing Kurdish and Shiite uprisings the next year.

No date has been set for the start of his trial, but Juhi said the former dictator was expected to face the tribunal within two months. Juhi said Saddam will be tried alone in some cases and alongside other detainees in others.

Saddam's lawyer Khalil al-Duleimi, however, told The Associated Press that his client was in high spirits and that he was not aware of the 12 cases the judge referred to.

"The last time I met Saddam was in late April and his spirits were very high," al-Duleimi said.

In a coup for Iraqi security forces, a terror suspect known as Mullah Mahdi was detained early Saturday along with his brother, three other Iraqis and a non-Iraqi Arab national in eastern Mosul, 225 miles northwest of Baghdad, Iraqi army Maj. Gen. Khalil Ahmed al-Obeidi said.

Al-Obeidi said the suspect was captured after a brief clash in eastern Mosul. Mullah Mahdi is accused of affiliation with the Ansar al-Sunnah Army, one of Iraq's most feared terror groups, and had links to the Syrian intelligence service.

"He was wanted for almost all car bombs, assassinations of high officials, beheadings of Iraqi policemen and soldiers and for launching attacks against multi-national forces," al-Obeidi said.

On Friday, the Association of Muslim Scholars, an influential Sunni group with ties to some insurgents, called for an end to a weeklong counterinsurgency offensive in Baghdad, saying it overwhelmingly targets members of their religious minority and has led to the detention of hundreds of people.

The interior minister has said at least 700 suspected insurgents have been rounded up in the sweep, known as Operation Lightning, which also has killed 28 militants.

06/04/05 09:49 EDT

Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. All active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL.

Awww Saddam is sad lets all hug him.

[Colossus 2]

Quote[/b] ]

US finds 'insurgent lair' in Iraq

American troops in Iraq have discovered a series of underground bunkers used by insurgents, the US military says.

A spokesman said the complex in an abandoned quarry in the

restive province of Anbar covered an area the size of four

football pitches.

The bunkers are said to contain a large stockpile of weapons

and living areas with air conditioning and showers.

Meanwhile, Iraqi authorities said they had arrested an

insurgency leader and key al-Qaeda figure in Mosul.

The arms cache was one of 50 found in recent days in Anbar

province, west of Baghdad, the spokesman said.

Tips from locals and information from detainees had helped to

identify the locations uncovered in the ongoing operation, the

spokesman said.

He said nobody was in the underground complex near the

town of Karma when it was found.

Inside they discovered weapons, ammunition, black uniforms

and ski masks, night vision goggles and fully-charged mobile

phones.

The complex also contained four furnished living spaces and a

kitchen with fresh food, the spokesman said.

US and Iraqi forces continue to battle insurgents in the vast

province following a major assault on rebels in Falluja last

November.

Mosul arrests

Also on Sunday, the Iraqi government announced the arrest

of Mutlaq Mahmoud Mutlaq Abdullah, also known as Abu Raad,

in the northern city of Mosul.

The government said he was a facilitator and financer for Abu

Talha, the alleged leader of al-Qaeda's operation in Mosul,

and therefore closely linked to Iraq's most wanted militant,

Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

It was the second major arrest announced in Mosul in two

days.

On Saturday, police said they had captured Mahdi Moussa

al-abouri, also known as Mullah Mahdi, who allegedly headed

the Mosul cell of the radical Islamist group Ansar al-Sunna.

The group has been blamed for many deadly attacks in Iraq,

including a suicide attack on a US military base near Mosul in

December that left 22 people dead.

A defence ministry spokesman said Mullah Mahdi was "one of

the most dangerous terrorists in the country".

Still no bionical weapons mr. President.

[SFWanabe 0]

They're all in Syria

[SFWanabe 0]

Saddam's trial is expected to be within 2 months!!!!!

[baff 0]

I see they have cut down the number of charges to a mere 12.

I think they dropped the "double parking" one.

Given that he is going to be found guilty and sentenced to death anyway, why waste all that time and money on a "trial"?

It just makes a mockery of U.S. justice.

I have to wonder what they beleive the point of the exercise is?

[Donnervogel 0]

I see they have cut down the number of charges to a mere 12.

I think they dropped the "double parking" one.

Given that he is going to be found guilty and sentenced to death anyway, why waste all that time and money on a "trial"?

It just makes a mockery of U.S. justice.

I have to wonder what they beleive the point of the exercise is?

it's the Iraqi justice that leads the trial against Saddam and it's there to show that Iraqis are now civilised and democratic and don't just execute people like Saddam did ;)