The Iraq thread 4

[sputnik monroe 102]

Forget it Ace you're unreasonable. Go on ahead believing in your fictional version of history. I guess it's just so much easier for some people to believe that there were "good" guys and "bad" guys involved in the crusades, when in fact they were all the same.

I suppose modern events are more easy to handle and understand for some if they can just chock it up to "Oh well Islam was a peaceful religion until the crusades." The problem with that view is that it's pure fiction plain and simple. The early muslims were an expansionist warlike people long before the crusades.

Why do you look the other way when it comes to the Jihads of the middle ages? To you Spain doesn't matter, the fall of Constantinople doesn't matter, none of the Muslim conquest and crusades ever happened as far as your selective memory is concerned.

[Akira 0]

I think you miss the point completely.

No one said that there were "goody toshoes Jihadist" and invite you to point out exactly where someone did say that.

This conversation is completely about Ann Coulter and her racist views, not a debate about Crusades=Bad,Islam=Good.

Avon then took it off on a different tangent which it was not meant to go.

EDIT: And I believe Ace's comment is directed at the fact that he just got saying can we get back on topic (ie Iraq). Not whatever you took it to mean.

[Baphomet 0]

Well thanks goes to Denoir for bringing up that quote so I didn't have to go searching for it. However yeah. That's what my comment was alluding to.

[quicksand 0]

Precise insurgents intelligence makes everybody vulnerable

Quote[/b] ]As the euphoria over the election dies away, the Iraqi resistance is seeking to eliminate anyone working with the US or the interim government.

And it is easy to get killed in Baghdad. A small mistake is often enough. A convoy of Kurdish officials took a wrong turning into Haifa Street yesterday, a resistance stronghold in the heart of the capital. A gun battle quickly erupted as insurgents opened fire. Soon, black smoke was rising from burning vehicles. The sound of shooting echoed across the centre of the city. By the time the fighting was over, three officials from the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan, part of the present government, were dead.

The insurgents' intelligence is often chillingly accurate. At 7.45am yesterday, armed men kidnapped an interior ministry colonel called Riyadh Katei Illawi, dragging him from his car after he left his house in the al-Dora district of south Baghdad to go to work. As a middle-ranking official it is surprising he was still living in Dora, an area partly controlled by the insurgents.

Fifteen minutes later in the port city of Basra, at the other end of Iraq, an Iraqi television correspondent and his six-year-old son were shot dead by gunmen. Abdul Hussein Khazaal worked for al-Hura TV, an American-funded channel set up to compete with al-Jazeera. Muslim clerics had denounced its output as American propaganda. President George Bush claimed it was created to "cut through the hateful propaganda that fills the airwaves in the Muslim world."

Mr Khazaal had just left his house and was standing by his car. He had two bodyguards. Instead of driving off, he remembered something he had left in his house and his guards went to get it. It was a fatal delay. A car filled with gunmen drove up and opened up on him and his son.

Yesterday evening, police in Baghdad said a director in the ministry of culture and housing had been assassinated by gunmen who attacked his car.

The suicide bombs, the attacks on US troops and the set-piece battles in Najaf and Kerbala are widely publicised abroad. The insurgents appear crude though bloodthirsty. But another war of assassinations and kidnappings is proving that the resistance has a well-informed intelligence service. It can identify the most effective personnel on the interim government side and eliminate them.

General Mudher, a burly middle-aged man, is the creator of the police commandos. Wearing camouflage uniform and black ski-masks, the commandos are a lot more warlike than the ordinary police with their elderly weapons and fragile blue and white police cars.

A veteran soldier famous in Iraq for bringing his tank safely from Kuwait back to Baghdad during the 1991 Gulf war, General Mudher recruited and trained this new force. "He was careful about his own security and was always changing his address," said a colleague.

It did not do him much good. Somebody in the resistance decided he posed a real threat. Gunmen attacked his car two months ago and he was shot twice in the back, the bullets just missing his heart. He counts himself lucky to be alive - he counted 150 bullet holes in the remains of his vehicle. Largely recovered from his wounds, he still walks awkwardly and seems to wince with pain when he moves his arms.

It is not difficult to work out where the insurgents' intelligence comes from. The most effective members of the resistance belonged to the old Iraqi army and security services. Many of their former colleagues now serve in the security ministries of the interim government. Information leaks.

The American recipe for making the army and security forces more effective is to embed US training officers in Iraqi units. It is not a welcome move among Iraqi officers. "They keep saying that they don't need more training but better weapons," says Sabah Khadim, a senior adviser in the Interior Ministry. The presence of American soldiers makes the Iraqi soldiers feel that they will be viewed as traitors to their own country by other Iraqis.

The lack of equipment and vehicles is still common, almost two years after the invasion. In the Qadassiya district of Baghdad yesterday police commandos were driving at great speed to an emergency. Their vehicles were elderly white pick-ups.

US officers told some Iraqi units that they would receive tanks. When they arrived, the Iraqi crews were angry to find that they were being given outdated, Soviet-made T-55s.

"The one thing the Americans seem determined about is to retain control of the Iraqi army," said a foreign diplomat in Baghdad. The Americans also fear that one day the weapons they hand over now will be turned against them by Iraqis or will be sold to the resistance.

With the Shia victory in the election, the security ministries could again experience the post-war turmoil largely dealt with by the former Baathist interim Prime Minister, Iyad Allawi. Serving officers fear that the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq, formerly based in Iran and controlled by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, will want jobs in the Interior and Defence Ministries. Nobody expects the wave of assassinations to stop soon.

I think is not only the intelligence to credit.Iraqi National Guardsman are travelling unarmed in civillian buses because US military is afraid they will run away with their weapons.

Iraqi commandos,the pride of the security forces are speeding in rusty pickup trucks.

Iraqi tank crewmen are being accomodated with T55's-I think I will stop wondering by now why dozens are killed daily.

[theavonlady 2]

I think I will stop wondering by now why dozens are killed daily.

Quote[/b] ]IRAQ THE MODEL - Thursday, February 10, 2005

A few days ago, Mithal Al-Alusi; an Iraqi politician and the head of the "Hizb Al-Umma Al-Iraqiya" or the (Iraqi Nation Party) survived an assassination attempt when a group of terrorists attacked him in front of his house but his two young sons and his guard were killed in the attack.

The brave politician, despite his tragic loss made very strong statements during an interview he gave to RFI "Radio free Iraq".

Al-Alusi: Again, the ghosts of death are going out. They are ready to kill a person, ready to kill the peace, ready to kill the victory of Iraqis and their right to life. Again, henchmen of the Ba'ath [Party] and dirty terrorist gangs, Al-Qaeda and others, are going out convinced that they can determine life and death as they desire. Iraq will not die.

My children, three people [in all] -- one of my bodyguards and two of my children -- died as heroes, no differently from other people who find their heroic deaths. But we will not, [i swear] by God, hand Iraq over to murderers and terrorists.

We will pave the road for peace. If [the attackers] thought that by attempting to kill Mithal al-Alusi, the advocates of peace in Iraq will be stopped, then they have made a grave mistake. We will be calling for peace. We will be calling for peace with all neighboring countries [of Iraq]. We will be calling for peace with all countries of the region. And we will be calling for fighting terrorism by any means [and] against all forms [of terror].

They claim that Islam is a message of killing, while Islam is a message of peace. They claim that the principles [of Islam] encourage killing, while the only principles that encourage killing are the principles of the Ba'ath [Party] and of the heathens from Al-Qaeda groupings.

Read the rest of the interview here.

It's worth mentioning that his party's slogan for the electoral campaign was "Don't Let Them Win" and it's obvious who "Them" was in refernce to and I see that Mithal and determined Iraqis like him who are ready to sacrifice are winning even though the evil doers might appear to be inflicting so much damage as to make them look strong.

This reminds me of a situation that happened on elections day last week; an election center was attacked with mortars in Al-Ataifiya (Not Latifiyah) district where one of my closest friends lives. He talked to me on the phone that morning with a tone of amazement in his voice and told me that at the beginning there was panic among the people who lined up to vote but within half an hour after the attack, things came back to normal and the lines became even longer.

The people realized that there could be another attack but that didn't stop them from seizing the moment, the moment of choosing the way of life they want for themselves and their children.

"God, I'm amazed by the bravery of those folks, I was too scared myself but watching the people coming back made me feel strength that I've never felt before" These were my friend's words.

I wonder how long it's going to take the terrorists to understand that we're NOT giving up, no matter what they do to intimidate us, no matter how many pipelines they blow up and no matter how many of us they kill.

Everyday I see the media talking about "body counts" and the "cost of the war". Well, we know that there are innocent people losing their lives and we know that there's a lot of damage going on but it's not like we're discouraged by these losses.

We don't need those who 'weep' for us and count our brothers and friends who have fallen for the sake of freedom but we welcome those who are ready to stand on our side.

We accepted the challenge from day one and we realized that we will have to pay a price for our freedom and the cruelty of the battle hasn't changed that, in fact, Iraqis now are more determined to finish the battle than before, and to win.

- posted by Omar @ 21:12

[Acecombat 0]

I think you miss the point completely.

No one said that there were "goody toshoes Jihadist" and invite you to point out exactly where someone did say that.

This conversation is completely about Ann Coulter and her racist views, not a debate about Crusades=Bad,Islam=Good.

Avon then took it off on a different tangent which it was not meant to go.

EDIT: And I believe Ace's comment is directed at the fact that he just got saying can we get back on topic (ie Iraq). Not whatever you took it to mean.

Ah well i'll have to waste some of my time and clear up this spillover of crap.

@Sputnik:

Hello kind sir but can you point out to me one thing? Where in this whole debate have i mentioned or amde public my 'burning hate' for christainity .

I am part christain , part jew thats what made me muslim , if it wasnt for christanity and judaism there wouldnt have been a ISLAM so dont you even dare try to question my objectivity on it. I respect both those religions and consider them as true religions of past and respect their prophets highly too just like muhammed , something which i dont expect from people of either those religions as they probably consider Islam as a 'fake' so for them even considering islam as a divine religion is a sin. I guess you know now whos objectivity can be questioned on 'hate' for religion now? I do not carry any false pretences for people of these religions as some among them might carry for mine.

Quote[/b] ]What I don't like is how every one conveniently ignores the big opening Jihad that was the birth of Islam.

Hello? Birth of Islam was when Gabriel came to muhammed and informed him of his prophethood , i never knew that was a jihad (war) as well .

And your history is indeed fascinating to read , i will not even bother going in to it or try to correct you AFAIC its a lost cause to debate anything with you.

[Placebo 29]

Stick to discussing Iraq, not debating religions.

[quicksand 0]

Quote[/b] ]Everyday I see the media talking about "body counts" and the "cost of the war". Well, we know that there are innocent people losing their lives and we know that there's a lot of damage going on but it's not like we're discouraged by these losses.

We don't need those who 'weep' for us and count our brothers and friends who have fallen for the sake of freedom but we welcome those who are ready to stand on our side.

The media talks about the cost of war because there is a significant cost of war of which Iraqis are taking the brunt and suffering.

They are doing body counts,because US military's policy is not to do them on the Iraqi side or alteast until things turned out grim and now every "Iraqi insurgent killed while trying to assemble a roadside bomb" gets a nice spot in CentCOM releases..

Quote[/b] ].... to stand on our side

And which side is that?20% of the population supports Kurdish independence,many want a shia dominated sharia imposing government others would like a secular Iraq and a signifcant number supports attacks against US forces.

And then there is this blogger who wants strong ties and a great relationship with USA and Israel with Allawi at it's upfront.

So I ask  you AvonLady since you like to bring his hogwash in this thead,what does "our side" semnificate-Kurdish Independance;Sharia/Secular government or rebellion?

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]So I ask you AvonLady since you like to bring his hogwash in this thead,what does "our side" semnificate-Kurdish Independance;Sharia/Secular government or rebellion?

Why don't you email the guy, seriously. It's his opinion like you have a opinion.

[billybob2002 0]

http://cache.gettyimages.com/comp....85A779B

Quote[/b] ]MOSUL, IRAQ - FEBRUARY 11: In this handout photo, U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld (L) addresses troops at a ceremony honoring Iraqi, U.S., and Algerian troops for their service during the Iraqi elections February 11, 2005 in Mosul, Iraq. Rumsfeld later met with the Iraqi Interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi in Baghdad. (Photo by Sgt. John Franzen/U.S. Army via Getty Images)

Algerian troops...

.......

Quote[/b] ]Iraqi commandos,the pride of the security forces are speeding in rusty pickup trucks.

Which commandos are you talking about? Police ones in the Qadassiya district or these...(taken from last oct)

http://cache.gettyimages.com/thumb....afp&t=1

http://cache.gettyimages.com/thumb....afp&t=1

http://cache.gettyimages.com/thumb....afp&t=1

 

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]US officers told some Iraqi units that they would receive tanks. When they arrived, the Iraqi crews were angry to find that they were being given outdated, Soviet-made T-55s.

Taken from...

http://www.defendamerica.gov/articles/nov2004/a113004d.html

Quote[/b] ]

Iraqi Mechanized Brigade Rolls Out Heavy Equipment

By U.S. Navy Chief Petty Officer Joe Kane

Multinational Security Transition Command - Iraq  

BAGHDAD, Iraq, Nov. 30, 2004 — The Iraqi Army’s 1st Mechanized Brigade rolled out four T55 tanks, 18 multi-purpose armored vehicles and one recovery vehicle, Nov. 22, as the Iraqi government continues the stand up of the country’s initial armed forces armored element.

The armored vehicles - transported from a base near Muqdadiyah in northeastern Iraq to the Taji Military Training Base north of Baghdad after a refurbishment period - are just the initial armored vanguard for the Army with another six T55s and 16 multi-purpose armored vehicles due in the next week. Next week’s shipment will bring the mechanized force’s armored vehicle strength to 10 T55 tanks, 44 multi-purpose armored vehicles and one recovery vehicle.

"You should have seen the looks on people's faces as they recognized that the tanks and armored personnel carriers on the HETTs [heavy equipment transport trucks] were not American tanks but Iraqi [multi-purpose armored vehicles] and T55s," said U.S. Army Col. David Styles, 1st Mechanized Brigade's project officer with Multinational Security Transition Command - Iraq. "We made history today as we assisted the Iraqi Army in returning armor to its rightful place at Taji where it has been absent for several years."

Styles said that getting that much armor transported from place to place can be difficult and dangerous, but necessary to get the 1st Mechanized Brigade up and running. The force should be operational at the platoon and squad level by late Jan. 2005 for use in counterinsurgency operations in the country.

“We are trying to build a new army. And the people are expecting many things from this army. They want peace. They know that the army is a powerful friend when used correctly,†Iraqi 1st Mechanized Brigade commander.

Multinational force partners currently provide operational Iraqi Army units and National Guard forces armored support - most recently in Fallujah’s Operation Al Fajr where five Iraqi Army battalions assaulted the city with U.S. Marine Corps and U.S. Army forces.

The T-55, a Russian-made tank, is a low-silhouette hull tank with a dome-shaped turret mounted over the third road wheel. It has a 100mm rifle-bore main gun, a 6.62mm coaxial machinegun, a 7.62mm bow machinegun, and also includes an infrared gunner’s searchlight for night-fighting capability. Multi-purpose armored vehicles are armored personnel carriers armed with heavy machineguns principally used for the safe transport of infantry to the battlefield.

The vehicles originally belonged to the former Iraqi army and have been refurbished and made ready for use.

“These vehicles have not been used very much and are in pretty good condition,†Styles said. “So with a minimal effort they are ready to be used almost immediately.â€

The multi-purpose armored vehicles, he continued, which are ‘personnel carriers,’ can be used in multiple situations.

“It’s a very flexible vehicle,†Styles said. “And can have an array of various weapons systems added to it. The tanks are the T55s and the 1st [Mechanized Brigade] will be using them until the Iraqi government brings online its tank depot factory in Taji, at which time they will be refurbishing some T72s and then they will replace the T55s with the better T72s.â€

The Iraqi 1st Mechanized Brigade commander (name withheld for security reasons) said the brigade represents the nucleus of what could potentially be an expanded force. Additionally, according to the commander, the brigade could grow into a full division. Currently, the Iraqi Army’s training plan calls for the generation of three divisions of infantry with various support battalions as well.

“We are trying to build a new army,†the commander said. “And the people are expecting many things from this army. They want peace. They know that the army is a powerful friend when used correctly.â€

Styles said that the unit represents Iraq’s mobile reserve of the future.

“We have all the crew served weapons for the vehicles and the unit continues to grow in strength on a daily basis,†he said.

“The caliber, morale and number of people have exceeded all expectations while the equipment is ready for operations,†Styles said. “The brigade has started its training and will use their vehicles to hone their skills in preparation for missions in helping to secure the future of Iraq.â€

Styles indicated that at full strength the mechanized brigade will be about 3,000 soldiers strong, having all the capabilities of a mechanized brigade, including infantry, armor, artillery, engineers and logistics sections such as medical, maintenance, supply and other specialties required to run a brigade.

“The Brigade will be built like you would build a brick house; one piece at a time,†he said. “We’ll build the brigade … over three phases.

“Basically each phase will add a thousand people,†Styles said.

With the first phase commencing in November, according to Styles, a second is slated for February or March 2005 with the final phase scheduled for around May or June.

Styles said many of the recruits are from the mechanized forces of the former Iraqi forces with training organized as a three-week basic training “refresher†course with trainers being Iraqi Training Battalion-trained Iraqi soldiers assuming the roles of brigade instructors. According to Styles, many of the soldiers already have some experience and do not require the same instruction intensity as fresh and raw recruits without and training.

“The initial capability is small,†he said. “[it will be] a mechanized battalion and its logistic support. But what it gives them is a vision of the future.

“This Iraqi brigade is going to be clothed in uniforms made in Iraq, operating equipment from Iraq, wearing boots made in factories in Iraq,†Styles said.

“It’s really initially very symbolic,†he said. “It is a brigade that is an Iraqi idea; it is funded completely through Iraqi funds, it is going to be trained completely by Iraqi trainers and deployed completely by Iraqi orders under Iraqi leadership.â€

[Wilco 944]

Iraqi Armor

South African designs are weird.

More

Another

UAZ

I'll dig up some more.

[sputnik monroe 102]

Wilco your first and third link are broken, at least for me they are. The two entitled UAZ and More are working though.

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]Wilco your first and third link are broken, at least for me they are. The two entitled UAZ and More are working though.

None of them work for me. Get a page that basically says it has errors.

Quote[/b] ]Algerian troops...

You forgot Poland.

[Wilco 944]

Hm.. you guys can view gettyimages right? They work fine for me, I'll figure it out.

[Wilco 944]

I'm pretty sure we have reasons why not to give them equal firepower. The biggest one being the old "turn against them" trick. So I see why they won't give them newer T-80's or even T-72's. They still are a farely new force.

Personally, I think these things look like IED bait.

[DracoPaladore 0]

What are those in the last pic? I've never seen one before.

[billybob2002 0]

I already posted those pics jan. and they are from Iraqi army day 2005.

Anyway,

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050212/D886M8800.html

Quote[/b] ]

CNN News Executive Eason Jordan Quits

Feb 11, 9:04 PM (ET)

By DAVID BAUDER

NEW YORK (AP) - CNN chief news executive Eason Jordan quit Friday amid a furor over remarks he made in Switzerland last month about journalists killed by the U.S. military in Iraq. Jordan said he was quitting to avoid CNN being "unfairly tarnished" by the controversy.

During a panel discussion at the World Economic Forum last month, Jordan said he believed that several journalists who were killed by coalition forces in Iraq had been targeted.

He quickly backed off the remarks, explaining that he meant to distinguish between journalists killed because they were in the wrong place when a bomb fell, for example, and those killed because they were shot at by American forces who mistook them for the enemy.

"I never meant to imply U.S. forces acted with ill intent when U.S. forces accidentally killed journalists, and I apologize to anyone who thought I said or believed otherwise," Jordan said in a memo to fellow staff members at CNN.

But the damage had been done, compounded by the fact that no transcript of his actual remarks has turned up. He was the target of an Internet and Web site campaign that was beginning to rival the one launched against CBS's Dan Rather following the network's ill-fated story last fall about President Bush's military service.

A Web site, Easongate.com, was created and distributed a petition this week calling on CNN to find a transcript and fire Jordan if he said the military had intentionally killed journalists.

The Web site had been preparing Friday to post information to help its supporters contact CNN's advertisers. A message posted on the site after Jordan's resignation said its authors were pleased with the outcome but still want a videotape of the economic forum released.

"To every reader, commentator, e-mailer and blogger that committed to this cause, thank you," a message on the Web site read. "This is a victory for every soldier who has honorably served this nation. To you we devote this victory."

After several management restructurings at CNN, Jordan actually had no current operational responsibility over network programming. But he was CNN's chief fix-it man overseas, arranging coverage in dangerous or hard-to-reach parts of the world.

"I have decided to resign in an effort to prevent CNN from being unfairly tarnished by the controversy over conflicting accounts of my recent remarks regarding the alarming number of journalists killed in Iraq," Jordan said.

"I have devoted my professional life to helping make CNN the most trusted and respected news outlet in the world, and I would never do anything to compromise my work or that of the thousands of talented people it is my honor to work alongside," he said.

Jordan joined CNN in 1982 as an assistant assignment editor on the national news desk. He has won the Emmy, duPont and Peabody journalism awards.

CNN's global newsgathering infrastructure is chiefly the result of Jordan's work, said Jim Walton, chief of the CNN News Group.

"Eason's service to CNN and support of the people at every level of our organization is legend," Walton said. "He leaves us with our gratitude, respect and best wishes."

[quicksand 0]

al-Qaida in Iraq Criticizes Al-Jazeera

Quote[/b] ]CAIRO, Egypt - A statement in the name of the al-Qaida in Iraq (news - web sites) terror group posted Saturday on the Internet accused Arab satellite network Al-Jazeera of trying to win U.S. favor by reporting false information about an attack the group had claimed responsibility for.

The statement, which could not be immediately verified, related to a Friday bombing outside a Shiite mosque in Balad Ruz, 45 miles northeast of Baghdad, that killed 12 people as worshippers left prayer services.

News reports suggested the mosque was targeted. But the group led by Jordanian terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi claimed the target was actually a nearby Iraqi National Guard convoy.

"After we posted a statement (claiming responsibility) ... we found that Al-Jazeera tried to alter the facts and attributed to us (something) we didn't say," said the statement that appeared on an Internet site used as a clearing house for extremist Islamic material.

"We didn't say in our statement that we targeted the mosque, but that we targeted the infidel guards, and we hit them directly."

It also accused Qatar-based Al-Jazeera of falsifying the report in a bid to "flatter the Americans" and interim Iraqi Prime Minister Ayad Allawi's government.

U.S. officials have been critical of Al-Jazeera's coverage of the war in Iraq, and Iraq's interim government closed the station's offices in August after accusing it of inciting violence.

Al-Jazeera editor-in-chief Ayman Gaballah defended his station, saying it relied on reports from news agencies operating inside Iraq.

"No one will issue a statement saying they are happy with our reporting," he said.

The station has tense relations with most Arab governments and the United States over its coverage, which is often described as biased or inflammatory. As the Arab world's first private, independent satellite station, Al-Jazeera has a wide viewership across the Middle East.

Now it's settled..There is absolutley no one in this world who doesn't hate Al-Jazeera and it doesn't end short of Zarqawi.

Most Americans regard it as bin Laden's television,most Arab leaders are irked by it's liberal and reformists calls,the Iraqi interim government felt it like a stab in the back as it was the television that had the contacts and courage to report anywhere anything,and now Zarqawi's group think of it as an American agent

Most of it's criticism is very often contradictory.My Arab freinds told me it's ratings are so high because their reportage is highly professionaly but moreover because it's the only Arab television that isn't state owned,sponsored or censored.I've only read the English website and I don't find them exagately biased it's articles quote Reuters&AFP added by their own field reporting,then again I have no idea what's written on the Arab page.

[theavonlady 2]

From MEMRI:

Quote[/b] ]A VIDEOTAPE FOUND IN A STACK OF SADDAM HUSSEIN’S OLD DOCUMENTS SHOWS HIS SON, UDAY HUSSEIN, MEETING WITH MUHAMMAD JASSEM AL-ALI, FORMER MANAGER OF AL-JAZEERA, WHO TELLS UDAY ‘AL-JAZEERA IS YOUR CHANNEL.’ (1/24/2005, IRNA, IRAN)

[quicksand 0]

Correction: Iraq-Al-Jazeera Story

Quote[/b] ]BEIRUT, Lebanon (AP) - In a Jan. 3 story about a videotape showing the former manager of Al-Jazeera television with Saddam Hussein's late son Odai, The Associated Press erroneously reported the manager told Odai that "Al-Jazeera is your channel."

The words were spoken by Odai, who said he was quoting what had been said previously by the manager, Mohammed Jassem al-Ali. The London-based Arabic newspaper Asharq al-Awsat correctly attributed the comment, but its account was mistranslated by AP. A tape later obtained by AP confirmed the paper's version.

First of all your source should have corrected itself by now as the story is quite old and it's title is misleading.

Of course this following article makes it all the more confusing. Isn't it awckward to quote someone you are engaged in a conversation with reffering to yourself in the second person,especially when that person does own the channel  

I think only the transcript of the conversation could shed light on this..

[ralphwiggum 6]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/02/13/iraq.main/index.html

Quote[/b] ]BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- The United Iraq Alliance, backed by Shiite Muslim Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, won a plurality of votes in the January 30 elections but fell short of an outright majority, the Independent Electoral Commission of Iraq said Sunday.

The results announced are "final uncertified" results -- political parties have three days to file objections before they are certified.

"Today this is a new birth for Iraq, a free Iraq, and free people who aim to build a state based on civilized values and democratic values and the principles of peace and love," commission spokesman Fareed Ayar said.

Of about 8.46 million votes cast in the election, the UIA received 4.08 million, the combined Kurdish parties garnered 2.17 million and the Iraqi list of Interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi got 1.17 million.

CNN calculates that those numbers would give the UIA about 130 seats on Iraq's 275-seat National Assembly, the Kurds about 70 seats, and the Iraqi list about 40 seats.

A plurality occurs when a party receives more votes than any other but still has not received more than half of the total votes -- a majority.

The results suggest the Shiite alliance can only succeed in the assembly by partnering with members of other parties, The Associated Press reported.

Meanwhile, the combined Kurdish parties will nominate Patriotic Union of Kurdistan leader Jalal Talabani to be president of Iraq, Iraqi Deputy Prime Minister Barham Saleh, a member of the Kurdish alliance, told CNN Sunday.

Talabani was a member of the U.S.-appointed Iraqi Governing Council, the predecessor to the interim government that took over on June 28, 2004.

Assembly to draft constitution

The National Assembly will draft a constitution, and pick the country's next president and two vice presidents. The president will select a prime minister.

The constitution must be drafted by August 15 and submitted to a national referendum by October 15.

Shiites make up about 60 percent of Iraq's population and were persecuted under the regime of Saddam Hussein, who is a Sunni Muslim.

There are concerns the Sunni Arab population -- about 20 percent of Iraq's 25 million people -- will look upon the results as illegitimate. Two influential Sunni groups, the Association of Muslim Scholars and Iraqi Islamic Party, did not participate in the election.

The UIA's win was not surprising -- but that it failed to receive a majority of votes was unexpected.

The United Iraqi Alliance includes major Shiite parties -- the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq, the Islamic Dawa Party and the Iraqi National Congress -- as well as other Shiite organizations and some smaller Kurdish, Sunni Muslim and minority groups.

Al-Sistanti, the UIA's chief backer, supported the elections and is considered by many to be the most revered and most influential leader among Iraq's 15 million Shiite Muslims. Now in his 70s, he was born in Iran and moved to Iraq to study in Najaf, where Iran's Ayatollah Khomeini spent years of exile.

The announcement of the election results had been delayed while some ballots were recounted and others were ruled invalid.

[Ironsight 1]

Iraqi Armor

South African designs are weird.

Those vehicles aren't South African.

I would love to know what they really are, they look baddass

Quote[/b] ]So I see why they won't give them newer T-80's or even T-72's

They are getting T72's from Romania. NATO's only looking for a way to transport them to Iraq

[theavonlady 2]

Correction: Iraq-Al-Jazeera Story

Quote[/b] ]BEIRUT, Lebanon (AP) - In a Jan. 3 story about a videotape showing the former manager of Al-Jazeera television with Saddam Hussein's late son Odai, The Associated Press erroneously reported the manager told Odai that "Al-Jazeera is your channel."

The words were spoken by Odai, who said he was quoting what had been said previously by the manager, Mohammed Jassem al-Ali. The London-based Arabic newspaper Asharq al-Awsat correctly attributed the comment, but its account was mistranslated by AP. A tape later obtained by AP confirmed the paper's version.

First of all your source should have corrected itself by now as the story is quite old and it's title is misleading.

Of course this following article makes it all the more confusing. Isn't it awckward to quote someone you are engaged in a conversation with reffering to yourself in the second person,especially when that person does own the channel  

I think only the transcript of the conversation could shed light on this..

I emailed them your link earlier today. The item no longer appears on MEMRI's news ticker page.

[billybob2002 0]

Iraqi Armor

South African designs are weird.

Those vehicles aren't South African.

I would love to know what they really are, they look baddass  

Quote[/b] ]So I see why they won't give them newer T-80's or even T-72's

They are getting T72's from Romania. NATO's only looking for a way to transport them to Iraq

I think the APC is french (i cannot remember). Anyway, I wonder what variant of the T-72 they are getting from Rom.