Eurocopter's future heavy lift helicopter: the HTH

[Dauragon 0]

It has been ordered France

Erm, no, keep your junk please.

Sorry, not France. Spain.

You French have that Mirage pice of junk  

Not Mirage pice of junk but Rafale fantastic technological achievement

then Rafale fantastic technological achievement piece of junk

[denoir 0]

There are comparable alternatives, such as the "Flying Brick" Mirage

Is it me or isn't the Mirage (all versions) a bit more widespread than the Gripen ? There must be some reasons for that ..... ;)

Widespread as in used by more countries? Mirage is used in 8 countries, Gripen in 4. But the Mirage was first used in 1983, the Gripen in 1997.

what differs so much between a 2000-5 (1996 and now the standard of all the mirages flying abroad), 2000-9 or 2000-5mk2 and a Gripen ?

You mean apart from the "Flying Brick" nickname?  

Here is a comparison:

http://www.fach-extraoficial.com/ingles/grippen_mirage.htm

Quote[/b] ]The Grippen is a decade newer than the Mirage 2000-5, it has a superior STOL ability and it is said to be more manouverable, with a superior computer and radar.

[ran 0]

Well ... the mirage is a great achievement when you consider that 100% of it is homemade unlike the Gripen

I have to admit the 2000 has its age, but it's still a really potent jet.

[llauma 0]

The gripen was a stupid project doomed to fail. Sure it's propably the best multi-role plane but they wont be able to sell it without some major counter purchases. Sweden simply doesn't have the political power required to convince countries to buy it.

[EiZei 0]

Well, IIRC FAF trialed F-18 against mirage and decided to buy one first mentioned.

[llauma 0]

Well, IIRC FAF trialed F-18 against mirage and decided to buy one first mentioned.

Because USA offered more than just the plane.

[ran 0]

Well, IIRC FAF trialed F-18 against mirage and decided to buy one first mentioned.

brownnosing the yanks ... that's all

One thing is sure though, we make some of the most gorgeous planes in the world, aren't the Mirage 2000 and the Rafale sexy ?

[Nathanz 0]

One thing is sure though, we make some of the most gorgeous planes in the world, aren't the Mirage 2000 and the Rafale sexy ?

The Rafale is nice but the mirage 2000 looks to .... basic

[Acro 0]

Well, IIRC FAF trialed F-18 against mirage and decided to buy one first mentioned.

brownnosing the yanks ... that's all

One thing is sure though, we make some of the most gorgeous planes in the world, aren't the Mirage 2000 and the Rafale sexy ?

Not sure about the Mirage 2000 but the Rafale does look cool.

Although coolness hardly has an effect on the combat performance.  

[Nathanz 0]

Although coolness hardly has an effect on the combat performance.  

It does if the enemy pilot gets blinded by the sight of the ugly Mirage   (that was a joke btw)

edit:Speeling

[ran 0]

One thing is sure though, we make some of the most gorgeous planes in the world, aren't the Mirage 2000 and the Rafale sexy ?

The Rafale is nice but the mirage 2000 looks to .... basic

[llauma 0]

One thing is sure though, we make some of the most gorgeous planes in the world, aren't the Mirage 2000 and the Rafale sexy ?

The Rafale looks like the eurofighter, gripen and F-16 combined.

[Nathanz 0]

One thing is sure though, we make some of the most gorgeous planes in the world, aren't the Mirage 2000 and the Rafale sexy ?

The Rafale is nice but the mirage 2000 looks to .... basic  

http://www.airforce-technology.com/project....0_7.jpg

I mean without the weapons, fueltanks etc..

edit:

Mirage 2000:

Eurofighter Typhoon:

[Madus_Maximus 0]

It's like the FAMAS, looks cool, but you cant hit crap with the iron sights lol. Too much recoil aswell from the huge rate of fire. Also another downfall (not the manufacturers fault) is the 5.56 NATO round it fires. Oh well... oh and going back to the F-22... it's like $1-2billion a plane last i heard, how's that cost effective compared to the EF? You can buy like 20 Euro's for that which totally out perform the F22 and beat it in all area's bar the "stealthy" feature, which is actually countered on modern radar systems to a large extent. Plus the "enemy" these days aren't equals in terms of professionalism and funding like the Cold War years.

Back to the new chopper. It's about time someone took the inititive and came up with designs for a new heavy lifter. Even if it becomes wide-spread I can't see the Americans wanting to buy it, they prefer to keep things domestic, which for better or for worse is something they like doing. Suppose its easier to repair and so on having things all in one place.

Oh and the F35 is being purchased by the RAF to replace the harriers. We jointly designed it, and Lockheed Martin who are building the thing are owned by BAe Systems, so technically it's a British project with American funding lol. I think we're going over the top on "high tech" these days. Eurofighter is state of the art, but in the systems it needs to be, such as target aquisition and manouverability. With these you have little need for being "stealthy" as by the time you're locked onto you've loosed your missiles and given the other guy a bad day.

[ran 0]

One thing is sure though, we make some of the most gorgeous planes in the world, aren't the Mirage 2000 and the Rafale sexy ?

The Rafale is nice but the mirage 2000 looks to .... basic

http://www.airforce-technology.com/project....0_7.jpg

I mean without the weapons, fueltanks etc..

lots of nice pics here :

http://www.pierre-gabriele.com/avion.htm

[Nathanz 0]

See, basic

More nice images here.

Oh and wasnt this thread about some helicopter or something ?

[Mister Frag 0]

Oh well... oh and going back to the F-22... it's like $1-2billion a plane last i heard, how's that cost effective compared to the EF?

You're confusing the F-22 with the B-2 "Spirit" stealth bomber.

The cost of a single F-22 will come in at below $100 million. Certainly not cheap, but at least a magnitude less than the number you gave. Also, the $100 million price tag is for the entire weapon system including R&D. And the plane does have some amazing properties, such as a <s>radio</s>radar signature the size of a bumblebee...

Edit: Changed radio to radar. Duh...

[ran 0]

It's like the FAMAS, looks cool, but you cant hit crap with the iron sights lol. Too much recoil aswell from the huge rate of fire. Also another downfall (not the manufacturers fault) is the 5.56 NATO round it fires.

Ever fired one, gentleman ?

And from my more than limited experience in joint military operations *wink* *wink*, it seems rto me that most of the assault rifles issued these days and in the recent past are chambered in 5.56, but this, even a look into the actual issue of Armada international could tell you the same thing ... And by the way, when you're of the same nationality as those who first created the SA80, you better prepare your arguments quite well ;) SA80 which is, by the way, a 5.56 bullpup assault rifle, just like the FAMAS.

For the huge rate of fire .... why do you think bipods came with the gun in its first version ? (answer : to reduce the downsides of using full auto especially since th FAMAS was ment to fulfill the roles of assault rifle and squad automatic weapon). The ultimate solution is to put on some muscular weight by doing some physical training and body fitness exercise and to buy a new pair of arms if ever yours are too weak.

When it comes to aiming ... where did you read such statement ? Just out of personnal interest, did you ever put an eye behind the FAMAS' sights and actually pulled the trigger ?

As any rifle, its sights need to be zeroed if you want them to be useful and the disposition of the sights don't make it any harder.

[ran 0]

Oh and wasnt this thread about some helicopter or something ?

Yeah ... well, back on-topic :

HTH, how original lol ... they could have tried to find a more advanced acronym like :

ARSCH*

Advanced air-Refuellable Support Cargo Helicopter

*ah ah ah ah

[hellfish6 7]

Helicopters, guys, helicopters. Not whose plane is sexier or better.

[Mister Frag 0]

HTH, how original lol ... they could have tried to find a more advanced acronym like :

ARSCH*

Advanced air-Refuellable Support Cargo Helicopter

For those with limited command of the German language, that's ASS...

[ran 0]

HTH, how original lol ... they could have tried to find a more advanced acronym like :

ARSCH*

Advanced air-Refuellable Support Cargo Helicopter

For those with limited command of the German language, that's ASS...

Thank you for the precision Mister Frag

Since this helicopteris a Franco-German project I thought about using this fine German word as a basis for my Acronym.

[Hit_Sqd_Maximus 0]

friendships rarely last forever

with friends like these........

Yeah you're right ... but business is business ...

The Egyptians seem to enjoy their Mirages ...

Odd ... 40 years ago, the Israeli were flying mirages to shoot down Egyptian planes ...

what happened?

[ran 0]

friendships rarely last forever

with friends like these........

Yeah you're right ... but business is business ...

The Egyptians seem to enjoy their Mirages ...

Odd ... 40 years ago, the Israeli were flying mirages to shoot down Egyptian planes ...

what happened?

Israel used to be a good client of the french arms industry, before De Gaulle broke the ties which bound us to the state of Israel

[theavonlady 2]

friendships rarely last forever

with friends like these........

Yeah you're right ... but business is business ...

The Egyptians seem to enjoy their Mirages ...

Odd ... 40 years ago, the Israeli were flying mirages to shoot down Egyptian planes ...

what happened?

Oil.