bn880 5 Posted July 12, 2004 Hmm, actually Schumi is an excellent driver in all respects, if Lance was him he'd be ahead in the points now. Okay just bugging you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brgnorway 0 Posted July 12, 2004 Hmm, actually Schumi is an excellent driver in all respects, if Lance was him he'd be ahead in the points now. Â Â Okay just bugging you. Yes, Schumacher is an excellent driver - in all respects. That's what makes him so great. However, several drivers can outperform him in some conditions on a given day. Hakkinen used to, Coulthard did it a couple of times and both Villenueve and Damon Hill did it several times. Their problem however was that they are not as stabile as him over time. Schumi masters all kind of tracks and different weather conditions too. The others don't - that's what sets him apart from the competition. Edit: oh forgot to mention that Schumi is in the history of F1 far superior compared to anyone (yes even Fangio) when it comes to participating in R & D, organizing, and building a team effort with all the persons in the team. Holy smoke he is great ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Winters 1 Posted July 13, 2004 Once this race gets into the mountains Lance is gonna make his move, he always pulls ahead in the steeper climbs and has never really been a sprinter. Well, Lance's strength is not the climbing. There are many others far better than him. He's more like Michael Schumacher in F1 - a complete driver/cyclist mastering all the aspects of cycling/driving quite well. On a given day they'll shine in every respect (Michael almost always do   ) , but Lance is the tactical cyclist - always collecting points when it matters. I like Schumi - but not Lance though  He always seems to get ahead of everyone in the mountain stages so i just thought that was his strength. As for Schummi, i am not a big fan of Auto Racing it's too damn boring for my arrogant American self although Drag Racing is cool. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted July 14, 2004 Lance is a lot like Miguel Indurain. A very good time trialist, great in the mountains, excellent tactics and a very solid team behind him. Hell....if I had all that I could even win! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apollo 0 Posted July 14, 2004 Well if you wanna be a tour winner you got to be of an time trialist background these days.From the last 15 Years only 2 tour winners were not pure time trialists. (Riis and Pantani ,both 1 time) And you got to be able to handle the mountains as well ,afcourse ,however time trialists usually are good climbers. This year got 3 time trials ,2 individual and 1 team time trial ,2 of those time trials are over already but the last time trial is one of about 30 kilometers straith onto a mountain. (average 10% of the whole trial) This last time trial will be very important. We also got more mountains than usual this year ,this is to the advantage of a lot of Spaniards and other climbers. Btw. While McEwen is a cycler for who who i have respect ,i don't technicly see him as a Belgian. These days half of the tour cyclers lives in Flanders and/or speaks dutch.... Afcourse that got to do with the excelent training possibilety's and the proximity to the most important cycling events. Virenque rides for a Belgian team to ,not my win though. Anyway the mountains are finnaly near ,time for the real action. Â Btw ,just another remark.Anyone noticed how much US postal and Telekom beefed up their teams with semi favourite's? If this continue's like that then next year Armstrong will have Ulrich as worker. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted July 14, 2004 Btw ,just another remark.Anyone noticed how much US postal and Telekom beefed up their teams with semi favourite's? If this continue's like that then next year Armstrong will have Ulrich as worker. Â Nah...he's gotta better taste than that! And McEwen won again...so that's 3 for Australia! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DarkLight 0 Posted July 14, 2004 Btw ,just another remark.Anyone noticed how much US postal and Telekom beefed up their teams with semi favourite's? If this continue's like that then next year Armstrong will have Ulrich as worker. Â Nah...he's gotta better taste than that! Â And McEwen won again...so that's 3 for Australia! Â Correction... 3 for Belgium! HOORAY! WE ROCK! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ozanzac 0 Posted July 15, 2004 Btw ,just another remark.Anyone noticed how much US postal and Telekom beefed up their teams with semi favourite's? If this continue's like that then next year Armstrong will have Ulrich as worker. Â Nah...he's gotta better taste than that! Â And McEwen won again...so that's 3 for Australia! Â Correction... 3 for Belgium! Â HOORAY! WE ROCK! You can take the boy out of the bush......but you can never take the bush out of the boy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DarkLight 0 Posted July 15, 2004 Btw ,just another remark.Anyone noticed how much US postal and Telekom beefed up their teams with semi favourite's? If this continue's like that then next year Armstrong will have Ulrich as worker. Â Nah...he's gotta better taste than that! Â And McEwen won again...so that's 3 for Australia! Â Correction... 3 for Belgium! Â HOORAY! WE ROCK! You can take the boy out of the bush......but you can never take the bush out of the boy. I'll take that as a compliment! once again... HOORAAAY Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tex -USMC- 0 Posted July 16, 2004 Oh man, Armstrong just kicked some major ass in the first Pyrenees stage. Ended up second place on the stage and shaved over two minutes off the lead. He's now in second place in the GC after stage 12 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bn880 5 Posted July 16, 2004 Not really, his team actually kicked ass and stayed up fron until the last sprint, and a rider without such a team beat him anyway. Remember that TDF is not about the best man, but about the best/luckiest team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apollo 0 Posted July 17, 2004 Quote[/b] ]Oh man, Armstrong just kicked some major ass in the first Pyrenees stage. Ended up second place on the stage and shaved over two minutes off the lead. He's now in second place in the GC after stage 12 You didn't expect that? It's an almost exact reennactment of every first mountain climb he won in every tour the last 6 years.And the time is about the same to ,even the place where he left the maingroup.it's typical ,every first mounatin climb Lance takes 1 or 2 minutes ,after that he usually makes a go on one mountain more just to secure his spot with the help of some others ,then he usually is secure and happily awaits the mountain time trial. 2 minutes is a nice gap for Armstrong ,but i think he will go for something like a 3 to 4 minutes gap before he starts on the time trial ,so i think hell show he's mussle's in the mountains once more before crawling in his secure spot helped by his workers. (he got to push Voeclair of the yellow jersey anyway ,not to hard i think) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DarkLight 0 Posted July 18, 2004 Not really, his team actually kicked ass and stayed up fron until the last sprint, and a rider without such a team beat him anyway. Â Remember that TDF is not about the best man, but about the best/luckiest team. Â I don't understand why you guys always talk about "the team". I don't see why they help so much, it's not like they give armstrong suuuperpowers so he can ride twice as fast, right? Sure they can give him some support but i don't see why he wouldn't have won without his team... Why is it so important that you all stay together to win? In the end, it's just one person that REALLY has to do the job, right? Yeah sure, it's nice when your whole team ends within the first 10 places but that's not what i mean. Why does Armstrong have more chance of winning when his team is close to him? I don't know anything at all about this sport, that probably explains why i don't understand this... I never bother to watch it, the only parts that i like is when they fall (at least if there aren't any serious injuries) and the last km. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ran 0 Posted July 18, 2004 Not really, his team actually kicked ass and stayed up fron until the last sprint, and a rider without such a team beat him anyway. Remember that TDF is not about the best man, but about the best/luckiest team. I don't understand why you guys always talk about "the team". I don't see why they help so much, it's not like they give armstrong suuuperpowers so he can ride twice as fast, right? Sure they can give him some support but i don't see why he wouldn't have won without his team... Why is it so important that you all stay together to win? In the end, it's just one person that REALLY has to do the job, right? Yeah sure, it's nice when your whole team ends within the first 10 places but that's not what i mean. Why does Armstrong have more chance of winning when his team is close to him? I don't know anything at all about this sport, that probably explains why i don't understand this... I never bother to watch it, the only parts that i like is when they fall (at least if there aren't any serious injuries) and the last km. If I understand correctly, the team can prevent Armstrong from being overrun by people behind, his teammates also help him when there's wind and in case of mechanical problem, their bkes can be cannibalized. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tex -USMC- 0 Posted July 18, 2004 Quote[/b] ]Oh man, Armstrong just kicked some major ass in the first Pyrenees stage. Ended up second place on the stage and shaved over two minutes off the lead. He's now in second place in the GC after stage 12 You didn't expect that? It's an almost exact reennactment of every first mountain climb he won in every tour the last 6 years.And the time is about the same to ,even the place where he left the maingroup.it's typical ,every first mounatin climb Lance takes 1 or 2 minutes ,after that he usually makes a go on one mountain more just to secure his spot with the help of some others ,then he usually is secure and happily awaits the mountain time trial. 2 minutes is a nice gap for Armstrong ,but i think he will go for something like a 3 to 4 minutes gap before he starts on the time trial ,so i think hell show he's mussle's in the mountains once more before crawling in his secure spot helped by his workers. (he got to push Voeclair of the yellow jersey anyway ,not to hard i think) It's not surprise, it's smug satisfaction. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DarkLight 0 Posted July 18, 2004 Not really, his team actually kicked ass and stayed up fron until the last sprint, and a rider without such a team beat him anyway. Â Remember that TDF is not about the best man, but about the best/luckiest team. Â I don't understand why you guys always talk about "the team". Â I don't see why they help so much, it's not like they give armstrong suuuperpowers so he can ride twice as fast, right? Â Sure they can give him some support but i don't see why he wouldn't have won without his team... Â Why is it so important that you all stay together to win? Â In the end, it's just one person that REALLY has to do the job, right? Yeah sure, it's nice when your whole team ends within the first 10 places but that's not what i mean. Â Why does Armstrong have more chance of winning when his team is close to him? I don't know anything at all about this sport, that probably explains why i don't understand this... Â I never bother to watch it, the only parts that i like is when they fall (at least if there aren't any serious injuries) and the last km. If I understand correctly, the team can prevent Armstrong from being overrun by people behind, his teammates also help him when there's wind and in case of mechanical problem, their bkes can be cannibalized. So everybody has to sacrifice his chance to win just so the best rider of the team can win? Bah, me don't like that kind of rules... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apollo 0 Posted July 18, 2004 Quote[/b] ]So everybody has to sacrifice his chance to win just so the best rider of the team can win? Â Bah, me don't like that kind of rules... Depends what you see as sacrifice. First of all , any of Lance his teammate's know all to well that they stand no chance to win the tour the France.With the support of Lance and the team though they might win a stage one and awhile though if they managed to break loose from the rest of peleton with their leader ,Lance would usually give a course victory away to a teammate if he can do so. Second of all ,Armstrong's gain is the team's gain.Everything Armstron wins in prizes is shared equally among it's teammate's just like in other teams.Now Lance has a fat contract ,but his price money is easily 1.000.000$ a year and that gets shared among the teammate's ,a good incentive for them to let their leader win as much as possible. Last not but least: the essence of teamtactics. What would happen should Armstrong have to ride the whole tour on his own withought team? He would loose for sure. He needs his team to make a tempo in the peleton.This tempo is important for the yellow jersey holding team as riding slow would mean that other cyclers can jump away from the Peleton easily and make time.Now if armstrong is alone in the yellow Jersey ,he would have to react on every atack made from the peloton by a guy relative close in time as well as keeping the peleton speed high ,impossible really. It would be easy for the other teams ,they would just attack attack attack each 1 at the time forcing Armstrong to waste precious energy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DarkLight 0 Posted July 18, 2004 Second of all ,Armstrong's gain is the team's gain.Everything Armstron wins in prizes is shared equally among it's teammate's just like in other teams.Now Lance has a fat contract ,but his price money is easily 1.000.000$ a year and that gets shared among the teammate's ,a good incentive for them to let their leader win as much as possible. Ooooh i really like that part... I know what i wanne be when i grow up! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted July 18, 2004 There is a lot of team tactics involved. Afterall which is easier....winning the TDF or winning the TDF with 8 friends helping you? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apollo 0 Posted July 18, 2004 Well you got to choose a good team to work for. I think most of the US postal guys are happy in their team ,they earn lots in prize money as bonusses. But afcourse ,asside from these win bonusses every rider has his own contract ,and the more you win the bigger youre contract gets ,however if you can prove yourself very valuable as worker than that can lead to a very fat contract to.Take the case of Hincapie and floyd Landis ,both of the stronger Armstrong helpers who can kill a peleton on high mountains by tempo and survive to the last moment. Or a guy like Stephano Zannini ,he pulls team sprinters to a few hundred meters before the line from where the sprinter jumps from.He is one of the best riders in that role ,he may not have won many courses ,but he launched sprinters to atleast 10 tour de France course victory's. Specialized workers have fat contract's to and a victory of the guy they "launch" almost counts as their victory in contract terms. Never witnessed a mass sprint where 2 guys put theyre hands up? Ussualy thats the sprinter who wins and his launcher who ends between 10th and 20th. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pathy 0 Posted July 18, 2004 The winner will be the one who's got the best drugs inside him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ran 0 Posted July 18, 2004 The winner will be the one who's got the best drugs inside him. Yeah, seeing Armstrong (for exemple) almost perfectly fresh at the end of a stage makes me think he is as "loaded" as I was 16 years ago ... -edit- added the "almost" since I've seen a few sweat drops in a TV footage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pathy 0 Posted July 18, 2004 David Armstrong? We should do a massive MP tour de....ermm....nogova...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ran 0 Posted July 18, 2004 David Armstrong?We should do a massive MP tour de....ermm....nogova...... good idea hehe, the Lipany-Moldova (what's the name of the most eastward city already ?) criterium Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apollo 0 Posted July 18, 2004 2 , take water from sponsor car 6 o clock 100. 5 , smack person cheering at 3 o clock 1 centimeter 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 , pee brake at EF07 Man ,i would love it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
