International Politics Thread

[Baff1 0]

That's blah-blah-blah talk. It's easy to talk. Your whole idea that authority > arguments just shows how you think and how unscientific it is.

Intelligence doesn't guarantee that you learn the alphabet or how the economy works all by yourself. Sure you might come up with an alphabet, but chances are that it won't be the same as the one used by other people.

Quote[/b] ]Scientific method isn't a method you use.

So economy is unscientific?

You are unscientific.

And yes, you won't learn about the economy all by yourself. Which is why you should pay more attention to others trying to explain it to you.

I'm pretty good at economics. It's an area in life I have had a lot of successful experience of. It is also a subject I spend considerable time with each day in the effort to learn more.

For decades now.

You are a school boy. A teenager. You have no idea about this subject at all.

You argue, not becuase you "are scientific", you argue because you are a fool.

Scientific method is not about "argument", it is about repeatable results, measured in controlled experiments.

You haven't done any.

There is not one iota of scientific method displayed in anything you have ever posted on this thread.

Either you didn't understand what "scientific method" means, or you are a half-wit. Self-delusional.

If you were to explain to us your experiences in the classroom or your political opinions of international politics in the framework of your social, cultural and national identity you would become a valuable source of information.

Instead you seek to explain to everyone your insights into socialism, modern history, capitalism and the workplace.

Only you don't have any insights. You have no personal experience of any of those subjects. Only arguments.

Your opinion is worthless. It has no value.

You don't even have a mind open enough to learn. Sharing with you is of no benefit to anyone.

"Arguing" is all you have to offer and I don't need you for that.

There are plenty of 5 year olds who just want to argue pointlessly about things they have no idea about and aren't open minded towards learning.

If I thought that was fun, I'd hang out in the playground a lot more.

You are stupid. You are an excellent communicator. With impeccable language skills. You have all the tools and the raw mateials to be highly intelligent company.

Unfortunately, you can't do it. Because your attitude stinks.

You don't want to know.

You just want to argue.

[Baff1 0]

Quote[/b] ]I've got you down as a Mid Western American.

Someone for whom all the worlds problems can be clearly defined into catagories with "good guys" and "bad guys" and for whom hatred is always the prime motivator.

You know the racial stereotype.

 Wow, talk about the kettle calling the pot black. I didn't realize mid western Americans could be categorized.

Yeah sorry mate, it's a cheap shot I know, but yes Mid Westerners have a certain racial stereotype attached to them.

Specifically with regards to their respect for and understanding of foreign cultures.

Please understand that this is a racial stereotype.

It is perfectly possible for liberal minded, unindoctrinated, non fiercely nationalistic flag waving, non democracy loving, non-christian, multi-linguistic people to come from the Mid West, it's just that most people that come from that region of the world are not.

If you haven't looked outside your own cultural identity for other sources of history and opinion, I believe you are very unlikely to find a balanced view.

The first thing any student of history is taught is to seek multiple view points from conflicting sources of bias on any given subject.

The same is true for current events.

I don't really look at the world in terms of good guys and bad guys. Good and evil. Aggressors and defenders.

That's a bit simple minded to me.

There is a big difference between a morality play, and a real life event.

One is an oversimplified fable designed to emphasis commonly acceptable behaviour in society and the other is a complex and factual event.

If you do look at the events in Georgia as a simple case of aggression, on any one side, I think you are either simple minded or too bias to look at the subject matter objectively.

Of all the people in all the nationailities I have been discussing this issue with so far Mid Westerns have stood out for their anti-soviet, anti-commies, disbelief in the basic humanity of anyone they have been taught from childhood to believe to be an enemy of America.

Far more so than people you might expect to have anti soviet leanings, such as those from previously occupied Eastern Europe, or countries under threat from further Russian intervention.

They stand out.

It's a cheap shot I know, but still a true one. Propaganda is a word I'd have liked to have discussed in this forum, given the very varied nationalities of the posters and the no one over dominance of any single race here.

Unfortunately my esteemed fellow poster Spokeperson has pretty much already reduced that words meaning to a joke

by over and inappropriate use of it. I think it would be difficult to examine the details closer in this enviroment.

[Wolfrug 0]

Quote[/b] ] It's a good system unless you are some one like me. See I don't want to pay for other people's children, it was their choice to have children not mine I want to keep my money for my self.

You're not paying for other people's children, my good sir, you're paying for yourself. Giving a child FREE education with FREE school lunches and FREE buses/taxis and everything else costs a lot of money. What you're doing as an adult in Scandinavia is paying for the fact that you were a child once too, and as a result of all this care you're not a hobo living in a shack, but rather an educated man, able to work and think independently. And no - going to school is obligatory in Finland (for instance - the laws vary in Scandinavia) so you can't say "but I dinn't go to school so why should I pay?".

The same, my good sir, goes for everything else in the welfare state. You're paying for yourself. I understand it's hard to comprehend for someone who's never experienced it, but what you're doing is paying for every free visit to the dentist, every free visit to the clinic when they had to fix up your broken arm after a skiing accident, every free bottle of prescription medicine you got to cure that ear infection you had as a child, every road you walked down on your way to work or school that was properly maintained and safe, every building you entered that was filled with knowledgeable, educated and financially secure people, ready to help you for free, whether your business was about social insurance, healthcare, education or any other business your government took care of.

And if you happen to be so incredibly lucky as to never have had any diseases in your entire life, think about everyone else around you, think about your parents, your family, your friends. There is always someone benefiting from your taxes - if nothing else, you can walk down a street at night and not be afraid of getting robbed at gunpoint.

I don't want to get involved in this crazy discussion you're having here too much, but I just felt I had to express my thoughts on this matter. I know that I have a lifetime of work ahead of me to pay back what the state has given me, and continues to give me today - and I'll do that gladly. Anything else, well, that'd just be darned selfish wouldn't it?

Carry on.

Regards,

Wolfrug

[Commando84 0]

Yeah some people are so narrow minded :P

Like I think america would be a much better place if the did the Scandinavian model.

[USSRsniper 0]

Yeah some people are so narrow minded :P

Like I think america would be a much better place if the did the Scandinavian model.  

Too bad US will never change, because they always want to be #1 and tell everyone what to do. And mroe people hate US today, then during cold war....   And US gets really pissed off when russia goes directly opposite direction, and doesn't do what they were told. US wants to be like in sci fi movies, where american president leads the entire world... But US tends to forget that Russian can possibly do whatevere they want, ballistic missiles not only exist to destroy whole world, but also to tell others "If you mess with me, I have weapons to wipe your entire country." And US have those nukes for same reason, that why countries like Iran want nuclear weapons, so can be recognized as powerfull country with which you don't mess around. Nuclear weapons are not jsut there to kill civilians, they are also an important political tool. thats why North korean, Iran and other want to get them... Just like in everyday life, if you want to be respected you need to have muscles like Arnold Schwarzenegger

[scubaman3D 0]

Quote[/b] ]And mroe people hate US today, then during cold war....

It seems there has been a rise in the amount of useful idiots in the world, then.

[Spokesperson 0]

You are unscientific.

I accuse you of being unscientific and back that up with examples. Now you accuse me of being unscientific so give me an example.

Quote[/b] ]Scientific method is not about "argument", it is about repeatable results, measured in controlled experiments.

You haven't done any.

That isn't entirely true. Either you have repeatable results from experiments or from observations. Those results are used to back up arguments. Those have to be in line with your predictions or your theory. Otherwise you have to re-evaluate the theory.

It doesn't matter who is performing an experiment. The thing that matters is what the experiment gives. Same thing goes for the theory. And the same goes for claims and arguments.

Your logic is completely wrong.

Judging a person behind an argument is completely irrelevant. It's the argument in itself that has to be evaluated.

Your logical fallacies:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_authority

A claims B.

B is correct because A is educated in B.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

"consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim. The process of proving or disproving the claim is thereby subverted, and the argumentum ad hominem works to change the subject."

This shows you have a lack of critical thinking. You have an unscientific reasoning.

So:

Quote[/b] ]You are a school boy. A teenager. You have no idea about this subject at all.

You argue, not becuase you "are scientific", you argue because you are a fool.

What I am or do is completely irrelevant.

Quote[/b] ]Instead you seek to explain to everyone your insights into socialism, modern history, capitalism and the workplace.

Only you don't have any insights. You have no personal experience of any of those subjects. Only arguments.

Personal experience is completely irrelevant. This position, of course, doesn't say anything about the personal experience I might have as I haven't provided any information about that, as it's irrelevant for this discussion.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Guess who said this:

Quote[/b] ]An ounce of action is worth a ton of theory.

People who open up their own eyes+mind and do some trips around the world change mind & thinking - by experience. Something might look good in theory but it is questionable if it will work under real-life conditions. Humans - the most evil species of the universe.

[Commando84 0]

personal experience is king

Then people actually have a higher chance of believing what you say if you have experience in the subjects you are talking about.. just my 1 minutes of school surfing..

[Baff1 0]

What I am or do is completely irrelevant.

Along with everything you write.

Quote[/b] ]Judging a person behind an argument is completely irrelevant. It's the argument in itself that has to be evaluated.

Judging the person behind the argument saves a lot of wasted time.

Not everybodies arguments justify evaluation.

[-ZG-BUZZARD 0]

11/09/01 turns 7...

Never forget!

. (silent post)

[Spokesperson 0]

11th of September. It's been 35 years now.

State terrorism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilean_coup_of_1973#State_Terrorism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...._States

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._intervention_in_Chile

"I don't see why we need to stand by and watch a country go communist due to the irresponsibility of its own people. The issues are much too important for the Chilean voters to be left to decide for themselves." — Nobel Peace Prize winner, Henry Kissinger

"Make the economy scream" - Richard Nixon

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB8/ch26-01.htm

R. I. P.

Salvador Allende

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvador_Allende

Pablo Neruda

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pablo_Neruda

Victor Jara

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Jara

But what are they and all those tens of thousands murdered by the CIA and by the US puppet and friend of business, the market liberal, Pinochet, compared to 3000 americans killed by the US government under false flag?

What about those 100k's killed in Iraq and Afghanistan? The millions in Vietnam?

If they were terrorists, I would be more than happy to be one too!

[Commando84 0]

ok so right o' that 11th september had anything to do with us goverment funded and recruited terrorists to bomb their own people, and the Communism / socialism thing movements in south america doesn't have **** to do with 9/11...

Spokesperson what are you smoking?

Anyways let them have their grief day in peace

[Spokesperson 0]

Quote[/b] ]south america doesn't have **** to do with 9/11...

Really? Then what am I talking about?

A poem/song about 9/11:

"As I looked out my window

At the clear blue sky

At the planes that flew so low

At the smoke that rose so high

The air filled up with dust

That blackened out the sun

And the politicians went on

About the new day that had begun

And when I looked at my calendar

Somehow I knew it would be so

It was on this day in Santiago

Less than thirty years had passed

And how clearly I remember

What the city had been like

Before that day in September

There were doctors on the sidewalks

Helping those in need

Students in the barrios

Teaching children how to read

There were milk trucks in the shanties

Driving to and fro

On this day in Santiago

I could tell you about the rallies

The whole city in the street

The President was speaking

And we all were on our feet

Allende was the future

Destitution was the past

The city was in motion

And things were changing fast

Just how fast they were changing

Only Kissinger could know

On this day in Santiago

Wed been striving for a world

Without a single cardboard shack

Where each woman, man and child

Could have the basic things they lack

It was socialism by demand

Elected free and fair

A society without need or greed

Where everybody got their share

And then came Uncle Sam

With dictatorship in tow

On this day in Santiago

Anaconda Copper

And Nixon got their dream

A country torn apart

Ruptured at the seam

A fascist coup was what they wanted

And thats just what theyd get

When they sent down from Fort Benning

General Pinochet

Lady Liberty

Hung her head down low

On this day in Santiago

They dropped bombs on La Moneda

With jet planes from DC

They killed five thousand people

In our city by the sea

A reign of terror started

When they cut off Victors hands

The rivers clogged with bodies

And our blood drenched the sands

And I remember wondering

Which way future winds might blow

On this day in Santiago "

David Rovics

[echo1 0]

Seems that there Mugabe and Tsvangirai have come to some sort of deal in Zimbabwe, the details of which are rather unclear... I hope it lasts anyway, that country really needs it. See Here.

[HotShot 0]

If it is a fairly even split in terms of who controls what Ministries, I think it may crumble again in the next election (or sooner) BUT, as the MDC now have a foot hold, the next round of violence may allow them to come out even stronger and maybe Zanu-PF will be all but a distant memory in a few years time, but not before alot more rape and murder has gone on.

I was reading an article in The Week a few months ago from a commentator who felt that there were 6 Generals in charge of Zimbabwe. They had alot to loose if Mugabe stayed in control (no outside money for their commercial interests) but also alot to loose if MDC take charge (they get locked up), so this seems like the perfect outcome for them.

[Spokesperson 0]

It's evident there's economic warfare going on against Zimbabwe. If it could be made against Chile, it can be done against Zimbabwe too.

For "some" reason western media is on an anti-Mugabe campaign. You have no neutral sources to rely on. All got stirred up by the UK and US after Mugabe kicked out the land owners.

But he was too naive. He should've started to nationalise foreign companies at the same time as they can be used as instruments to undermine the economy.

[kavoven 4]

Please just ignore him

[echo1 0]

EDIT: Decided to take k@voven's advice

[Mr_Tea 0]

Please just ignore him

Off course, there is no way around.

[Balschoiw 0]

+1

All the starvation is just made up. Please ignore the dying people. They are Hollywood personel and paid by liberal capitalists from Mars.

Sing along with Spokesperson and hail Mugabe...

[Second 0]

No, i don't ignore. Again he has showed that he is out of reality... In same bizzare way, well many hard-core socialists are.

Sure there might have been actions which could be considered to be hindering economy, but yet that this would be only or even main reason for problems in Zimbabwe is plain stupidity.

Western money pouring in as help are not helping either. Wonder what is reason? I just dont' understand why Mugabe and his govermant has been taken as main target for critic by some (not all), i bet he's goverment ain't any different form most African goverments.

[Spokesperson 0]

+1

All the starvation is just made up. Please ignore the dying people. They are Hollywood personel and paid by liberal capitalists from Mars.

Sing along with Spokesperson and hail Mugabe...

Who said that?

Of course you have starvation when some powerful countries have made your "economy scream".

The western newspapers indoctrinate you to support the western candidate Tsvangirai who makes frequent visits to the west and guarantees that no nationalisations will be made, .i.e western ownership of Zimbabwe will continue.

There is starvation and worse places on earth, but those places are considered allies or puppets of the west. We're all informed about Zimbabwe and get partial information to pick sides. It's just the standard way media works. It protects the interests of the ruling class.

[Maddmatt 1]

If it is a fairly even split in terms of who controls what Ministries,...

Zimbabwe is a big f**king joke. It's amazing how, after all that, Mugabe can still be allowed all that power.

Imagine how much better things could have been if he just died

LMAO brilliant post Balschoiw

Spokesperson you must be joking. I am amazed that someone can support Mugabe and all that suffering and death. You are sick.

[echo1 0]

The western newspapers indoctrinate you to support the western candidate Tsvangirai who makes frequent visits to the west and guarantees that no nationalisations will be made, .i.e western ownership of Zimbabwe will continue.

And what have you been reading? Mugabe's website or something? Considering that even his most important allies in other African nations have been criticizing him as of late, I really doubt you are going to find anything good to be said for him from an objective source.