Albanian terror on kosovo

[Apollo 0]

Radnik ,i think nobody here really has anything against you ,youre entitled to youre oppinion as an other ,and how others interpretate youre oppinion is a matter for them.

That said could you be a deer and stop using upper case letter's? I think people will be less inclined to have a decent discussion with someone if that person uses uppercase as means to shout thing to an other.

Nationalism can be a dangerous thing Radnik especially in the Balkan's ,and youre country is still ruled by pretty nationalistic and patriotic Politicians.Just as an advice if i was you i wouldn't trust the national media that much ,in any case i would not be surprized in the goverment of Serbia would be very eager to throw every Albanian aggresion in the media to further feul Nationalistic and patriotic sentiments in the country.

I do not disagree that Serbia has much stronger territorial claims by history than Albania or ethnic albanians have.While the return of that area may be possible in the future i doubt that it will happen under the current still pretty nationalistic goverment currently ruled by Costunica(?).You must understand that if it hadn't been for all those years of nationalistc goverment after the Yougoslavian breakup that Serbia (or yougoslavia) could have been in a much better shape now ,but then the Serbian goverment always had to solve a problem with brute force.

[Radnik 18]

@ denoir

Official ,media source, summary of albanian terror on march 17-19. is:

35 orthodox churchs and monastery  was burned to ground, demolished and looted.

no comment

[denoir 0]

Now here's something original [bBC]

Quote[/b] ]

Serbia votes to 'pay Milosevic'

The Serbian parliament has adopted a controversial bill which provides financial compensation and state benefits to war crimes suspects.

It applies to former President Slobodan Milosevic and other Serbs held at the UN war crimes tribunal in the Hague.

Serbia's foreign minister dubbed the move - which makes it possible for them to get taxpayers' money for legal and other expenses - as irresponsible.  It comes ahead of a crucial US decision on whether to give Serbia more aid.  The BBC's Nick Hawton in Belgrade reports says the decision - involving millions of US dollars - depends on whether Washington believes Serbia has been co-operating fully with The Hague and helping to extradite more indictees. The legislation was proposed by the strongly nationalist Serbian Radical Party and was backed by parliament and the newly elected Prime Minister Vojislav Kostunica.

The law calls for all those indicted for war crimes to be paid monthly compensation for lost salaries and legal fees.  It also provides financial help to families of the accused to cover travel expenses, hotel and visa costs and phone bills. The coalition Serbian government - which includes Mr Milosevic's Socialist Party - has already made it clear that sending more indictees to The Hague is not one of its priorities.

Opponents described the move as a poorly-disguised gesture of defiance to the West and a pay-off to the Socialists for their backing of Mr Kostunica's minority government.

"What Radicals want is for the state to pay Slobodan Milosevic," Mr Svilanovic said.

The new law is unlikely to be welcomed in Washington, our correspondent says.

[akm74 1]

Clinton administration create Albanian-Taliban right in the middle of Europe, with the hope, “…it will eat them lastâ€. Think didn’t work this way, we all learn it couple of years ago. Animal will remain animal, it will bait you anytime it want, Islamic f_heads didn’t play by the rule, you can’t please them. I hope other countries will learn from now.

[Radnik 18]

well denoir,

i do not like mine goverment, and don give a s**** what they do ( they all the same for me ).

(Personally i thing it should be judged Milosevic here i Serbia not i Hague, like Saddam in Iraq, he harmed more his people then around him, Bosnia, Kosovo...)

...You did not say a word for those vandalism on Kosovo made by Albanian, some time a go you post me a picture of mob in Belgrade burning mosque, that mob is not same as mod on Kosovo 17-19.03 (albanian terrorists) .

Albanians have strategy, thay make mess is Mitrovica where KFOR is ,then all KFOR soldiers are hunting with them, than the rest of "mobs" go out and burn all around Mitrovica an Kosovo where there is no KFOR :;)

[ralphwiggum 6]

Clinton administration create Albanian-Taliban right in the middle of Europe, with the hope, “…it will eat them lastâ€. Think didn’t work this way, we all learn it couple of years ago.  Animal will remain animal, it will bait you anytime it want, Islamic f_heads didn’t play by the rule, you can’t please them. I hope other countries will learn from now.

excuse me? just because they are muslims, doesn't mean they are terrorist.

in fact, i think this comment is way off.

[denoir 0]

(Personally i thing it should be judged Milosevic here i Serbia not i Hague, like Saddam in Iraq, he harmed more his people then around him, Bosnia, Kosovo...)

Messing up your economy and promoting corruption can hardly be equated to the genocide he was responsible outside of Serbia.

Quote[/b] ]...You did not say a word for those vandalism on Kosovo made by Albanian, some time a go you post me a picture of mob in Belgrade burning mosque, that mob is not same as mod on Kosovo 17-19.03 (albanian terrorists) .

Didn't I say a word?

..

I saw this on BBC:

Quote[/b] ]The latest violence has been reported in the town of Obilic, west of the capital, Pristina - where a Serb Orthodox church is being burned and local Serbs have been evacuated.

I've been to Obilic on several occasions.. I think I know the church they are talking about. There used to be a large JNA radar array and some barracks there that we inspected a couple of times.

It's equally bad. I hate to use clichés as 'both sides are equally responsible', but in '98/'99 mosques were burned in Kosovo and now five years later churches are being burnt. This time it Albanian mobs, before it was Serbian paramilitary units.

The point that I have been trying to convey to you is that Serbia is not an innocent victim in all of this. The actual people getting hurt most likely are, but that's always the case. If I wanted to be cynical I would say that Serbia had it coming. I mean this is not new in the region. Serbian paramilitary units did it all over the place. You have the Vukovar trials now, right? And so now it happens in Serbia and you cry in outrage about Albanian terrorism. I mean, where was your outrage when Sarajevo was shelled continuously for years? Where was your outrage with Srebrenica? Or if you want to take Kosovo example - where was your outrage when Serbian military and paramilitary units systematically destroyed Albanian property and created a mass exodus?

It does not justify what the Albanians did now, but it certainly puts your victimization of yourself into perspective.

The sad thing is that it's always the innocents that get caught in between. You have radicals of one faction making something nasty and you get a response from the radicals of the other faction. Unfortunately it's always the regular people that get caught in-between. Having said that, I do however expect more from Serbia, which after all is supposed to be a modern European country.

[Radnik 18]

...Let talk about Srebrenica and Vukovar some other time, if we meet once    we can talk as much as you and i want .

(i mentioned earlier bosnia, topic is about Kosovo)

LETS PUT TIME MASHINE  (or else we can go back to Kosovo battle on year 1389 )

...as for Milosevic and his genocide, the problem is that Hague does not have a proof ( by that i mean anything what directly indicate or point to Milosevic ) and a single argument against Milosevic, only have stories from pl, some witness of war crimes and all his politic and war enemies ( like generals of UN troops in time of Bosnian civil war and others) but a single proof do not indicate to Milosevic directly like yes he order to kill here is a vidio tape, or radio, telephone conversation ... you know what i meen

Here we have a general responsibility, he can't be responsible for actions of one or couple or hundreds "UNLESS" he order them...it's same as : Bush would be responsible for act one or couple of soldiers for killing iraqies.( i know, general it cant be compare but its similary )

don't get me wrong, i don't say he didn't done that ( order ), just want to say that Hague is powerless against him,

...you, I and Hague and he knows but...proof, proof...

...forget to say, after we should judge him here he would go to Hague than.  

EU/KFOR are not ready for Albanian terrorists way of acting, you'l see Kosovo in about 2-3 years if there's no Serbs left.

EU will have a big problem with Albanian terrorists running the country.

[Apollo 0]

Radnik ,as head of state Milosovic had a reponsibilety over the Serbian troops.Even if he didn't directly order the killing of civilian's from certain ethnic origin ,since the etnic cleansing was done by various millitary and millitia forces (Arkan's yellow tigers for ex.) ,Milosovic would still be supposed to be informed about such events ,and if he wouldn't have been aware of it it would have been a sign of hughe neglect of wich he would also be responsible.A head of state is supposed to be informed and on top of about anything that happens in the country ,definatly about troop movement and conduct.The President with his cabinet set's out the policy for millitary matters ,wars are organized by politicians who then order their commanders to do their job according to commands and a a number of policy rules .If these's policy's lack rule's that prevent ethnic cleansing from the part of the millitary than thats the responsibilety of politics.Granted in cases of minor ethnic cleansing by a selected few then the responsibilety will be laid by this group ,but when ethnic cleansing happens on such scale then it's hard to believe that the President would not be aware of it.

[denoir 0]

don't get me wrong, i don't say he didn't done that ( order ), just want to say that Hague is powerless against him,

...you, I and Hague and he knows but...proof, proof....

That I agree with. And the main reason for that I'd say is that the Hague handled the trial in a most incompetent way. They rushed it becuase of US pressure and they were ill prepared. I still think he will be convicted though.

[Radnik 18]

That I agree with.

i can't believe my eyes you actually agree with me

Now i have to agree with Apollo, he was well informed about every single military and police action as president

...you know as well   but can you send/post me some kinda proof for that what you are saying ? No, right ?

denoir, reason for cuting talk to just Kosovo is for goodness both of us, its far to complicate situation on, right ?

though still i wish to talk with you and Apollo about this theme ...:;):

P.S. if you are watching Discovery Channel, watch tonight at 23:00 reporters at war ( you'l see why)

[margahills 0]

I think Radnik has a very strong point here. Just try to think of it from his point of view, it makes me angry when everything goes against Serbs and things are distorted by the world media. Serbia has a very complicated history, like Radnik said we could talk for hours. The truth doesn't matter, it's what has been said about Serbs will stick - lies or not. Some truth has come out about the 1999 bombing i.e. number of NATO failures and "accidents", US supporting Muslim KLA etc but it is too late and people don't care/don't listen. They still remember Milosevic and war crimes and that's created a bad reputation that will stay around for a long time..

[ralphwiggum 6]

.

http://www.cnn.com/2004....ex.html

Quote[/b] ]SARAJEVO, Bosnia-Herzegovina (AP) -- Bosnian Serb officials have acknowledged for the first time that their security forces carried out the massacre of up to 8,000 Muslims at Srebrenica, according to an investigative report Friday.

An official commission examining Europe's worst massacre since World War II "established participation of (Bosnian Serb) military and police units, including special (police) units" in the deaths, international administration spokesman Vedran Persic told The Associated Press, quoting from the panel's report.

During the height of the three and a half-year Bosnian war, Serb troops overran a U.N.-declared safe zone in Srebrenica and slaughtered up to 8,000 Muslim men and boys in what the U.N. war crimes tribunal has declared an act of genocide.

The Bosnian Serbs have long been blamed for the 1995 massacre, but no official has clearly acknowledged that until now.

"In July 1995, several thousand Muslims were liquidated in a way that represents grave violations of international humanitarian law," said Persic, quoting from the report. Persic is a spokesman for Paddy Ashdown, Bosnia's international administrator.

U.N. and Muslim experts have found the remains of about 5,000 of the victims from mass graves across eastern Bosnia and find new remains every month. The fate of the others is still unknown. Nearly 1,200 Srebrenica victims have been identified through DNA analysis.

The Srebrenica Commission was formed last year by Ashdown to investigate who was involved in the massacre and where victims' bodies were buried. It's composed of Bosnian Serb judges and lawyers, a victims' representative and international expert.

The report said that the perpetrators "undertook measures to cover up the crime by moving the bodies" to other locations, said Persic.

[margahills 0]

One has to ask: Why does the US government and media excuse “revenge killings†in Kosovo and not in Srebrenica? Why isn’t the so-called massacre in 1995 merely a retaliatory revenge killing? Of course, only proxies and clients of the US can engage in “revenge killings.†Legally, murder is murder. There is no such thing as a “revenge killing†as US propaganda maintains.

Now it's time for the Albanians and Bosnian Muslims to admit what they've done.

They are not under pressure from the UN to do so.

They're not liable to lose finacial assistance if they don't.

They're not liable to be left out of the EU if they don't.

They're not portrayed as the single enemy, the good and bad, that we all need to understand.

[ralphwiggum 6]

all that (if it happened) Albanian "retaliation"?

the word says it all. it was reaction to something and that was Serbian's fault. If they didn't attack Albanians it would not have happend. If serbia came clean back then it would not have happened.

[4 IN 1 0]

i know someone who was a part of UNPF(French Foreign Legion,1st REC) back in 95, been there twice,nearly being kissed by Death for numbers of time, i think he might have a better view on the hold crap happened there(which i dont really want to ask him, as it is a painful memory for him)

[ran 0]

i know someone who was a part of UNPF(French Foreign Legion,1st REC) back in 95, been there twice,nearly being kissed by Death for numbers of time, i think he might have a better view on the hold crap happened there(which i dont really want to ask him, as it is a painful memory for him)

Ohh a 1st REC horseman ? hehe ...

UNPROFOR was a bitch, we all came back from it in the same psychological shape (except mbe the cooks and post-office eploees). Don't ask him about it, t wil ome natraly nd one day he may become abit more talkative on the subject as time heals wounds.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

Whilst on the subject, I recommend "Warriors", a BBC production on a British unit that was sent down there as part of the UN force.

Sad

[4 IN 1 0]

i know someone who was a part of UNPF(French Foreign Legion,1st REC) back in 95, been there twice,nearly being kissed by Death for numbers of time, i think he might have a better view on the hold crap happened there(which i dont really want to ask him, as it is a painful memory for him)

Ohh a 1st REC horseman ? hehe ...

UNPROFOR was a bitch, we all came back from it in the same psychological shape (except mbe the cooks and post-office eploees). Don't ask him about it, t wil ome natraly nd one day he may become abit more talkative on the subject as time heals wounds.

being the first one who got the balls to grab an emety FAMAS to make a bayonet run inorder to save some 2nd REP guys since the first gulf war in the Foreign Legion history, i wish you are right.

[ran 0]

i know someone who was a part of UNPF(French Foreign Legion,1st REC) back in 95, been there twice,nearly being kissed by Death for numbers of time, i think he might have a better view on the hold crap happened there(which i dont really want to ask him, as it is a painful memory for him)

Ohh a 1st REC horseman ? hehe ...

UNPROFOR was a bitch, we all came back from it in the same psychological shape (except mbe the cooks and post-office eploees). Don't ask him about it, t wil ome natraly nd one day he may become abit more talkative on the subject as time heals wounds.

being the first one who got the balls to grab an emety FAMAS to make a bayonet run inorder to save some 2nd REP guys since the first gulf war in the Foreign Legion history, i wish you are right.

It was only 4 years after the Gulf war.

I hope he got a National Merit medal for what he did, I got mines for what i've been able to accomplish.

But I doubt what has marked the most your friend about his tour in Bosnia was his firefights and other engagements. (if it's the same as what I and all my buddies and fellow legionnaire who made it back with whom i'm still in contact feel).

[4 IN 1 0]

i know someone who was a part of UNPF(French Foreign Legion,1st REC) back in 95, been there twice,nearly being kissed by Death for numbers of time, i think he might have a better view on the hold crap happened there(which i dont really want to ask him, as it is a painful memory for him)

Ohh a 1st REC horseman ? hehe ...

UNPROFOR was a bitch, we all came back from it in the same psychological shape (except mbe the cooks and post-office eploees). Don't ask him about it, t wil ome natraly nd one day he may become abit more talkative on the subject as time heals wounds.

being the first one who got the balls to grab an emety FAMAS to make a bayonet run inorder to save some 2nd REP guys since the first gulf war in the Foreign Legion history, i wish you are right.

It was only 4 years after the Gulf war.

I hope he got a National Merit medal for what he did, I got mines for what i've been able to accomplish.

But I doubt what has marked the most your friend about his tour in Bosnia was his firefights and other engagements. (if it's the same as what I and all my buddies and fellow legionnaire who made it back with whom i'm still in contact feel).

he did get a medal for that(which one i forgoted need to check back), as the 2nd REP guys had been pinned down, and close to be wiped out, if it is not him and his fellows they would have been dead.

it is hard for me to say what marked him the most back in those days as i was not there, and also because the story is being told in chiness(well you know it is hard to turn something writen in chiness into english)

what i could tell is that he is a real good soldier(he is now a 2nd Ltn in ADF)

[Radnik 18]

...@Ralph

Why u do that ?   ...every time when someone say something different, same as denoir, some of you use the same tactics...theme is about Kosovo and you right away post about Bosnia (Srebrenica) and Serbs crime...(i'm shure that there was but each time m8...)

...in that way Serbs will be the Barbarians and cary that mark as much as Germans with Hitler on their back for senturies, right ?

...each time when some German say something on any war theme i'l post him a Adolf Hitlers picture just in case he doese not know....

[denoir 0]

Kosovo and Bosnia were part of the same campaign that Serbia under Milosevic waged against neighboring nations.

Excluding Bosina from the Kosovo discussion would be plain wrong as they are very much connected. The Milosevic campaign started 1989 in Kosovo and ended 1999 in Kosovo. It's part of the same gig.

Now, if you are so worried about your reputation, you should instead worry about who you elect. You should primarily be worried about not electing hard core nationalists advocating a "Greater Serbia" in both your parliamentary elections and presidential elections. If anything, that's what drags Sebria's reputation down today.

[4 IN 1 0]

Kosovo and Bosnia were part of the same campaign that Serbia under Milosevic waged against neighboring nations.

Excluding Bosina from the Kosovo discussion would be plain wrong as they are very much connected. The Milosevic campaign started 1989 in Kosovo and ended 1999 in Kosovo. It's part of the same gig.

Now, if you are so worried about your reputation, you should instead worry about who you elect. You should primarily be worried about not electing hard core nationalists advocating a "Greater Serbia" in both your parliamentary elections and presidential elections. If anything, that's what drags Sebria's reputation down today.

the first, single body campaign had ended at 1995, and replaced by 3 different operation, it is when the shits happen,the Netherlands save zone being overran, result in the slaughtering of min. of 8000 Muslim (actural number is much higher then this) and the Netherland troops being taken hostages(the same thing in quote RalphWiggum posted)

the Netherlands troops did all they could do, they only got 1 company man power and being cutoff from behind(only about 11% of the supprly make its way to the save zone), what they face is the Sreb 3rd army...........

[Radnik 18]

the Netherlands troops did all they could do, they only got 1 company man power and being cutoff from behind(only about 11% of the supprly make its way to the save zone), what they face is the Sreb 3rd army...........

thay allso took away a Grizzly, correct me if i'm wrong, (or there was a 6 HMMWVes i think, from Holland U.N troops...?) and tie-down them to trees...

...and that's way war crime tribunal for former republic of Yugoslavia is in Hague, Holland