Albanian terror on kosovo

[ralphwiggum 6]

...@Ralph

Why u do that ?   ...every time when someone say something different, same as denoir, some of you use the same tactics...theme is about Kosovo and you right away post about Bosnia (Srebrenica) and Serbs crime...(i'm shure that there was but each time m8...)

...in that way Serbs will be the Barbarians and cary that mark as much as Germans with Hitler on their back for senturies, right ?

why i do that? ask Milosevic. just as Hitler murdered jewish, Serbians performed ethnic cleansing. Serbian never acknowledged the fact until now and is still refusing to pay the price of their action.

If serbs didn't want this to happen, they should have done something, but not much has been done. now that they are getting what they sewn, serbians are whining.

Quote[/b] ]...each time when some German say something on any war theme i'l post him a Adolf Hitlers picture just in case he doese not know....

difference is that Germany now tries to learn from its mistakes while Serbs aren't.

[ralphwiggum 6]

Now, if you are so worried about your reputation, you should instead worry about who you elect. You should primarily be worried about not electing hard core nationalists advocating a "Greater Serbia" in both your parliamentary elections and presidential elections. If anything, that's what drags Sebria's reputation down today.

indeed. just look at US right now.

[theavonlady 2]

Now, if you are so worried about your reputation, you should instead worry about who you elect. You should primarily be worried about not electing hard core nationalists advocating a "Greater Serbia" in both your parliamentary elections and presidential elections. If anything, that's what drags Sebria's reputation down today.

indeed. just look at US right now.

Neither US candidate advocates a greater Serbia.

[ralphwiggum 6]

Now, if you are so worried about your reputation, you should instead worry about who you elect. You should primarily be worried about not electing hard core nationalists advocating a "Greater Serbia" in both your parliamentary elections and presidential elections. If anything, that's what drags Sebria's reputation down today.

indeed. just look at US right now.

Neither US candidate advocates a greater Serbia.

no, just suburbia.

[Radnik 18]

why i do that? ask Milosevic. just as Hitler murdered jewish, Serbians performed ethnic cleansing. Serbian never acknowledged the fact until now and is still refusing to pay the price of their action.

...WTF is the point of this crap , to get Serbs equal with Hitler in WWII  

...and please when you say Serbs be specific, not all people of Serbia went or was in Bosnia m8, many of them was forced and 80% was Bosnian Serbs, if i remember corectly on march 9th 1991, 500.000 people protest in Belgrade as well as 5th october 2000 was more than 700.000 people against Milosevic and his shits, but he was to strong...(why Iraqi people did not brake down Saddam ? and why is now so many who are steel support him ?), people was afraid back than m8, you could'n just go out on street and say i do not want to go in war you know, and lots of criminals was sent to Bosnia...

...those about Great Serbia, that is ilusion now, Serbia is to tired for these shits, i mean we lost 3 wars, U.N. sanctions, bla bla bla... long 14 years

[iNeo 0]

why i do that? ask Milosevic. just as Hitler murdered jewish, Serbians performed ethnic cleansing. Serbian never acknowledged the fact until now and is still refusing to pay the price of their action.

If serbs didn't want this to happen, they should have done something, but not much has been done. now that they are getting what they sewn, serbians are whining.

Ralph, what you are doing is equal to blaming the Iraqi people for what Hussein did and like blaming the Germans of today for what Hitler did. Certainly not everyone believes in what those guys did, and for sure not everyone of them took part in the crimes. You can't justify Albanians killing civilian Serbs on that ground ("now that they are getting what they sewn, serbians are whining").

[somebloke 0]

Serbia and Albania are the European versions of Israel and Palestine, always bickering and blowing each other up. hen when one side loses people, they ask for help, then they whine about the help not being good enough, then they go and attack the other side who does the same thing. It's just stupid.

Most of that may be of my nieve thoughts on the situation but getting mad at people from other countries isn't going to help you sort out your country.

[ralphwiggum 6]

why i do that? ask Milosevic. just as Hitler murdered jewish, Serbians performed ethnic cleansing. Serbian never acknowledged the fact until now and is still refusing to pay the price of their action.

...WTF is the point of this crap , to get Serbs equal with Hitler in WWII  

...and please when you say Serbs be specific, not all people of Serbia went or was in Bosnia m8, many of them was forced and 80% was Bosnian Serbs, if i remember corectly on march 9th 1991, 500.000 people protest in Belgrade as well as 5th october 2000 was more than 700.000 people against Milosevic and his shits, but he was to strong...(why Iraqi people did not brake down Saddam ? and why is now so many who are steel support him ?), people was afraid back than m8, you could'n just go out on street and say i do not want to go in war you know, and lots of criminals was sent to Bosnia...

...those about Great Serbia, that is ilusion now, Serbia is to tired for these shits, i mean we lost 3 wars, U.N. sanctions, bla bla bla... long 14 years

and what did election result come out to be after US bombing?

during 10 yrs, how many elections was held?

[Iva 0]

after bombint in 1999 there were 4 elections!!!

And about war in bosnia! You know how they saw you need 2 people for fight! And for kosovo!! Situation was nice, until tito died! When he died many presidends were after him trying to make situation on kosovo peaceful! Albanians tryed to take over kosovo! Miloshevic didnt let them have it! Albanians tryed that same shit in Macedonia! But the didnt sucedded!

Because in Macedonia were NAto forces! Now when Kosovo is under UN its like we gave it to Albania!

And as radnik said you couldnt just go on streets and yell "Kostunicu for President! " or "Miloshevicu, Save serbia an kill yourself"! Because you live in america and your politicians serve you shit like "Serbians are animals! They are killing albanians all over the place"! This situation is similar to chechenya!! But we had right to protect part of our country!

And why didnt you bomb russia when they started way over chechenya!!!

[denoir 0]

And why didnt you bomb russia when they started way over chechenya!!!

Because the Russians have bigger bombs.

It could also have something to do with Milosevic starting wars in Croatia and Bosnia before that. I mean, starting one war, you can dismiss as an accident. Two wars looks very sloppy. But three.. you have to draw the line somewhere, if you catch my drift.

[Iva 0]

Firs for war in Bosnia Miloshevic, Alija and Tudjman were to blame. Not only Miloshevic!! If only he was to blame it would be like to bomb Chicago because they are not satisfyed whit USA!!! Second war was started by albanian! They attacked serbian people all ower kosovo! Military intervened to stop atacking! Third war wasnt war! You bombed us! We couldnt eaven defend! We vere helples!

[denoir 0]

You bombed us! We couldnt eaven defend! We vere helples!

Kind of made you understand how the Albanians were feeling, eh?

[Iva 0]

they atacked us first!! We didnt atacked you!!

[denoir 0]

they atacked us first!! We didnt atacked you!!

Hardly. It started in 88-89 with the complete removal of all minority rights, jailing of Albanian leaders, closing of Albanian schools etc

In '98 the Albanians saw their chance and started rebelling. Which prompted Serbia under Milosevic once again to begin a campaign of ethnical cleansing: this time against the Albanians. After several issued warnings NATO intervened out of humanitarian reasons.

[Iva 0]

Minority rights were roemoved by Tito and that was because they took advantage of it. Yheir leaders vere jailed because they prepared masive atacks on serbia! If that was not done, kosovo would be now under albaanian borders

[denoir 0]

No, no, no. We're talking about 1988. Milosevic made his career with his political crackdowns in Kosovo. Tito died in 1980 - this is far later. And it's actually the other way around, Tito increased the freedoms of Albanians. It's becuase of him Kosovo got the status of an "autonomous province", instead of being just a part of Serbia.

[Iva 0]

No... Tito calmed down situation on kosovo and everone was happy! whe he died everyting went to hell! Albanians started terorising serbian population! and when misloshevic becom president he ordered to send military down to kosovo to cam situation!!

[Apollo 0]

The recent ellection results in Serbia are positive though ,with democrat Tadic winning over nationalist Nikolic ,Serbia could be moving closer to Europe over the next years if Tadic can put trough the democratic reforms that Europe wants it to do.

Though the results show still large support for the nationalist cause ,wich hopefully will lower in the future.

Personally ,i acknowledge certain Serbian territorial rights in Kosovo ,and it's sad to see that the consequences of Nato action also means that ethnic Albanian's are becoming the majority by far in kosovo. (ethnic shift's in such a region are never good)

Still i have supported the goal of the Kosovo war ,i have some criticism as how the situation was handled on the ground but millitary opperations of that magnitude are complicated enough. The timframe for the preperations for war were short as the decleration of war was send shortly after an ultimatum that was an reaction of the situation as it was unfolding then.

Right now though ,Serbia is in need of funds to rebuild it's shatterd infrastructure ,and i hope that Should the democrat's be able to put trough nessecary reforms ,that the E.U and the U.S.A will seriously consider to send development funds ,and hopefully not petty loans with "light" interrest rate's.But i think Serbia can be relative positive on that ,Serbia's position in europe make's it important for the E.U to let it strive for a democratic goverment that is stable ,economical dependancy is a very good way to stability.

And should Serbia eventually become a very democratic country that doesn't press it's territorial claims backed by weapons then a return of kosovo or atleast part of it to Serbia might be conceivable.

[Iva 0]

Nationalizm is rising day, by day due to scepticism to Democaty! You aknowlage certain Serbian territorial rights to Kosovo? Dude serbia become serbia on kosovo! We will not let the have it! Economicly serbia is in deep shit! Only way to brig back kosovo is another war! But we need to get nato and usa on our side before final showdown!

[hellfish6 7]

But we need to get nato and usa on our side before final showdown!

Yeah... that'll happen.

[Apollo 0]

Iva be real. Noone will tolerate war in that region by Serbia ever again "Yougoslavia" is a term that carries a lot of possible territorial claims with it ,and Serbia has tried to press them in the past with disaterous results.

That nationalism is still strong in Serbia can be seen trough the ellection results ,know that these nationalist thoughts are dangerous and only reson can result in better cooperation in fair treatment ,in that sense should Serbia become well democratic it should be easier for them to press claims by diplomacy on Kosovo wich in the moment is still in a politicly transitional phase.

I do not doubt however ,that in the past and even in the present nationalist sentiments are quite promoted by the local media ,and i guess media in milosovic's day was sheer proppaganda.

I am european ,and i am also belgian and flemmish.When it concern's Belgian or flemmish nationalism ,i feel nothing for it.With the effects of globalization and the European intigration i find such "localized" nationalism frankly outdated ,even negative for adaption to evolution.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

I am european ,and i am also belgian and flemmish.When it concern's Belgian or flemmish nationalism ,i feel nothing for it.With the effects of globalization and the European intigration i find such "localized" nationalism frankly outdated ,even negative for adaption to evolution.

The problem with Kosovo is, it is an area which is highly important to Serb history and their national identity. It in the 14th century (I think) where the Serbs stood their ground in Kosovo against the Turks. They got slaughtered of course, but nonetheless it is important to them in that it carries a big meaning in their national conscience.

Imagine Ghettysburg being given back to Indians, despite its meaning to the Americans. Imagine ALbanians occupying ancient Thermopylae. Imagine Versailles being occupied by...I dunno...Basques? Some areas belong to a national conscience, and taking them away from a nation can be very very dangerous.

Mind you, the way Serbia has been acting the past 15 or so years, they deserve nothing better. However, I hope the UN sees sense and does not add Kosovo to Albania. The way it works at the moment (some federal-type independence from Serbia, just like Montenegro) is the best solution at the moment, and I hope it will remain so.

[Apollo 0]

Quote[/b] ]Imagine Ghettysburg being given back to Indians, despite its meaning to the Americans. Imagine ALbanians occupying ancient Thermopylae. Imagine Versailles being occupied by...I dunno...Basques? Some areas belong to a national conscience, and taking them away from a nation can be very very dangerous.

Afcourse ,but then one could go very far with such claims.Iva argued Kosovo bolonged to Serbia as it is the cradle of their civilization ,however what is the modern day worth of such an argument? The Franks originated from Germania ,the Germans from Scandinavia ,the English from the Scandinavian's to ,The turks have their cradle of civilization in upper Mongolia ,then again you won't give back all that land to them.

I live in Ypers and this has been a battlefield for the whole duration of WWI.There are countless Brits ,French ,Canadians ,Germans and what not burried over here.There are momunments to ,for about all nationality's ,and tourists from abroad come to visit it.You don't need the actuall ground of a battlefield in possesion to be able to have it's significance honoured in their national history.

Territorial claims should be decided by the ethnic structure of a the region.

Btw there is also a possibility for Kosovo to be with Serbia again however with it's own localized goverment ,like the Scots have in the UK.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

Well, it all depends really, doesnt it. If you tell a Turk that he's Mongolian, he will slap you

If you tell him Constantinople is Greek, he will slap you again. If you will tell me that I actually meant to say Istanbul, I will slap you

Do you understand what I mean? It may not be rational, but fact is, patriotic and even nationalistic feelings can be aroused by certain areas - mucking about with those areas is very dangerous.

[Apollo 0]

Quote[/b] ]If you tell a Turk that he's Mongolian, he will slap you

I did not say they were Mongolians ,only that they do originate from the Mongolian plains.

They are descendants of Turkomen tribe's who in that time lived around mongolia ,but due to conflict and popullation growth in Mongolia these tribe's were chased out and had to find new land ,this way they eventually landed in Turkey.

Quote[/b] ] If you tell him Constantinople is Greek, he will slap you again. If you will tell me that I actually meant to say Istanbul, I will slap you

Oh i understand all to well ,i know that as Byzantine Capital it was mostly a Greek city and to most Greeks it's still that ,and actually there are a lot of ethnic greeks living in and around Konstantinople/Istanbul ,almost as much as Turks.

Btw in their war against the Turks just after the turn of the century (190?) the Greeks actually occupied Byzatium for some time yes? As far as i know when the Greeks took most of their lands back they wanted to take Byzatium to ,but there was just not enough international backing to do such a thing ,in fact many great powers in Europe warned Greece for annexing istanbul ,so they didn't.

But as you see ,territorial claims founded on territorial shift's is a bad idea ,as history is full of it and there are many cases where multiple nations can put historical claims on the same region.(Even France and the Neetherlands could theoreticly have claims on the whole of Belgium)

But in a modern context ,ethnic composition of a region is important.If you have a region occupied by Turks where 90% of the poppulation is ethnic greek ,than in My oppinion in a modern day context greece has a very valuable claim on that region WHEN that region should fall into a situation of ethnic conflict.Because of the trouble's and the illigality of ethnic cleansing it's best to keep 2 warring ethnicity's from eachother ,and to promote peace it's best to split the two ethnicity's of eachother and give terrain to the one or another in order of ethnic composition in a region.