Us presidential election 2004

[denoir 0]

Kerry did better than I expected - he made a pretty strong and consistent argumet against Bush.

On the other hand, Bush is Bush. His rethorics is the same it has always been, and that seems to be working for him.

[DB-ERAUPilot 0]

what I don't get about bush is he brags about being consistent..well being is consistent can be a bad thing especially when your consistently WRONG

[red oct 2]

and thats one thing Kerry brough up. another thing about this consistence is how bush was praticly a Broken record through the whole debate. thats one thing people don't seem to like and its one thing that they warned earlier on what not to do. Kerry at least explained a exit stradegy for Iraq. Bush did not. and when Bush said Kerry wasn't "consistent" he explained that there was a Right way to deal w/ Iraq and a wrong way. another thing people might notice is how Kerry said he was going to start programs that would moniter shipping ports better security at airlines ect... and Bush just scoffed and said "I'd like to know how your going to pay for that" than right after you here him talking this is getting $20 Billion thats getting $80 Billion they are getting $200 million.

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

I was pretty dissapointed in Bush tonight. He could have ripped Kerry up onside and down the other if he was half way good at communicating. Kerry had the style, but he really had no depth to what he said. Nor could he even defend hinself against what Bush said about him changing his ideas all the time. Bush did seem a little shakey, but what he said had more depth to it, whethere you agree or not. I hope Mr.B can do a little better in these next debates, becuase that all it will take in my opinion to seal this election for him.

[FSPilot 0]

I didn't see the whole thing, but I thought Bush did a lot better than Kerry.

Guess I'm one of the only Bush supporters on this forum too.

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

I didn't see the whole thing, but I thought Bush did a lot better than Kerry.

Guess I'm one of the only Bush supporters on this forum too.

Buddy I am right there with ya! We are a couple of Bush twins........

[walker 0]

Hi all

The earliest polls on the debate show John F. Kerry taking a commanding lead in the Debate By as much as 70%.

George Bush junior's weakness on Iraq and homeland defense was evident in his defensive and some times stumbling replies, clearly sweating he finds answering questions in public even when rehearsed a bit of a stretch. When asailed by John F. Kerry on the “a colossal error of judgment† in taking America into the mistaken quagmire of Iraq George Bush junior ran to hide behind the flag and US soldiers in the field rather than answere the question about his judgement.

John F. Kerry went after the errors of the Texan for fighting “the wrong war at the wrong time.†and waisting the lives of US service men and women. He went on to casigate the texan for the waist of tax payers money on the war in Iraq when the money would be better spent beefing up defences at home "Why are we opening Fire Stations in Iraq but closing them here in our Homeland? Fireman, our first responders." and "$500 million going over to Iraq to put police officers in the streets of Iraq, and the president is cutting the COPS program in America?"  Hiting the Texan on his damaging of US foreign relations John F. Kerry's bold statement of the facts the US needs allies in the fight against terrorism  and that the texan had slandered so many former US allies that it will tke years to repair that trust.

The Debate left no room for doubt that John F. Kerry as president would make the US safe again.

Kind Regards Walker

[Blake 0]

Quote[/b] ]I didn't see the whole thing, but I thought Bush did a lot better than Kerry.

I'm not particular fan of neither of the candidates but I really did expect Bush to do better.

[Bernadotte 0]

I hope Mr.B can do a little better in these next debates, becuase that all it will take in my opinion to seal this election for him.

Tonight's main theme was homeland security and the war on terrorism - the 2 issues where Bush has held the greatest lead over Kerry in public opinion polls.  But did Bush mop the floor with Kerry, as the American public might have expected?  Hardly. Although I have seen Kerry do much better.

I seriously doubt that Kerry will lose as much ground in the next debates on domestic issues as Bush lost tonight on foreign relations and terrorism.

I didn't see the whole thing, but I thought Bush did a lot better than Kerry.

FS, you may want to save up some of your attention span for next week's Edwards/Cheney debate.

Expect bloodshed.  

[FSPilot 0]

Simply stunning.

http://www.youforgotpoland.com

Thats, what, 3 hours?

edit - looking at the source "props out to the RateBeer crew. Rate On Raters! mj"

Michael Jackson?

[sputnik monroe 102]

I cringed at the idea of looking at this thread after the debate. I decided though what the hell and clicked on it. I expected nothing but Kerry Rules and personal attacks thrown back and forth. I'm a little surprised by one of you though.

    Denoir seems actually rather objective. I think I respect you a little more now. I expected more Bush is stupid coupled with some  mouth foaming rabid retoric. I know your  probably %100 for Kerry, but at least you come across as some one worth discussing politics with.

    Akira and Balschoiws post were rather predictible. I got what I expected from each of their post. "Pfft did you see him, he stuttered what F'ing retard" and "what a dumb ass he looks funny" seemed to be the gyst of their post.

     Walker I place your post at the far opposite end of the spectrum from Denoirs post. Your post were so condescending it's hilarious. You don't post what you got fomr it so much as you post what we were supposed to get from it. Come on we all watched it we'll make our own minds up.

     Where as Denoir style is " It'll be interesting to see what the polls say". Yours is "The Debate left no room for doubt that John F. Kerry as president would make the US safe again."   Basically Denoir is objective and discusses the event, where as you just spout out more cheerleading.

     So in short, Denoir= Discussion and debate

                     Walker= Cheerleading and inquisition

     As for my personal feelings about the presidential debate. I thought it was interesting. I think Bush could of done better, but that goes with out saying any time he speaks in public. The man is bad speaker.

    I don't think Kerry was that bad at all. He tried to make clear what his intentions are if elected while attacking the presidents record. I'm not going to lambast him for attacking the president, that's politics. No one gets elected by pointing out the strengths of their opponent.

    I'm actually looking forward to the town hall debate more. I guess most people say the town hall style is the lame duck of the debates. I on the other hand find it the most interesting.

[billybob2002 0]

Why the hell does Kerry keep saying that he can bring in the more europeans in Iraq? German and French leaders said no already if Kerry is elected. Did Kerry say Treblinka Square? Also, note to kerry, $200 billion has not been spent. I cannot remember but did Bush talk about the Nato training..  Anyway, DRAW... both of them made valid points..

[Bernadotte 0]

Simply stunning.

http://www.youforgotpoland.com

Thats, what, 3 hours?

And what about:  http://www.bushforgotaustralia.com

Ok, so maybe democrats have better things to do with their time.  

[Blake 0]

I hate to say it, but calling it a draw when you're strongly supporting one candidate sounds the other one did a better job

[FSPilot 0]

Or maybe he's just level headed.

Simply stunning.

http://www.youforgotpoland.com

Thats, what, 3 hours?

And what about:  http://www.bushforgotaustralia.com

Ok, so maybe democrats have better things to do with their time.  

Well, Gore did invent the internet.

[EiZei 0]

Well, Gore did invent the internet.

I thought that "quote" was completely forgotten.

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.htm

[Bernadotte 0]

There is no "proof" that Bin Laden was at Tora Bora when the ground fighting started.

So, where was he?  Baghdad?

You would think so considering that US forces got to the Iraqi capital in under 2 weeks,

but didn't manage to reach Tora Bora for 2 months.

[Bernadotte 0]

One of the more interesting moments in the debate happened when Bush was asked "Does the Iraq experience make it more likely or less likely that you would take the United States into another preemptive military action?"

Bush's answer began with:

Quote[/b] ]I would hope I never have to. I understand how hard it is to commit troops. Never wanted to commit troops. When I was running -- when we had the debate in 2000, never dreamt I'd be doing that.

But the enemy attacked us, Jim, and I have a solemn duty to protect the American people, to do everything I can to protect us.

Kerry then said:

Quote[/b] ]Jim, the president just said something extraordinarily revealing and frankly very important in this debate. In answer to your question about Iraq and sending people into Iraq, he just said, The enemy attacked us.

Saddam Hussein didn't attack us. Osama bin Laden attacked us. Al Qaida attacked us.

Bush got quite riled up and responded with:

Quote[/b] ]First of all, of course I know Osama bin Laden attacked us. I know that.

And secondly, to think that another round of resolutions would have caused Saddam Hussein to disarm, disclose, is ludicrous, in my judgment. It just shows a significant difference of opinion.

But Mr President, what WMDs has Saddam Hussein been forced to disarm or disclose by your military action and the loss of over 1000 American lives?

[Bernadotte 0]

Here's an interesting chart showing the turnout among voters within certain age groups.  It shows that less than a third of 18 - 24 year olds voted in 1996.

Polling organisations use such statistics to normalise their polls.  The theory is that if young people are the least likely to vote then their opinions should have the least representation in our surveys. But will it remain that way in 2004?

I suspect that the percentage of young people who will vote this year will increase enormously.  When 2/3 of an age group don't bother to show up it suggests that they do not believe their vote could possibly matter.  However, Florida 2000 changed all that.  And I don't think the polling organisations have caught up with that change yet so their surveys are very likely to be way off this year.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

"it is hard work, you know"

"it is hard work, you know"

"it is hard work, you know"

"it is hard work, you know"

"it is hard work, you know"

sure, yes Mr. President.

Why should we discuss more "objectively" about the debate?

I pretty much must say that BUSH had nothing else to resort to than "the world is better off without Saddam Hussein" ...

wow, pretty impressive argument for an preemptive strike. I mean if there would have been WMD, then I could have agreed with Bush somehow. If he would have been responsible for 911, sure I would be the first to support him.

But dont you see this pittyful texan with his limited rethorical potential trying to compete with a former top student from Yale (I mean a "real" student). I dont even want to know how ridiculous this cowboy would have looked if this discussion would have been with Clinton. He would have made Bush stotter and repeat himself even more.

And how embarassing for the Bush-loving-europe-hating voters: France,Germany and the UK dismantled Iran without a single bullet and how did Kerry dare to openly mention this?

How degrading this must be for a Redneck that sissy europeans can actually act... and yes... without sending troops.

Kerry was clearly ahead of Bush. Bush was stuck in his pragmatic baby-language-slogans.

You want us to stay objective? Well forget about it. A president, a vice president and a whole administration OPENLY ridiculed europe and european nations in the election speeches many times, too many times. You decided to go the unilateral way! Well fine, here is my objective opinion.

"Your president is a stupid pea-brain, who thinks that even if you took the wrong turn you should still proceed on that road for the sake of not showing a weakness"

Did you ever try that in real life? "Damn I took the wrong street, it is leading me into the south instead of the north, but now I got to be consistent, I gotta stay on this road, I should never turn around, this would mean a weakness!" Maybe removing Saddam was a noble intention, but it was carried out incorrectly.

My objectivity is limited to the objective opinion that I objectively prefer Kerry and I objectively hope he wins the vote so we get together again like objective adults to solve in the world what there is to solve.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]Akira and Balschoiws post were rather predictible

What have you been smoking ?

I didn´t take part in this discussion at all....

[kerosene 0]

Guess you didnt need too, cause youre so predictible and all (joke)

People said Bush is good at staying focused, staying "on message", well mabye hes a little too good, cause he fell back on "you cant lead if you change your position" way too much. He also took a question about North Korea, where Kerry had criticized him for allowing them to aquire nukes, and just started talking about Saddam Hussein.

His insistance that China would drop all talks with North Korea if they entered into negotations with the U.S baffled me somewhat as he made no attempt to explain why. I think the North Korea issue was one of Kerrys strongest areas.

Im looking forward to the Cheney/Edwards debate, i wanna see Cheney freak out, or ideally get worked up and then collapse on stage.

[NavyEEL 0]

Quote[/b] ]Akira and Balschoiws post were rather predictible

What have you been smoking ?

I didn´t take part in this discussion at all....

How predictable...

[Bernadotte 0]

Quote[/b] ]Akira and Balschoiws post were rather predictible

What have you been smoking ?

I didn´t take part in this discussion at all....

Well, maybe Sputnik Monroe was predicting that you would post nothing.

LOL

[-33ker 0]

I couldn't see the debate last night. It was too late (about 2 am in Germany). Is there something like a transcription or a log of the debate? Where can I find it?