The Iraq thread 3

[JP226 0]

canada is no where near endangered as America is, you know you aren't in anyway the head of this coalition like AMerica is

what do you think he means by the word "infidel" means

here you go a definition from websters  

an unbeliever with respect to a particular religion b : one who acknowledges no religious belief

most of you are on the wrong side of history

[JP226 0]

how bout this link

http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news....ews%2e6

[EiZei 0]

canada is no where near endangered as America is, you know you aren't in anyway the head of this coalition like AMerica is

Kinda proves a point, eh?

Quote[/b] ]

most of you are on the wrong side of history

Care to elaborate?

And no, I cant be arsed to register to some news services just because of a single article. Quote them just like everybody else does.

[NavyEEL 0]

JP226... it's hard enough for me to argue against all of these people. If you are going to try and be supportive, at least post some coherent thoughts using complete sentences and adequate punctuation please. Thank you!

[denoir 0]

so because some editor wrote why UBL attacked america, it must be true? this is just speculative

No, but because UBL has said it over and over again. The primary mission of AQ is to remove all people they consider infidels from what they consider holy grounds: i.e primarily Saudi Arabia.

It's not speculative it's a fact. His agenda as stated over and over again by him is the removal of US troops from muslim countries.

He doesn't give a rat's ass if you are a muslim or not. He is not trying to convert America, he just wants you to get the hell out of the Mid East.

Second, it's not just "some editor", it's the Council on Foreign Relations, a state-department funded organization.

And again, it has nothing to do with Iraq. As a matter of fact, you did UBL a favour. He thoroughly hated Saddam for his religious persecutions and secular rule. By invading Iraq, not only did you remove one of his bitter enemies but you caused even more Arab resentment towards you and helped expand UBL's recruitement base. In the war against fundamentalists, Saddam and you were on the same side (which was why you were in bed together during the Iran-Iraq war).

[Badgerboy 0]

The most amusing thing of all, is the fact that he seems to believe the US is the only country that has ever suffered from terrorism.

Read up on Europe in the 70/80's. We had lots of roving bands of killers back then. My country suffered repeated attacks from an organisation which received funding and intellegence from the US! (The IRA) Only since 9/11 has it dropped to a trickle!

If we followed Bush Doctrine 2.0, the British Army would have rolled into Ireland, and deposed those 'Terrorist harbouring dogs' in charge. Instead we worked it out diplomatically. It took a while but it was worth it...

[JP226 0]

again if i was sitting here and listening and believing you guys i'd think the IRA are right and that the british have no right in occupying that land

[Badgerboy 0]

again if i was sitting here and listening and believing you guys i'd think the IRA are right and that the british have no right in occupying that land

I was hoping you would say that....

Next step, try analysing and comparing what you just said, with current events.

[bn880 5]

Who's this, Duke of Ray or something? Or FS did you get a second account?

[walker 0]

Hi JP226

Please try to improve your education as to world affairs. At the very least support your arguments with reputable sources.

You do the ideals you argue for a great dis-service by failing to support them properly with reasoned argument and evidence.

Frankly the tenor and quality of your arguments would lead me to believe you are a Bin Laden supporter agent-provocateur logging on from Pakistan pretending to be an awful parody of the worst kind of teen US citizen who never finished high school and lives in mid-western banjo plucker land.

While this thread is a good source for those wanting information, education on the subject and hone their skills in debate on both sides of the argument. It is filled with fairly educated people who do not suffer fools gladly.

Kind Regards Walker

[Badgerboy 0]

Who's this, Duke of Ray or something?  Or FS did you get a second account?  

Nah, FS could use punctuation, DoR on the other hand....

(I'm off down the pub now. I will return! )

[denoir 0]

Well, it is said, that civilised man seeks out good and intelligent company, so that, through learned discourse, he may rise above the average and grow intellectually.

Personally, however, I like to start the day with a total dickhead to remind me I'm best.    

[Placebo 28]

I'm unpininning these two threads, consider it a final step before they're closed completely and we decide to stop all such debates if necessary. Behaviour in these threads is at times disgraceful, if you can't keep it civil then don't post.

[bn880 5]

yep, tis fun...

(ok, Placebo)

[JP226 0]

huh did you call me what I think you just said denoir, if all europeans are like you then thank god i'm american and not some euro ultra left liberal

thankyou placebo this topic is beginning to drive me crazy, hopefully it will ultimately disappear

[denoir 0]

huh did you call me what I think you just said denoir,

No, don't worry, it was not directed at you at all. It was a general joke

[Balschoiw 0]

I´m not the happy about this placebo. I guess there are still a lot of things to come from Iraq. I mean it´s not going against the US here. It´s against cultivated stupidity. We need a place to share news on iraq and the political developement in that region. I enjoy the news I get here a lot; I mean some of them not of course but this is a good place to keep updated on whát´s going on down there in Iraq.

The case is just still to imminent to unpin it.

That´s at least my opinion I wanted to voice

[Balschoiw 0]

Good or bad ?

Quote[/b] ]With the help of the CIA, a new Iraqi intelligence agency is being formed. Using former members of Saddam's government, and intelligence services, who fled Iraq before last year's war, and carefully selected current members of the recently dissolved intelligence services, the new organization will grow from a few hundred, to some 2,000 members in the next year. The main job of the new agency will be identifying terrorists (both Iraqi and foreigners) as well as members of organized Iraqi groups who are attacking coalition troops, aid groups and government officials. It is believed that some members of the new intelligence service are already at work. Screening former members of Saddam's intelligence services proved difficult. The Iraqi intelligence agencies (there were several) had a culture of violence and corruption. Their motto seemed to be "Whatever It Takes." Torture and murder were common, as was working closely with criminal gangs. To make matters worse, Iraqi intelligence tended to be sloppy, and prone to believe what they (or Saddam) wanted to believe. There were some very clever and capable people in Iraqi intelligence, but it's not known how many of these passed the "smell test" (did not engage in summary executions or lots of torture).

[Placebo 28]

I´m not the happy about this placebo............

The case is just still to imminent to unpin it.

That´s at least my opinion I wanted to voice  

I don't care about importance, relevance, content, I care about how people conduct themselves on the forum and that the forum rules are followed, these two threads lead to failings in both areas, be thankful they're not closed completely

[EiZei 0]

huh did you call me what I think you just said denoir, if all europeans are like you then thank god i'm american and not some euro ultra left liberal

They/we are, but chanting the word "liberal" does not make your argument one bit more credible.

[Acecombat 0]

Quote[/b] ]Frankly the tenor and quality of your arguments would lead me to believe you are a Bin Laden supporter agent-provocateur logging on from Pakistan pretending to be an awful parody of the worst kind of teen US citizen who never finished high school and lives mid-western banjo plucker land.

Have to admit i doubled up with laughter there walker but very much true

I wish some peeps from the opflash.org forums drop by here its filled with right wing americans claiming america was right on every war from ww2s atomic bomb drop to Iraq

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Quote[/b] ]Frankly the tenor and quality of your arguments would lead me to believe you are a Bin Laden supporter agent-provocateur logging on from Pakistan pretending to be an awful parody of the worst kind of teen US citizen who never finished high school and lives mid-western banjo plucker land.

Have to admit i doubled up with laughter there walker but very much true  

I wish some peeps from the opflash.org forums drop by here its filled with right wing americans claiming america was right on every war from ww2s atomic bomb drop to Iraq  

To be accurate, most banjo pluckers reside in the Southeastern US

[denoir 0]

Quote[/b] ]

Sources: Bush to order WMD intelligence inquiry

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush will name a bipartisan, nine-member commission to investigate prewar intelligence assessments of Iraq's suspected unconventional weapons programs, administration sources said Sunday.

That intelligence was used to justify the U.S.-led war in Iraq, the first under the national security strategy Bush outlined in September 2002, which called for pre-emptive attacks against terrorist groups and nations that possess or are developing weapons of mass destruction.

David Kay, the former U.S. chief weapons inspector, said last week that no such weapons had been found in Iraq, and that he didn't believe stockpiles of banned weapons would turn up.

The White House sources spoke to reporters after a week in which Kay and congressmen from both parties called for an independent investigation into why U.S. intelligence appeared to be wrong.

"It's important that it be outside the normal political process so it can have the maximum credibility," Kay said on CNN's "Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer."

"This is important for domestic support of the intelligence community and of our foreign policy. It's important for national security, and it's certainly important for our ability to lead other countries in the future against threats that we may think threaten us."

Kay said U.S. intelligence appears to have relied too much on Iraqi defectors and satellite intercepts for its information on the regime of Iraqi President Saddam Hussein after U.N. weapons inspectors left the country in 1998.

"I think that led them wrong ... there were not enough dots, and the dots tended to get connected when they should not have been connected," he said.

Kay said the United States was not alone in its interpretation of Iraq's weapons capability. Although other countries' intelligence agencies differed on how serious a threat Iraq was and what course of action to take to mitigate it, "there was very little difference around the world on the issue of 'Does [saddam] have weapons?'" Kay told CNN. " ' Yes, he did,' was the consensus."

But U.S. officials may have misused what intelligence they did have, suggested Delaware Sen. Joseph Biden, a Democrat who sits on the Foreign Relations Committee. He accused Vice President Dick Cheney of making inaccurate statements about Iraq's weapons capabilities before the war.

Biden cited comments Cheney gave in March, before the U.S.-led attack on Iraq, to NBC's "Meet the Press" that "We believe Saddam has reconstituted nuclear weapons."

Biden said he had seen no such evidence.

"No intelligence person ever said that, that I'm aware of, and the vice president went ahead and blandly and boldly stated it. It was not accurate. So, one of the things we have to look at is not just whether there was pressure, but whether the information given the administration was properly used."

Republican Sen. Chuck Hagel of Nebraska, a member of the Foreign Relations Committee and the Select Intelligence Committee, agreed that an investigation is needed.

"We need to open this up in a very nonpartisan, outside commission to see where we are," he told CNN. "I don't think there's any way around it ... America's credibility is at stake."

Congressional and administration sources say the White House is open to an independent inquiry because it would rob Democrats and other critics of ammunition over the intelligence error that they could use during campaigns.

The House and Senate intelligence committees, and the president's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board, are already investigating.

A story in Sunday's editions of the Washington Post, citing Senate Republicans, said it will be impossible for any independent commission to finish its work before elections in November.

Kay said on "Fox News Sunday" that he did not know how long an inquiry would take, but added it would be time-consuming. "Whether it's going to take six months or nine months, I have no idea at this point."

In the National Intelligence Estimate, which was declassified in October 2002, the State Department said it could not find a compelling case that Iraq was developing nuclear weapons. But the administration never cited that report in making the public case to go to war.

"There are caveats that clearly dropped out, dissenting opinions that clearly dropped out, as you moved higher up and people read the headline summaries," Kay said. "I think this is something that needs to be investigated and looked at."

Despite Kay's conclusions that there appear to have been no stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq before the war, he maintains that the Iraqi regime was still dangerous, not only to its own people but as a possible supplier of weapons know-how to terrorists.

"It was falling apart into unbelievable depravity and corruption," Kay told CNN. "Everything was for sale, at a price, and no one was watching it."

But Kay said Bush's policy of pre-emptive war cannot survive intact unless the quality of U.S. intelligence-gathering and analysis is improved.

"If you cannot rely on good, accurate intelligence that is credible to the American people and to others abroad, you certainly can't have a policy of preemption," he said on the Fox program.

A key member of the Senate Intelligence Committee expressed reluctant support for an independent commission to investigate the matter.

"I'm not a fan of commissions, generally speaking," said Republican Sen. Trent Lott of Mississippi. "But, in this case, there's no question that there was an intelligence failure, in some form or another."

He added, "What I want to know is, what happened? Why wasn't it more reliable, why wasn't it more accurate? And, more importantly, what are we going to do about it?"

Sen. Jay Rockefeller, a Democrat of West Virginia, urged that any mandate go beyond prewar intelligence to include scrutiny of the relationship between intelligence and decision-making, and he urged that the inquiry begin soon.

CNN

Who else thinks that the CIA is going to end up taking it in the rear again?

[Acecombat 0]

Whats the bible belt (area) in the US btw tex? i heard that reference from one of them yanks there saying that he comes from the area known as that and the people there generally love Bush

Anyway do you guys think that this inquiry would be fair or not? Or will we witness another Hutton judgement lookalike?

[walker 0]

@ Feb. 02 2004,01:19)]

Quote[/b] ]Frankly the tenor and quality of your arguments would lead me to believe you are a Bin Laden supporter agent-provocateur logging on from Pakistan pretending to be an awful parody of the worst kind of teen US citizen who never finished high school and lives in mid-western banjo plucker land.

Have to admit i doubled up with laughter there walker but very much true  

I wish some peeps from the opflash.org forums drop by here its filled with right wing americans claiming america was right on every war from ww2s atomic bomb drop to Iraq  

To be accurate, most banjo pluckers reside in the Southeastern US  

Hi Tex

Thanks for the correction duly noted.

If any one thinks I am impuning the US please note I am not. I dont think such a place as mid-western banjo plucker land exists it is a myth like the WMD this war was suposed to be about.

Kind Regards Walker