The Iraq thread 3

[ralphwiggum 6]

Quote[/b] ] The U.S. Senate Intelligence Committee has concluded that a worldwide intelligence failure led to the belief that Iraq's Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction before the war, the panel's chairman said Thursday.

Ummm...I thought it was the rest of the world (ie UN, France, Germany for one) that said he didn't have any???

Or are they counting the other "Coalition Of the Willing" intelligence  (perhaps Palau's or Fiji's intelligence?)

EDIT: Ditto what Bals said...

it's called - blame the others.

[farmcoot 0]

Quote[/b] ] The U.S. Senate Intelligence Committee has concluded that a worldwide intelligence failure led to the belief that Iraq's Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction before the war, the panel's chairman said Thursday.

Ummm...I thought it was the rest of the world (ie UN, France, Germany for one) that said he didn't have any???

Or are they counting the other "Coalition Of the Willing" intelligence  (perhaps Palau's or Fiji's intelligence?)

EDIT: Ditto what Bals said...

http://washingtontimes.com/op-ed/20040618-080724-6825r.htm

Quote[/b] ]While political foes cast aspersions on his decision to oust Saddam Hussein, President Bush yesterday received support from an unlikely party: Russian President Vladimir Putin. Yesterday, Mr. Putin casually delivered a political bombshell, saying that prior to the war, he warned that Saddam's cohorts might be planning a terrorist attack against the United States.

   "After September 11, 2001, and before the start of the military operation in Iraq, the Russian special services - the Intelligence service - received information that officials from Saddam's regime were preparing terrorist attacks in the United States and outside it against the U.S. military and other interests," Mr. Putin said during a visit to Kazakhstan. He added that Mr. Bush personally thanked a Russian intelligence official for the information. Mr. Putin did not provide any details of the plot or say whether al Qaeda or any other terrorist group was involved. But his remarks serve to strengthen the case for Mr. Bush's decision to go to war to drive Saddam from power.

   The Russian leader's comments are particularly significant given Moscow's close, longstanding relationship with Saddam and its staunch opposition to the war. From the early 1970s until the U.S.-led invasion last year, Russia was one of the Ba'athist regime's leading arms suppliers, and Russian and Iraqi intelligence worked closely together. As a former head of the KGB, Mr. Putin doubtless has extensive experience working closely with senior Iraqi intelligence officials.

   Mr. Putin's comments are but the latest evidence of Saddam's involvement in harboring and supporting terrorists. Abul Abbas, who murdered American vacationer Leon Klinghoffer during a hijacking in the mid-1980s, was captured by coalition forces in Iraq (and died several months ago). Abu Musab al Zarqawi, an al Qaeda-linked terrorist wanted for his involvement in directing the insurgency in Iraq, received medical treatment in Baghdad after he was injured in the U.S. military campaign in Afghanistan in early 2002. Saddam's stipends of $25,000 each to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers are well-known.

   Moreover, Saddam had no moral compunctions about terrorism against Americans. In 1993, for example, he attempted to assassinate the first President Bush during a visit to Kuwait. His regime played host to Abdul Yasin, a fugitive wanted in connection with the February 1993 World Trade Center attack, which killed six persons and wounded nearly 1,000.

   We look forward to learning more from Mr. Putin about Saddam's terrorist plots against America prior to the war. For now, Mr. Putin's statement strengthens Mr. Bush's case that allowing Saddam to remain in power would have posed a danger to the United States.

You mean this intel...

[Akira 0]

You mean this intel...

Hate ta tell ya...but that ain't "the whole world"....

[denoir 0]

You mean this intel...

Yupp, that intel that the US says never got

Quote[/b] ]

US “KNEW NOTHING†OF RUSSIAN WARNING

The US says a Russian warning on possible Iraqi attacks did not pass through the State Department.

Russian President Vladimir Putin said Russian secret services had informed Washington following the September 11, 2001, attacks that Saddam Hussein was planning to strike the United States.

The information "wasn't communicated to this building, even at the secretary's level," said State Department spokesman Adam Ereli.

"I don't, from the State Department, have any information to share with you about that, because it didn't come through us," he said.

"I would refer you to the services in question."

Mr Putin's surprise comments came just two days after a September 11 commission in Washington concluded there was no link between Saddam Hussein and Al-Qaeda, one of the justifications used by US President George W Bush for invading Iraq.

The Russian leader's claims apparently support Mr Bush's position.

When asked if the United States had used the Russian warning as part of its justification for going to war, Mr Ereli said, "I don't know what this information is."

He also said he did not know if the information had been communicated to US Secretary of State Colin Powell through his Russian counterpart at the time, Igor Ivanov.

Mr Powell made a long presentation before the UN Security Council on February 5, 2003 laying out an expansive list of justifications for going to war, but did not mention the Russian intelligence.

While Mr Putin said the regime of deposed Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein had prepared terrorist attacks after the September 11 strikes, he did not have intelligence on specific terrorist acts by Iraqis.

Just political play from Putin, nothing more, nothing less.

[bn880 5]

Yeah Putin is playing the game the US likes so much...

lol @ farmcoots sig, remember Communism=Devil don't pay taxes either

[billybob2002 0]

It seems the dumbasses came out of hiding....

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm....illed_2

Quote[/b] ]

Militant Group Claims Fallujah Killings

1 hour, 16 minutes ago

By JAMIE TARABAY, Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD, Iraq - A militant group calling itself the Islamic Army in Iraq (news - web sites) claimed responsibility for the March 31 killings of four American contractors whose bodies were mutilated in the restive city of Fallujah.

The claim was made in a CD-ROM obtained by Time magazine that also showed footage purported to be of the attack, identification papers of the victims and papers with the logo of their company, Blackwater Security Consulting.

The slaying and mutilations of the four Blackwater employees — two of their burned bodies were hung from a bridge by an Iraqi mob — was one of the factors that prompted a bloody three-week siege of Fallujah by U.S. Marines.

The assault ended with the Marines withdrawing and handing the city over to an Iraqi force, but Fallujah remains a stronghold of guerrillas and Islamic militants.

There has been no prior claim of responsibility for the killings.

The CD-ROM, obtained Wednesday from Time, features a series of explosions and attacks the group says it orchestrated, and one masked man gives an account of the March 31 ambuush.

"One of our operatives in the intelligence department of the Islamic Army told our leaders that members of the CIA (news - web sites) would be passing through Fallujah on their way to the base at (the nearby town of) Habbaniyah for an important meeting," said the masked man, whose voice was distorted in the recording.

Militia leaders decided to target the two cars at the city's main traffic junction, the man said.

Militants opened fire on the second sport utility vehicle first, the man said, prompting the driver of the leading car to charge forward and spin around in an effort to flee. The militants gave chase in their own car, firing on the contractors and killing them, he said.

The militants displayed some of the contractors' identification papers, including printed e-mails showing the logo of Moyock, N.C.-based Blackwater.

Footage on the CD-ROM shows the interior of one of the vehicles with the bodies of two men inside with automatic rifles slung across their chests.

One man, his gray hair matted with blood, lies slumped forward, bullet holes scattered through the black and white crisscross design of his sweater. The man in the passenger seat leans back with his head against the head rest, a bullet hole tearing away most of his right cheek.

[denoir 0]

You know that smiley in your signature really sends mixed messages

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]You know that smiley in your signature really sends mixed messages

........

[quicksand 0]

Quote[/b] ]It seems the dumbasses came out of hiding....

So?They did their job like any other insurgent cell-attacked the contractors ride and ran away to safety.It was the mob that mutilated their bodies afterwards in an act of savegery.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]So?They did their job like any other insurgent cell-attacked the contractors ride and ran away to safety.It was the mob that mutilated their bodies afterwards in an act of savegery.

They are still dumbasses....

[bn880 5]

Hmm I don't know, you could say that ~140K US troops who fought and killed for an immoral war are dumbasses, so that kind of comment is really pointless.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Hmm I don't know, you could say that ~140K US troops who fought and killed for an immoral war are dumbasses, so that kind of comment is really pointless.

If I say something, I'm still going to lose...

[Apollo 0]

Anyone want to place a bet on the life expectancy of new Iraqi prime minister Iyad Allawi?

I give him 3 months top...

[Veovis 0]

Quote[/b] ]They are still dumbasses....

Well Billybob, cultural differences don't allow Americans to see the joy in burning and mutilating non-combatents.

Quote[/b] ]Hmm I don't know, you could say that ~140K US troops who fought and killed for an immoral war are dumbasses, so that kind of comment is really pointless.

Hold up there, bn880. Immoral? Most of my government, and probably most of the Coalition's troops, seriously thought they were fighting for liberation, freedom, democracy, etc.. Good values, not immoral values. The war was almost completely unjustified, sure. The involved governments were misguided, true. It was conducted entirely wrong, and if we stayed in accordance with the UN, it wouldn't have been conducted at all. All that is true, yet it is not immoral.

In the same way, the insurgents/terrorists think they are fighting for a moral cause. They're as misguided as we were.

Immoral is taking a hostage and beheading him. Immoral is mutilating and killing civilians. And just to keep things even, immoral is abusing prisoners.

Aside from the soldiers at the prison, the coalition fought honorably for what they truly believed were good values. I don't see how you can say that is immoral.

Quote[/b] ]Anyone want to place a bet on the life expectancy of new Iraqi prime minister Iyad Allawi?

I hate to be a cynic, but I think he'll be lucky if he lasts the rest of the year.

[bn880 5]

Quote[/b] ]They are still dumbasses....

Well Billybob, cultural differences don't allow Americans to see the joy in burning and mutilating non-combatents.

Quote[/b] ]Hmm I don't know, you could say that ~140K US troops who fought and killed for an immoral war are dumbasses, so that kind of comment is really pointless.

Hold up there, bn880. Immoral? Most of my government, and probably most of the Coalition's troops, seriously thought they were fighting for liberation, freedom, democracy, etc.. Good values, not immoral values. The war was almost completely unjustified, sure.

This discussion stops here, I am not arguing to support or contradict this statement, it is a comparison to show how useless a comment like "dumbasses" is.

Chao

[Balschoiw 0]

Iraq is far from beiing stable. I think now we go to the 2nd level of fighting.

Iraqis, US soldiers killed in Samarra attack

The thing will be over when the last US soldier has left Iraq. It´s a wasted situation. Totally.

Quote[/b] ]

At least six Iraqis and four US soldiers have been killed in fresh violence in Samarra, north of the capital, according to US military and hospital sources.

"The hospital received four bodies and 30 people with injuries," said Dr Muhammed Fadil at Samarra General Hospital, adding that residents had offered to donate blood to the wounded.

The fresh unrest in Samarra, 125 km north of Baghdad, started just before 11 am (0700 GMT) when the Iraqi

national guard headquarters at the entrance of the city was attacked with some 35 mortars.

The attack caused the collapse of the headquarters, a US military spokesman said.

"There was a mortar attack on the Iraqi national guard headquarters in Samarra. They fired four mortar rounds striking and collapsing the building, used by the national guard and 1st Infantry Division (ID) soldiers," said spokesman Major Neal O'Brien.

Explosion

A former Baath party official was killed on Thursday when a bomb hidden in his car exploded outside the Baghdad rope factory that he owned, police said.

Iraqi police and US troops sealed off the area where the man's charred remains lay by the burnt wreckage of his vehicle, destroyed when the booby trap detonated.

"He was getting into his car when it exploded," said Anmar Yassine, the senior police officer at the scene, a street in an industrial district in the south of the capital.

The victim, Ali Abbas, had been the treasurer of a regional committee of ousted President Saddam Hussein's Baath party.

Ambush

In Baghdad, national guardsmen were ambushed for the second time in less than 24 hours, killing an Iraqi soldier in a street battle, the US military said on Thursday.

"One guardsman was killed and 12 wounded" in the fighting which broke out around 10 pm (18:00 GMT) on Wednesday, a military spokesman said.

The US army was called in to reinforce the Iraqi national guardsmen and help beat back the assailants, the military said.

"The 1st Cavalry Division detained nine anti-Iraqi forces and killed a rocket-propelled grenade gunner," the spokesman said.

Earlier ambush

The shootout came after an ambush on national guardsmen on Wednesday morning in central Baghdad, killing two guardsmen and wounding 21 others.

But four Iraqis were injured earlier in the day when clashes erupted between US patrol and unidentified armed assailants in the Abu Ghraib district west of Baghdad.

Aljazeera's correspondent said the aftermath of the fighting resulted in burnt out and damaged shops.

The area was then sealed off as US troops searched for the assailants.

It is spiraling up imo. I have a bad feeling.

[action man 0]

Because of curiosity and or stupidity i have just veiwed the beheading videos that are on various sites,i wish i hadn't.The country need the nuke bomb droping on it and i would do it in person. Please excuse me i am very angry and in a state of shock

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]Because of curiosity and or stupidity i have just veiwed the beheading videos that are on various sites,i wish i hadn't.The country need the nuke bomb droping on it and i would do it in person. Please excuse me i am very angry and in a state of shock

Did you have the same feeling when you watched the gun-footage movies from Iraq ?

Yeah, go get yourself nuke....

Or do you think it´s nice to get shot at with 20mm or rockets ?

There´s cruelty on both sides. It´s war in case you forgot, oh excuse me fighting is over as the US president said.

[quicksand 0]

All I can say is read this(not if you are part of Bush`s peanut gallery you will probably choke on it).

This is probably one of the best eyes opener article about Iraq since this entire mess started.

Quote[/b] ]Iraqi insurgency many times larger then suspected

BAGHDAD, Iraq - The Iraq (news - web sites) insurgency is far larger than the 5,000 guerrillas previously thought to be at its core, U.S. military officials say, and it's being led by well-armed Iraqi Sunnis angry at being pushed from power alongside Saddam Hussein.

Although U.S. military analysts disagree over the exact size, dozens of regional cells, often led by tribal sheiks and inspired by Sunni Muslim imams, can call upon part-time fighters to boost forces to as high as 20,000 — an estimate reflected in the insurgency's continued strength after U.S. forces killed as many as 4,000 in April alone.

And some insurgents are highly specialized — one Baghdad cell, for instance, has two leaders, one assassin, and two groups of bomb-makers.

The developing intelligence picture of the insurgency contrasts with the commonly stated view in the Bush administration that the fighting is fueled by foreign warriors intent on creating an Islamic state.

"We're not at the forefront of a jihadist war here," said a U.S. military official in Baghdad, speaking on condition of anonymity.

The official and others told The Associated Press the guerrillas have enough popular support among nationalist Iraqis angered by the presence of U.S. troops that they cannot be militarily defeated.

The military official, who has logged thousands of miles driving around Iraq to meet with insurgents or their representatives, said a skillful Iraqi government could co-opt some of the guerrillas and reconcile with the leaders instead of fighting them.

"I generally like a lot of these guys," he said. "We know who the key people are in all the different cities, and generally how they operate. The problem is getting actionable information so you can either attack them, arrest them or engage them."

Even as Iraqi leaders wrangle over the contentious issue of offering a broad amnesty to guerrilla fighters, the new Iraqi military and intelligence corps have begun gathering and sharing information on the insurgents with the U.S. military, providing a sharper picture of a complex insurgency.

"Nobody knows about Iraqis and all the subtleties in culture, appearance, religion and so forth better than Iraqis themselves," said U.S. Army Lt. Col. Daniel Baggio, a military spokesman at Multinational Corps headquarters in Baghdad. "We're very optimistic about the Iraqis' use of their own human intelligence to help root out these insurgents."

The intelligence boost has allowed American pilots to bomb suspected insurgent safe houses over the past two weeks, with Iraqi Prime Minister Iyad Allawi saying Iraqis supplied information for at least one of those airstrikes. But the better view of the insurgency also contradicts much of the popular wisdom about it.

Estimates of the insurgents' manpower tend to be too low. Last week, a former coalition official said 4,000 to 5,000 Baathists form the core of the insurgency, with other attacks committed by a couple hundred supporters of Jordanian militant Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and hundreds of other foreign fighters.

Anthony Cordesman, an Iraq analyst with the Center for Strategic and International Studies, said the figure of 5,000 insurgents "was never more than a wag and is now clearly ridiculous."

"Part-timers are difficult to count, but almost all insurgent movements depend on cadres that are part-time and that can blend back into the population," he said.

U.S. military analysts disagree over the size of the insurgency, with estimates running as high as 20,000 fighters when part-timers are added.

Ahmed Hashim, a professor at the U.S. Naval War College, said the higher numbers squared with his findings in a study of the insurgency completed in Iraq.

One hint that the number is larger is the sheer volume of suspected insurgents — 22,000 — who have cycled through U.S.-run prisons. Most have been released. And in April alone, U.S. forces killed as many as 4,000 people, the military official said, including Sunni insurgents and Shiite militiamen fighting under the banner of a radical cleric.

 

There has been no letup in attacks. On Thursday, insurgents detonated a car bomb and then attacked a military headquarters in Samarra, a center of resistance 60 miles north of the capital, killing five U.S. soldiers and one Iraqi guardsman.

Guerrilla leaders come from various corners of Saddam's Baath Party, including lawyers' groups, prominent families and especially from his Military Bureau, an internal security arm used to purge enemies. They've formed dozens of cells.

U.S. military documents obtained by AP show a guerrilla band mounting attacks in Baghdad that consists of two leaders, four sub-leaders and 30 members, broken down by activity. There is a pair of financiers, two cells of car bomb-builders, an assassin, separate teams launching mortar and rocket attacks, and others handling roadside bombs and ambushes.

Most of the insurgents are fighting for a bigger role in a secular society, not a Taliban-like Islamic state, the military official said. Almost all the guerrillas are Iraqis, even those launching some of the devastating car bombings normally blamed on foreigners — usually al-Zarqawi.

The official said many car bombings bore the "tradecraft" of Saddam's former secret police and were aimed at intimidating Iraq's new security services.

Many in the U.S. intelligence community have been making similar points, but have encountered political opposition from the Bush administration, a State Department official in Washington said, also speaking on condition of anonymity.

Civilian analysts generally agreed, saying U.S. and Iraqi officials have long overemphasized the roles of foreign fighters and Muslim extremists.

Such positions support the Bush administration's view that the insurgency is linked to the war on terror. A closer examination paints most insurgents as secular Iraqis angry at the presence of U.S. and other foreign troops.

"Too much U.S. analysis is fixated on terms like 'jihadist,' just as it almost mindlessly tries to tie everything to (Osama) bin Laden," Cordesman said. "Every public opinion poll in Iraq ... supports the nationalist character of what is happening."

Many guerrillas are motivated by Islam in the same way religion motivates American soldiers, who also tend to pray more when they're at war, the U.S. military official said.

He said he met Tuesday with four tribal sheiks from Ramadi who "made very clear" that they had no desire for an Islamic state, even though mosques are used as insurgent sanctuaries and funding centers.

"'We're not a bunch of Talibans,'" he paraphrased the sheiks as saying.

At the orders of Gen. John Abizaid, the U.S. commander of Mideast operations, Army analysts looked closely for evidence that Iraq's insurgency was adopting extreme Islamist goals, the official said. Analysts learned that ridding Iraq of U.S. troops was the motivator for most insurgents, not the formation of an Islamic state.

The officer said Iraq's insurgents have a big advantage over guerrillas elsewhere: plenty of arms, money, and training. Iraq's lack of a national identity card system — and guerrillas' refusal to plan attacks by easily intercepted telephone calls — makes them difficult to track.

"They have learned a great deal over the last year, and with far more continuity than the rotating U.S. forces and Iraqi security forces," Cordesman said of the guerrillas. "They have learned to react very quickly and in ways our sensors and standard tactics cannot easily deal with."

[ran 0]

WOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHOOOOOO

More Jihad coming to YOUR foxhole ... coming soon in all your mess halls

[Veovis 0]

Edit - My comments served no purpose for this thread and would have been better suited to a private message.

[ran 0]

Quote[/b] ]WOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHOOOOOO

More Jihad coming to YOUR foxhole ... coming soon in all your mess halls

You disgust me. What kind of filth must you be to celebrate somebody else's death?

You will never find me wishing or cheering on the death of anybody. Maybe it's different in France.

It was just irony dear gentleman ?

Did I celebrate anyone's death ? Did I wish anyone's death ? <span style='color:white'>I could wish yours if ever you don't cut the crap</span>...

[Veovis 0]

Quote[/b] ]Did I celebrate anyone's death ? Did I wish anyone's death ? I

Allow me to dissect your own statement for you.

Quote[/b] ]WOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHOOOOOO

Celebration

Quote[/b] ]More Jihad coming

Holy War

Quote[/b] ]YOUR foxhole ... coming soon in all your mess halls

against Americans

Now, I put two and two together, and decided that you're pissin' me off. - (Carl, ATHF)

Seriously though, if you have some other ambiguous meaning behind your statement, please explain yourself.

Quote[/b] ]I could wish yours if ever you don't cut the crap

Well that'd be awfully civilized of you, now wouldn't it. Good to see such maturity on these boards.

[redliner47 0]

Veovis, you need to chill out.

Im an American currently serving (Not in Iraq) and I didnt take anything hateful there.

You really dont have any right to make accusations like that

Mods, sorry for the OT

I think Allawi could last for a while, hes probably holed up somewhere.

[python3 0]

give the insurgents a few months to get used to his daily routine, and they will get him like they did the president of the governing council. The insurgents have infiltrated iraqi police and national guards as well. Pretty clever crew.