The Iraq thread 3

[MLF 0]

Sky News

Quote[/b] ]

A female militia member

US General has denied claims by an Iraqi militia group that it is holding Spanish hostages and possibly an American.

The Spanish military has also "categorically" denied the claims made by militiamen loyal to anti-American cleric Muqtada al Sadr.

The militia is demanding the release of its Najaf-based leader Mustafa Yaacubi who was arrested by coalition forces on Saturday.

"We hold coalition hostages, most of them Spaniards, and possibly a US soldier, whom we want to swap against Mustafa al-Yaacubi", said Amar al-Husseini, a spokesman for Sadr in Baghdad's Shia stronghold of Sadr City.

Yaacubi, like al Sadr, is implicated in the murder of a rival pro-American cleric last year.

Quote[/b] ]

TROOPS FIGHT UPRISING

Fierce fighting is continuing across Iraq as coalition forces battle to crush a new upsurge in violence.

The US administration is insisting it is still in command in the country, but a General has admitted the coalition has lost control of the cities of Kut and Najaf.

Ukrainian forces pulled out of Kut's city centre on Wednesday after Shia followers of radical cleric Moqtada al-Sadr began an uprising.

Lieutenant General Ricardo Sanchez said forces would "retake the city of Kut imminently".

More than 459 Iraqis and 35 Americans have been killed across Iraq this week.

Lt Gen Sanchez said there were two main fronts in the latest unrest - Fallujah where US marines are battling Sunni rebels, and in the south where troops are fighting al Sadr's militia.

The director of the hospital in Fallujah says that between 280 and 300 Iraqis have died there since Sunday.

US Marines have launched Operation Iron Resolve to try and regain control in the city, where the Pentagon has been forced to defend an attack on a mosque believed to be sheltering Iraqi insurgents.

The operation follows the killing and mutilation of four American private security guards last week.

Thousands of Iraqi sympathisers, both Sunni and Shia Muslim, have forced their way through US military roadblocks today to bring aid to the city from Baghdad.

Troops in armoured vehicles attempted to stop the convoy of cars and pedestrians but they were overwhelmed as residents of villages west of the capital came to the convoy's assistance.

Al Sadr, who is wanted by coalition forces in Iraq, left a mosque in the city of Kufa on Tuesday and travelled to Najaf "to prevent more bloodshed."

US defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld said coalition forces had decided to stay away from Najaf because of an upcoming Muslim pilgrimage to the city and because of al Sadr's militia forces.

Good to see that they are pulling out because of the Religious gathering, but from the daily Breifing they are remaining in city, just in there bases till its all over.

[WhoCares 0]

Apparently, the unrest spreads further:

Mosul

Quote[/b] ]Iraqis carry their country's flag alongside posters of slain Hamas founder Sheikh Ahmed Yassin and Shi'ite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr at a rally in the northern city of Mosul April 8, 2004...

Surprisingly enough, as Mosul and Kirkuk are supposed to be under kurdish control, and for them anything else but a coalition driven solution might be a bad solution.

Hope it remains peaceful up there - our fellow forum member Pins should be up there.

[MLF 0]

Sky News

Quote[/b] ]

JAPANESE TAKEN HOSTAGE

An Iraqi group has taken three Japanese civilians hostage and is threatening to kill them.

Arab TV station Al Jazeera says the group is demanding Japan withdraws its forces from Iraq in three days.

If the government fails to comply, it says it will burn the three hostages alive.

Al Jazeera has shown pictures of the three hostages - two men and a woman- and their passports.

Two have been identified as journalists, the third as an aid worker.

All three were blindfolded in the video.

Al Jazeera says they were seized by a previously unknown group called Saraya al-Mujahideen.

A spokesman for Japan's Foreign Ministry said it was trying to confirm the report.

Japan has several hundred ground troops in Iraq on a noncombat mission to help rebuild the country.

Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi has been one of the strongest backers of the US-led invasion.

His stance has raised concerns that Japanese troops could be targeted by rebel fighters.

There are also reports that eight members of a South Korean church group were earlier seized by other insurgents.

One member of the group is now said to have been released.

[Bernadotte 0]

Denoir:  Iraq would most likely go to shit. There is a power-vacuum after Saddam and there are quite a few people that aspire to fill it.

Bernadotte:  Who?  Many people have conveniently made this claim, but I've not seen any names mentioned.

Denoir:  Where have you been the last few days?  What do you think Sadr wants?

Just a few days ago, when Spanish peacekeepers fired on a crowd of Sadr supporters, you posted, "it looks like the Shia support is slipping."  Now you attempt to justify the occupation by suggesting that Sadr was intent on grabbing power from the start.  Rather than revising history every 5 minutes to suit your argument why not produce some evidence to support your new perspective that Sadr was a significant threat from the start that the Iraqis would not have been able to deal with on their own.

___

Denoir:  Had the occupation been a success story Bush would have gotten a mandate to move on to the next country and enforce the necon vision of pax Americana.

Bernadotte:  Really?  Where?  And from whom would Bush have received such a mandate?

Denoir:  Congress for one thing. The American people another.

And which nation do you believe the Congress and the American people would have authorised Bush to move on to next, election year notwithstanding?

(I'll let you finish answering before I tell you what I think of your opinion.  However, I will remind you that the Congress only authorised Bush to attack Iraq if he had the full backing of the UN Security Council, like daddy Bush got in 1991.)

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Japanese civillians, eh? Hell, I hate the war of the 20th/21st century!

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Albert, I think it's time you kicked the CIA up to red- I don't know what countrywide insurgencies rate on your scale, but they seem pretty serious to me.

[MLF 0]

There have been reports (actual film) of UK troops fightin in Basra, i don't know if this is connected. but from all accounts most of the fighting is in the 3 cities of Fallujah, Kut and Nayaf, its mainly fighting in the Fallujah area IIRC.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

I havent quite developed a scale-system so far  

I thought red is when a country decides to pull out of Iraq due to military catastrophies. (level 5)

Level 4 is....mmhhh a US base had been under serious attacks. Or the control over a city has been totally lost

Level 3 is heavy insurgencies ...

Well I dont realy know, I dont want to be too superficial with this topic and I dont want to make a scale about "casualties per day" that would be respectless. But a control-over-situation-bar is a good idea. Maybe you have some prepositions

But you are right, even in my scale I would have to raise the level due to militia controls 3 cities

[denoir 0]

Denoir:  Iraq would most likely go to shit. There is a power-vacuum after Saddam and there are quite a few people that aspire to fill it.

Bernadotte:  Who?  Many people have conveniently made this claim, but I've not seen any names mentioned.

Denoir:  Where have you been the last few days?  What do you think Sadr wants?

Just a few days ago, when Spanish peacekeepers fired on a crowd of Sadr supporters, you posted, "it looks like the Shia support is slipping."  Now you attempt to justify the occupation by suggesting that Sadr was intent on grabbing power from the start.  

Well, mr Bernadotte I hate to disappoint you but the world is not as trival black and white as you see it. Both statements are equally true.  Sadr and co have the intent of grabbing power as do a number of factions in Iraq. If you insist, I'll give you a list of the major players, but I would hope you do know how to look up news on the web. This is very much connected with Shia support slipping. Thanks to the dislike towards the US, Sadr can without a doubt, if not dominate, at least get backing from the other Shia factions. They could never side with the 'Great Satan' so Sadr is for them the far lesser of two evils. Does that mean that he is a choir boy? Hell no. I could tell you what I think of religious leaders calling for violence. He's a fundamentalist ŕ la Khomeini. Regarding him personally I could not care less if somebody dropped a bomb on him. In the broader perspective however the effects of a confrontation with him are much worse than the trouble he can stirr up. The justification for a continued occupation is that if left alone Sadr and fifty others will make a grab for power, resulting in a civil war. And that option is worse than occupation. I'm quite surprised that you advocate the practice of bombing a country to hell and leaving it in chaos. I suppose your ideological objections to the occupation are more important to you than the suffering of the people.

If you want a good contemporary example, look at Afghanistan after the Soviet occupation.

Quote[/b] ]Rather than revising history every 5 minutes to suit your argument why not produce some evidence to support your new perspective that Sadr was a significant threat from the start that the Iraqis would not have been able to deal with on their own.

I am sorry Bernadotte, but just because you do not understand the connection between A and B does not mean that stating A and then B is 'revising history'. But do go on please. I watch Fox news too for amusement.

Quote[/b] ](I'll let you finish answering before I tell you what I think of your opinion.  However, I will remind you that the Congress only authorised Bush to attack Iraq if he had the full backing of the UN Security Council, like daddy Bush got in 1991.)

No, don't bother waiting for my opinion. I'm dying to hear your next conspiracy theory. Tell me again about the big bad neocons who sit and plot the destruction of the world so that they can run their brand new deathstar with crude oil.

Get real, Bush got a one-time carte blanche after the 11/9 attacks. He used it up in Iraq and not very well. He won't be getting another. And that is without even mentioning that as long as Iraq is as it is, the US military is streched far to thin to start another large-scale war. It's politically impossible, it's economically impossible and it is militarily impossible. If Bush wants to go on more war adventures, Iraq has to be a success story politically, economically and militarily. And that's the bottom line.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Denoir:  Iraq would most likely go to shit. There is a power-vacuum after Saddam and there are quite a few people that aspire to fill it.

Bernadotte:  Who?  Many people have conveniently made this claim, but I've not seen any names mentioned.

Denoir:  Where have you been the last few days?  What do you think Sadr wants?

Just a few days ago, when Spanish peacekeepers fired on a crowd of Sadr supporters, you posted, "it looks like the Shia support is slipping."  Now you attempt to justify the occupation by suggesting that Sadr was intent on grabbing power from the start.  

Well, mr Bernadotte I hate to disappoint you but the world is not as trival black and white as you see it. Both statements are equally true.  

I must say I didnt get your argument too, Bernadotte. Sympathy and support are flexible things that can shift (that is why we hold elections regularily :P).

Only the leader with most public support can fill the niche of the powervaccum.

The struggle of the candidates must be enormous right now. In the confusion of the current heatwaves of emotions in Iraq the public sympathy for one or the other may shifts very quickly. The moods are far from being settled and any Iraqi would use any offensive by any leader to march against the americans. Denoir wasnt wrong with the initial statement and isnt wrong with the current one.

Untill this vaccum isnt filled, the attacks will continue. But the US adminstration wont allow a religious leader to fill it, do you see the devils circle?

[MLF 0]

Pictures of the recent insurgency and Combat Operations

Click Me

Quote[/b] ]Lt. Gen. James T. Conway, Commanding General of I Marine Expeditionary Force, left, gets information from U.S. Marines with the 2nd Battalion 1st Marine Regiment in the outskirts of Fallujah, Iraq, Wednesday, April 7, 2004. Hundreds of U.S. Marines attacked several neighborhoods in the western Iraqi city of Fallujah in order to regain control of the city. (AP Photo/Murad Sezer)

Click Me

Quote[/b] ]Lt. Gen. James T. Conway, Commanding General of Ist Marine Expeditionary Force, right, talks with U.S. Marine Cpl. Fabian Carbajal of San Diego, Ca., with the 2nd Battalion 1st Marine Regiment in the outskirts of Fallujah, Iraq, Wednesday, April 7, 2004. Hundreds of U.S. Marines attacked several neighborhoods in the western Iraqi city of Fallujah in order to regain control of the city. (AP Photo/Murad Sezer)

Click Me

Quote[/b] ]Lt. Gen. James T. Conway, Commanding General of Ist Marine Expeditionary Force, second left, talks with U.S. Marine Lcpl Shane F. Strachan of Bloomfield, Iowa, with the 2nd Battalion 1st Marine Regiment, left, in the outskirts of Fallujah, Iraq, Wednesday, April 7, 2004. Hundreds of U.S. Marines attacked several neighborhoods in the western Iraqi city of Fallujah in order to regain control of the city. (AP Photo/Murad Sezer)

Click Me

Quote[/b] ].S. Marines with the 2nd Battalion 1st Marine Regiment stand guard at a railway in the outskirts of Fallujah, Iraq, Wednesday, April 7, 2004. Hundreds of U.S. Marines attacked several neighborhoods in the western Iraqi city of Fallujah in order to regain control of the city. (AP Photo/Murad Sezer)

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images....de1.jpg

Quote[/b] ]RAMADI Navy medical corpsmen carried a wounded marine to an evacuation helicopter yesterday at their outpost in the Sunni-dominated town.

Quote[/b] ]A member of a guerrilla group in Baghdad's Sadr City kept watch.

Quote[/b] ]US troops retrieve a U.S. OH-58D Kiowa helicopter that made an emergency landing in the city of Baqouba, Iraq, Wednesday April 7 2004. (AP PHOTO/str)

Quote[/b] ]Iraqi insurgents walk past a blazing vehicle that was carrying supplies to U.S. forces after it was destroyed in the Baghdad suburb of Abu Ghraib, April 8, 2004. Polish and Bulgarian troops battled Shi'ite militiamen in the Iraqi shrine city of Kerbala on Thursday as U.S.-led forces struggled to quell the worst violence since Saddam Hussein's fall a year ago.

[MLF 0]

-edit- Link reoved, on second thoughts i cant really look at it, even though it does not show much.

Quote[/b] ]A wounded U.S. soldier disconnects his communication wire before extracting himself an armoured vehicle after his convoy came under attack in Fallujah, Iraq, in this image made from video Thursday, April 8, 2004. Two marines were wounded in the attack when their vehicle was attacked by a rocket-propelled grenade. (AP Photo/US Pool via APTN)

Other Pics are in the forums of Militaryphotos.net under the thread of Todays Pic's Thursday 8th, it shows the Abrams on Fire if you really want to look at it.

[Winters 1]

Meanwhile Bob Kerrey is grilling Condoleeza Rice and doing a good job of it.

All her double speak answers are just confirming what everyone knows. Any moment she is gonna start throwing a tantrum.

[MLF 0]

Quote[/b] ]things hotting up in Basra

at least 20 rpg attacks and gun battles one armoured landrove lost to an rpg crew had to use 40mm grenades to disuade mob from overrunning them.

My brother saw an attempted ambush on a warrior. opening fire at the rear of a warrior result turret spin rounds gives it a clip of 30mm then chain gun as rear door opens two minimi and a ugl reply with a shout of "come on you Bastards" result MG team disapear.

a RPG man was turned into confetti when hit by a chain gu.

locals still coming to front gate asking for firmer measures to be taken against the bad guys

This was what one guy is saying is brother told him.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Is that a G3

[4 IN 1 0]

things are just getting into a total mess there now

soldiers are dying just because of a bad leader and hardcored "name of religion" believers

[bn880 5]

Meanwhile Bob Kerrey is grilling Condoleeza Rice and doing a good job of it.

All her double speak answers are just confirming what everyone knows. Any moment she is gonna start throwing a tantrum.

It's almost over don't worry. I'll say this: it's a farce. You want to properly get more of the truth out/investigate a situation, you can not give people like that time to prepare.

What would have to be done is all that need to be interviewed should be seperated at the exact same time, taken to seperate interview locations or interviewed one at a time but without contact with each other.

This is just a farce, way too much time to come up with BS stories.

[denoir 0]

Just watched assorted reuters news feeds. The scenes in Iraq are like from Lebanon in the 80's. It's a complete mess. Open combat in urban terrain. Civilians getting killed. RPG:s flying everywhere. Completely insane.

This is war, it's not some little civil disorder.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

May I just propose to you to visit the Reuters VIDEO site where you can find astonishing (but unbloody) videos of the resistance fighters! Under world news, 2nd and 4th picture from above!

[Acecombat 0]

What the hell ? Has everyone in iraq got their own set of RPGs

Judging by the way they always make appearance in a pic , i wonder where all this waponry is coming from? Any ideas? Old Iraqi army stashes or what ? Foreign aid?

[MLF 0]

Yes i belive it is.

[bn880 5]

What the hell ? Has everyone in iraq got their own set of RPGs

Judging by the way they always make appearance in a pic , i wonder where all this waponry is coming from? Any ideas? Old Iraqi army stashes or what ? Foreign aid?

RPGs are RPGs, everyone's got one that wanted one. The main reason is they are a launcher and grenade, grenades are fairly "small" so you can have a stash of them hidden easily. Unlike disposable(=heavy/large) LAW launchers etc.

[Acecombat 0]

yeah agreed but still i am in awe as to how they get them so easily.

Albert wow those videos are something , its like watching OFP but for real

[EiZei 0]

I recall iraqis owning plenty of heavier weaponry even during saddams rule.

[Donnervogel 0]

i saw some documentaries about iraq in german tv. they went to some market places in bagdad where one could buy eveything from a pistol over assault rifles to rpgs for very low prices.