The Iraq thread 3

[Crazysheep 1]

First of all New York is an exception of police force. My city has about 2 to 3 million people and we hae about 4000 cops, if you count the whole bay area. Atlanta has about 400 cops on duty at one time so ultimately they have around 2000 cops.

Yes, because NYC has more crime than the other states; but it is nowhere near as unstable as Iraq is. A lot more policing in Iraq is needed than in NYC, and effectively there is not.

[Balschoiw 0]

Hey JP last time I question you:

What is his daughter name ?

Wich school is she on ?

How old is she ?

and a question you certainly can answer:

Is there something special about her and her sister ?

Why don´t you answer those simple questions ?

You are not credible at all. That´s it.

You try to betray us here. You have no military knowledge at all. You claim to know guys in that unit or that. Your "cousin" tells you intel stuff. Funny that I´m not even able to tell my girlfriend what I did in Congo in detail until I get clearance. Do us a favour and back out of this lying. It´s just too obviouse.

Oh yes don´t you have a yearbook or such at the school you are in ?

The only one being a comedian seems to be you. This is a thread about the situation in Iraq. If you have nothing seriuose to contribute stay away.

[denoir 0]

first of all denoir, this is not a my friend told your friend, it's a CoS told me and so i told you. But since you don't want a primary source to answer your "argument," typical liberal who doesn't want the facts,

That's not facts, that's you presenting questionable and unsubstantiated claims. Even if it was true, which I very much doubt, it would in the best case be hearsay.

Quote[/b] ]I'll try to answer it. First of all New York is an exception of police force. My city has about 2 to 3 million people and we hae about 4000 cops, if you count the whole bay area. Atlanta has about 400 cops on duty at one time so ultimately they have around 2000 cops. AS for 20,000 soldiers to patrol a country of 24 million, yes, but the US army can still call on it's total of 120 or 30 or however amny thousands of soldiers if the situation gets hairy enough.

It's not a question of the situation getting hairy, it's a question of everyday keeping order. It's about the disarming of the rebels and providing protection for the rebuilding effort. And obviously that isn't going very well. Just look at the two last days.

So, you are saying that they are incompetent rather than undermanned? Well, I'll agree in part with you about the "incompetent" part as the US military has limited peace keeping experience. (I've had the sometimes questionable pleasure of working with US military in KFOR).

The US military is a fighting force, very ill-suited for the peace keeping tasks they are facing in Iraq.

Quote[/b] ]I dont know who they do it in the formidiable nation of sweden, but everyone goes through boot camp in the US army, hence everyone can fight.

Yeah, you mean like Jessica Lynch and her friends who forgot to clean the sand out of their rifles. From working with various units from around the world I can without a hesitation say that the US military has the biggest difference in competence between A and B units.

Quote[/b] ]As for posting 40,000 soldiers by the KFOR i can expalin that, inefficient. They don't have the per capita capability like the US does so there fore they need more, simple as that.

On the contrary. Just the EU countries spend more money on military (and the sum of their militaries are larger) than the US. And KFOR included many other countries, including Russia and the US. As a matter of fact 6,000 of the 30,000 peace keepers in Kosovo in 2001 were American soldiers. In equivalent terms the number in Iraq should be at least 120,000 dedicated peacekeepers  (and that's without counting the remaining 24,000 non-US peacekeepers in KFOR). That means no heavy combat units, no bombers, fighters and most of all not their maintenence crew.

As for efficiency, European militaries have far more experience in peace keeping so they tend to be considerably more efficient in their tasks. If you want a recent example, compare British-controlled regions in Iraq to US controlled.

Quote[/b] ]

PS you backed down

From my claims? No, the US military is very much undermanned in Iraq.

[Hjaldar 0]

There is he again: The "ugly American"! Thought we wouldn't find him again nowadays, especially among all the nice people here. Somebody must have opened a can with some dust and rust on it.

This is a funny thread (although the topic is not)!

[Acecombat 0]

what have we got here? A comedian. Man that is some funny stuff, you should do some stand up

No youve already done most of it on the previous page

[Akira 0]

Listening to JP226 reminds me of a certain pilot friend of ours, without the actual arguments. That's right. I put him below FSPilot.

In any case you see Bush's core constituency, people willing to take at face value whatever they hear, rather than investigate the fact for themselves and to do a little reading.

"He told me so so it must be true" is not a valid argument anywhere, and it is especially true on this board.

Instead of running around in your circles, gather information from completely biased sources, and then just parroting it here, try gathering supportive sources and posting them here. If your position is so concrete, it shouldn't be too hard. Even FSPilot posted sources occasionally.

I'm guessing we are dealing with a pre-teen, clearly blinded by the glitz of medals in "the circles he runs." (If indeed he is in those circles. In any case it sounds like his brother is the one that runs in those circles, and he is the little brother following yelling "Hey wait for me guys!"....but I digress).

Let's see how rock solid his support is, if (hopefully not), his brother comes back lame or in a bag.

Try reading a little JP226 and not being blind, deaf, ignorant. Expand your vision beyond the Fox News channel and what people tell you. Read. You might be pleasantly surprised by the pain in your noggin'. It's called "learning".

[Balschoiw 0]

He overstretched it that much I just keep shaking my head. The number four in the USA chain of command shares intel with him and he is at school with a daugther of schoomaker.

Surprising to me. I wait for his answer and then will show you why I am that surprised  

Edit: Let´s see when Shoomaker signs up at the forums and tells us his version

[EiZei 0]

I dont know who they do it in the formidiable nation of sweden, but everyone goes through boot camp in the US army, hence everyone can fight.

In some european countries every male able to serve (yes, everybody, not just the ones who are willing to) goes through the damn boot cam whetever whether they like it or not.

[Balschoiw 0]

Let´s get back on Iraq. The mods will be thankfull.

Mid-East 'democracy' plan raises questions

Quote[/b] ]A plan by President Bush to make a ringing declaration about democracy in the Middle East at the G8 summit of industrialised nations in June is raising questions among some American allies.

[NavyEEL 0]

Let´s get back on Iraq. The mods will be thankfull.

Mid-East 'democracy' plan raises questions

Quote[/b] ]A plan by President Bush to make a ringing declaration about democracy in the Middle East at the G8 summit of industrialised nations in June is raising questions among some American allies.

Wow I had almost forgotten that this was the Iraq thread... things were so off-topic for the past few pages!

[JP226 0]

Excuse me Bavarian Battlesmurf i can easily answer your questions about all that stuff. but ho do i know you aren't a terrorist

[Tovarish 0]

Excuse me Bavarian Battlesmurf i can easily answer your questions about all that stuff. but ho do i know you aren't a terrorist

LOL Damn it! why must I be at school?! If I was at home I could have some popcorn and beer, it only seems right when watching something so amusing. It's been too dull here without anyone pulling an FSPilot lately.

[ralphwiggum 6]

My father's side has some connections with an intelligence agency and their assessments are not bright either.

[CosmicCastaway 0]

Excuse me Bavarian Battlesmurf i can easily answer your questions about all that stuff. but ho do i know you aren't a terrorist

Rofl!

Well he doesn't think much like you, so he MUST be!

[Akira 0]

Excuse me Bavarian Battlesmurf i can easily answer your questions about all that stuff. but ho do i know you aren't a terrorist

That about sums up your credibility with me.

Stop Trolling.

Unless you have something intelligent to add (highly doubtful), I think you would be more suited to the CS forums.

[theavonlady 2]

My father's side has some connections with an intelligence agency and their assessments are not bright either.

Do they consider your father a good connection?

[ralphwiggum 6]

My father's side has some connections with an intelligence agency and their assessments are not bright either.

Do they consider your father a good connection?

if i tell you, i'd have to kill you

[theavonlady 2]

My father's side has some connections with an intelligence agency and their assessments are not bright either.

Do they consider your father a good connection?

if i tell you, i'd have to kill you

Go ahead. I can take it.

[miles teg 1]

Once again General Denoir speaks of his vast knowledge of Military affairs. He obviously knows more about military capability than a US Army Cheif of Staff who has nearly given his entire life to the military.

JP226. If there is one thing the U.S. Army has taught me, it is that officers often make VERY VERY foolish decisions. The higher the rank the bigger their foolishness. I can tell you a hundred stories of utter stupidity I have seen concerning decisions made by officers of all ranks including generals.

The higher your rank in the military also the more isolated you are from reality as you are not on the ground risking your life on a daily basis and you are generally not in contact daily with regular Iraqi citizens unless you are a general with a major pair of cajones.

Generals operate within their framework of knowledge. If they are operating on a cold war based framework (which most of them are) then they are operating on a faulty framework.

The best officers I have seen interviewed in Iraq always seemed to be mid-level officers (Captain to Major) who were very keen on studying the latest in modern warfare theory and research. These are people devoted to studying the art of unconventional warfare and counter-insurgency operations. They are also generally highly attuned to the political/economic/religious/cultural factors in Iraq. However they are unfortunately not running the war and often their voices are not heard. This was EXACTLY the same problem during the Vietnam War and in Afghanistan where Special Operations have had enormous success...only to have that success ripped apart by blunt, "bull in a china shop" approach to peacekeeping that often destroyed the successful projects the Special Forces guys had been doing building up good relationships and alliances with the locals.

So I'm sorry, but unless a general is one of these front-line type commanders who's willing to risk his life working closely on the ground with his troops and he's open minded to new concepts in warfare, he's going to have a very very skewed analysis of the war in Iraq by operating on principles of maximum firepower rather then on a cultural/political/religious based framework of operation.

I'm not saying strong firepower isn't essentual. It is. But the clumsy usage of such firepower only creates new enemies in a peacekeeping operation. It perpetuates the war rather then resolving it by giving average Iraqis more reasons to hate the American occupation and any American supported government who they see as traitors to Iraq and puppets of America.

It doesn't matter if their perception is wrong. To them that perception IS THE TRUTH and you can take that away by shooting them as it just makes that perception THE TRUTH for the surviving friends and family of that individual.

Obviously not all Iraqis buy into this. So the foreign terrorist volunteers (the ones doing the suicide bombings) and some Iraqi rebels try to use similar tactics to instill fear into US supporters and into those who want a secular democracy.

The only difference is that they have the religious and cultural leverage over the United States. That's why I keep arguing that the US government and the US military absolutely needs to engage Islamic philosophy in order to counter the terrorist and rebel propaganda.

But they REFUSE to do this because it falls outside of their paradigm (framework) of how warfare should be conducted.

Because of this the future of Iraq will be a bloody one no matter what happens there.

If this general of yours knows better then me, then put me in contact with him. I promise to be courteous to him as I respect his rank as I am ex-Army. But it is critically important that Generals such as himself understand the nature of what they are dealing with. If he is interested in talking to me, please PM me and I will then send you my email address JP226.

If he is not interested in information that is critical to winning the war in Iraq and the broader war on terrorism then my case is made regarding this general.

At the very least ask him to allow me to contact a member of his staff that can analyze the information I give them if he is too busy.

If he refuses (or you refuse to even ask him), then either I have to assume that:

1. You don't know this general.

2. You are afraid to put me in contact with this general because he might actually listen to someone with military experience (like himself) and experience in the Middle East. Or

3. You ask him and he has no desire to question his own views on how the war is being faught. Heck if he wants me to I can even look up military publications where military analysts, Civil Affairs officers, and Psych Ops officers are writing THE SAME THINGS that I am saying to some extent.

What many of them lack however is a more holistic framework that takes into account economics, politics, religion, culture, and individual agency (actions) that thwart our efforts in Iraq and in this war on terrorism.

So if he is interested I'm available (and actually am looking for a job in this field as I'm close to graduating).

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[ralphwiggum 6]

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/forces/casualties/

Quote[/b] ]There have been 629 confirmed coalition deaths, 535 Americans, 58 Britons, five Bulgarians, one Dane, 17 Italians, two Poles, eight Spaniards, two Thai and one Ukrainian, in the war as of February 9, 2004. <snip> There also have been 3,000 Americans wounded in the war, according to the Pentagon.

and today,

Quote[/b] ]There have been 630 confirmed coalition deaths, 536 Americans, 58 Britons, five Bulgarians, one Dane, 17 Italians, two Poles, eight Spaniards, two Thai and one Ukrainian, in the war as of February 11, 2004. The casualty list below reflects the names of the soldiers, Marines, airmen and sailors whose families have been notified of their deaths by each country's government. There also have been 3,025 Americans wounded in the war, according to the Pentagon. This list is updated regularly.

1 more casualty from US side. and not a single news about him/her. thanks so much for liberal media.

Go ahead. I can take it.

/calls Jerusalem suicide prevention hotline.

[walker 0]

Hi all

I give JP226 one thing he is picking up the techniques. If only he had the material.

He is quite a little scamp. He reminds me of a Jack Russle my neighbours had. Yack Yack Yack but always brave enough to take on the big dogs. Sadly two Rotwilers from the next street tore him in half. They also ate a cat. The Rotwilers were put down.

Anyway as the others said JP226 your bravery will be much more respected if you do some research to support your viewpoint and you have in your hands the very tool to do it. Your computer and an internet connection.

Here are some important links

This thread (yes this one go hunt back through what people said there are links to many sites that will help you put your point)

Search engines

http://www.google.com Everyone needs to use search engines this is without doubt one of the best (Read up on boolian searches a key skill)

http://www.lycos.comanother good search engine also tryhttp://www.altavista.com and of course dont forget just typing stuff in your IE title bar for MSN.

Then we come to news sites

http://msnbc.msn.com/

http://edition.cnn.com/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/

http://www.nytimes.com/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/

http://www.guardian.co.uk

The Telegraph (right wing UK paper)

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/

http://www.aljazeera.com/i6.asp Your in the Iraq thread uderstand the world your talking about

For politics

http://www.whitehouse.gov Check the press briefings they are in vid format too but read the stuff as well and use it in quotes.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info know thy enemy This is a site with many links to people who you opose. Read up his stuff find out what he has to say pursue his links there are often little gems in there. Cross reference names dates and places via a search engine. They may be hiding something or have missed a lead. (that is a general point on all these sites)

http://www.amconmag.com/ Good Conservative Republican mag

Millitary Stuff

http://www.defencenews.com/

http://www.janes.comPrime intel on all things military if your parents or somone older can spring for the subscription this will get you the real beef before anyone else has heard.

These are just a start. Put them into your favourites in different sections and use them regularly and add to them or delete from them all the time.

I have not put any thing about religion or philosophy so pick your own or use a shovel but remember to always look at it from your oponents perspective. It is easier to beat an enemy you understand and can read. And hey you never know they might be right and you wouldnt want to be the guy who was saying the world is flat when they start bringing back the gold from the new world.

Finaly you are on the Iraq thread know what it is you talk about.

http://lunaville.org/warcasualties/Summary.aspx a list of official casulties to the coalition look at the faces. It would be honourable for you also to look up sites with a list of Iraqi casulties as well. They run to the tens of thousands in GW2 I leave you to find them with the search engines.

Kind Regards Walker

[miles teg 1]

JP226 will not do that. It seems to me that he takes great pride in as he says seeing us "backing down".

He seems himself as a person who agitates, intimidates and confuses liberals and thus takes great pride in doing so as it helps boost his self-esteem. He also seems to crave negative attention. In other words he seems to be like a classic troll and not even a good conservative.

The more you talk JP226, the more you look like a nutcase and not even a real conservative.

If what you say is true, then put me in contact with a staff member (that can be verified) of this general or the general himself.

I will openly call myself the biggest fool and appolgize openly and prefusely to you on this forum if you can do this.

I do not want to contact him to ask him questions. Only to simply suggest alternative ways of conducting this war and point out to him that some units in Iraq are already successfully doing this, but their work is being screwed up by other units who are not on the same sheet of music and possibly by a higher command that is not aware of the successes and failures of their own units because of a lack of any coordinated independent analysis.

So again if you can do this, I will apologize prefusely to you and you will have gained my trust. If not then you are just a nutcase troll who is just trolling to get negative attention to feed some serious self-esteem issues.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[Acecombat 0]

Excuse me Bavarian Battlesmurf i can easily answer your questions about all that stuff. but ho do i know you aren't a terrorist

A smurf cant be a terrorist or can he?

[Tovarish 0]

A smurf cant be a terrorist or can he?  

[Frisbee 0]

If there are enough,competent peacekeepers in Iraq,as you say,why isn't it built back up already,or anywhere nearing a state of stability?

Others have fenced with numbers already,but saying NY is more dangerous than Iraq....seriously?

If a general gives you info that's supposed to be secret,it already shows how competent your military would be.

What serious general would divulge info to any highschool kid?

And on what point has anyone here backed down?

You have yet to put forward proof that you really do know this general,and you still have to prove that there are enough competent peacekeepers to do the job,in fact,there still needs to be proof for these 'facts' you're so valiantly defending.

But instead,you direct personal attacks,ridicule nations people are from,and thus you piss on your own credibility level,so if you want to be taken seriously,at least try to discuss things maturely.