The Iraq thread 3

[ralphwiggum 6]

Just saw NBC news and they howed what appeared to be the firefight that the general was involved in. they showed some US soldiers shooting from top of a building, and the attackers were inside a white building that seemed like a mosque. A sniper took out 2 of those attackers.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/

[bn880 5]

Why do they show this, but nothing really from all the embedded reporters over the months.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Why do they show this, but nothing really from all the embedded reporters over the months.  

there aren't anymore embeds. They went home when the 'war' ended.

[ralphwiggum 6]

and even back then it was not like there were reporters assigned to each squad.

[Balschoiw 0]

Imagine the effect it would have had on Iraq population if Gen. John Abizaid had been killed or seriously wounded. It´s like you take out Bremer. Let´s see what happens next.

[walker 0]

Hi all

The miserable failure of George Bush Jnr. to find the WMD is part of what is going to cost TBA the election.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4253596/

According to the headline article on MSNBC.

It is is not just the WMD question though he is seen increasingly as being manipulated by more powerful men

People in the US are waking up to the fact that he has run them into record debt for which the bill is due after the election; as is the Iraq war bill.

Now the Grand Jury is looking into who leaked the name of the CIA operative thus threataining the lives of her sources.

All this on top of the timely investigations into the Vietnam War Dodger who now sits in the Oval Office.

If the Special Presecutors dont remove George Bush Jnr. then the electorate will.

All for what though? A war that should never have been fought.

Kind Regards Walker

[Balschoiw 0]

The manipulation and betrayal of US people has to stop.

Even right now there is a great percentage who still believe there are WMD´s in Iraq and that Iraq has/had close ties to AQ. AQ may be operating in Iraq (although that is not proven by now, it´s just started by TBA) but that´s a direct result of the TBA war. Before TBA went in AQ had no-go in Iraq.

G.W Bush will be remembered as the most stupid and betrayqal president the USA had for a long time. It´s a shame that such can happen in a country that has had the guts to fight dictators and always kept up freedom as the highest goal. The US have been abused by power hungry politicians.

I´m pretty sure Cheney goes unpunished and will continue his "career" after Bush is gone. That´s most odd as the world would really like to see all of them punished hard for what they did. But it´s the regular Joe who pay the bill with blood not the ones who took their country to war not only with Iraq but with the UN, europe and the rest of the world.

Bush may be stupid but that should not save him from the prison time he deserves.

The TBA has to be charged for mass murder.

[walker 0]

Hi all

The investigation into the leaking of the CIA operative's name has started to point at Dodgy Dick Cheyney.

Quote[/b] ]Vice President Dick Cheney's political future was at stake yesterday in Washington, where a grand jury investigation was questioning administration officials about his office's role in leaking the name of a CIA operative for political motives.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1145390,00.html

So maybe Dodgy Dick might be out before any of the others in TBA.

Kind Regards Walker

[theavonlady 2]

The investigation into the leaking of the CIA operative's name has started to point at Dodgy Dick Cheyney.

We've aleady had a Tricky Dick.

Could we use another title, like Cheeky Cheney?

[walker 0]

Hi Avon

I think Dodgy Dick Cheyney will stick better than Cheeky after all he is not one not one of the band the Cheeky Girls is he.

Dodgy Dick is how he is seen by many and it is a singularly apropriate apelation if you look at his investments and ties to the dodgier side of US business such as the Firm Haliburton (the Overpriced Oil that Cheated the US millitary etc. so I supose "Cheater Cheyney" might if he were still a share holder in the troubled company)

I now pronounce him Dodgy Dick Cheyney and forever may it stick.

Kind Regards Walker

[miles teg 1]

Imagine the effect it would have had on Iraq population if Gen. John Abizaid had been killed or seriously wounded. It´s like you take out Bremer. Let´s see what happens next.

General Abizaid is that big ball guy that looks like the mummy in the Mummy2 (The Mummy Returns) right?

I don't like him at all. I've yet to see him say anything half-way intelligent. He takes a "we're gonna kick their ass" attitude like Bush and seems to have a poor understanding of the complexity of what he's dealing with. But maybe I'm wrong and that's just the side of himself he shows reporters.

By the way if you want to see an awesome documentary, watch the web cast of Frontline's "Beyond Baghdad".

It's here:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/beyond/

I watched this show last night and it was very well done and it shows clearly that some of the US Army people (like the outgoing commander in Kirkuk) cleary undertood the nature of what they're dealing with. What's horrible however is because you have this troop rotation, the guy replaceing that highly skilled commander in Kirkuk may be a complete moron when it comes to diplomacy and he'll be starting from square one as he struggles to make sense of the situation.

In other words there does not seem to be a system in place in the Army to insure that competent people are chosen for critical jobs.

It also shows you that alot of the money for rebuilding the infrastructure in Iraq has dried up. It does not however mention if any new money ever came in for that purpose. This issue has not been brought up by the press much except for one report on Reuters that the Bush administration is planning on waiting to ask for more funding to rebuild Iraq until after the lections and that essentially they are rationing what funding they have left.

God only knows where or who all the profits from any Iraqi oil is going to.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[denoir 0]

We'll see what happens with Bush. I would not be opening the champagne bottle quite yet. It is getting interesting however.

As for Iraq, removing Bush or not, the problems remain the same. I don't see an easy fix at all. The damage is already done:

1) Saddam was removed, leaving a void in a broken and divided society, without anything taking his place to keep the country from collapsing on itself.

2) Inadequate resources were given to ensure peace and the wrong strategy was used.

3) The international community was alienated to the degree that any significant contribution can be ruled out.

[walker 0]

Hi all

The Dodgy Dick Cheyney Show just goes on and on.

As the Defense Contract Audit Agency has started to dig more in to the history of troubled the Halliburton company which has already filed for bankruptcy protection they have found more overcharging by the firm Dodgy Dick ran previous to becoming Vice President.

Quote[/b] ]_Top Halliburton officials frequently told employees that high prices charged by vendors were not a problem because the U.S. government would reimburse the costs and then pay the company an additional fee.

_Higher than necessary prices were paid for ordinary vehicles, leased for $7,500 a month, and for furniture and cellular telephone service.

_Halliburton tried to keep as many purchase orders as possible below $2,500 so its buyers could avoid the requirement to solicit quotes from more than one vendor.

_Supervisers provided buyers with a list of preferred Kuwaiti vendors, including companies that charged excessive prices. Buyers were not encouraged to identify alternative vendors

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm....blowers

Already acused of overcharging for Oil Hallibuton look set for investigations more in depth than those on EXON.

Quote[/b] ]The letter was sent to the Defense Contract Audit Agency, which found in a preliminary audit that Halliburton may have overcharged taxpayers $61 million in delivery of oil to Iraq.

Kind Regards Walker

[bn880 5]

We'll see what happens with Bush. I would not be opening the champagne bottle quite yet. It is getting interesting however.

As for Iraq, removing Bush or not, the problems remain the same. I don't see an easy fix at all. The damage is already done:

1) Saddam was removed, leaving a void in a broken and divided society, without anything taking his place to keep the country from collapsing on itself.

2) Inadequate resources were given to ensure peace and the wrong strategy was used.

3) The international community was alienated to the degree that any significant contribution can be ruled out.

I'll tell you what you need in Iraq: Communism. And as far as I can tell it is the most popular type of party so far.

Okay, who is going to start the whining?

[Akira 0]

We'll see what happens with Bush. I would not be opening the champagne bottle quite yet. It is getting interesting however.

As for Iraq, removing Bush or not, the problems remain the same. I don't see an easy fix at all. The damage is already done:

1) Saddam was removed, leaving a void in a broken and divided society, without anything taking his place to keep the country from collapsing on itself.

2) Inadequate resources were given to ensure peace and the wrong strategy was used.

3) The international community was alienated to the degree that any significant contribution can be ruled out.

I'll tell you what you need in Iraq: Communism. And as far as I can tell it is the most popular type of party so far.

Okay, who is going to start the whining?

I say if that's what they want, give it to them.

I could only imagine the goodwill garnered if Iraq says "We want this government and not Democracy" and we said "Right-o."

What are the chances of have that? Nil.

Hope Iraq like the Haliburton Democracy we are about to install...

[bn880 5]

Nil, even the UN would not likely agree to this... ahh, freedom.

It is strange how few reports there are of socialist/communist support in Iraq. Anyway, sure looks like a civil war down there is going to take place. In a way with the two major explosions lately you can say it is a civil war already.

[walker 0]

Hi all

TBA is unlikely to get much cooperation from UN members after spying on them at the UN.

http://edition.cnn.com/2004....ex.html

Once the US has got rid of TBA it will have a lot of bridges to rebuild. The trust that one expects in international afairs has been completly smashed by this spying incident. The news that the UK was involved as well has shocked many here.

Kind Regards Walker

[walker 0]

Hi all

Just how many Grand Jurys are investigating TBA now?

Quote[/b] ]A third grand jury in Washington is looking into allegations that a Halliburton subsidiary paid $180m in bribes to secure lucrative contracts to build a gas plant in Nigeria, at the time Mr Cheney was chief executive, from 1995 to 2000

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1145390,00.html

One I did not know about Dodgy Dick Cheyney sure gets around a bit.

Kind Regards Walker

[quicksand 0]

Insurgents free their comarades

Quote[/b] ]FALLUJAH, Iraq - Guerrillas shouting 'God is great' launched a bold daylight assault on an Iraqi police station and security compound west of Baghdad on Saturday, freeing prisoners and sparking a gunbattle that killed 20 people and wounded 30, police and hospital officials said.

This really cought my attention.Looks like the resistance is still as highly motivated as ever and imo this attack raised their moral even further and prooved the lack of training that Iraqi police are facing..Another intresting fact is that the gun battle lasted 1 hour but no American came at the scene.Where could they have been?

Also I suspect that someone important for the resistance was held at the time and this was the reason for the attack.They showed that they have good intelligence,same place was attacked when Abizaid was visiting.

[walker 0]

Hi quicKsanD

I draw you attention to something I was writing about back in Early December 2003

TBA Will have to bring in the draft

TBA and TBA2 are trying to do the GW2 on the cheap. Both in economics and in casulties they are willing to take. War is never cheap.

Should they rebuild Iraq as they have not found the WMD. Yes. They should anyway.

Should they be putting at least 4 times as many troops on the ground as now? Yes. That requires the Draft.

Should those troops be reserves and drafted from first responder units (police,fire and ambulance services)? Yes.

Should they be trained in arabic and Iraqi culture? Yes.

Should the draft also include a large number of mature proffesionals including archetects, engineers and business people? Yes.

Should the first port of call for the finances for the rebuilding Iraq be the personal fortunes of TBA and TBA2? Well where does the buck stop? So Yes.

Why the extra soldiers?

The country is not secure mainly in the Sunni triangle and little bit in the south.

You can not build power stations if they get blown up and the parts get stolen. Which is what happens now and not just to power stations to all aspects of civil society and its infrastructure. There just are not enough bods on the street to stop the crime.

Will it be better to use Iraqis? Yes but look at the problems they are having recruiting them even now. Plus there is a need to de bathify it first. And look at the situation today, they are not up to it, they are untrained. It is going to take two years. How long is a policeman's training or a soldier's?.

Why first responders and mature reservists?

Well young 18 to 25 year olds are great for violence and coming home in bodybags. Their reactions are fast and they are physicly fit and they are out of their heads on hormones so they are like good little attack dogs. I dont know about you but that described me at that age. I had my last fight in 1984 which would make me 25 (born in 59).

As you get older your skills at avoiding fights improve heck nowadays I stop them. I do climb so that could be part of it but I dont know many people over 25 who get into bar room brawls. Even my biker friends calmed down after 25.

My point is the more mature soldiers will be less confrontational. First responders are already trained and experienced.

I have been listening to soldiers there now and who have returned they are all saying the same thing.

What is working is large numbers of foot patrols and light vehicle patrols. With lots of contact to break down the barriers. That takes lots more troops to conduct that type of security and peacekeeping mission. It does not suit hi tech armoured attack units of the type doing the job there in the sunni triangle.

The troops need to be involved in grass roots rebuilding projects.

They have to stop being aliens in body armour and be the guy on the street corner who's family photos you have seen and who got you a job in the concrete making plant or the hospital or the new airport or got their kids a place in the reopened university. It is not body armour that protects those troops it is the whispered message and the shouted warning to look out.

The toops need to be able to understand the people who's nation they are occupying.

These are the tactics that are working in the north with US 101st Airborne and in the south with the UK forces. That is why despite being the most damaged areas of the country they are being rebuilt quicker. Is it harder in Sadams heartland hell yes but it still has to be done or it will be a running sore for the breading of terrorists untill it is returned to peace.

Will there be more US casulties? Yes. So suck it up and get on with the job.

Will the US UK tax payers be paying for it. Yes in the UK its going to cost us an extra 10 billion in taxes our chancellor just told us. Now we have the conservative press moaning about borrowing and future taxes. I hear the US made provisions of 80 billion loan to pay for the war; with an expected tax increase for every US tax payer of 70% for the next 20 years. That is almost double what there tax rate is now. The interest is also borrowed till after the US Presedential election. Hmm.

Is it gross?

Is it gross that Iraq was destroyed for this when simple continuous coup plots would have got rid of Sadam for peanuts. Yes.

Is it gross that the US and UK tax payers have to pay for TBA's and TBA2's failure at a time of war? Yes.

Is it gross that some people in TBA and Dick Cheyneys mates in Halliburton are making 6 to 8 billion off this and are then caught overcharging? Do I need to answere? Ok YES!

Kind Regards Walker

[bn880 5]

Insurgents free their comarades

Quote[/b] ]FALLUJAH, Iraq - Guerrillas shouting 'God is great' launched a bold daylight assault on an Iraqi police station and security compound west of Baghdad on Saturday, freeing prisoners and sparking a gunbattle that killed 20 people and wounded 30, police and hospital officials said.

This really cought my attention.Looks like the resistance is still as highly motivated as ever and imo this attack raised their moral even further and prooved the lack of training that Iraqi police are facing..Another intresting fact is that the gun battle lasted 1 hour but no American came at the scene.Where could they have been?

Also I suspect that someone important for the resistance was held at the time and this was the reason for the attack.They showed that they have good intelligence,same place was attacked when Abizaid was visiting.

This is exactly what goes on in Chechnya... seems like very similar behaviour, I wonder what connections they all have, besides the Muslim views.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Still, the resistance seems to kill less and less soldiers

[bn880 5]

However it may become, actually is quite effective in expanding the civil war, causing numerous political problems for the coalition.

[walker 0]

Still, the resistance seems to kill less and less soldiers

Hi Albert Schweizer

Instead the death rate among Iraqi members of the coalition has gone through the roof. Over a 100 this week alone.

It is because the 4th infantry have retreated from the sunni triangle. They have made the same mistake the French made in Vietnam. They live in sandbaged compounds and do amoured patrols.  

It is called the bunker mentality, you live in your cosy bunker not wanting to go out through fear and fantasize your in charge (Hitler made the same error).

The enemy owns the ground.

The US 4th infantry is loosing control of the sunni triangle. It is time a division with more on the ground troops was brought in, preferably two or three. 4th Infantry is far too reliant on technology they are not equiped or trained to perform a peace keeping role.

No Exit Strategy other than TBA are chickening out of the Mess they have left.

Disgusted Walker

[Gollum1 0]

Walker, not saying this is incorrect, but how do you know that the 4th Infantry has changed to the "bunker mentality" and reduced their presence on the streets? Link?