Here are a few screenshots....

[Aaron Kane 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from The Blind Sniper on 9:05 pm on Nov. 24, 2001

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Black Op on 2:21 am on Nov. 25, 2001

the explosions on this game look pretty dam good , there realistic, kicking up dirt, not a flame ball like ofp :biggrin:

<span id='postcolor'>

Yes.. I thought that was pretty cool too

Until I noticed that they "kick up dirt" when they explode in the air

OFPs contact grenades suck. The explosions look pretty cool.. lacking in graphics, but grenades do have (a bit) of an explosion, then dust & smoke.

I love those movies where a bamboo bridge explodes in a massive ball of flame... lol... hilarious

GR graphics are nothing special. Much like OFP graphics. Except OFP has about a million more things you can do. I often find myself walking up to a support guy trying to pick up his Minimi... lol. "d*amnit. I'm off to play OFP"

The Bradley in GR looks no better than the one in Half Life (crap)

GR has some neat little things.. AI which hides behind trees.. but thats all trivial really, nothing special about it. They still sit infront of the enemy and get themselves shot. The soldiers look ok. The guns look worse than RS - They sound cool, but unrealistic.

GR isnt something I'd pay for. I might honour redstorm by buying a burned version of it for $2.. & playing it when OFP crashes

<span id='postcolor'>

Hey! That Bradley in Half Life would kick your ass... unless you had a crowbar or Glock, or any other piss-weak weapon

My jaw dropped when I blew up an Abrams with my Glock and crowbar. Then I cried.

[SpaceAlex 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Fishu on 11:31 pm on Nov. 24, 2001

Did I hear spacealex say that trees in GR suck?

umm.. I assume that must be because of his poor video card.

I like distant trees and close in trees aren't bad either.

Perhaps tad too much fog.. at least at the swamp its annoying, but in fact there should be alot fog anyway.

Have you guys ever looked at the streets in map M10?

Reflections from puddles are very nice!

<span id='postcolor'>

Well. This is not just my opinion. lots of people think tha trees are ugly. Even some rewievers sed that trees are not nice.

BTW. It must be my weak video card. I should really start thinking of replacing my old GeForce 3.

(Edited by SpaceAlex at 12:28 am on Nov. 25, 2001)

[FetishFool 0]

Hey, more screen shots of GR please!

The gameplay is crap, but I like looking at the pictures.

[SpaceAlex 0]

Now, really. Who's real here. This game gameplay sucks big time. Soldiers are ugly detailed, you don't have 3rd person view, nothing. You can't even see your gun. Explosives are not so good detailed too. How can you even think of comparing this game with OFP.

The only thing i like on this game is grass, and some bushes. Really nice detail. I think, that islands in OPF would look much better with grass, and bushes like those in GR. You feel better.

[Fishu 0]

Spacealex,

I can only say you're one helluva OFP fanboy

perhaps time to double check your eyes and GF3 for possible flaws..

If we go into details, OFP soldiers has much uglier modelling and textures than GR's, which is very typical when sees that GR is happening in small place and OFP in big.

Have you ever looked at the texture files of OFP?

Those are ~255 color bitmaps, with some compression used it seems. (At least same sort of distortion in graphics than what JPG compression would make)

GR uses 16-bit colors in texture files, like already RS series did.

Also bitmaps are bigger than OFP's, adding for accuracy in textures.

Graphics are in almost every way more accurate than in OFP, however vehicles are ugly and smoke kills FPS madly.

(bonus side of smaller maps, more accurate graphics and that minus side of course being smaller maps)

However GR's AI is overly stupid, with some occasional hiding behind obstacles.

(those squad mates sure likes to run in the ####, they just cant stay put)

[Cannon Fodder 0]

You asked for them, here are more screenshots:

CF out.

[Satchel 0]

Jepp, GR does look very good regarding character models, but as Fishu already pointed out that´s no miracle because it´s always a resource issue which graphics engine will be appropiate and suited for a certain game.

I don´t think OFP´s engine is less advanced, or outdated, actually it does an excellent job displaying detail on such a large enviroment...try this with a Quake III engine, you probably won´t be satisfied with the results. While the Quake III engine is especially suited for displaying little areas indoors with great Detail and Quality, it´s unsuited for displaying realistic terrain like we see it in OFP. I do think that the visitor and objective engines OFP uses are in fact state of the art regarding modelling of large realistic outdoor enviroments, can´t think of another engine that would be equally suited this time.

As for resources, a programmer has only limited resources available, as he has to program a game for the masses, each with different systems...that´s why console games usually look better and play faster than PC games, as there the resources are constant numbers not variables, so he can program for a specific system setup.

When comparing GR to OFP, GR´s maps are much much smaller, so more resources can be spend on Details and eyecandy instead of large terrain, also the line of sight is much more restricted, about 100m only in GR. As i got the GR beta, i turned off fog completely on the first map, it´s unplayable with details on, even on a Geforce 3.

The GR engine uses textures ranging from 16x16 to 2048x2048 compared to OFP´s 256x256. However try to run OFP with the GR engine, it would be impossible without castrating the engine to a level where current OFP graphics are looking much better.

A forest in OFP looks like a forest with hundreds of trees, and even thousands of them on a single island. Now imagine what a processor would be necessary to run it with equal visibility with the GR engine, where the trees look better, have better textures and are actually bending in the wind- I.M.P.O.S.S.I.B.L.E, you would hardly get 1 single FPS once you´re near a forest with todays computer systems.

[Satchel 0]

Here some screenshots that demonstrates how GR can look with proper settings and according system, they´re 1024x768x32 and all detail turned up plus external tuning (NVMax):

[Satchel 0]

continued.......

[Satchel 0]

continued.....

(Edited by Satchel at 7:46 pm on Nov. 25, 2001)

[Aaron Kane 0]

Would everyone please look at the pic Satchel posted with the NVG view? Notice how the woman is lighter than her background. This is what I was proposing for OFP.

[Fenna 0]

thank you for ruining my day downloading thse pics.

[Maldita Vecindad 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Aaron Kane on 7:08 pm on Nov. 25, 2001

 Would everyone please look at the pic Satchel posted with the NVG view?  Notice how the woman is lighter than her background.  This is what I was proposing for OFP.

<span id='postcolor'>

yes... but that's not real. I've used NVG googles and they look like OFP's ones. If you make people lighter than the background we'll star to see all people using NVGs to detect enemys from large distance like many do in Urban Terror (a Quake 3 mod... recommended).

That would make the snipers a total overkill in night missions.

[SpaceAlex 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Fishu on 7:41 am on Nov. 25, 2001

Spacealex,

I can only say you're one helluva OFP fanboy

perhaps time to double check your eyes and GF3 for possible flaws..

If we go into details, OFP soldiers has much uglier modelling and textures than GR's, which is very typical when sees that GR is happening in small place and OFP in big.

Have you ever looked at the texture files of OFP?

Those are ~255 color bitmaps, with some compression used it seems. (At least same sort of distortion in graphics than what JPG compression would make)

GR uses 16-bit colors in texture files, like already RS series did.

Also bitmaps are bigger than OFP's, adding for accuracy in textures.

Graphics are in almost every way more accurate than in OFP, however vehicles are ugly and smoke kills FPS madly.

(bonus side of smaller maps, more accurate graphics and that minus side of course being smaller maps)

However GR's AI is overly stupid, with some occasional hiding behind obstacles.

(those squad mates sure likes to run in the ####, they just cant stay put)

<span id='postcolor'>

I sed already, what i think. I won't change my mind, because i'm right. Models are uglier. They look more realistic in OFP. I don't know what it is. An animal or a man. Doesn't matter what graphic, GR is using. I know that this game can run with 16, 24 or 32 bit textures. Landscape textures are 2048X2048, i think. OFP is running at 246X264 landscape textures. Yes. It sounds like big difference. But, i don't see so much improvements in graphic, even if textures in GR are so high. And, you have smaller landscape, and if you would have that high textures in OFP you would dicover lags in gameplay, because one are is so big. But, i still think that there's nothing wrong with OFP graphic. Landscape looks OK in OFP. Trees are good looking, at medium and far distances. In GR the landscape ends and you see forests like a pice of paper in the background. I hate this.

I won't say anything about GR gameplay. You don't see your gun, you don't have 3rd wiev, A.I is stupid.......

(Edited by SpaceAlex at 8:24 pm on Nov. 25, 2001)

[Fishu 0]

16/32bit in games usually defines color depth, usually 32bit is only used in making special effects look better with.

Color transition is much nicer in 32bit than 16bit.

However, textures has own color depth.

OFP could use 16-bit textures, instead of just having ~255 color textures. (thats what I got as a result from exported OFP textures, maximum of 255 colors used, even though format seems to be able to hold 16bit colors)

Format of textures actually seems to be 16/24 bit, but for some reason with limited color count. (needs that multimillion depth to assign alpha channels)

While GR uses also 16/24 bit color depth file format and also uses maximum colors in textures.

[SpaceAlex 0]

if you would have 16-bit or 32-bit textures with full color you would dicovering big lags when playing. No processor or graphic card is that good to handle this textures in a game like OFP.

In any case. I think that OFP graphic is great for so big islands. Nohing is outdated, here in OFP. Graphic in OFP doesn't bother me. I think that OFP is using right texture colors. It's possible that Operation Flashpoint II will have better graphic. We'll have better CPU's then and better gaming technology. We can expect even better graphic and even bigger maps in OFP in the future.

Overall, i think that OFP graphic is great in any case. GhostRecon could have better looking trees. They're ugly. Bushes are beautiful yes, but some trees aren't. Not all trees. Don't get me wrong.

[Cannon Fodder 0]

Thanks Satchel for showing just how good GR can look.

Apart from bumping this thread, I'd just like to throw down the gauntlet to SpaceAlex, who seems so intent on ripping GR to shreds that he's even tried to insult the graphics of the game, the one area where GR clearly out-shines OFP. So, I'd like SpaceAlex to find an image in OFP that is beautiful enough to topple one of Sacthel's for "Tactical game screenshot of the month!" (I made that up, can you tell?). The challenge is on!

CF out.

[762WorldOrder 0]

I'll sum up my whole argument here:

Ghost Recon: Great graphics (well, for the most part), decent gameplay

Operation Flashpoint: Decent graphics, great gameplay

I know which one I'll still be playing a year from now.

[GFX707 0]

beside OFP, GR just seems so one-dimensional

[SpaceAlex 0]

I already sed what i think. GhostRecon gameplay totaly sucks. i can't imagine how can u love this game, after OFP. i wouldn't say noting if you wouldn't have OFP on your disk.

Ghose recon graphic is not great. Far from that. I sed already that you see forests like picture. This is two-dimensional ok, not three. And it looks ugly. Some trees looks ugly too. Bushes, terrarian and small trees are great. Models, also sucks. Compare games. Why do u need pictures. I don't have time for this.

[timmy 0]

dont get me wrong i love OFP, ive followed it since the very begining. It set the standard for tactical shooters, and it will never be topped. But I like GR just as much, but in a different way. You can play a mission in a ruined city when its raining and you can hear your feet splashing in the puddles and you can hear your gear rattling as you run for cover. You can see the tracers coming from the machine gun in the bunker wizzing past your head and slaming into the mud making a heart-racing thud. You can hide behind your fallen friends seeing the bulets crash into their body and blood gushing out. And in my opinion this game gets my adrenaline going more than OFP. They are both my favorite games ever, and i play them both equally. The issue of the graphics of GR being worse than OFP is not true. While GRs graphics are much sharper, OFPs graphics are not expected to be as good, because the engine is made for a huge landscape and many AI in the same level at once.

My point is that if you like OFP try this game too. You dont have to try to be so "loyal" to OFP and not supporting any other tactical shooters. Download the demo and if you like it I recommend buying it.

P.S. OFP still rocks.

[Rifleman 0]

okay i got a few questions bout GR

1. is it out yet

2. does it have a mission editor or is it just a campaign mode where u play thru it a few times and get tired of it i know that if OFP didnt have a mission editor i would have quit playing it by now

3. if its out, how is the multiplayer - does it lag bad like OFP or is it good as in speed wise like delta force

4. should i buy it, i love OFP, i loved Rainbow 6 on the PSX but got tired of it quick because only 1 campaign and a short 1, i liked delta force for its multiplayer even tho its not realistic, oh and i play infiltration but it lags alot in multiplayer for me

[Vegabond 0]

GR is out..

and you can edit some things in the game such as weapons and such

more great mods just like for rogue spear mods

[Random 0]

Cannon Fodder, Op Flashpoint is months older than Ghost Recon. Of course GR has better graphics. If it didn't, there'd be something very wrong.

But I still think that Op Flashpoint's graphics are excellent considering how big the gameplay area is, and how many things are modelled at a time.

[ixnay 1]

Some things I like in Ghost Recon:

The "moving foliage" makes gameplay really spooky. In most other games, it's easy to spot a body in the game while you're standing still (or prone). You simply look for the pixels that are moving vs. not moving.

This becomes REALLY difficult with GR being that trees are constantly moving. (Wish the grass moved too...like in Deadly Dozen). Big Plus to GR!!

I love the SFX!! I don't care if it sounds more hollywood, or maybe not the most accurate. When you get into a firefight in GR, you're well aware that the sh*t just hit the fan. The richochet noises are well conceived... the impact sounds are excellent and diverse. I can honestly say the sound (in both games current state) is far better implemented in GR than in OFP. (Comon BIS....here's your opportunity to improve and vanquish)

The indoor environment is much better and more believable. Doors open. There is more evidence that you're in a building rather than a few polygons thrown together to form walls and an enclosure. Stairs are better implemented. The effect of being inside a house while you're being assaulted from outside is unnerving to say the least. Really gets the ol' blood pumping.

That being said, Here are some things I DON'T LIKE about GR.

The graphics, while topically and at first glance seem better than OFP's, really pale in some areas. These are, detail on trees and grass, facial expressions and "individualness". I realize that it looks that 16-bit color is heads a shoulders above 8-bit (256 colors), I'm still not impressed. GR displays some "effects" that I don't care for (and some that I do) in War Sims. Some things seem to be made to look "too" colorful when in reality they wouldn't be. OFP has a gritty, war-like color palette and feel to it. It draws me in more and distracts less. This is of course, completely subjective and simply my opinion. The previous statement should not be argued, as it is groundless for conjecture and debate.

The A.I. (having played through most of the campaign and lots of  Multiplayer Co-op  and team missions) really bites. I've never seen more retarted comrades and enemies. I was sorely disappointed in the amount of thought put into the A.I. I think most of the other posters pointed out all outstanding gripes regarding it's extreme incompetence. I agree wholeheartedly. OFP 1.30 A.I. is superior in every way.

GR is also very limited in scope to just small squad based tactics and gameplay, where OFP is boundless in comparison. I can't tell you how many times I simply had to grit my teeth when I ran headlong into the "invisible" barrier to which GR subjected me to. I suppose that's how it had to be done to preserve the "seamless" environment, but I still don't care for it after playing in OFP's expansive, almost unending vastness.

For example, We played a map at our LAN with almost 75-100 A.I. and 20 some odd of us attempting to take out a base and its defenders. I seriously doubt any GR will come close to it's measure of magnitude and the tales of valor which accompanied it.

....The first wave of soldiers who launched their LAW's at the unsuspecting grouping of T-72's and their drivers/gunners.

....The 2 snipers who (with only several rounds remaining up until this point) took out the sentries who might have given our position away.

....The immobile soldier (shot in the legs) who crawled into the HumVee and drove into the thick of it to distract the droves of soldiers piling out of the barracks

....Our grenadiers who, with skillful aim, lobbed death pineapple after death pineapple into the masses of soldiers.

....Our blackhawk helicopter pilot, who hovered overhead (with no ammunition) garnering attention from the enemy while taking more rounds to his chopper than he probably cared to.

....The same immobile solder who threw himself from the humvee and crawled behind some of the remaining positioned tanks who were battering our constantly moving front line. After planting 2 satchel charges and attempting to crawl to safety he detonated the charges while still in the blast radius, because he was being fired at upon being discovered.

It's moments like these in OFP that will go down in multiplayer history at our LAN and will be brought up in conversations for quite some time.

"Hey! Remember that time when??....."

What I'm saying here is that I don't think Ghost Recon will deliver that kind of "memorable" gameplay.

Just my two cents.

.:iXnay