Here are a few screenshots....

[SpaceAlex 0]

Well, guys. Those people in GR looks like crap to me. Face graphic or body graphic don't look realistic at all. Just look over this faces. They're completley digital. OPf have a lot better models, and they look more realistic. I didn't say anythin about OPf bodies. West soldier and Civiliand bodies in OPF looks strange too, but East, Resistance and West officers and special forces looks better then Ghost recon bodies.

Also the tree graphic is not that good too. OPF have a crap graphic on trees at close postions, but Ghost recon have bad grpahic on trees even at far distances.

OK, enough, for now. We won't to listen something bad about Ghost Recon don't we. i don't have A.I problems, but i don't think that A.I is so good as OPF 1.30 A.I.

I don't care if cannon posts something like that, here. I really don't care. Just the Developers will not be so happy, to post that Ghost Recon is better then OPF, here, on their forum. I wouldn't mind if it would be better, but it's not.

[Cannon Fodder 0]

Really? Jesus man! 3 men down to two terrorists?

I have never had any of the AI problems you have experienced. When I tell a squad to cover my team, they do it, and do it well!

You'll notice that when you use specialists they will provide much better back-up. Only when a squad has a team leader who has 5 or more leadership points will you really see some decent squad management. Seriously though, I can't belive your squad got massacred!

My squad commanding skills though have had a lot of practice. I spent extensive time in the the first mission, testing the AI, learning it's limitations, and what to do and not do with my team. One thing I learned is that the AI has exceptional aim. Place them in covering roles (with holding down the left-mouse and assigning a fire arc) or sniping roles and they're excellent. Tell them to assault an area and they'll do it well.

I suppose you've got to learn the limitations with the AI. In OFP, I have people covering me and they get massacred, although curiously this has never happened to me in GR. And OFP's AI is not perfect. When commanding a squad, I think there's far too much micro-management for my liking, and it's hard to really direct a squad in a firefight when you have no waypoint system, and a tricky series of numbered sub-menus to traverse.

And GR is an excellent game when it really gets going. Give it chance, some of the later missions are fantastic. Mission 11 stands out as one of the best, but really all of them are great. Still, I find it worrying that we both have the same game, but yours stands out as being markedly different AI wise.

CF out.

[Cannon Fodder 0]

Well, we're just going around in circles here. All that's left to say is to go and download the demo, try it, if you like it, keep it/buy it, if you don't uninstall it/take it back to the shop.

I tried OFP loved it, bought it. I tried GR, loved it, bought it. Really it's all down to personal opinion. I just happened to love GR, Satchel liked it (as far as I can tell!!)

CF out.

[Satchel 0]

I have the U.S. import bought in Germany, so i suppose our games should be pretty much the same ?!

For this specific situation, when covering an area, i have to assign always fire-arcs to the team, else it wouldn´t make much sense to have them cover a safe place and exposing their backs in the direction of the enemy.

The exact location for this 3 men team was just below the helicopter crash site down the slope, with them facing direction to the Hotel, that was already cleared by me.

We had their backs and they had ours...normally.

As soon as the radio sounded of i sprinted down to see what was happening, as i arrived all three dead and 2 Tangos stood on their position.

I don´t recreate how much points the teamleader had in his properties, but he was the one with the highest points out of the team.

As far as accuracy goes, the enemy is usually more precise with their weapons, although im distributing points first to accuracy of my men, so that everyone has at least 4 points.

(Edited by Satchel at 2:13 am on Nov. 23, 2001)

[Random 0]

Cannon Fodder, the way you describe it, it sounds like Op Flashpoint with smaller maps and no vehicles. Doesn't make me want to rush out and buy it.

[m79 0]

The weapon models look a bit poor. Looks like they used th same ones outta RS.

I have all the R6 games (Except Covert ops and Black thorn , I am not paying 90AUS$ for an expansion) , but

I will wait for this to hit budget , it just looks like a polished version of DF2/LW , and they where nowwhere near as replayable as my current game that I play 100% of the time, OFP.

Thanks for the info though.

[Dysstatic 0]

I'm not impressed. Not by the screenshots, and not by the mission descriptions.. The screenshots you showed are s**t to say the least. OFP in 1600x1200 looks *FAR* better than GR.

[Guest Scooby]

I tried Ghost Recon demo and it has nice graphics, especially ground shapes but it lacks trees and such.

Mission area is so small that you cant really say it would be realistic. In real life no one would wait attack in area without having having forward observation positions (dont know what it is in english). to get early warning of enemy or without having dug in positions or hastily set defences. In GR men just wander around the area. They have absolutely no set defences. And for the little I tried out game AT weapon is even less realistic than in OFP.

[Pete 1]

everything is less realistic, not only the silly at-weapons.

aiming is bad, you have a crosshair that moves a lot when you fire, after u pull the trigger the bullets go random, you cant learn to control it..the game does it for you.

in ofp when firing a AK with fullauto is very much as in real life, you can drag the mouse down to compensate the recoil just in real life you would tighten your grip and adjust aim while firing.

the AI is wortless..i agree with satchel.

they cant be trusted to be left alone, ai sniper rarely shoots when he has a good field of fire.

i attacked a fortified outpost with my team, all but me died, so next time i went alone and killed the enemy without problems, i tried to send my guys alone without me, they didnt kill anyone before they all died...they dont use cover....they dont target the most critical danger, ofp AI is much better and does take cover.

the only good i find in GR is graphics and sound, i love the sound of the saw.

but then again..a good movie gives the same for me.

(Edited by Pete at 1:08 pm on Nov. 23, 2001)

[Maldita Vecindad 1]

I also bought both games...

And I must say that OFP infantry experience in better that Ghost Recon...

Ghost Recon Experience is closer to the Black Ops missions that to real grunts firefights like in OFP. Ghost play like delta force with controlable teams.

I'm not saying that Ghost Recon is bad. Is a trully excelent game and if you are a tactical shooter fan you should buy it (of course after buying the best of all tactical shooters: OFP)

Next a comparison of both games from my point of view:

Ghost Recon:

*Good Multiplay (better than OFP but also has many troubles especially with Ubi soft the same crap as gamespy)

*Better Grafics (not too better... but the tree model and players models are pretty good. But they used fog a lot. And I mean a lot)

*Sounds: They are more holliwood style

Less bugs......

Operation Flashpoint

* More Weapons and better modeled (yes you can see the weapon in your hands)

* Sniper rifles that work and work good

* Better enemy and friendly AI (But I must admit the enemy AI in ghost recon is trully excelent)

* You can drive all kinds of vehicles: Jeeps, tanks, Helicopters, Planes, Cars, etc.(nothing is sweeter that the hind)

* Bigger maps (way bigger... I mean at least 10 times bigger that the Ghost Recon maps....and this is the reason of the lower quality of grafics compare to Ghost Recon)

* More options to control your squad. You can tell them to crawl... to lay mines.... to guard a base... etc.

* Map editor to create your own missions and maps (in fact there are a lot of missions to download)

* Weapons and vehicles addons (user created and official)

* War feel.(Don't know how to explained but OFP is just too real... I love it)

*Laser targeting and bomb dropping planes.

Also Ghost recon campaing is too short. Less than 20 hours in veteran mode. (OFP took me like 50)

(Edited by keKoJoNes at 4:08 pm on Nov. 23, 2001)

[Supah 0]

i played GR too and managed to kill ppl by shooting at a tent 1 meter away from them with a m-16..... plus when u die u just respawn at the starting point but ur team stays where u left them. They tend to get massacred. There is no ability to pick up weapons ur enemies dropped. in short im sticking with ofp

[kronzky 5]

I had high hopes for GR myself, after all the hype surrounding it, and after having bought and enjoyed all the previous Rainbow Six games, but the demo was a huge disappointment for me. (I had nearly pre-ordered the final version. Boy, was I glad I didn't, after trying the demo.)

The biggest letdown for me was the AI (friendly as well as enemy). My own guys would trot down some path like a bunch of drunks with tunnelvision. They didn't look around them, they didn't use cover, they were just oblivious to their whole surroundings, and got mowed down by the enemy on a regular basis...

The enemy AI is better in some regards, in that they do use cover or go prone, but that's about as far as it goes. You can be inside a house and empty a magazine into one of the guys, and his buddy standing in the next room, is not moving an inch. Ai behaviour has been hardly improved at all in GR, compared to Rogue Spear. It still has all the old weaknesses and failures. Enemy positioning is another weakness that is quite disappointing. Once you've played a mission, you know exactly where each enemy is positioned (so if you found one once hiding just behind a corner, next time you just sneak up to that corner, pop around it and kill him. Very exciting.). Enemy AI also has the habit of this lemming-like behaviour of running into exactly the same spot where one of their buddies has just been killed; so you just sit there and wait, and take out one after the other...

I won't go into locational damage too much (if you shoot some guy in the foot he's more likely to die than of a headshot), because I'm sure that's something that can be fixed by an update.

But as far as variety of gameplay is concerned - yes, you can decide whether you want to kill them slowly and quietly and fast and with a bang. But that's about how far it'll go. If you look at the totally different ways you can solve an objective in OFP, and the different storylines that sometimes result from that, you'll see that there is no comparison.

But to hear it from the horse's mouth, just go to the GR forums. After the demo came out, I'd say 90% of the posts there were mainly negative. (And these were hardcore Rainbow Six fans, who couldn't wait for the next release, and grabbed it the days it came out.)

[SpaceAlex 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from keKoJoNes on 3:04 pm on Nov. 23, 2001

I also bought both games...

And I must say that OFP infantry experience in better that Ghost Recon...

Ghost Recon Experience is closer to the Black Ops missions that to real grunts firefights like in OFP. Ghost play like delta force with controlable teams.

I'm not saying that Ghost Recon is bad. Is a trully excelent game and if you are a tactical shooter fan you should buy it (of course after buying the best of all tactical shooters: OFP)

Next a comparison of both games from my point of view:

Ghost Recon:

*Good Multiplay (better than OFP but also has many troubles especially with Ubi soft the same crap as gamespy)

*Better Grafics (not too better... but the tree model and players models are pretty good. But they used fog a lot. And I mean a lot)

*Sounds: They are more holliwood style

Less bugs......

Operation Flashpoint

* More Weapons and better modeled (yes you can see the weapon in your hands)

* Sniper rifles that work and work good

* Better enemy and friendly AI (But I must admit the enemy AI in ghost recon is trully excelent)

* You can drive all kinds of vehicles: Jeeps, tanks, Helicopters, Planes, Cars, etc.(nothing is sweeter that the hind)

* Bigger maps (way bigger... I mean at least 10 times bigger that the Ghost Recon maps....and this is the reason of the lower quality of grafics compare to Ghost Recon)

* More options to control your squad. You can tell them to crawl... to lay mines.... to guard a base... etc.

* Map editor to create your own missions and maps (in fact there are a lot of missions to download)

* Weapons and vehicles addons (user created and official)

* War feel.(Don't know how to explained but OFP is just too real... I love it)

*Laser targeting and bomb dropping planes.

Also Ghost recon campaing is too short. Less than 20 hours in veteran mode. (OFP took me like 50)

(Edited by keKoJoNes at 4:08 pm on Nov. 23, 2001)

<span id='postcolor'>

LOL, i actually think that Ghost Recon tree and player graphic sucks big time at close and at far positions. Players really looks digital. Trees are ugly at close and at far positions. OFP trees are ugly only at close positions.

[SpaceAlex 0]

Look at this model:

[SpaceAlex 0]

Is this better graphic

[Guest]

GR suxx0rz...I have the demo. It really sux!

[Cannon Fodder 0]

I don't know why, but for some reason I feel the need to defend GR when the rest of you are ripping it to shreds!!

The game is bloody fantastic! I was messing around with the AI today and found out the best methods for taking out people at differing ranges:

Long range:

Standard attack mode, standard approach

Mid range:

Suppressive, standard approach

Close range:

Recon, at all costs

What I thinnk is fantastic about ghost recon is when you are in recon and at all costs, they wait till they have been seen, or look like they've been seen, before killing the enemy.

Alright, I feel you are all looking at OFP thru Rose-tinted glasses. I don't wanna pull rank here, but I've been in these forums since about May, and when the game came out in England, over on the miss-match forums there was a #### of a lot of complaining! No kidding, I really love OFP, and due to the addons etc. I think I'll be playing that for longest, but here are some of the complaints OFP had on it's first days of release...

POOR ENEMY ENGAGEMENT AT CLOSE RANGE

ENEMY COULD SEE YOU EXTREMELY WELL AT NIGHT

MANY, MANY BUGS

MANY, MANY AI ISSUES (SUPER-HUMAN HEARING, WOULD NOT PERORM CERTAIN ACTIONS ETC...)

SOME MISSIONS COULDN'T BE COMPLETED

FADE ISSUES

MISSION EDITOR UN-DOCUMENTED

And lets not forget GR has fantastic multiplayer out-of-the-box, unlike GR (for us in the UK) or a lag-free game on a 56k.

Sorry to rip OFP to shreds, but you have to remember GR has just come out. It will be patched, no doubt about that, and already in this early state, GR is more polished than OFP!

And the point about the models... show me a better model than that in OFP... and that's a very poor shot anyhow.

CF out.

[Cannon Fodder 0]

And another thing... this may sound small but when you choose a team in GR you are getting personalities, people you choose based on their abilities, personality and name, not just some faceless number.

When one of your men goes down in GR, you really feel it. You'll be all like..

"d*amn, I just lost Stone! He was my best sniper!"

But in OFP you're like...

"3 is down.. what was he again, the machine gunner? Oh who cares, they'll be another on the next mission..."

When I lost Chavez on Ebony horse (the one in the desert fortress) on Rogue Spear, it was really devastating! I really try and get attached to my squad in OFP, but it just doesn't happen, as there are always more coming along.

Does OFP let you choose your whole team's load-outs for VERY mission? Does OFP have additional features unlocked for advanced performance (and I don't mean additional missions)?

In short, I love OFP for it's ambition, scope and how it's managed (and being the first game to give us PROPER squad management), but I love GR for its polish, personality, asthetics and gameplay.

CF out.

Sorry, but that's my opinion. I'd love to hear what others thought of GR!

[Cannon Fodder 0]

More screenshots:

CF out.

[MajHavoc 0]

Greets!

I have both. They both are fun.

But to compare them is like comparing an orange to a tangerine. They both are citrus fruit, but that's where the simularities end, IMHO.

/0

Maj

[FetishFool 0]

Deadly Dozen is a pretty amazing game.

It's identicle to Half-Life: Day of Defeat, though.

Who else likes either of these games?

[PV 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Scooby on 12:26 pm on Nov. 23, 2001

Mission area is so small that you cant really say it would be realistic. In real life no one would wait attack in area without having having forward observation positions (dont know what it is in english).  to get early warning of enemy or without having dug in positions or hastily set defences.

<span id='postcolor'>

FYI, in English its LP/OP (Listening Post/Observation Post)

[Fishu 0]

Nice looking, but lacks some..

I enjoy more single playing in OFP, it has more feeling, however multiplaying is more for GR with smaller enviroment.

It has some graphic glitches, sound popping and crashing problems..

I don't really like its 'old RS' style reticule, where bullets randomly spread in round pattern, without recoil bringing it up.

At least bullets has velocity now and those aren't insta hitting when shot.

AI really isn't any troublesome, generally its idiotic.

It's best comes up in its way to sometimes seek for cover, but what it does after then or before, is completely idiotic.

AI basically rushers or stands still ,then sometimes 'seek for cover' sorta script kicks in and it goes to cover.

It's funny to see them come almost unsuspiciously through open one after another and dying one after another, sometimes finding cover and then continuing stupid walk towards shooters, or standing still and shooting at them.

However, that isn't IMHO biggest problem..

Biggest problem is that overly stupid interface, which horrifies me.

1. Weapon kit system is total idiotism - this game is supposed to be moddable, it is that, but this weapon kit system is somewhat idiotic and weapon mods becomes rather unbearable with the amount of kits needed.

I would of rather kept the old RS style, pick what you want and perhaps make it so that theres some weight limits preventing from taking all the crap with you.

If you take AT4, its a nono for grenades and so on... for basic idea.

2. If someone ever complained about RS multiplayer interface (no, im not talking of netcode), he would probably think GR's MP interface worse.

In main mp menu, theres vote and kick under same button - now, there comes a problem if someone decides to kick vote some person, host gets problems to kick the guy right out since vote/kick button now turns into voting, which after its greyed out.

it's bit akward in other aspects also.

good game ruined with stupid interface.

[Random 0]

I expect that if Op Flashpoint had 400x400m maps, no vehicles and less weapons, it would be a lot more polished. Hmmm. Ghost Recon concentrates on only one part of what Op Flashpoint is, so it's no wonder it's more polished.

Cannon Fodder, at least stop posting screenshots every second post. Post links if you want, but for people on a 56K, it's really bloody annoying.

[DEATH AT THE DOOR 0]

Ok, I have to admit that the graphics in GR are really good, but you need a monster system to enjoy them completelly when OFP doen't need 2 much. Yeah, the levels in GR are way too foggy (no good sniping) and the real star of Flashpoint is the ability to drive vehicles.

Then a note about the storyline: we all know about the cold war and that type of situatin could theoretically exist. But what about GR's storyline?! "In near future, the reds are on the path of war again" WTF is that?! Seeing the condition of ex-USSR makes a grown man cry, so how could the reds do it again?!