Next time you think sci-fi, think again

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]just a very expensive ballistic dildo that crashed into the ocean

That is an interesting mental image .

Wasn't there an Ariane that blew up spectacularly?

[denoir 0]

Wasn't there an Ariane that blew up spectacularly?

Yeah, a few of them actually  

And it's always the damn software. It's not out of masochism that NASA and the Russians are running antiquated software. It's very old, but reliable.

I know a guy who worked as an engineer on ESA's recovery crew. After one of the Arianes exploded they dug up the main computer in the middle of a jungle in South America in a 5 m deep impact hole. It was intact  

Well, they seem to have gotten the bugs out for now as the Ariane is actually the most used booster today (mostly for putting satellites in earth orbit).

Edit: Here's a nice video of the ballistic Ariane, decorating the swamps and jungles of French Guayana

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]I know a guy who worked as an engineer on ESA's recovery crew. After one of the Arianes exploded they dug up the main computer in the middle of a jungle in South America in a 5 m deep impact hole. It was intact

That is one seriously reinforced computer. I doubt mine would do very well in the middle of an explosion.

[denoir 0]

History of Space Disasters

Actually, the Ariane is in comparison not so bad. Four lost boosters out of now several hundred used.

Quote[/b] ]October 1960 -- Ninety-one people are killed when an R-16 rocket explodes at the Baikonur space center in Kazakhstan in the Soviet Union.

January 1967 -- Three U.S. astronauts -- Virgil Grissom, Roger Chaffee and Edward White -- die in a "flash fire" aboard Apollo 1 during a simulated launch at Cape Canaveral.

April 1967 -- Soviet cosmonaut Vladimir Mikhailovich Komarov is first man to die in a space mission when a parachute on his spaceship fails on re-entry and the ship crashes to Earth.

June 1971 -- Three Soviet cosmonauts die during re-entry after 24 days in an orbiting space laboratory, a record endurance flight at that time.

March 18, 1980 -- Fifty technicians die at Russia's Plesetsk Cosmodrome when a Vostok booster explodes while being fueled. The incident is reported only in 1989.

January 28, 1986 -- Seven U.S. astronauts including a schoolteacher die aboard the Challenger space shuttle 72 seconds after lift-off from Cape Canaveral.

April 18, 1986 -- A Titan missile believed to be carrying a military satellite explodes shortly after launch from the Vandenberg Air Force Base launch site in California.

May 3, 1986 -- A Delta rocket carrying a $57 million weather satellite explodes shortly after lift-off from Cape Canaveral.

February 22, 1990 -- Western Europe's 36th Ariane rocket, carrying two Japanese satellites, explodes less than two minutes after lift-off from Kourou, French Guiana.

September 7, 1990 -- Part of a U.S. Titan rocket falls from a crane and explodes at Edwards Air Force Base, sending flames 150 feet into the air and killing at least one person.

June 18, 1991 -- A 46-foot (15-meter) Prospector rocket carrying 10 science experiments for the U.S. space agency and several universities is destroyed after veering off course after launch from Cape Canaveral.

August 2, 1993 -- A Titan 4 rocket believed to be carrying an expensive military spy satellite explodes after lift-off from Vandenberg Air Force Base.

December 1, 1994 -- Western Europe's 70th Ariane rocket crashes into the Atlantic with the $150 million PanAmsat-3 telecoms satellite after launch from Kourou, French Guiana.

January 26, 1995 -- The Chinese-designed Long March 2E rocket carrying a telecommunications satellite explodes after blast-off from Xichang in southwest Sichuan province.

October 23, 1995 -- An unmanned Conestoga rocket whose satellite contains 14 scientific experiments explodes 45 seconds after blast-off from a NASA facility in Virginia.

February 15, 1996 -- A rocket carrying an Intelsat 708 communications satellite explodes soon after take-off from China's launch site in Xichang.

May 20, 1996 -- A Soyuz-U booster rocket carrying reconnaissance satellites explodes 49 seconds after lift-off from Russia's Baikonur Cosmodrome.

June 4, 1996 -- Europe's Ariane-5 rocket explodes 40 seconds into its maiden flight after blasting off from the European Space Agency launch center in Kourou, French Guiana.

June 20, 1996 -- A Soyuz-U rocket carrying reconnaissance satellites explodes after lift-off at Plesetsk Cosmodrome.

May 20, 1997 -- A Russian Zenit-2 booster rocket carrying a Cosmos military satellite explodes 48 seconds after launch.

August 12, 1998 -- The U.S. Titan rocket program is put on hold when a Titan 4A explodes soon after lift-off in one of history's most expensive space disasters. The cost of the rocket and its spy satellite cargo was put at more than $1 billion.

August 27, 1998 -- A Delta 3 rocket carrying a U.S. communications satellite bursts into a $225 million fireball, soon after blast-off from Cape Canaveral on its maiden flight.

September 10, 1998 -- A computer malfunction brings down a Ukrainian rocket carrying 12 commercial satellites, minutes after blast off from Baikonur.

July 5, 1999 -- A Russian Proton-K heavy booster rocket launched from Baikonur suffers a malfunction that detaches the engine and parts of the booster, causing them to crash onto the steppe. A 200-kg (440-lb) chunk falls into the courtyard of a private house. Kazakhstan briefly closes Baikonur in a row with Russia over clean-up costs and rent for the base.

September 23, 1999 -- NASA's $125 million Mars Climate Orbiter spacecraft breaks up as it enters the Martian atmosphere due to confusion among its constructors between metric and old English measuring units.

October 28, 1999 -- A Russian Proton rocket carrying a communications satellite crashes shortly after take-off from Baikonur.

December 3, 1999 -- NASA's Mars Polar lander loses contact with earth after reaching the Red Planet. The $165 million mission is a write-off.

August 15, 2002 -- NASA's $159 million Contour space probe, launched on July 3 and designed to chase comets, breaks up on leaving Earth's atmosphere.

December 11, 2002 -- An upgraded European Space Agency Ariane-5 rocket explodes soon after blast-off from Kourou, French Guiana, sending two satellites worth about $600 million plunging into the Atlantic Ocean.

February 1, 2003 -- The space shuttle Columbia, carrying seven astronauts including the first from Israel, breaks up over Texas on re-entering atmosphere at end of 16-day flight.

[m21man 0]

Ouch, I wouldn't want to have been a Russian rocket scientist .

Quote[/b] ]Actually, the Ariane is in comparison not so bad. Four lost boosters out of now several hundred used.

Definitely much more reliable than the shuttle, considering we've lost two shuttles.

[denoir 0]

Ouch, I wouldn't want to have been a Russian rocket scientist .

Yeah, liquid fuel's the cause. NASA uses solid fuel boosters. Both systems have their advantages - solid fuel boosters are much safer. The Russian rockets have to be filled up before launch and that's where they've had a couple of accidents, especially early on in their space program.

Quote[/b] ]

Definitely much more reliable than the shuttle, considering we've lost two shuttles.

Not quite comparable as the shuttles were reused many times. It's two lost out of over a hundred shuttle missions. That's not so bad.

[toadlife 3]

Quote[/b] ]I can't believe why anybody would use anything else for physics as it is really the standard for physicists and engineers everywhere, including the US.

Hopefully they learned from that mistake

I hope the scientists have, the regular American people still want to stick with the American (aka screwed up) system. Actually, I think the government here once tried to change road signs to metric. Of course, some people who were too lazy to learn metric (How hard can it be ) decided it would be a good idea to shoot the signs and knock them over. Your everyday slice of Americana .

I know the metric system, and I'm american. We are taught it in school you know.

It would be rather annoying for people like me who have grown up with inches/feet/miles/gallons/pounds/ ect, but it would only take one generation to get acclimated to it.

[bn880 5]

Well, to yapp some more on the metric/imperial stuff, construction is still often done on the imperial system in Canada. I have had several courses throw in imperial measurements as recently as a few months ago. You can bet I'm sitting there pretty pissed off.

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]I know the metric system, and I'm american. We are taught it in school you know.

It would be rather annoying for people like me who have grown up with inches/feet/miles/gallons/pounds/ ect, but it would only take one generation to get acclimated to it.

I was taught metric in science courses from teachers who hated the Imperial system .

[denoir 0]

It would be rather annoying for people like me who have grown up with inches/feet/miles/gallons/pounds/ ect, but it would only take one generation to get acclimated to it.

Plus, once you start using it you will have a much easier to learn system. As opposed to the imperial system, the metric system is interally consistent.

100 cm = 1 m

1000 m = 1 km

and the same for the rest

1000 g = 1 kg

...

While you have

1 feet = 12 inches

1 yard = 3 feet

1 mile = 1760 yards

.. and a completely different system for weight etc..

So apart from people being accustomed to the old units, there is really no reason why not to switch to the metric sytem. Your life will be easier and you'll crash fewer satellites into Mars

[Commander-598 0]

I don't know why, but I really don't see anything superior in the metric system, except measuring ammo is less confusing.

[denoir 0]

I don't know why, but I really don't see anything superior in the metric system, except measuring ammo is less confusing.

It's much more simple. Everything is a factor of 10 and the system is the same regardless if you measure distance, mass or any other physical quantity.

In physics it's absolutely essential or the various physical constants get completely messed up.

[denoir 0]

Details Emerge for Bush's space agenda

Quote[/b] ]

Although still officially shrouded in secrecy, the essential elements of the plan have been widely reported by news media including SPACE.com during recent weeks. The salient points include:

[*]Construction of the International Space Station will be finished using the space shuttle, after which the fleet will be retired about 2010. Science operations aboard the station will concentrate on keeping human's healthy in space.

 

[*]The Orbital Space Plane project will become the Crew Exploration Vehicle and focus on designing a new human-rated spacecraft that will ferry astronauts to and from Earth and serve as the baseline for hardware that will take crews back to the Moon early in the next decade.

 

[*]With the shuttle fleet retired, the new initiative will rely on boosters such as the Delta 4 and Atlas 5, as well as international vehicles such as the Soyuz and Ariane. There are no immediate plans to develop a new heavy-lifting rocket in the Saturn 5 class.

 

[*]The space nuclear power effort known as Project Prometheus will be folded into this effort, which will focus on enabling new spaceflight technology that can be tested between Earth and the Moon before committing crews to longer trips to Mars.

 

[*]To pay for all of this NASA's budget will be increased by some $800 million in fiscal year 2005 and then bumped up about 5 percent each year after that.

I'm very sceptical about this part:

Quote[/b] ]With the shuttle fleet retired, the new initiative will rely on boosters such as the Delta 4 and Atlas 5, as well as international vehicles such as the Soyuz and Ariane. There are no immediate plans to develop a new heavy-lifting rocket in the Saturn 5 class.

Saturn 5 was a monster rocket that could carry payloads of 110,000 kg into Low Earth Orbit (LEO). The heavy-lift version of the Ariane 5 can handle 12,000 kg. The only thing that can carry more than the Saturn 5 is the Russian Energia booster that could handle 200,000 kg. But AFIK that program isn't active any more and the last Energia flew years ago.

The biggest thing the US hs today is the new Atlas 5 booster that can take 20,000 kg into LEO. That's less than a fifth of what the Saturn-5's could.

[ralphwiggum 6]

I don't know why, but I really don't see anything superior in the metric system, except measuring ammo is less confusing.

i was thnking exact opposite. for me it's a lot otmemorize .223 and .308 than 5.56X (you know what number) and 7.something something.

i'm familiar with metric system, but one thing that would bug me would be distances. here in US, or in California that matter, 400 miles would be 640 kilometers. psychologically, 640 sounds bigger than 400...

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]The space nuclear power effort known as Project Prometheus will be folded into this effort, which will focus on enabling new spaceflight technology that can be tested between Earth and the Moon before committing crews to longer trips to Mars.

I´m not sure if I like the idea of a nuclear fission reactor beeing alpha and beta - tested over my head.

Radiation is not filtered that good by atmosphere when it comes to accidents up there.

Nuclear fission tech in space

[Acecombat 0]

Btw from where is Ariane launched?

I have seen videos of it being launched from some very tropical country i think it was French Guyana or someplace ... adn only the french were running the operation mainly (i wonder why is that) isnt this a joint european project?

Plus i was watching the doco and saw French Foreign legion troops guarding the perimeter they showed a bit of their hectic training too in the jungle , everyone seemed to be french except that they must have had some locals in the ranks too since they all werent white some were tanned local loking folks too (does french foreign legion hire anyone? ).

[ran 0]

Btw from where is Ariane launched?

I have seen videos of it being launched from some very tropical country i think it was French Guyana or someplace ... adn only the french were running the operation mainly (i wonder why is that) isnt this a joint european project?

Plus i was watching the doco and saw French Foreign legion troops guarding the perimeter they showed a bit of their hectic training too in the jungle , everyone seemed to be french except that they must have had some locals in the ranks too since they all werent white some were tanned local loking folks too (does french foreign legion hire anyone? ).

Arianne is launched from Kourou , French Guyana

our installations are there since well before the ESA efforts , we're just using what's already there and adding needed infrastructure when it has to be done, it's a good launching pad not far from equator (i doubt any other european country has pre-existing installations of that kind oversea)

Kourou is our business since it's on a french territory

on the topic of locals , the legion rarely hires locals for the job since with the years, a certain experience has been gained and accumulated in the guyanese jungle

the foreign legion is part ... foreign , might explain what you've seen, "not all white" .... we have south americans, hispanics, south east asians, africans and so on...

were these people uniformed ? did they have the legion's attributes ? if yes , then they're legionnaires

[Acecombat 0]

Well i dont know their specific uniforms but they were training in the jungle with other french troops so i can guess they were Legionaaires

My only question was if this was a joint European project shouldnt there be europeans there too except French only , the people they showed spoke french only so i was thinking maybe this is a french operation only.

[ran 0]

Centre Spatial guyanais

European agencies don't have to step on our territory except for ground contral and technical works on the launchpad, it's an european operation but i doubt any european country would like to maintain security forces in such a distant and inhospitable place as Guyanese jungle

we have pre-set installations and people already on spot , i don't see why other european countries should have to come in en masse

(by the way , there's an old punk song of the 80's called Cayenne by the band Parabellum about the Cayenne penal colony and what has led a man to this prison , nice song , really)

[Donnervogel 0]

Well i dont know their specific uniforms but they were training in the jungle with other french troops so i can guess they were Legionaaires

My only question was if this was a joint European project shouldnt there be europeans there too except French only , the people they showed spoke french only so i was thinking maybe this is a french operation only.

The Ariane rocket is a ESA (European Space Agency) project.

Kourou is french territory tough so it's protected by the french. But the scientists/engeneers/groud contol people there are from different european nations.

In short: The space programme is joint european but the launch pad is french ;)

[ran 0]

In short: The space programme is joint european but the launch pad is french ;)

ESA finances 2 thirds of it and french government finances the rest

[denoir 0]

Btw from where is Ariane launched?

Kourou , French Guyana. It beats having malfunctioning rockets dropping on us. Yay for colonialism!

Quote[/b] ]adn only the french were running the operation mainly (i wonder why is that) isnt this a joint european project?

The launch complex is French (although mostly financed by the European Space Agency (ESA) ) while the things getting sent up are joint European (ESA).

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]Yay for colonialism!

Hey! So people don't care when you start colonizing other countries?

[denoir 0]

Quote[/b] ]Yay for colonialism!

Hey! So people don't care when you start colonizing other countries?

No, no, we can't do it now. Now it's immoral. We did it back when it was quite alright. Finders keepers.

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]No, no, we can't do it now. Now it's immoral. We did it back when it was quite alright. Finders keepers.

In the immortal words of Christopher Colombus:

"Finders keepers, losers weepers."