Uk farmer who shot burglar freed

[InqWiper 0]

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It seems too many people want to inprison people to punnish them and make them suffer.

And in the very next paragraph:

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I think it would be better if you could just torture them in a mild way or something and release them after a few weeks

The point is not to make the suffer, the point is to change them. If it works this way its worth it.

[denoir 0]

Of course it would be very boring if all crime was abolished.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Of course it would be very boring if all crime was abolished.  

hehehehe

[FSPilot 0]

Well, they can't get them for breaking and entering.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

Shooting burglars Is not the way to protect your property; there are too many "what if" is the situation. Allowing the use of violent force (guns) is not appropriate either because they can be used or misused    The best way to my opinion would be non-lethal gadgets like pepper spray etc.

In the UK u can`t get pepper spays or stunguns and if  ur caught w ith one its more or less the same  if the police got  u with a  gun  

There's always one of hundreds of Home Alone Kevin's methods.

According to some weird Health And Safety Act paragraph, you are liable for any damage to visitors if potential trouble spots have not been properly pointed out with huge signs. If a certain obstruction was put up on purpose and without warning signs, you can get into a lot of trouble.

[theavonlady 2]

According to some weird Health And Safety Act paragraph, you are liable for any damage to visitors if potential trouble spots have not been properly pointed out with huge signs.

Does "visitors" include intruders and tresspassers?

[Tamme 0]

Shooting burglars Is not the way to protect your property; there are too many "what if" is the situation. Allowing the use of violent force (guns) is not appropriate either because they can be used or misused    The best way to my opinion would be non-lethal gadgets like pepper spray etc.

In the UK u can`t get pepper spays or stunguns and if  ur caught w ith one its more or less the same  if the police got  u with a  gun  

There's always one of hundreds of Home Alone Kevin's methods.

According to some weird Health And Safety Act paragraph, you are liable for any damage to visitors if potential trouble spots have not been properly pointed out with huge signs. If a certain obstruction was put up on purpose and without warning signs, you can get into a lot of trouble.  

That makes no sense...

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

According to some weird Health And Safety Act paragraph, you are liable for any damage to visitors if potential trouble spots have not been properly pointed out with huge signs.

Does "visitors" include intruders and tresspassers?

Any person on your property.

[DarkLight 0]

If you ask me, the ppl that come into your house to steal some money are just ppl who don't have enough money and who believe stealing is the only option. I don't see why the fuck you'd shoot such a person. Killing someone is NEVER a solution. Or at least in 99% of all cases...

I often hear ppl talking about how they carry a knife to school just in case someone wants to fight with them. So then i say, oh really, and what IF they WILL start fighting with you? Will you, a 16 year old boy, grab your knife and stab that other guy? Bullshit, using weapons is dangerous, cuz once you pull out your weapon the other guy has to go in defense and maybe he can handle his knife better than you...

Imagine this, i'm a burglar, you're a nice guy living in his house and you have got a gun. I sneak into your house and suddenly we meet eachother...

If i'd know that you'd be allowed to kill me, and you grabbed a gun, the first thing i'd try to do is trying to neutralize you.

Sure i don't WANT to kill you, but do i have a choice considering the fact that you can just blast my brains out?!

The moment you pull your gun i know you can kill me any second, so basically all i want to do is take you down before you take me down...

Don't you see how stupid this is? If you're allowed to use violence against a burglar all the results it will have is that burglars will be more dangerous.

Of course there's also the professional criminals, shit, we even have them in good ol' Belgium. There's no way you can defend against these guys, they don't sneak into your house and steal something. They try to find the ppl living inside the house, they're not afraid of a confrontation.

Pretty often they ask for car keys and that kinda stuff, i think it's called homejacking...

Trying to shoot these guys probable is THE worst thing you can do, basically they can get pretty much every gun they want to have. So they already have better weapons, next they're always with more than one guy.

The chance that you'll be able to stop all of them is very small, especially considering the fact that some of these guys really don't care about the value of life.

And what if you'll be able to shoot all of them, you'll have killed several ppl, i know i'd have a hard time living with that fact, don't say you don't, cuz that's total bullshit...

I dunno about this, but if i was a boss of a huge organisation and you'd shoot 3 of my men i sure as hell would want to see your brains flying all over the place. Maybe that's another risk you're taking, the risk of someone revenging the death of those "burglars"...

Don't use a fucking weapon, use your brains...

[Tamme 0]

Just use the same ROE as the cops do. Should work fine.

[theavonlady 2]

We were talking about Swedish prisons a few pages back. They're in the news.

[Tamme 0]

We were talking about Swedish prisons a few pages back. They're in the news.

That was in some newspaper in here couple of days ago. Can't you swedes treat war criminals correctly? They should send the bitch somewhere bad (not here, our prisons are tougher than swedish, but not tough enough)

[GoOB 0]

Our prisons are so cushy that people from poor countries come here, commit a crime then hope that they can stay in Swedish prison. Makes sense to basically reward a crime with a five year stay in a luxurious resting home for criminals. Needless to say I do not promote treating criminals no matter how grave their crime was like animals. I just feel that if you have prisons you shouldn't run it like a luxury hotel.

[GoOB 0]

And I need to add this aswell. I dont understand what the author of that article sees wrong in every prisoner having access to TV and Radio. You can't throw a prisoner out of scociety denying them news and other forms of media. These prisoners are meant to be sent out into real life sooner or later. And how easy is it to get adjusted to scociety when you don't know what has happened for the last five or so years?

[theavonlady 2]

The objection is to private TVs and radios. So is horseback riding, massages and b'day cakes. Quite a bit luxurious for common criminals, let alone someone like this.

[denoir 0]

The objection is to private TVs and radios. So is horseback riding, massages and b'day cakes. Quite a bit luxurious for common criminals, let alone someone like this.

Kind of gives new meaning to "let the punishment fit the crime"  

No but really, she's 73 years old. As the length of the punisment does not conform to Swedish rules, she'll be locked up for the rest of her life. It might be comfy, but it's still a prison. What would be gained by throwing her into some medieval dungeon?

[Tex -USMC- 0]

No but really, she's 73 years old. As the length of the punisment does not conform to Swedish rules, she'll be locked up for the rest of her life. It might be comfy, but it's still a prison.

That'll teach her.

[denoir 0]

Let's just say that the probability of her becoming a repeat offender is very small. The only reason to give her a bad time would be revenge and in civilized society we don't do that.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Let's just say that the probability of her becoming a repeat offender is very small. The only reason to give her a bad time would be revenge and in civilized society we don't do that.

You mean we aren't supposed to do that.

[GoOB 0]

I still see no objection in that. Aslong as the channels do not include certain channels that air certain movies after twelve o'clock (TV1000 and Canal+ for those living in Sweden)

And these channels are unfortunatley availible to most prisoners (rapists included) And last time I checked up Kumla prisons policy the prisoners have to rent a TV and some channels cost extra. This expense is coverd for by the goverment and the prison board of directors (called "daily allowance") Wich the prisoners can spend at will at either renting a TV and a video player and renting video tapes. Also the prisoners have a chance to get an education whilst in prison (if they behave well) and also have the oppurtunity to work to reccieve extra money to spend on articles availible for rent (and other articles availible for purchase in the prison) or just save the money up to get a decent start when they get released. And in some minimun security prisons some very behaving inmates assist the guards (or caretakers) in menial tasks like serving the food and taking the prisoners for a walk. And in Kumla you also pay for your own birthday party/cake, I don't know about this institution though.

Overall the Swedish prison system is very good, but it has it's downsides too. Being all too cushy isn't good. But serving prisoners oat-meal that has a few gallons of water in it to make the ends meet isn't right either.

[GoOB 0]

@ Aug. 04 2003,15:28)]

Let's just say that the probability of her becoming a repeat offender is very small. The only reason to give her a bad time would be revenge and in civilized society we don't do that.

You mean we aren't supposed to do that.

Excuse me, could you clarify that a wee bit? I didn't quite understand

[Shashman 0]

I say force her to do all sorts of sports like football (real football not American football    ) rugby, karate...She'll soon either end up one fit warcriminal granny or one burried warcriminal granny    Most probably the latter  

[denoir 0]

@ Aug. 04 2003,15:28)]

Let's just say that the probability of her becoming a repeat offender is very small. The only reason to give her a bad time would be revenge and in civilized society we don't do that.

You mean we aren't supposed to do that.

It's a difficult issue. What is the point of a punsihment? Is it educational or is it to make the criminal face consequences of his action? If it is just about stopping the criminal from repeating his violations of the law, then where is individual accountability? On the other hand if it is about payback, an eye for an eye so to speak, then how are we better than the criminal?

[Tex -USMC- 0]

@ Aug. 04 2003,15:28)]

Let's just say that the probability of her becoming a repeat offender is very small. The only reason to give her a bad time would be revenge and in civilized society we don't do that.

You mean we aren't supposed to do that.

It's a difficult issue. What is the point of a punsihment? Is it educational or is it to make the criminal face consequences of his action? If it is just about stopping the criminal from repeating his violations of the law, then where is individual accountability? On the other hand if it is about payback, an eye for an eye so to speak, then how are we better than the criminal?

We didn't initiate the sequence. By committing the crime, the criminal has expressly requested punishment in kind.

[denoir 0]

This expense is coverd for by the goverment and the prison board of directors (called "daily allowance") Wich the prisoners can spend at will at either renting a TV and a video player and renting video tapes. Also the prisoners have a chance to get an education whilst in prison (if they behave well) and also have the oppurtunity to work to reccieve extra money to spend on articles availible for rent (and other articles availible for purchase in the prison) or just save the money up to get a decent start when they get released.

I think that our American friends might find it a bit surprising that our prisoners actually get paid for their time in prison.

I don't know. In a perfect society with infinite resources, I would have no problem with it. It does however become a bit absurd when convicted criminals get better food than kids in school.