If its immoral to kill, what justifies war?

[murkyfox 0]

I just wondered if its immoral to kill, what would justify any of you going to war. I know each man has his own justifications for going to war. I just hope to hear some from a few real soldiers here. Expect no arguments from me or anyone else I hope. I just wanted to hear your thoughts.

[denoir 0]

From an abstract perspecitve, 'the greater good'. From a more practical perspecitve that you trust your country. From a very practical perspecitive that you have to follow orders.

Defining a universal morality is a bit tricky, if not impossible. Basically you can't set your own rules of conduct, you have to follow the ones of your society. If your society says that you have to kill, then you have to follow.

Fortunately most countries have adopted the Geneva conventions which in a way sets a universal code of conduct.

Those are the best answers that I can give. It's a complex issue.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

Self defence? If a (neighbouring) country invades your country and wants to take away your ideals, your language, your religion, your way of life.

[Longinius 1]

I dont consider the act of killing in itself to be immoral. Its the reason for killing that may or may not be immoral IMHO.

[Bernadotte 0]

If a (neighbouring) country invades your country and wants to take away your ideals, your language, your religion, your way of life.

Ideals?  Language?  Religion?  Way of life?

When has all that happened since the US took Texas from Mexico?

[FSPilot 0]

please dont turn this into another anti-US thread

anyway I'd have to look at a war on a case by case basis to tell you if they were moral or not.

[pong2cs 0]

If you ask me, you have the right to kill if the alternative means depriving you of your freedom.

Logically, this doesn't apply to villains.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

If a (neighbouring) country invades your country and wants to take away your ideals, your language, your religion, your way of life.

Ideals?  Language?  Religion?  Way of life?

When has all that happened since the US took Texas from Mexico?

WTF are you going on about??

[Guest]

I think this is a "How do you feel about killing someone from a soldier's perspective?" kinda thread, not a "Philosophy of Killing and Death: Please Discuss" thread, if you read the first post.

[Pukko 0]

If most people, especially the close ones, had a strong consensus that the enemy is evil, I would be forced to go to war, or face the consequenses; being a solitary betrayer (and possibly removing the 'problem of society' that I now would constitute by suicide).

Its also known as alienation, or directed stereotyping. I have followed the US development after 9/11 quite closely from this perspective (and less intensively, and more global, the last ~15 years), and can only feel depressed over how easy it 'still today' is to do this. Our modern western freedom in general only goes that far. The 'reality' is constantly reconstructured by the ones who have the power to define it (to a very large extent scientists) through 'rationality'. Politicians and media uses the present rationality (reality) to their liking, and 'the people' (everone - scientists, politicians & media themselves,  you & me) are forced to believe in them. Our freedom (also of speach) do not reach beyond the current rationality.

But I am very sure that the main social change we are going through right now, is a change from rational thinking towards what could be called 'critical thinking'. And I am also very thankful towards the Bush & Blair administrations for probably hurrying up this development alot, since their rational claims have been some of the most pathetic ever; and with their now likely fall, the common belief in rationality gets undermined big time.

So there, thats was also a bloody exposition of a poststructuralist perspective    

But since I am a aricraft mechanic (primary watching pornomovies in some forest, protected from any direct enemy contact by several layers of protection units ) in the Swedish, very much only defensive, military - I probably would not object very much, should Sweden be invaded. Under the condition that I have no reason to believe that the war could have been avoided by more openminded politicians etc...

ps. to fit in better in this thread you could to some extent exchange 'rationality' and 'reality' with 'moral' if you want. And what I wrote was not 'anti American'. USA in later times is just a good example of belief in 'rationality' - which is a very varying global phenomenon  

[Milkman 1]

If a (neighbouring) country invades your country and wants to take away your ideals, your language, your religion, your way of life.

Ideals?  Language?  Religion?  Way of life?

When has all that happened since the US took Texas from Mexico?

The U.S.A did not take Texas from Mexico. Apparently you need some more education on the subject.

We revolted and won our independence from Mexico in 1836. We were a republic for about a decade untill we annexed freely to the United States in 1845. The Mexicans still didn't like us (texas) and refused to reconize our independence. They began a border dispute with us. Now that we were part of America, the American Army gladfully assisted in ending the dispute.

[Bernadotte 0]

If a (neighbouring) country invades your country and wants to take away your ideals, your language, your religion, your way of life.

Ideals?  Language?  Religion?  Way of life?

When has all that happened since the US took Texas from Mexico?

WTF are you going on about??

Umm... Since you ask so kindly I'll try to re-word the question in a way that even you might understand:

<span style='font-size:9pt;line-height:100%'>When has a nation tried to take away the ideals, language, religion and way of life of its neighbour since the US took Texas from Mexico (1836)?</span>

I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but plenty of wars since then have been "justified" that don't meet all of these criteria.

[bn880 5]

Is it just me or are some moderators getting a little rude on us.

When is starting a war justified? Now that's a good question, don't know how to explain what I think at the moment. But basically in defense, which would make it in defense of your friends, since you can't start a war for defense.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

Quote[/b] ]Umm... Since you ask so kindly I'll try to re-word the question in a way that even you might understand:

If you had put it into a grammatically correct sentence the first time round, I wouldn't have had any trouble whatsoever to understand it. Do not try to belittle me like that, it is not my fault if you can not type out a proper sentence.

Quote[/b] ]I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but plenty of wars since then have been "justified" that don't meet all of these criteria.

Apart from the fact that it was shown how your ideas regarding Texas are wrong anyway, I never said that a war needs to be justified by meeting ALL of the criteria. Even meeting just one of them is enough.

The key point is that another country is invading yours for whatever reason, under such a circumstance war is justified and you do not need a politician to tell you that.

If you would live in a country that was overrun by the Nazis, then you would understand this better.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

Is it just me or are some moderators getting a little rude on us.  

Excuse me, I am trying to talk about A and B, then dude comes along and talks to me about XYZ, of course I will be completely lost

Sorry if it sounded aggressive, but I had no idea what the hell he was going on about until he rephrased his question.

How he expects me to know/care about the history of Texas is beyond me

[Bernadotte 0]

The U.S.A did not take Texas from Mexico. Apparently you need some more education on the subject.

We revolted and won our independence from Mexico in 1836. We were a republic for about a decade untill we annexed freely to the United States in 1845. The Mexicans still didn't like us (texas) and refused to reconize our independence. They began a border dispute with us. Now that we were part of America, the American Army gladfully assisted in ending the dispute.

I hope you'll forgive me for thinking that Sam Houston, James C. Neill, William Travis, Robert White, William R. Carey, Jim Bowie, along with William Blazeby with his New Orleans Greys and David Crockett with his Tennessee Mounted Volunteers were Americans and not Mexicans.

Or are you going to tell me that they were Texans, even though no such nation existed yet?

Quote[/b] ]Colonel William Travis arrived in San Antonio on February 2 1836, with a small cavalry, raising the number of Alamo defenders to about 130.  The Mexican army was on the outskirts of town as Travis renewed his pleas for help.  In a February 24 letter, he wrote: "To the People of Texas and All Americans in the World.... I shall never surrender or retreat.... Victory or Death!".

[Renagade 0]

Quote[/b] ]If its immoral to kill, what justifies war?

Anything ii say does and this week its for fun

[Hit_Sqd_Maximus 0]

The U.S.A did not take Texas from Mexico. Apparently you need some more education on the subject.

We revolted and won our independence from Mexico in 1836. We were a republic for about a decade untill we annexed freely to the United States in 1845. The Mexicans still didn't like us (texas) and refused to reconize our independence. They began a border dispute with us. Now that we were part of America, the American Army gladfully assisted in ending the dispute.

I hope you'll forgive me for thinking that Sam Houston, James C. Neill, William Travis, Robert White, William R. Carey, Jim Bowie, along with William Blazeby with his New Orleans Greys and David Crockett with his Tennessee Mounted Volunteers were Americans and not Mexicans.

Or are you going to tell me that they were Texans, even though no such nation existed yet?

Quote[/b] ]Colonel William Travis arrived in San Antonio on February 2 1836, with a small cavalry, raising the number of Alamo defenders to about 130.  The Mexican army was on the outskirts of town as Travis renewed his pleas for help.  In a February 24 letter, he wrote: "To the People of Texas and All Americans in the World.... I shall never surrender or retreat.... Victory or Death!".

What about the Tejanos... were they american?