The Iraq Thread 2

[miles teg 1]

I agree about Al-Jazeera and CNN. Al-Jeezera, while biased, is I still think critically important to understanding the region because, as you said, they show a way of thinking that is very foreign to Europeans and Americans. Americans sadly, don't deal with such alternative modes of thinking very well.

But the US government seriously needs to develop this skill in hurry if America is to avoid even worse conflict and terrorist attacks in the future. At least that is my opinion.

That doesn't mean giving in to terrorism. It only means to understand why they believe the way they do and then working on how to alter their perceptions in manner that is (if possible) not violent, and is non-oppressive. In other words, in a manner where the people of the Middle East don't get screwed as a whole and where instead unity, cooperation, and friendship is emphasized hence the reason why I strongly believe that the US government needs to engage Islam (in all its forms) in a very serious and open-minded manner if we are to resolve our differences in peaceful manner.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[ralphwiggum 6]

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/12/19/sprj.irq.kay.reut/index.html

Quote[/b] ]WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- In a potential setback to the so far fruitless hunt for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, the head of the U.S. search team, David Kay, told administration officials he is considering leaving the job as early as next month, U.S. officials said.

Though Kay cited family obligations, officials described the former U.N. nuclear weapons inspector as frustrated -- no banned weapons have been found despite months of searching and some of Kay's staff have been diverted to helping combat Iraqi insurgents.

Kay and his team were sent to Iraq to locate the weapons that were cited by President George W. Bush and his top advisers as the main justification for invading.

An announcement could come as early as next week, one official said.

Officials said Kay, who is directing the weapons search as an adviser to the CIA, could step down before his Iraq Survey Group issues its next interim report slated for February.

<snip>

Officials said Kay was also unhappy that some members of his team were shifted to the counter-insurgency front. "So he doesn't have all of the assets he would like to have. Nobody does," the U.S. official said.

from the same article.

Quote[/b] ]In an interview earlier this week with ABC News, Bush brushed aside questions about whether Iraq had possessed banned weapons -- as his administration asserted before the war to oust Iraqi President Saddam Hussein, who was captured on Saturday -- or was merely pursuing weapons programs.

"So what's the difference?" Bush responded.

http://www.cnn.com/2003....ex.html

Quote[/b] ]AMMAN, Jordan (CNN) -- Raghad Hussein, the eldest daughter of Saddam Hussein, says if her father is to be tried, it should be before an international court, and claims he had been drugged on the day he was captured.

In her first on-camera interview since the former Iraqi leader was captured, Raghad told CNN on Thursday she disagrees with plans to try Saddam before an Iraqi court.

"Of course I don't believe he'll receive a fair trial because it will be conducted by an unrecognized party," she said. "The interim government is not recognized internationally, nor in the Arab world. It has not been recognized by anyone, so by what right will the trial proceed?

"I want a fair trial under international supervision, and we have a right as his daughters to appoint an attorney to defend him."

She also alleged that her father, as seen in videotape shot after U.S. forces found him hiding near Tikrit, had been drugged. Raghad said the man shown on television was not the father she knew.

"Anyone with insight could tell from the first instance that my father was not fully conscious," she said. "As a daughter, I told them from the start, my father is drugged. I am 100 percent convinced."

"My personal expectation is that one of the people he relied on must have put something in his food, or that there is a military technique of some sort or a gas that can drug a person. Because I know my father and he would never surrender."

Raghad said she initially learned of her father's capture from television news coverage that began as she was watching a soap opera.

She watched for several hours in disbelief, she said, waiting for someone to tell her the news was not true.

When she finally accepted the truth, Raghad said, she sat down on the floor and cried.

"The effect of the TV shots were horrific," she said of the first images that showed her father looking unkempt and bewildered.

"It was really horrific, painful and very cruel, it wounded me very deeply."

http://www.cnn.com/2003....ex.html

Quote[/b] ]CAIRO, Egypt (AP) -- Former Iraqi Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz has started calling his youngest son -- named Saddam after Iraq's ousted leader -- by the name Zuhair instead, according to letters obtained by the London-based Arabic daily Asharq Al-Awsat.

and the war is still going on....

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/World/Iraq_infiltrators_031218.html

Quote[/b] ]Dec. 18— Agents for deposed Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein have penetrated the U.S. command in Iraq, ABCNEWS has learned. As a result, they have the potential to undermine U.S. authority.

Among the documents found in Saddam's briefcase when he was captured last weekend was a list of names of Iraqis who have been working with the United States — either in the Iraqi security forces or the Coalition Provisional Authority — and are feeding information to the insurgents, a U.S. official told ABCNEWS.

"We were badly infiltrated," said the official, adding that finding the list of names is a "gold mine."

[ran 0]

a french lawyer is proposing is service to Tariq Haziz and Saddam , i'll try to find a link to the story later , right now i'm busy with the marines assault pack

[Apollo 0]

Basicly ,what we need for a more peacefull world is less violence and more dialoge.Not that we can't be pragmatic on certain issue's ,but it's clear that much of the international problem's that the U.S faces today is to an extent the result of their Post-cold war foreign policy's.

I can agree on most of miles Teq's comment's ,if he happens to be from the U.S.A then i'm impressed by the position that he takes on these issue's ,afterall after 9/11 we saw an almost witchhunt from the pro-war campt towards the anti-war camp.

The U.S has a social culture where Nationalism and patriotism are important value's ,it's frighting how easy these sentiment's can be exploited.Hence the value of efficient propaganda is significant in the U.S .More than 90% of the people in The U.S ,just on the start of the Iraq ,supported the U.S in this war.

I think that had more to do with patriotism rather than actual pro-war feeling's.It was not a matter of being pro or against ,it was suposedly a matter of supporting the boys that went to war.

Maybe war on itself is a key element of the American social culture ,arguably part of the Nationalism we have today in the U.S has it's fundament's in the the supreme millitary power of the U.S .

Quote[/b] ]a french lawyer is proposing is service to Tariq Haziz and Saddam

It's a publicity event already ,thought so.  

Now were going to see a hell of a lot Saddam merchandising.I saw Saddam being hanged at xxx spot t-shirt's ,keep youre little Saddam death tamagoshi ,Chemical Ali parfum ,Mahmud Al-sajaf radio's and afcourse Saddam VS Bush Beyblade's ,wich all can be won at the life integral hanging by sms 6669 with the words "add a rope".

Hmmm ,maybe i should stop with giving away these million-dollar idea's.

I mean just look how much coverage the Iraw war had in the U.S ,the trial on Saddam will be a media circus.

[miles teg 1]

Yup I'm a yank, and I'm ex-US Army Reserve also as well (my old unit just got deployed to Iraq).  But I also was born in Iran,  have lived in Saudi Arabia and Indonesia (the largest Islamic country population-wise), and have travelled in Egypt and Bahrain.  So I'm no stranger to the region.

My experiences in these countries also led to my choice of the Middle East as my area of study in my masters degree in cultural anthropology (applied anthropology/conflict anthropology)... but oddly enough I also was inspired to do so by the science-fiction novel "Heretics of Dune", part of the "Dune" series by Frank Herbert.  Coincidentaly that series of novels has much in common with what is going on in Iraq including eerie simularities (Arrakis=Iraq, Emperor Shaddam=Saddam, Spice (melange)=oil, Fremen=Islamic Jihadists, ect...)  

At any rate, I've been lucky enough to have travelled a good bit around the world growing up which no doubt has allowed me to see the world through many perspectives.    

But despite what the media in Europe shows about America, there are still a good portion of the population here in America who are fairly liberal (as in open minded and thinking for themselves) and who are truly trying to understand this whole war on terror thing from different viewpoints and see the problems for what they truly are rather then the black and white "good vs. evil" mentality that many conservatives here in America have.

 

I'm just hoping that in the next election we get a liberal in office  who will try a different creative strategies in this war on terror.  

But with I doubt it... Bush is racking up "perceived victories" such as the capture of Saddam (not the reason why we invaded but it is now in the minds of the American public) and just today the statement by Wacky Khaddaffi of Libya that Libya indeed had WMD's and is now going to give them up.  Bush interpupted the TV programs today to make a speech claiming this as a great victory in the war on terror (in other words a great victory for him) and that basically that it was  the invasion of Iraq that caused Khaddaffi to change his mind regarding his WMD's.   Personally I believe Khaddaffi was well on his way to giving them up purely for economic reasons.  He's been a good boy ever since the last US bombing raid many many years ago where we killed his daughter in law and nearly killed him.   What has not been stated in the media is what Khaddaffi is getting out of this as he has been involved in very intense negotiations with American and British diplomats and arms inspectors before this announcement.  I suspect he's going to get some nice goodies for helping Bush and Blair.  

What is also not stated in the media is that while Khaddaffi has been a good politician in international affairs in recent history (he's done some good things), he is still a tyrant responsible for horrific human rights abuses and crimes against humanity in his oppression of political opposition and religious groups within Libya.

But as long as he plays nice with the US and Britain, you probably won't hear much about that in the Western press.

One of my professors is well known Libyan Middle East scholar here in the United States (who's spoken before the UN and is often on news programs here in the US).  He's a political refugee who can not go back to Libya because he has a price on his head and would be quickly arrested and executed.

But just like the Cold War, my country looks the other way at the attrocities of tyrants as long as they support our foreign policy.

So right now Bush's ratings are very high with the majority of the American public as they believe his war on terror is working and is now paying off.   But we'll see if that holds up come election-time.  

For ol' Colonel Khaddaffi, his WMD program is actually paying off handsomely now that he's cashing it in. That may have been his strategy all along.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[Apollo 0]

Interresting life you got their ,youre more a Mondial person than an American.

Ah ,believe me Europe is in hunger for a better U.S president that Bush ,atleast on the diplomatic level.Eventually ,the U.S is of great importance to Europe and a good U.S president can really benifit both sides.Just think of the cost of the Iraq war ,under normal circumstances an X% of that money would have been European imports.The poor state of the U.S economy effects us here at the other end of the ocean.

I think that is Bush his biggest shortcomming ,he's really terrible on the diplomatic level.Think of the Axis of Evil speech ,now that was a dumb thing to do ,and really unfit to for a man of his position.And the way the U.S played in the UN to try to get UN support for the war was just plain silly ,with in some cases sheer presumtion's ,un-solid proof ,made up confessions and even a paper made by a student!

The amount of diplomatic prestige the U.S lost there was immense ,especially since they declared war on Iraq unnilateraly later on.Put the UN and the U.S in it's historical perspective and the position that the U.S played within this ,and youle understand that this situation can almost be compared to the Invasion of Etheopia by Italy in the interbellum wich killed the League of Nations ,almost worse.  

The media in Europe isn't that bad.In any way ,i know there are a lot of Libirals in the U.S ,and actually really am not Anti America.Like i have said once before ,America is a Western country embracing many moral value's like freedom (well deminished under the Bush goverment) ,democracy etc. .It's also in many aspect's a key partner of Europe and in comparison to the rest of the world very similar in culture.

I am one of those European's that want to build bridge's with the American's ,not blow them up.

[denoir 0]

But despite what the media in Europe shows about America, there are still a good portion of the population here in America who are fairly liberal (as in open minded and thinking for themselves) and who are truly trying to understand this whole war on terror thing from different viewpoints and see the problems for what they truly are rather then the black and white "good vs. evil" mentality that many conservatives here in America have.

 

Yeah, I think that most people here know that. It's just that the more obnoxious people tend to be the loudest. From a European point of view, the Republican party is really a caricature. They really highlight all bad things from a liberal point of view. Now I'm sure that it's a pretty rough and inaccurate picture, but media outlets, such as FOX news and politicians like Bush certainly reinforce that picture.

Now, you shouldn't over-idealize Europe either. We have a good share of our own morons. Politicians like Berlusconi make Bush look good in comparison.

Quote[/b] ]I'm just hoping that in the next election we get a liberal in office  who will try a different creative strategies in this war on terror.  

I'll drink to that

Quote[/b] ]

He's been a good boy ever since the last US bombing raid many many years ago where we killed his daughter in law and nearly killed him.   What has not been stated in the media is what Khaddaffi is getting out of this as he has been involved in very intense negotiations with American and British diplomats and arms inspectors before this announcement.  I suspect he's going to get some nice goodies for helping Bush and Blair.  

Yeah, he's been on his best behaviour the last years. Not so long ago he paid the victims of the Lockerbie bombing etc He has also cooperated by giving out information on terroist suspects. So obviously this is another step in the campaign of getting Lybia to rejoin the international community.

What I find most humorous is how Blair and Bush called Khaddaffi's statement "courageous" and "good news" and "welcome". When Saddam said the exactly the same things then he was called a lier. Now tell me, why should we trust a mr. Khaddaffi over a mr. Hussein - both dictators with a very bad rap sheet with regards to the international community. Actually Khaddaffi has much more ties to terrorism than Saddam ever had..

[TexMex Leprechaun 0]

Quote[/b] ]I'm just hoping that in the next election we get a liberal in office who will try a different creative strategies in this war on terror.

Yea thats just what we need, a liberal pansy who is to afraid to get the job done. No, I hope Bush gets voted back in, he may not be the best ever, but is a million times better than anybody else on the liberal side. If you think the War in Iraq is going bad now, you would really think so if we get one of the left wing radicals that are running for office. I just hope somebody like Hillary or Al Sharpton never make it, becuase then its time to find a new country. Whats sad is, where would I move to?

[EiZei 0]

Quote[/b] ]I'm just hoping that in the next election we get a liberal in office who will try a different creative strategies in this war on terror.

Yea thats just what we need, a liberal pansy who is to afraid to get the job done. No, I hope Bush gets voted back in, he may not be the best ever, but is a million times better than anybody else on the liberal side. If you think the War in Iraq is going bad now, you would really think so if we get one of the left wing radicals that are running for office. I just hope somebody like Hillary or Al Sharpton never make it, becuase then its time to find a new country. Whats sad is, where would I move to?

Hardly "left radicals" by non-US standards, comrade.

And anyways, weren't Clark and Dean the most likely democrat candidates?

[bn880 5]

IMHO CNN is as unobjective as Al-Jazeera. Both news services are very biased when it comes to critical news.On top of that Al-Jazeera shows opinions that are very strange for most Europeans and even more strange for Americans due to different ways of thinking.

I would only agree with Al Jazeera statement on basis of different culture and thinking, not bias. If AL Jazeera is basically biased, then so is any other media in the west east and every where. For example the way all western media calls some attacks terrorism, attackers terrorists, etc. etc. that is also bias. And how about our Canadian media showing almost all bush speeches here live, but none from Jordan, Kuwait, Iran etc. Bias... well that's what Al Jazeera is blamed for, not showing live speeches of Bush any more, but showing ones from Arab nations.

Double standards on behalf of all of us, we expect too much of a culture twist on behalf of Al J.

So yes, Al Jazeera is as biased as all news sources in most occations.

Here is a show on Al Jazeera itself http://info.vpro.nl/info....0708971

EDIT: How do you think EU or US media would fair if systematically there were wars in the EU where for example China was taking over and leaving highways of death and ruins...

[Apollo 0]

In any case ,wether or not Al-Jazeera is very biased or not ,it seems to be not very much liked in the U.S .Witnes of that was the website that good online ,and almost instantly offline due to hackers at the start of the Iraq war.And then their were the 2 "accidental" bombing's of Al-Jazeera news station's by the U.S air force ,1 in Iraq and 1 in Afhanistan.Heck at the start of both the Afhanistan war and the iraq war Al-Jazeera even have their newsstation coordinates to the U.S millitary to prevent it of getting bombed.In the specific case of the Station in Afhanistan ,mind you this building was sitting right between a station of the BBC and one of an American Station ,yet only the Al-Jazeera building got hit.

Oh and then their was this Al-jazeera reported housed in the Bagdad hotel with the entrance of U.S troops and got shelled by a tank in his hotel room.Real smooth.

[bn880 5]

Yes exactly, I personally will always remember what you mentioned when I think of the US achievements... including the hitting of cameras, some reporters, especially the Palestine hotel SABOT shot.

[Apollo 0]

Quote[/b] ]Yes exactly, I personally will always remember what you mentioned when I think of the US achievements... including the hitting of cameras, some reporters, especially the Palestine hotel SABOT shot.

Euh ,did i offend you there? Sure the U.S has some other greater achievement's ,this are just on topic remarks.Anyway ,it was the Palestine hotel indeed where that Sabot incident happend.Not really a good PR stunt that one.I forgot to mention that since march 2003 Al-jazeera was banned from Nasdaq and the NYSE due to "security" reasons.

[bn880 5]

No you did not offend me... I just can't stand what happened in the mid east lately, it's sickening.

[Apollo 0]

Quote[/b] ]ow, you shouldn't over-idealize Europe either. We have a good share of our own morons. Politicians like Berlusconi make Bush look good in comparison.

Just as a sidenote ,man am i looking foreward to the upcomming italian Pm ellection's.It will be one heck of a fight.Berlusconi VS Prodi.Now Prodi isn't what you can call a lightweight ,and the E.U would definatly prefer Prodi above berlusconi. (logicly)

And Berlusconi's power and support just got a serius blow with president Champi breaking down on his medialaw.Poll's in Italy are showing that gruadualy Berlusconi is losing support ,most of all from his key supporters: the common housewife.(must have something to do with the show's on Rai ,i don't think the Italian's want a brain dead media like you have in many latin country's)

[denoir 0]

During the actual war I used to watch  Al-Jazeera's web-feed. It wasn't translated so I didn't understand a word they were saying. What I did see was that they gave interviews from both sides. You had some US general talking and then some Iraqi official etc

Basically it looked rather balanced to me.

Then they got their English subtitles up. Sure, they were giving reports from both sides but they were also editorializing beyond belief. Not uncommon were phrases like "the zionist infidels were killed by the hand of the brave Iraqi people" etc

Their bias is way way beyond CNN and even way beyond FOXNews.

But, I think that they absolutely should have the right to free speech and most certainly that they should not get bombed.

[EiZei 0]

I dont think they are THAT much ahead of fox..

Taken from foxnews.com:

Quote[/b] ]

Rebuilding Iraq — Should the U.S. bury the hatchet and let "the axis of weasels" in on the action?

[Apollo 0]

Apart from wether Al-Jazeera is biased of not ,one must recognize that it has big coverage on the muslim world and that by this way footage and news reached the Western world that otherwise may not have got there.During the Iraq war ,a lot of the Newsstation's in the Western world used for a part footage of Al-Jazeera.

So it has it's value ,by the ammount of Inside Muslim information it provide's.

[denoir 0]

Quote[/b] ]I dont think they are THAT much ahead of fox..

Yeah, you're probably right. They do get really carried away from time to time. I posted a while ago this openly racist article published on FOX as an example of what kind of journalism they're into.

[Apollo 0]

Quote[/b] ]Yeah, you're probably right. They do get really carried away from time to time. I posted a while ago this openly racist article published on FOX as an example of what kind of journalism they're into.

OWW that link is bad.

France uncivilized? Fox should do some introspectionism.(sp?)

[ran 0]

watch the fox headlines ...... Julia Gorin may appear ..... she's going to reach new heights in her writing style

when you read that kind of piss-poor hate concentrate , you tell yourself that the next american you'll meet in the street will spend the worst 10 minutes of his life ..... since we're so barbaric ..... let's support our reputation .....

i know this is not the opinion of most of the americans out there , but when you see that kind of show of stupidity , xenophobism and racism in a national media , you really tell yourself your government should nuke the united states if you see what i mean ......

Julia Gorin isn't known for soft articles anyway ......

[ran 0]

Quote[/b] ]Wednesday, August 27, 2003GOOGLE on Julia Gorin

The first google link turns up this .

I can't really read through this without crying for all of humanity. I'll pick little bits out that I just can't overlook.

PARDON, They're French

"Savages naturally gravitate toward savages. And they facilitate savagery everywhere while impeding nations that seek to minimize it."

Apparently she's implying the French are "savages" (not unlike a certain unemployed MSNBC weekend talk show host), and they stand in the way of the US getting rid of the world's remaining "savagery". Examples:

"france's defiant feting and support of brutal regimes in the midst of the feasibility of their removal, as in Zimbabwe, Sudan and Iraq"

"helping Iraqi officials escape to Cuba, according to a Geostrategy-Direct intelligence brief?"

"A kinship it apparently also felt for Libya, when in 1986 the french government wouldn't let our F-111 planes cross their air space to retaliate for Libya's role in a Berlin disco attack. "

[nevermind the fact that it's a straight shot from Germany to Libya in terms of airspace..why would the US need to fly out of the way to go over France? Oh that's right, the Swiss and Austrians are neutral and don't allow nations to utilize their ground or airspace as a conduit for attacks...why not chastize them as well? Or perhaps the actual case is that France wanted to remain neutral as well. Please think about what you are going to excrete from your bowels before placing it to print]

"There should be no mystery surrounding france's inability to forgive America for rescuing it from the Gestapo more than half a century ago."

What about the US's inability to forgive the French for rescuing it from the British Monarchy well over 200 years ago? Had it not been for French involvement, we'd all be taking a moment for tea and spotted dick.

"A species that isn't even bipedal most of the time, the french will side with a beastly hegemon if it will prolong their time on this earth for sex by one more day."

żQUE? No lo comprendo. Do you mean to suggest that if they were forced into making a decision about being killed or having intercourse with an animal they would seek that relationship with the animal?

The rest of it is....The french have art, music, fine wine....the Holocaust was set to classical music and fine dining..the Germans took away from the French buddies 10,000 people to put in the gas chamber...The french are sick porn freaks....the french speak softly and I don't like them.

one last little snippet

"Yet in Paris, where they speak in soft tones and posture demurely, they bristle when the gregarious, high-decibel American approaches with a question, and pretend they don't understand English."

is code for: "when in Paris, where they speak at a normal level and don't stand like a cocky US AMERICAN, the French cringe when they hear the overbearing and loudspoken American approaches speaking only English, and demands that the French learn English...what did I say about "sink or swim"?"

I can't stomach much more of this kind of writing. It's proof anyone can get a job writing for someone on something somewhere.

Posted by: Auberon / Wednesday, August 27, 2003

Julia Gorin takes on public education

-snip-

While battles continue to rage in states like Oregon, Texas, Colorado, Illinois and New York, where some language education "experts" still cling to an outmoded construction known as bilingual education, Las Vegas hotel-casinos teach English (search) the way new Americans have been learning it for generations: immersion, sink or swim.

-snip-

-snip-

Vegas[a public entity]...has done so simply by not tampering with an individual's natural predisposition to grasp a new language faster when it is the only tool available....

Bilingual education children can't read or write in English, immigrants at the Bellagio are forced to communicate with co-workers and guests in English [nothing connotes reading or writing here...merely being able to say "hello", "good afternoon", "house keeping", and "right away Sir/Ma'am"]

-snip-

-snip-

ESL is taught only one hour a day, and all instruction is in the native tongue [not correct actually, ESL is a place to go when you don't understand your English-based lessons in all subjects]

-snip-

-snip-

The English language is taught by local community college instructors [doesn't that essentially mean it's public education?]

-snip-

-snip-

Granted, the standards for proficiency may not be quite the same between casino-run ESL programs and those at public schools, but at least the illiteracy rate among the willing isn't increasing at this non-educational facility the way it did for years among the Spanish-speaking bilingual ed school children of California, where teachers would heap praise on third-graders when they managed merely to recite the alphabet.

[Your standards are admittedly lower, so a higher "literacy" rate which cannot be compared to any other situation are nothing but fuzzy math. To make matters worse, Julia makes a comparison between fuzzy math literacy rates of a private corporation and a heavily underfunded/overpopulated public school system that IN THE PAST had a decrease in actual literacy rates merely due to population increases]

-snip-

-snip-

In the end, it's all really no different from how millions of new Americans make their way in every town and city across the country when they're not being obstructed by public education. Sometimes it takes a private corporation that isn't in the education business to remind us of that.

[i wonder if the author's attitude would be the same if she were to be placed in Argentina/Pakistan/Mongolia/Brazil/France?? Would she demand that other's be sympathetic to her learning curve? Sink or swim I say. Public education, which apparently is a business, obstructs children from learning? I guess if we were to have all education go private, and students were to fail to speak english fluently within 15 weeks, we could fire all of the staff, which I'm sure were being paid far greater than they were when they were publicly funded. Private instructors are not cheap, Motivational speaker, corporate trainer, HR specialists are all fancy words for "teacher", and they most certainly are not exhausting the list of teacher pseudonyms. So let's take the author's implied advice and make education a private matter, but at least have the moral fiber to keep the higher standards she admits public education maintains. With the increased costs of education, I'm sure we'll see 100% approval ratings for those in charge once the costs of the new educational initiatives are passed on to the tax payer...or since this is private education...will you have to pay for your own education?...There we have it, the true motive of the author, most probably wanting to take a stab at public education so that she could make the case for vouchers later on. ]

-snip-

Time to look more into Julia Gorin's views. Let's see how fair and balanced Julia really is.

much better worder than anything i could spit

(edit took non-related articles from a blog (Fair and Balanced) to show a who JG is actually , the second article quoted is this one : Language Lessons, Vegas Style concerning the teaching of english to immigrants in Las Vegas)

[GoOB 0]

Quote[/b] ]Yeah, you're probably right. They do get really carried away from time to time. I posted a while ago this openly racist article published on FOX as an example of what kind of journalism they're into.

OWW that link is bad.  

France uncivilized? Fox should do some introspectionism.(sp?)

That coming from a country wich based it's constitution on what French revolutioniaries wanted from a modern scociety. Rosseu (sp?), Voltaire and all the others are turning in their graves right about now I figure.

[ran 0]

Quote[/b] ]Yeah, you're probably right. They do get really carried away from time to time. I posted a while ago this openly racist article published on FOX as an example of what kind of journalism they're into.

OWW that link is bad.  

France uncivilized? Fox should do some introspectionism.(sp?)

That coming from a country wich based it's constitution on what French revolutioniaries wanted from a modern scociety. Rosseu (sp?), Voltaire and all the others are turning in their graves right about now I figure.

*Rousseau

and yes , .. well they're not turning anymore .... they're now spinning at the same cyclic as a concorde's engine

[DracoPaladore 0]

Just shows you how high above the human race the United States think they are. If people truly beleive this, then it shows that indeed that they know nothing about the world.

Yes, the rest of the world are nothing more than neandertals trying to invent fire, yet the Americans are nothing less than gods.