Less than conventional military groups

[IceFire 0]

Ok, I know I already posted this as a post in another thread.

But I really want to know what some of the folks here think about this.  So I decided to make this its own thread.

I was recently doing some research on military units.  And came to some interesting findings.

About a year ago I remember watching the Discovery channel, it was on the usual topic of the "Military" or topics relating to the military.

There was a program that was talking about modern day "Militias".

It described in detail several LEGAL military "Militias" located in the south.  One of the best militias was I believe the Missouri 51st militia.

Apparently they are VERY well trained.  Trained for all sorts of combat, sniper trained, trained in Escape & Evasion, reconaissance,  survival, hand to hand combat,   ...  etc.    Basically they are real trained soldiers.   Many of the ranking officers and instuctors are ex US Army Rangers, US Marines, etc..

They are also trained in missing person search and rescue, natural disaster survival ...  And you can elect for further training in a field, they encourage it.

Any person can swear in to join them, regardless of race, gender, etc.. providing you are willing to commit and are willing to die for your country if needed.

After doing some research on them, I'd say that a soldier of this militia is either as well trained, or even better trained than the average US Army soldier.

Again, they allowed the Discovery channel into their base for the prorgam and are apparently VERY legal(thanks to our constitution) and well trained for almost any scenario, and well equipped.

They absolutely DO NOT support ANYONE who breaks US laws, or is of questionable character.  They state that very clearly as it is important for them to maintain their credibility.

They are called the Missouri 51st militia(I believe).

They apparently have their own "special operations capable" commando units.  Similar to USMC MEU I think.

What do you folks think about this?

[FSPilot 0]

I think they have a bad reputation but good intentions. I probably wouldn't join one myself, but it looks like a good way to serve your community.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

[IceFire 0]

LOL.

Eh, from what I saw on Discovery, these 51st militia guys are actually pretty professionally trained.(I'm pretty sure that is the militia I saw on the Discovery channel)

They are in good shape, have their own tactical units, and good training. Some of the instuctors are ex Marine Recon, other ex military.

I wouln't underestimate them.

[madmedic 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ Mar. 29 2003,07:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

He He..."Them two fellers in the middle got built in, high absorbtion, body armor".

Seriously though, there are "militias" out there like the one you speak of...(infact, by the correct definition...You, me, and all other able bodied, and willing civilian American males are the "militia")

But ther are actually alot of groups that are on the level, like the one you saw on Discovery.

The word "militia" has been mutated though...and NOW most people associate it with para-military, anti government, white supremacist, seperatist groups.

That is because those people are the ones who do stupid things, and make the news.

[madmedic 0]

For something similar in nature...

Do a Google search for "Ranch Rescue"

[IceFire 0]

I just looked at some of those ranch rescue sites.

Umm, they seem a lot less well trained. More like a bunch of rednecks playing with guns wearing camo.

The folks I was talking about are actually a small trained army of their own.

[madmedic 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (IceFire @ Mar. 29 2003,07:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I just looked at some of those ranch rescue sites.

Umm,  they seem a lot less well trained.  More like a bunch of rednecks playing with guns wearing camo.

The folks I was talking about are actually a small trained army of their own.<span id='postcolor'>

well, Ranch Rescue is not actually a so-called "militia"...they volunteer to help secure South West ranch land from illegal aliens.

The Ranchers down there are having a really bad time with vandalism, and theft.

MOST of what ranch recue does is mend/build fences, ect. ect.

But they do sometimes act as armed security on the ranchers private land.

[edc 0]

While I strongly support the right to bear arms I think the role/need of militas has changed drastically since the Revolutionary War. Nowdays, most militias are quasi-terrorist groups.

[madmedic 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (edc @ Mar. 29 2003,09:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">While I strongly support the right to bear arms I think the role/need of militas has changed drastically since the Revolutionary War.  Nowdays, most militias are quasi-terrorist groups.<span id='postcolor'>

No, actually you have just proved my point.

Only the so-called "militias" that you hear about are quasi-terrorist.

They are the only ones deemed "newsworthy".

And the only reason they are refered to as "militia", is because that is what they call themselves

Thus, the media buzz word "MILITIA" was born...refering to "quasi-terrorist" groups.

That is not the definition of "militia" however.

[Renagade 0]

so these militia ppl are a bunch of guys in a little group like the a-team

[IceFire 0]

Yup, they have their own training facilities, combat medics, rank system, their own judicial system(apparently one can be court martialed), gaurd units, soldiers etc..

It's like a little trained army.

[Necromancer- 0]

Uhm...

What's the use of this anyway??

The US army and this "militia" share the same point of view.

What is their real motivation apart from "defending their country"?

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Necromancer- @ Mar. 29 2003,17:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Uhm...

What's the use of this anyway??

The US army and this "militia" share the same point of view.

What is their real motivation apart from "defending their country"?<span id='postcolor'>

showing off ? why didn't they choose to stay in the service ? or even to become mercenaries ? would be more usefull and they would earn maybe more money ....

[MrMilli 0]

OK, the question is what is my opinion so here it is

wannabes who couldn't stay in/couldn't join for X Y or Z reason but want to do it anyway.

What exactly is the point?

They call themselves soldiers but if the REAL army goes off to war where are they?

If such people wanted to be in the Army they should either join out right, or join the reserves, because running around with a firearm on the weekends does not make them a soldier or anything close to it, no matter how organised they think they are.

[FSPilot 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ Mar. 29 2003,22:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">why didn't they choose to stay in the service ? or even to become mercenaries ?<span id='postcolor'>

Something tells me they couldn't pass the physical.

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (MrMilli @ Mar. 29 2003,17:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">OK, the question is what is my opinion so here it is

wannabes who couldn't stay in/couldn't join for X Y or Z reason but want to do it anyway.

What exactly is the point?

They call themselves soldiers but if the REAL army goes off to war where are they?

If such people wanted to be in the Army they should either join out right, or join the reserves, because running around with a firearm on the weekends does not make them a soldier or anything close to it, no matter how organised they think they are.<span id='postcolor'>

i agree 100%

[IceFire 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (MrMilli @ Mar. 29 2003,17:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">OK, the question is what is my opinion so here it is

wannabes who couldn't stay in/couldn't join for X Y or Z reason but want to do it anyway.

What exactly is the point?

They call themselves soldiers but if the REAL army goes off to war where are they?

If such people wanted to be in the Army they should either join out right, or join the reserves, because running around with a firearm on the weekends does not make them a soldier or anything close to it, no matter how organised they think they are.<span id='postcolor'>

Mr.Milli,

I disagree with you there. I think it's a good idea for them. And they are just as much "soldiers" as any Army/Marine soldier.

1) Their idea is to defend US soil, not go over seas to fight for a government they they might not agree with, as many of their ideas and philosophies disagree with alot of US policy.

2) I hesitate to think of them as just a weekend unit. Alot of the members are very dedicated and train almost all the time in whatever their specialty is, whether it it is communications, or infantry.

So to say they are just a bunch of wannabes who couln't make it in the US military or couln't join is not accurate. They might have just gotten fed up with Government military BS/beaurocracy. Or fed up with policy that they disagree with.

Even the IRA in Northern Ireland is a type of "militia". And I would say that the IRA is VERY VERY well trained, tightly knit organization even though they are not an OFFICIAL army.

[FSPilot 0]

Even though they're not really soldiers, they still do a lot for the community. They do search and rescue, and apparently help the ranchers down south.

and fund raising car washes. *snicker*

[Balschoiw 0]

I have seen a report on militia troops in the US lately. Some of them oppose the government and are / were involved in terroristic acts like killing black policemen, etc.

I guess those guys are a danger for inner stabillity, buit I don´t really care. Maybe the US should clean up their backyard before they go hunting abroad. Could be good for US citizens, but who knows ?

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Mar. 29 2003,17:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ Mar. 29 2003,22:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">why didn't they choose to stay in the service ? or even to become mercenaries ?<span id='postcolor'>

Something tells me they couldn't pass the physical.  <span id='postcolor'>

heh ? they were over the top of the US physical requirements ?

nah , they'd better go home taking care of Patsy , Betsy , Ally and Marylin , their 80lb nieces and wives changing their inbred children's diaper , Joshua , John , Johnny , Bobby , Robby , Abby , Harry , Larry , Angus , Mary-Kate , Fatia , Chucky , Chunky , Shanon and Sharon and hunting wildboar and getting knocked down afterward drinking entire packs of cheap bear and watching a TV Soap like Seven Heaven and make love to their wives and oldest daughters ......

- edit -

i forgot that they also should go to church listening to the Reverand Markus' preach and get drunk after the ceremony and beat their wives and children ...

sry , couldn't resist , i can't avoid having cheap shots at cheap people

[Balschoiw 0]

Now I remember. The Oklahoma bomber was a member of militia.

Interesting read

[MrMilli 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (IceFire @ Mar. 29 2003,16:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (MrMilli @ Mar. 29 2003,17:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">OK, the question is what is my opinion so here it is

wannabes who couldn't stay in/couldn't join for X Y or Z reason but want to do it anyway.

What exactly is the point?

They call themselves soldiers but if the REAL army goes off to war where are they?

If such people wanted to be in the Army they should either join out right, or join the reserves, because running around with a firearm on the weekends does not make them a soldier or anything close to it, no matter how organised they think they are.<span id='postcolor'>

Mr.Milli,

I disagree with you there.  I think it's a good idea for them.  And they are just as much "soldiers" as any Army/Marine soldier.

1) Their idea is to defend US soil, not go over seas to fight for a government they they might not agree with, as many of their ideas and philosophies disagree with alot of US policy.

2)  I hesitate to think of them as just a weekend unit.  Alot of the members are very dedicated and train almost all the time in whatever their specialty is, whether it it is communications, or infantry.

So to say they are just a bunch of wannabes who couln't make it in the US military or couln't join is not accurate.  They might have just gotten fed up with Government military BS/beaurocracy.  Or fed up with policy that they disagree with.

Even the IRA in Northern Ireland is a type of "militia".  And I would say that the IRA is VERY VERY well trained, tightly knit organization even though they are not an OFFICIAL army.<span id='postcolor'>

Sorry if this seems aggressive but I can't see your point of view here.

They are not soldiers.

Some may be ex-soldiers.

A soldier is someone who is serving their country.

What service do these people provide for their country?

Protecting the US from the roaming bands of marauding Candians in the north and barbarian Mexicans in the south?

Who are they training to fight?

If they disagree with the policy of the government and are training and arming themselves then things don't look good.

I fail to see the point, the motivation or the legality or these people's actions.

I guess this will have to be chalked up to differing backgrounds, I am British and the thought of someone roaming the countryside with automatic weapons dressed in cams rings alarm bells to me

On the IRA bit

1916? maybe you could call them a Militia.

1921? a lot of them went on to form the Irish Army.

1967-present

No.

Some of them recieved training in other countries, for some time they conducted training back in the 60's and early 70's but the only ones who the media points out where the highly trained highly motivated few.

The many who would fumble an ambush and get ventilated by the army, blow themselves up or construct a bomb that either doesn't go off, is poorly made so it only partially detonates and harms no-one or just get caught with them at a VCP in Northern Ireland

They aren't looked at for more than a few lines or seconds on the news.

Would I call the IRA soldiers?

NEVER.

The mere thought that they call themselves that disgusts me.

[madmedic 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Balschoiw @ Mar. 29 2003,17:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have seen a report on militia troops in the US lately. Some of them oppose the government and are / were involved in terroristic acts like killing black policemen, etc.

I guess those guys are a danger for inner stabillity, buit I don´t really care. Maybe the US should clean up their backyard before they go hunting abroad. Could be good for US citizens, but who knows ?<span id='postcolor'>

Eh' hemm...like I said in an earlier post, the only so-called "militias" you will hear about in the news are the ones that are bad. (like the one the Oklahoma City bomber belonged to)

THOSE groups caused the word "militia" to be associated with anti government, white supremacist, terrorist rhetoric.

There are actually alot of "militia" groups out there that are productive parts of their communities, and have nothing to do with any of that criminal activity.

They have performed SAR after natural disasters like hurricanes, tornados, ect...and they have helped search for missing persons in the woods.

[Renagade 0]

still soldiers though maybe not ur meaning of it.

Icefire can u be more specific on these militias.

From what i`ve heard of it i get a picture of some weird vigilante group ,which when dealing with the general public, sits far to close to stupid mob but at the same time it seems like some sort ofall round helpers

Over hear their was talk of new legislation to give limited police powers to civilians(bad ) and subletting parts of the police to deal with areas that need some manpower like on buses etc which isn`t so bad when theres some organized crime and thug types in a few security buisnesses or so the papers say.