Deltas and rangers released!

[ViperCheese 0]

why not released some soldiers equipped with eastern weapons. It would add a nice element to both multiplayer, and some behind enemy lines type single player missions. it's easy enough to add them manually, but it would make things easier. sorry if this has been mentioned before, i didnt feel like reading 40 pages.

[OxPecker 0]

I haven't read the whole thread, so don't shoot me if this has already been raised.

The only thing I don't like about these units is how they all have the ability to self heal. Combined with the fact they can take more hits than other infantry units (due to their armor), this can make them really unbalanced.

I had a mess around in the mission editor as an East sniper, sniping at a Delta squad.

Every shot that hit anywhere except the head wasn't fatal, and the unit immediately dropped down to his haunches and began regenerating. OK, I could pop another couple shots into him while he was healing, but IMHO this makes for a unit that is a bit overpowered compared to other ingame units.

Any thoughts?

[NavyEEL 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (OxPecker @ Feb. 26 2003,02:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I haven't read the whole thread, so don't shoot me if this has already been raised.

The only thing I don't like about these units is how they all have the ability to self heal. Combined with the fact they can take more hits than other infantry units (due to their armor), this can make them really unbalanced.

I had a mess around in the mission editor as an East sniper, sniping at a Delta squad.

Every shot that hit anywhere except the head wasn't fatal, and the unit immediately dropped down to his haunches and began regenerating. OK, I could pop another couple shots into him while he was healing, but IMHO this makes for a unit that is a bit overpowered compared to other ingame units.

Any thoughts?<span id='postcolor'>

it's not some "other ingame unit". it's a delta operator. they have skills and willpower that other troops just dont have, plus the ability to mentally overcome large amounts of physical pain in order to complete the mission. i personally like them as they are

[XTreme 0]

in ballistic homepage it says theres a campaign, they said its posted here, where is it or can somebody tell em the url?

[OxPecker 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (NavyEEL @ Feb. 26 2003,02:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (OxPecker @ Feb. 26 2003,02:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I haven't read the whole thread, so don't shoot me if this has already been raised.

The only thing I don't like about these units is how they all have the ability to self heal. Combined with the fact they can take more hits than other infantry units (due to their armor), this can make them really unbalanced.

I had a mess around in the mission editor as an East sniper, sniping at a Delta squad.

Every shot that hit anywhere except the head wasn't fatal, and the unit immediately dropped down to his haunches and began regenerating. OK, I could pop another couple shots into him while he was healing, but IMHO this makes for a unit that is a bit overpowered compared to other ingame units.

Any thoughts?<span id='postcolor'>

it's not some "other ingame unit".  it's a delta operator.  they have skills and willpower that other troops just dont have, plus the ability to mentally overcome large amounts of physical pain in order to complete the mission.  i personally like them as they are <span id='postcolor'>

Bloody hell, they're men, not Terminators!

All I'm worried about is game balance. Not much fun to play a unit who is almost indestructible.

[Lt_Damage 0]

I didn't notice any ability to self heal..?

I was injured and needed to wait for another unit to be nearby so I could heal.

And also one of my troops, a sniper was injured and I had to run back to him to heal him, if he could of healed himself he wouldn't of needed that..

[SGTKOPP 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (OxPecker @ Feb. 26 2003,04:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (NavyEEL @ Feb. 26 2003,02:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (OxPecker @ Feb. 26 2003,02:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I haven't read the whole thread, so don't shoot me if this has already been raised.

The only thing I don't like about these units is how they all have the ability to self heal. Combined with the fact they can take more hits than other infantry units (due to their armor), this can make them really unbalanced.

I had a mess around in the mission editor as an East sniper, sniping at a Delta squad.

Every shot that hit anywhere except the head wasn't fatal, and the unit immediately dropped down to his haunches and began regenerating. OK, I could pop another couple shots into him while he was healing, but IMHO this makes for a unit that is a bit overpowered compared to other ingame units.

Any thoughts?<span id='postcolor'>

it's not some "other ingame unit".  it's a delta operator.  they have skills and willpower that other troops just dont have, plus the ability to mentally overcome large amounts of physical pain in order to complete the mission.  i personally like them as they are <span id='postcolor'>

Bloody hell, they're men, not Terminators!  

All I'm worried about is game balance. Not much fun to play a unit who is almost indestructible.<span id='postcolor'>

i put hte deltas agaist DX germans and they where going tit for tat I gave them a small advantage but they fought them well Whats good is that if you are shot in certain no vital areas you can still move I like it it is more relistic

[~Too Tall~ 0]

ALL soldiers have some sort of "first aid" kit with them. so ALL the soldiers in game should have that ablity, only the medic can do it well. the deltas and rangers  (as said earlier) are trained to be able to withstand that type of punishment. and not all of em have that ablity. only delta team leaders, snipers, and 1 or 2 other types. and lastly (not to be rude, althou i do enjoy it sometimes) if u dont like em......dont usem. simple solution to an overly dramitized problem  

[~Too Tall~ 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Vixer @ Feb. 25 2003,12:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (marc0523 @ Feb. 25 2003,18:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A couple of things about the campaign

First of all, very good fun, I am enjoying it a lot.

Now, I’ve only come across two bugs so far, firstly, the first mission by the airport, I was in the water waiting for the boat to pick us up when the mission ended, however through the end outro I drowned, now, when I start the next mission I start dead!

Next thing, every mission starts off saying missing add-on bas_weapons, I press ok, the screen whites out and after that it all seems to be fine, I have got the weapons installed correctly and I haven’t noticed anything missing in game.

Also, just out of interest, where did the AK74-HD come from, has that always been in OFP and I've just never seen it before? <span id='postcolor'>

the AK HD is a modified AK version added by BAS<span id='postcolor'>

2 questions here

1: what does the HD stand for?

2: whats the difference form the orignal?

[acidcrash 0]

HD = High Dispersion i think it is

supposedly less accurate *shrugs* i dunno, didnt notice any difference

[OxPecker 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (~Too Tall~ @ Feb. 26 2003,06:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">ALL soldiers have some sort of "first aid" kit with them. so ALL the soldiers in game should have that ablity, only the medic can do it well. the deltas and rangers  (as said earlier) are trained to be able to withstand that type of punishment. and not all of em have that ablity. only delta team leaders, snipers, and 1 or 2 other types. and lastly (not to be rude, althou i do enjoy it sometimes) if u dont like em......dont usem. simple solution to an overly dramitized problem  <span id='postcolor'>

The probelm is, I do like them.

I want to use them in missions, I am just concerned about game balance.

And yes, most soldiers have medi kits to heal minor injuries, but I dont feel that unlimited self heal ability accuractely mirrors this.

I will look into it further, but with the team I fired at, almost all members began to self heal after each shot.

[dm 9]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (~Too Tall~ @ Feb. 26 2003,05:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">1: what does the HD stand for?

2: whats the difference form the orignal?<span id='postcolor'>

HD = High Dispertion

The difference? The AK47HD is way less accurate than the standard ingame BIS weapon, this goes to simulate a poorly trained operator - similar to the Somalis, or to any other band of Militia, who may not have the wonders of Government funding to spend all day fireing ammo at paper targets...

[Major Fubar 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DeadMeatXM2 @ Feb. 26 2003,11:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (~Too Tall~ @ Feb. 26 2003,05:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">1: what does the HD stand for?

2: whats the difference form the orignal?<span id='postcolor'>

HD = High Dispertion

The difference? The AK47HD is way less accurate than the standard ingame BIS weapon, this goes to simulate a poorly trained operator - similar to the Somalis, or to any other band of Militia, who may not have the wonders of Government funding to spend all day fireing ammo at paper targets...<span id='postcolor'>

So how does that relate to the units skill slider setting?

[Cloney 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Major Fubar @ Feb. 26 2003,12:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DeadMeatXM2 @ Feb. 26 2003,11:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (~Too Tall~ @ Feb. 26 2003,05:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">1: what does the HD stand for?

2: whats the difference form the orignal?<span id='postcolor'>

HD = High Dispertion

The difference? The AK47HD is way less accurate than the standard ingame BIS weapon, this goes to simulate a poorly trained operator - similar to the Somalis, or to any other band of Militia, who may not have the wonders of Government funding to spend all day fireing ammo at paper targets...<span id='postcolor'>

So how does that relate to the units skill slider setting?<span id='postcolor'>

They will prolly shoot more accurately in theory but it probably won't make too much of a difference since it is the Gun's accuracy and not the soldier's skill level that is making them miss.

[miles teg 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Major Fubar @ Feb. 26 2003,12:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So how does that relate to the units skill slider setting?<span id='postcolor'>

All the skill slider does is change the range at which a soldier detects an enemy. It does nothing for effecting accuracy from what I can tell. So I think the high-dispersion AK is a good solution... you'll just need ALOT of Somalies however cuz the Delta/Ranger guys will pick off hundreds of them.

There's some respawn scripts that work with SP games. That way you can just reuse the Somalies when they die and have a continuing barrage of drug crazed gunmen after you and your men throughout the whole mission.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Miles Teg @ Feb. 26 2003,14:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Major Fubar @ Feb. 26 2003,12:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So how does that relate to the units skill slider setting?<span id='postcolor'>

All the skill slider does is change the range at which a soldier detects an enemy.  It does nothing for effecting accuracy from what I can tell.<span id='postcolor'>

See this thread.

Question, Miles: Do you play with the SUPER AI setting enabled or disabled?

[BAS-Damocles 0]

Just to respond to the issue regarding self healing units etc:

Firstly, in reality SF soldiers (Delta, Rangers, SEALs, and Special Forces) are all issued and wear body armor that also includes plates that will stop up to and including 7.62mm rounds.

Additionally SF soldiers receive quite a bit more first aid training, as well as more advanced training then the average soldier. Rangers are required to have several EMT (Emergency Medical Technician) certified soldiers per squad in addition to the medics that may be traveling with the squad or platoon.

Special Forces soldiers (Delta, SEALs, included) not only have etremely advanced first aid capabilities provided by their medics, they also cross train each skill among the other members.

We tried to simulate this as accurately as possible within the game engine, and as to the question of balance this is somewhat evened out due to the fact that while healing, or healing another unit, the unit is not able to return fire or seek cover.

You will also notice that extreme range shots with any of the available weapons are less effective then shots taken within the weapons effective range envelope . This too simulates a realistic condition.

We assure you they are not indestructable and can be killed by normal troops.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (BAS-Damocles @ Feb. 26 2003,18:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">We tried to simulate this as accurately as possible within the game engine, and as to the question of balance this is somewhat evened out due to the fact that while healing, or healing another unit, the unit is not able to return fire or seek cover.<span id='postcolor'>

I see two possible solutions to this:

1. Either add a medic unit to the Deltas and Rangers. This restores the balance and you still have those vests adding extra protection to the BAS units.

2. Make it take longer for a unit to self heal. Also leans towards realism, puts the unit at greater risk while still retaining the self healing ability.

[MP Studio 0]

The Rangers don't heal themselves... they have a medic

[BAS-Damocles 0]

There is a medic already included with the Rangers, and the length of time it takes to self heal, or heal another soldier is considerable already. We havent truly seen this to be an issue with respect to game balance, either in single or multi player modes of play.

Additionally our missions to demo then units and their skills often place them in a situation of being vastly outnumbered. In the single player mode this is quite challenging.

As to game balance issues when creating multiplayer missions, you should remeber that Deltas operate in small units. Often times in teams of 4.

Obviously if you are building missions that are battalion sized elements of Deltas and even Rangers there is going to be a balance issue.

Until a method can be divised to adequately handle the issue we plan to leave them as is. As I stated we have tested them fairly extensively, and for realism sake we intended them to be stronger and more capable than standard units as they are in reality.

The addons were intended to augment normal forces to enhance the realism of mission building. It is truly not feasible realstic or likely to use large numbers of these guys in reality or in game with the exception of using the Rangers to create an Airfield Seizure mission, in which case in reality an ENTIRE company would be dropped directly on an airfield to physically take it from the enemy, and keep the runway intact for allied use.

If trying to create a realistic scenario in game involving an airfield siezure, then game balance would purposely be poor from the defending side as would be the case in reality. The only hope for the defender would come in the form of well lead and employed reinforcements, because badguys on the airfield are toast.

[~Too Tall~ 0]

i think they are perfect. and if u dont like em, FECK OFF

[XTreme 0]

has anybody noticed that if yous elect the weapon with the m203 granade launcher and when u go to the little slots to get more mags there is none for m203......

[blackdog~ 0]

They are AD133HE Grenade or something like that in the magazine menu.

[~Too Tall~ 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (XTreme @ Feb. 26 2003,18:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">has anybody noticed that if yous elect the weapon with the m203 granade launcher and when u go to the little slots to get more mags there is none for m203......<span id='postcolor'>

i noticed it uses the pic from teh nam pack 2.0, mabe you have to have that too

[OxPecker 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (~Too Tall~ @ Feb. 26 2003,22:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i think they are perfect. and if u dont like em, FECK OFF  <span id='postcolor'>

Once again you have totally missed the point. Did you actually read what I said?

Or maybe your evil twin has taken control of your account again, eh Too Tall?

Anyway, thanks to BAS for the expanation of self healing. While I mightn't neccessarily agree with the reasoning, I certainly accept it. Thanks for taking the time to respond.