Bernadotte 0 Posted January 26, 2003 Thanks for all the info and for pointing me to the "Snipers" thread. By the way, has depleted Uranium or some other higher density metal ever been used for subsonic ammo to improve range and energy at the lower velocities? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FSPilot 0 Posted January 26, 2003 How would energy increase with a decreased velocity? Unless the mass had increased. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bernadotte 0 Posted January 26, 2003 A Tungsten or Uranium bullet travelling at mach 0.99 would have about the same energy as a Lead bullet travelling at mach 1.65. ...But there wouldn't be any sonic boom. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tex -USMC- 0 Posted January 26, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ Jan. 26 2003,20:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A Tungsten or Uranium bullet travelling at mach 0.99 would have about the same energy as a Lead bullet travelling at mach 1.65. Â ...But there wouldn't be any sonic boom.<span id='postcolor'> I think it would violate the Geneva Convention to use DU rounds in a rifle or submachine gun Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
USMC Sniper 0 Posted January 26, 2003 I have another question: since some aircraft fly faster than a bullet, do the planes use some kind of special high-speed ammo so they can shoot other planes? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FSPilot 0 Posted January 26, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ Jan. 27 2003,01:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ Jan. 26 2003,20:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A Tungsten or Uranium bullet travelling at mach 0.99 would have about the same energy as a Lead bullet travelling at mach 1.65. Â ...But there wouldn't be any sonic boom.<span id='postcolor'> I think it would violate the Geneva Convention to use DU rounds in a rifle or submachine gun<span id='postcolor'> Not only that but it would defeat the purpose of using a depleted uranium bullet. They're designed to pierce armor, not skin. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NavyEEL 0 Posted January 26, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (USMC Sniper @ Jan. 26 2003,20:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have another question: since some aircraft fly faster than a bullet, do the planes use some kind of special high-speed ammo so they can shoot other planes?<span id='postcolor'> the bullets fired from a moving plane have a total velocity of (plane's velocity) + (muzzle velocity), so they don't have to be *that* much faster. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spitfire 0 Posted January 26, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (USMC Sniper @ Jan. 26 2003,21:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have another question: since some aircraft fly faster than a bullet, do the planes use some kind of special high-speed ammo so they can shoot other planes?<span id='postcolor'> Hehe, this one's a classic question. Despite the increased air resistance, it's the matter of point of reference. The muzzle velocity of the bullet is added to the plane's velocity. The speed of the bullet will - of course - decrease rapidly but not enough so the target plane cannot run away from the bullet Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 26, 2003 Unless the plane travels near the speed of light Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spitfire 0 Posted January 26, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Jan. 26 2003,22:02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Unless the plane travels near the speed of light <span id='postcolor'> That one has to be the nitpickiest comment by any moderator of any forum ever! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
USMC Sniper 0 Posted January 26, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Spitfire @ Jan. 26 2003,21:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (USMC Sniper @ Jan. 26 2003,21:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have another question: since some aircraft fly faster than a bullet, do the planes use some kind of special high-speed ammo so they can shoot other planes?<span id='postcolor'> Hehe, this one's a classic question. Despite the increased air resistance, it's the matter of point of reference. The muzzle velocity of the bullet is added to the plane's velocity. The speed of the bullet will - of course - decrease rapidly but not enough so the target plane cannot run away from the bullet <span id='postcolor'> Cool. Although it would be cool being inside a jet and a bullet is flying the same speed beside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spitfire 0 Posted January 26, 2003 As an addition, if you have ever seen a 20mm Vulcan cartridge next to a 7.62mm Lapua sniper rifle round, you instantly realize how much bigger Vulcan's muzzle velocity really is... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ran 0 Posted January 26, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Jan. 26 2003,20:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ Jan. 27 2003,01:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ Jan. 26 2003,20:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A Tungsten or Uranium bullet travelling at mach 0.99 would have about the same energy as a Lead bullet travelling at mach 1.65. Â ...But there wouldn't be any sonic boom.<span id='postcolor'> I think it would violate the Geneva Convention to use DU rounds in a rifle or submachine gun<span id='postcolor'> Not only that but it would defeat the purpose of using a depleted uranium bullet. Â They're designed to pierce armor, not skin.<span id='postcolor'> heh we aren't talking about using a 120mm DU sabot , just a small piece of depleted uranium used because it's weights more than classic metals Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
E6Hotel 0 Posted January 26, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Jan. 26 2003,21:02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Unless the plane travels near the speed of light <span id='postcolor'> My question is, if the plane is traveling at the speed of light, what happens when the pilot turns on the headlights? Semper Fi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spitfire 0 Posted January 26, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (E6Hotel @ Jan. 26 2003,22:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Jan. 26 2003,21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Unless the plane travels near the speed of light <!--emo&<span id='postcolor'> My question is, if the plane is traveling at the speed of light, what happens when the pilot turns on the headlights? Semper Fi<span id='postcolor'> Show me a plane with headlights first, and I'll tell ya . (landing lights do not count) Â edit: Yet again a perfectly derailed thread Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
USMC Sniper 0 Posted January 26, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (E6Hotel @ Jan. 26 2003,21:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">2--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Jan. 26 2003,212)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Unless the plane travels near the speed of light <span id='postcolor'> My question is, if the plane is traveling at the speed of light, what happens when the pilot turns on the headlights? Semper Fi<span id='postcolor'> He wouldn't do anything because the air resistance would make his plane and him be vaporized immendiately. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 26, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (E6Hotel @ Jan. 26 2003,21:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My question is, if the plane is traveling at the speed of light, what happens when the pilot turns on the headlights?<span id='postcolor'> The answer is simple: it couldn't. It's mass would become infinite and to move an infinite mass you would need infinite energy The more general question is what happens if a light source moves the speed of light? The answer is the light equivalent of a sonic boom. This can be observed whenever charged particles pass through a medium with a velocity exceeding the speedof light in the medium. This can be observed in among other things reactors and it's called Cherenkov Radiation. Edit: This is what it looks like - blue glowing: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
USMC Sniper 0 Posted January 26, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Jan. 26 2003,22:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (E6Hotel @ Jan. 26 2003,21:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My question is, if the plane is traveling at the speed of light, what happens when the pilot turns on the headlights?<span id='postcolor'> The answer is simple: it couldn't. It's mass would become infinite and to move an infinite mass you would need infinite energy The more general question is what happens if a light source moves the speed of light? The answer is the light equivalent of a sonic boom. This can be observed whenever charged particles pass through a medium with a velocity exceeding the speedof light in the medium. This can be observed in among other things reactors and it's called Cherenkov Radiation. Edit: This is what it looks like - blue glowing: <span id='postcolor'> What do you mean by "in the medium"? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 26, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (USMC Sniper @ Jan. 26 2003,22:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What do you mean by "in the medium"?<span id='postcolor'> Medium = material, matter. Light travels at different speed through different materials. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spitfire 0 Posted January 26, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Jan. 26 2003,23:05)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">3--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (USMC Sniper @ Jan. 26 2003,223)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What do you mean by "in the medium"?<span id='postcolor'> Medium = material, matter. Light travels at different speed through different materials.<span id='postcolor'> And - what Denoir failed to mention - his answer doesn't violate laws of physics. Light can travel "faster than light" when travelling inside a medium. Lightspeed C is measured in vacuum. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 26, 2003 Yes indeed. The rule is that it can't go faster then C. Now, how do we connect this to the HK discussion. Anybody have any ideas? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spitfire 0 Posted January 26, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Jan. 26 2003,23:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Now, how do we connect this to the HK discussion. Anybody have any ideas? <span id='postcolor'> Yeah, when we attach a laser sight to the HK and fire a bullet from a train going near the speed of light, which one hits the target first? The bullet or the laser beam? See how simple it is to re-rail a perfectly derailed thread? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eh remraf 0 Posted January 26, 2003 In that case, wouldn't you have to have a superficial amount of area to calculate that? Or does the train derail and fly off into space? See how easy it is to derail a rerailed topic... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Renagade 0 Posted January 26, 2003 don`t worry ill save the thread I rememberr playing swat3 and in the little weapons info when u were loading out ur man it had some silencerrs that worked with super sonic ammo now ,how much more quiet would this be than if he wasn`t using the silencer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FSPilot 0 Posted January 26, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Spitfire @ Jan. 27 2003,02:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (E6Hotel @ Jan. 26 2003,22:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Jan. 26 2003,21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Unless the plane travels near the speed of light <!--emo&<span id='postcolor'> My question is, if the plane is traveling at the speed of light, what happens when the pilot turns on the headlights? Semper Fi<span id='postcolor'> Show me a plane with headlights first, and I'll tell ya . (landing lights do not count)  edit: Yet again a perfectly derailed thread  <span id='postcolor'> my thoughts exactly Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
