Your opinions on ofps "competition"

[EBass 0]

Well I feel this forum has gotten very boring recently. I felt this topic would provide some decent discussion plus be informative (I sound like Im starting a GCSE project) ok here goes.

First cos Im bored a quick recap on the genre.

I guess the first REAL signs of an OFP like game were in the Masterful Terra Nova back in 96. A squad based game in which you could order your squad around in an OFP like way. Each engagement was on a massive world with some engagements taking place at over 1km. The next real improvement was in Battlezone two years later. Although undersold, it was again a great game. With the ability to constuct buildings, order your units about and possibly for the first time in gaming allowed DECENT Vehicles AND on foot with you able to get in and out at will. If you havent got battlezone or its sequal BUY THEM. They deserve so much.

You have to remember the soldier Sim is very young in game terms, the first real example of it being delta force or rainbow six in 98. Soon came the first real OFP like game Hidden & Dangerous, still a classic. Now with massive processing power advancing FASTER than games require them the squad based soldier sim seems perfect. Allowing massive worlds (the gamers dream) good graphics and good character interaction.

BATTLEFIELD 1942: Very opinion split. Much of the OFP community condemns it for its imperfect realism and arcade like gameplay. Others point to its fantastic battles, good ideas (such as the implementation of artiliary) and the basic FUN.

VIETCONG: Seems to look very good ATM. The demo shows off some very adrenaline fuelled firefights in the jungle.

GHOST RECON: Not nearly as ambitious or BIG as flashpoint. However many love it for its superior combat dynamics (covering fire etc)

Delta Force: Covering massive areas, but without vehicles. Piss poor in single player but I find great online.

Rainbow Six series: Some nice CQB but not really OFP like really. More a "realistic" FPS

[HellToupee 0]

yea u cant beat deltaforce games online they were sum of the greatest mp games ive played, there were a few cheaters now and again but i didnt run into many, 64 player capture the hill or attack and defend was unmatched.

[//relic// 0]

Rainbow 6 - hideous graphics, awkward movement, AI that is 100% useless and hasn't even got decent pathfinding routines.

BF1942 - *rolls eyes* No comment necessary

Ghost Recon: Pretty much as bad as Rainbow 6 but with all the things that made Rainbow 6 semi decent removed e.g mission planning

Delta force - Haven't played it in a long time but it was pretty ordinary.

Viet Cong - ?

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (//relic// @ Jan. 19 2003,06:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Viet Cong - ?<span id='postcolor'>

http://www.vietcong-game.com/us/index.html

[ralphwiggum 6]

problem is there exists so many factors in real life that incorporating it in PC environment is hard. OFP is closest so far, but is not perfect.

BATTLEFIELD 1942: fun fun fun MP. that's it. basic models, and i see no advantage that can be presented in terms of realism. first game to incorporate somewhat larger area in kiddie FPS genre.

VIETCONG: fine but needs some change. if i can go in and get 10 kills as sniper before my first death, it has serious problem to be dealt with nice job with numerous bushes and etc., but hope some bugs(such as when crawling near some bushes make you face upwards) are fixed. nice no brainer FPS with a bit more stuff to make kiddies go nuts.

GHOST RECON: it is enjoyable, but somewhat lacking. limited environment, and AIs that are not as responsive to your order can be frustrating sometimes.(or maybe lack of specific orders). good attempt to use increased area.

Delta Force: a very good game where a lot of OFP players come from. first to cover wider area.

Rainbow Six series: first R6 was something. this got me into FPS. nice job in doing models.

just realized that most of the games above have onething in common. the 'world' or 'OA' is premade-limiting areas. in OFP, the islands exists, and then you add another bunch of objects on it. in other games listed above, it seems like everything is pre-made as a whole deal. saves a lot of calculation, so i guess it works.

[CanVagabond 0]

I won't comment on any other games other than Ghost Recon, and will add another consideration for you all.

My Big Ghost Recon Pro's

1. On the fly mission "planning" is great. I work in two man fireteams and to great effect in SP. The thing is, you need to think defensive and pace yourself, I've seen lots of people get frustrated when they can't go Quake. I'm not making fun of Quake games(Unreal 2 so close!.

2. Infantry oriented. My HUGE beef with OpFlash is that it didn't have three different campaigns focusing on each element (Infantry, Armored, Air). I hate using tanks, and the only aircraft I like using is the Blackhawk for fast movement of troops. The attack heli's are cool, but feel so removed. In Ghost Recon, you are IT. You run into a few tanks and have support(This element of the game seems more slapped on than anything) but assaults and defenses are fun.

My Big Ghost Recon Con's.

1. Weapon's load outs. Bo-ooo-ring! I like the mM16, but prefer the M4(EDIT - I know you can use the Demo guy to get the M4, but you get the idea). I'd like to see a larger variety(but not overboard) of wepons. I hate the idea of knowing I need to assault a close building with M16's, it might work in RL(dunno just yet) BUT, I love the UMP45.

2. Too restrictive. The game IS linear, and the asaults are almost dictated. Only getting cauhgt in the open was exciting. Other than that, toss a M203 grenade to clear the building. Not totally bad, but you'll see my point in a minute.

Moving on.....

Delta Force: Blackhawk Down.

I've played the demo a couple times, but until I get my RAM upgrade(bumping me from 128 to 512) I have a limited view. However, this is it.

The level starts with you and you element onboard a Littlebird, flying alongside another Littlebird. You fly around a captured UN building, firing upon(and being fired upon) enemies. You circle the building twice before a pretty sweet landing in the yard, where your troops dismount and immediatly open fire on any enemies. The Littlebirds fly off, and I clear a room or two, and the game craps out due to my RAM.

The point is, my troops were as effective as me in hitting enemies. They didn't hesitate, they fired and hit as well as missed. In Ghost Recon, they fire only if they will hit, or in Suppress mode, they waste ammo. DF feels better that way.

When I ordered a room clearing, one trooper threw in a Flashbang (though I do complain about his exposure) and as soon as it went off, I followed them in(observing at this point, actual participation can wait). They moved in along the walls and took a four corner stance after that.

I'm losing my point, which is to support that the Soldier Sim is still young, but it is growing up fast.

EDIT - I forgot to add that SWAT: Close Quarters Battle has THE best squad interface. As well as squad AI. They check corners, throw bangers, open fire when needed and generally don't be stupid, though the AI does have problems in out door environments, it is still good.

[DarkLight 0]

Delta Force is the best online game of all those, especially df2, all the other df games that followed kinda suck compared to DF2.

Battlefield is pretty fun too, but not THAT fun.

Ghost Recon... Well, i hate games where you can't see the weapon that you're holding in your hands...

VC, haven't played it yet, looks nice...

[mr. Duck 0]

Df2 is quite nice in mp, you can have some very hectic situations in there

About sp... no comment...

Bf1945:

Never played it, so can't give opinion about it.

GR:

Nice graphics, but somewhat limited in you're operational area. Plus the firefights aren't that long (well not with me). Longest firefight I had lasted about 10 seconds. Bad thing about it is that it's too linear.

The A.I. is manageble... could be better, way much better, just like ofp (on my system).

[EBass 0]

I dunno what OFP players have against BF42. It seems to me that lots of the community "hate" it simply becuase its the "done" thing.

I know it isnt realistic (although I find its flight model far more realistic) But I find it tremendous fun. The firefights are more intensive and more dynamic than anything Ive yet seen in OFP and legendery moments happen in every game

[LowLevelFunctionary 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (You_looking_at_me? @ Jan. 19 2003,15:05)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I dunno what OFP players have against BF42. It seems to me that lots of the community "hate" it simply becuase its the "done" thing.

I know it isnt realistic (although I find its flight model far more realistic) But I find it tremendous fun. The firefights are more intensive and more dynamic than anything Ive yet seen in OFP and legendery moments happen in every game<span id='postcolor'>

Yah!

calling it a "kiddie" FPS is just wrong. Ive seen 50 year olds playing it so . Look I love realism, and most games that try to portray realism untill they cant do anymore, but you have to remeber realism isnt everyones cup of tea...

[hovmand 0]

God not this again.

BF1942:I dont like the graphics, too arcade it looks like a cartoon and everything has that pretty golden glow to it, i really dont care much for the sounds either now that i think about it. But the thing i "hate" most about it is its community, small CS kiddies that makes you wanna strangle them with a joystick cable

And its boring, is it not just about taking those damn flags?!?!? Yeah i know we have that in OFP, but we also have coops and all sorts of different gamemodes, AND most important, decent SP, in BF its just MP vs. bots. And i would bet that you dont get the same satisfaction (<-sp?) after a game of BF as you do in OFP, heh after a game of ofp i have to go get a smoke

Can you make scripts in BF?? Can you even make your own missions?? Can you navigate after the stars? Does it play in realtime? Do you have a compass? A watch? A detailed map?

I have to go take my pills soon

I think when it comes down to it im just jealous that Bf got all the credit ofp should have gotten.

Oh, the rest of the games are rather good, not counting ghost recon

[LowLevelFunctionary 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hovmand @ Jan. 19 2003,16:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">God not this again.

BF1942:I dont like the graphics, too arcade it looks like a cartoon and everything has that pretty golden glow to it, i really dont care much for the sounds either now that i think about it. But the thing i "hate" most about it is its community, small CS kiddies that makes you wanna strangle them with a joystick cable  

And its boring, is it not just about taking those damn flags?!?!? Yeah i know we have that in OFP, but we also have coops and all sorts of different gamemodes, AND most important, decent SP, in BF its just MP vs. bots. And i would bet that you dont get the same satisfaction (<-sp?) after a game of BF as you do in OFP, heh after a game of ofp i have to go get a smoke

Can you make scripts in BF?? Can you even make your own missions?? Can you navigate after the stars? Does it play in realtime? Do you have a compass? A watch? A detailed map?

I have to go take my pills soon

I think when it comes down to it im just jealous that Bf got all the credit ofp should have gotten.

Oh, the rest of the games are rather good, not counting ghost recon <span id='postcolor'>

You cant compare OFP with BF1942 because OFP is the clear winner, however they both offer something different

[hovmand 0]

[whine]Yeah but as i said im just pissed off that ofp dont get enough credit[/whine]

[Whoami88 0]

Anyone find it out that in Ghost Recon, its called Ghost Recon, but theres ot one mission where you do reconing? (sp?)

Whoever was the military supervisor for GR had to be a 9 year old. Ex. In mission you have to stop a tank column from basically leaving your area. This giant offwensive consists of 2 tanks a couple infantry platoons.

...

PRetty Piss Poor offensive if you ask me

Brings me to another point. How come the lat missions you do the work of a small army? Ex. Take Moscow away from the Ultranationlist. THroughout the level theres like 64 guys and 3 BMPs. And they send a 6 man sf unit to kill them all. Ya good luck with that.

And the tanks blow total ass in GR, i had one tank point its gun at a BMP for like 30 secs till it fired and the bmp just sat there...

[CanVagabond 0]

7--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Whoami88 @ Jan. 20 2003,137)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Anyone find it out that in Ghost Recon, its called Ghost Recon, but theres ot one mission where you do reconing? (sp?)

Whoever was the military supervisor for GR had to be a 9 year old. Ex. In mission you have to stop a tank column from basically leaving your area. This giant offwensive consists of 2 tanks a couple infantry platoons.

...

PRetty Piss Poor offensive if you ask me

Brings me to another point. How come the lat missions you do the work of a small army?  Ex. Take Moscow away from the Ultranationlist.  THroughout the level theres like 64 guys and 3 BMPs.  And they send a 6 man sf unit to kill them all. Ya good luck with that.

And the tanks blow total ass in GR, i had one tank point its gun at a BMP for like 30 secs till it fired and the bmp just sat there...<span id='postcolor'>

You ARE the recon force. It doesn't mean you go in, sit tight, and spy around with the Binoculars. You are a Recon unit(from what I understand) in the Marine sense(I might be completly wrong here) where you are classified as Recon as you are lightly armed. Correct? No?

Tanks are badly done in the game, should have left them out in my opinion.

Nothing wrong with sending in an advance SF unit to clear the path to Moscow. I prefer to imagine that the Marines(I think they were supposed to be in the are of operations, or someone was in the briefings)(EDIT, I'll finish this sentance ) move in after the mission. Besides, you punched a hole towards the capitol building, not clear out the WHOLE city. Again though, the mission could have been done better.

Personally, Redstorm made a pretty cool game lacking in two things, believability(sp?) in some missions and replayability(again, ap?) for the game.

Though that's true of every game.

[jakerod 254]

Im prety sure in ghost recon they are some of the Best Green Berets the army has.... i read that either on the box or in the book it said something like "The ghosts are made up of highly trained green berets" or something.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

BF1942 looks and plays like a damn cartoon. Do I really have to go back over the basketball-ballistics of the cannon shells?

[action man 0]

What about Hidden and Dangerous! in it's day in my opinion it was the best game of it's kind! Playing the game you really felt you were in the forties period it had great atmosphere! Last year a newer version of the game came out called Hidden and Dangerous deluxe.Their are no bugs in this game and the graphics are a little bit better,their is also and editor with this version.Still it can't compete with OFP

[Guest BratZ]

I have played all mentioned except Vietcong.I am of the older crowd and I enjoy BF1942,granted I havent played it in a while (since around 1.2 patch)

Each game has its up and downs,BF1942 doesnt have the realism that OFP has, but it does have some fun multiplayer qualities,None can match the realism that OFP is based around,If OFP had tailgunners (and movable carriers) it could simulate the same BF1942 gameplay

[CanVagabond 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (BratZ @ Jan. 20 2003,15:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If OFP had tailgunners (and movable carriers) it could simulate the same BF1942 gameplay<span id='postcolor'>

Or if more than one weapon could fire from a vehicle at a time?

I hope we get to see Blackhawks with TWO gunners, and passangers able to fire out the door.

[HellToupee 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ Jan. 19 2003,18:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">VIETCONG: fine but needs some change. if i can go in and get 10 kills as sniper before my first death, it has serious problem to be dealt with nice job with numerous bushes and etc., but hope some bugs(such as when crawling near some bushes make you face upwards) are fixed. nice no brainer FPS with a bit more stuff to make kiddies go nuts.<span id='postcolor'>

heh u can do that as sniper in ofp aswell its that easy as sniper, with ofps larger areas endless places to hide. As for FPS being kiddie thats far wrong, many fps's have a very mature audience, my rtcw for example im second youngest at 17 in our squad/group/team clan wat ever with the oldest guy a media designer round 30

[HellToupee 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (You_looking_at_me? @ Jan. 20 2003,03:05)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I dunno what OFP players have against BF42. It seems to me that lots of the community "hate" it simply becuase its the "done" thing.

I know it isnt realistic (although I find its flight model far more realistic) But I find it tremendous fun. The firefights are more intensive and more dynamic than anything Ive yet seen in OFP and legendery moments happen in every game<span id='postcolor'>

its flight model i find is less realistic, u cant lose speed in turns only by going up u can, in ofp u put ur plane in a turn it loses speed, the bf42 flight model is less realistic but alot easyer.

[walker 0]

Hi all

I have tried most of the games mentioned.

Most are as good or better at arcade style MP but they are stuck producing the same old same old and none of them have a future. They are quiet backwater prisons for imaginationaly chalenged.

Only the tribes engine can do anything like the same land areas of OFP that will allow players the degree of freedom

None come close to OFP for realism.

None have the ability to script up to OFP standards or the quality or number of addons or the massive island creation posibilities.

You have none of you seen what OFP can do.

Sometimes I think even BIS do not know what could be done with the OFP engine and its attendant programs.

Oh the graphics will get improved but that is just eye candy and net code will improve (Not the real bottleneck that is the current Internet structure but so many who do not understand cant see what will be done in the near future)

It is the underlying concept of the engine that makes OFP the future of all 3D games you just need a little imagination thank god there are so many good programmers and MOD makers in the OFP community who can see the possibilities.

Kind Regards walker

[ralphwiggum 6]

back on BF1942:

when the news came out about BF, it was labeled as something that realistically depicts the era and battlefield. so they basically let me shoot at them by climing to be something they are not.

as walker said, OFP gives a variety of tools that enable wildest things. CoC is a good example. it incorporates RTS based on a FPS game. now who can claim that with such pride?

also, default script support and editor makes OFP something beyond normal game. i can set up certain scenarios to train, either by myself or with others on MP, and change it as needed. considering the area of operation, the possibilities of training team tactics is quite large.

and not to mention all those addon makers

[CanVagabond 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ Jan. 20 2003,18:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">as walker said, OFP gives a variety of tools that enable wildest things. CoC is a good example. it incorporates RTS based on a FPS game. now who can claim that with such pride?<span id='postcolor'>

Battlezone?

Never thought about Tribes being OpFlash's competition though.