The Iraq Thread

[FallenPaladin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FallenPaladin @ Mar. 06 2003,00:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It`s all because of T.B.A.  

<span id='postcolor'>

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!!

Now that I`m awake I figured out Bush`s evil masterplan! It`s all distraction. He`s not after the Iraq or North Korea! He`s after beer and that means he`ll come after us: Germany!!!

He should know that I`ll react with preemptive strikes if my beer supply is threatened!!!

[mr. Duck 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And I´m talking about the Comanche - Apache combination<span id='postcolor'>

Are you sure about the Comanche? Wasn't that still a prototype? Sorry man, me is a bit of a nit-picker

[Balschoiw 0]

Sorry I meant Kiowa. OFP and it´s side effects

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FallenPaladin @ Mar. 06 2003,13:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Now that I`m awake I figured out Bush`s evil masterplan! It`s all distraction. He`s not after the Iraq or North Korea! He`s after beer and that means he`ll come after us: Germany!!!  <span id='postcolor'>

I think you're on to something big!

[Jinef 2]

Maybe some of your relatives were the people who accidentally killed six of my friends who were in an APC?

anyway. I just got this from my dad (he's a Yank) and it is really quite funny. As you can guess i sent him an irritated reply about how i'm an American hater and if my America hater

friends found i had this on my computer i would be kicked from the cult of evil!

What is an American

An American is.

You probably missed it in the rush of news last week, but

there was actually a report that someone in Pakistan had

published in a newspaper an offer of a reward to anyone

who killed an American, any American.

So an Australian dentist wrote the following to let everyone

know what an American is, so they would know when they

found one:

An American is English, or French, or Italian, Irish, German,

Spanish, Polish, Russian or Greek. An American may also be

Canadian, Mexican, African, Indian, Chinese, Japanese,

Korean, Australian, Iranian, Asian, or Arab, or Pakistani, or

Afghan. An American may also be a Cherokee, Osage,

Blackfoot, Navaho, Apache, Seminole or one of the many

other tribes known as native Americans.

An American is Christian, or he could be Jewish, or

Buddhist, or Muslim. In fact, there are more Muslims in

America than in Afghanistan. The only difference is that in

America they are free to worship as each of them chooses.

An American is also free to believe in no religion. For that

he will answer only to God, not to the government, or to

armed thugs claiming to speak for the government and for God.

An American is from the most prosperous land in the

history of the world. The root of that prosperity can be

found in the Declaration of Independence, which recognizes

the God given right of each person the pursuit of happiness.

An American is generous. Americans have helped out just

about every other nation in the world in their time of need.

When the Soviet army overran Afghanistan 20 years

ago, Americans came with arms and supplies to enable the

people to win back their country. As of the morning of

September 11, Americans had given more than any other

nation to the poor in Afghanistan.

Americans welcome the best, the best products, the best

books, the best music, the best food, the best athletes. But

they also welcome the least.

The national symbol of America, The Statue of Liberty,

welcomes your tired and your poor, the wretched refuse of

your teeming shores, the homeless, tempest tossed. These

in fact are the people who built America. Some of them

were working in the Twin Towers the morning of September 11, 2002

earning a better life for their families. I've been told

that the World Trade Center victims were from at least 30

other countries, cultures, and first languages, including

those that aided and abetted the terrorists.

So you can try to kill an American if you must. Hitler did. So

did General Tojo, and Stalin, and Mao Tse-Tung, and every

bloodthirsty tyrant in the history of the world. But, in doing

so you would just be killing yourself. Because Americans are

not a particular people from a particular place. They are the

embodiment of the human spirit of freedom. Everyone who

holds to that spirit, everywhere, is an American.

Pass this around the World.

And i just have.

[theavonlady 2]

/*sniffle* - kisses us passport

[Jinef 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Mar. 06 2003,00:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The British on the other hand were a pain in the ass dealing with<span id='postcolor'>

Oi!

What's up with that then.

Just cause you guys can't take your curry!

[Jinef 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Mar. 06 2003,00:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No, if you really didn't want to kill the president you would've developed the equipment necessary to destroy the limo when nobody was in it.<span id='postcolor'>

Okay so how about a small SAS team then, they stop the car with one of those spiky things then force everyone out. They then disable the limo with explosive and dissapear.

So why don't the US do that then?

Why use a big expensive bomb when you can use your fucking amazing special forces which are the best and you keep bragging about?

[Balschoiw 0]

possible date for Iraq war to begin:

13th of march. Large bomb runs over 3 or 4 days will prepare grounds for the land invasion from Kuwait on

17 th of march.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Balschoiw @ Mar. 06 2003,14:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">13th of march. Large bomb runs over 3 or 4 days will prepare grounds for the land invasion from Kuwait on 17 th of march.<span id='postcolor'>

Yeh, yeh. We've heard that days ago here.

Another opinion says add another two weeks.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Jinef @ Mar. 06 2003,12:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Mar. 06 2003,00:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The British on the other hand were a pain in the ass dealing with<span id='postcolor'>

Oi!  

What's up with that then.<span id='postcolor'>

I had a lot of dealings with British soldiers and officers in Kosovo and I did not like their organization one bit. The officers treated the enlisted men like animals disciplining them all the time in a most humiliating manner. The basic cycle was that the enlisted men would get some liquor, get drunk and start to brawl. Then the officers (who gave them the liquor in the first place) would punish them. The enlisted men (often young kids 17-18 years old) were treated as animals and behaved as such. There were so many stupid limitations imposed on them. They were for instance not allowed to visit local restaurants and cafés while enlisted men from other nations were.

On the other hand, they were excellent soldiers. No matter how appaling the organization looks, it works superbly. Its damn impressive watching them accomplish things with a minimum of resources.

While I wouldn't care too much to socialize with them I would not hesitate to trust having them by my side in combat.

[llauma 0]

How many american civilians would you be prepared to sacrify to eliminate any possible WMD's in Iraq???

How many Iraqi civilians do you think would die in a possible american attack?

...I hope that those both questions have the same answer.

[mr. Duck 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Balschoiw @ Mar. 06 2003,13:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">possible date for Iraq war to begin:

13th of march. Large bomb runs over 3 or 4 days will prepare grounds for the land invasion from Kuwait on

17 th of march.<span id='postcolor'>

? It's my birthday then, can't they wait longer? Consider it as me birthday gift, no war!

[stgn 39]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Llauma @ Mar. 06 2003,14:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">How many american civilians would you be prepared to sacrify to eliminate any possible WMD's in Iraq???

How many Iraqi civilians do you think would die in a possible american attack?

...I hope that those both questions have the same answer.<span id='postcolor'>

whats a WMD

STGN

[llauma 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (STGN @ Mar. 06 2003,16:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Llauma @ Mar. 06 2003,14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">How many american civilians would you be prepared to sacrify to eliminate any possible WMD's in Iraq???

How many Iraqi civilians do you think would die in a possible american attack?

...I hope that those both questions have the same answer.<span id='postcolor'>

whats a WMD <!--emo&

STGN<span id='postcolor'>

Weapon of Mass Destruction

[Necromancer- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Jinef @ Mar. 06 2003,12:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You probably missed it in the rush of news last week, but

there was actually a report that someone in Pakistan had

published in a newspaper an offer of a reward to anyone

who killed an American, any American.

So an Australian dentist wrote the following to let everyone

know what an American is, so they would know when they

found one:

An American is English, or French, or Italian, Irish, German,

Spanish, Polish, Russian or Greek. An American may also be

Canadian, Mexican, African, Indian, Chinese, Japanese,

Korean, Australian, Iranian, Asian, or Arab, or Pakistani, or

Afghan. An American may also be a Cherokee, Osage,

Blackfoot, Navaho, Apache, Seminole or one of the many

other tribes known as native Americans.

An American is Christian, or he could be Jewish, or

Buddhist, or Muslim. In fact, there are more Muslims in

America than in Afghanistan. The only difference is that in

America they are free to worship as each of them chooses.

An American is also free to believe in no religion. For that

he will answer only to God, not to the government, or to

armed thugs claiming to speak for the government and for God.

An American is from the most prosperous land in the

history of the world. The root of that prosperity can be

found in the Declaration of Independence, which recognizes

the God given right of each person the pursuit of happiness.

An American is generous. Americans have helped out just

about every other nation in the world in their time of need.

When the Soviet army overran Afghanistan 20 years

ago, Americans came with arms and supplies to enable the

people to win back their country. As of the morning of

September 11, Americans had given more than any other

nation to the poor in Afghanistan.

Americans welcome the best, the best products, the best

books, the best music, the best food, the best athletes. But

they also welcome the least.

The national symbol of America, The Statue of Liberty,

welcomes your tired and your poor, the wretched refuse of

your teeming shores, the homeless, tempest tossed. These

in fact are the people who built America. Some of them

were working in the Twin Towers the morning of September 11, 2002

earning a better life for their families. I've been told

that the World Trade Center victims were from at least 30

other countries, cultures, and first languages, including

those that aided and abetted the terrorists.

So you can try to kill an American if you must. Hitler did. So

did General Tojo, and Stalin, and Mao Tse-Tung, and every

bloodthirsty tyrant in the history of the world. But, in doing

so you would just be killing yourself. Because Americans are

not a particular people from a particular place. They are the

embodiment of the human spirit of freedom. Everyone who

holds to that spirit, everywhere, is an American.

Pass this around the World.

And i just have.<span id='postcolor'>

*sniff*

That just made me cry.

[E6Hotel 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Mar. 06 2003,1103)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Countless times. For instance in Sweden, one of the more direct times USA threatened with ending diplomatic relations if the Swedish government did not interfere and stop the the publishing of the scientology bible. The Swedish supreme court ruled that the publication of the bible was ok. After US pressure the government intervened and made an (probably unconstitutional) executive decission to stop the publishment of the book.<span id='postcolor'>

This is so screwy that I felt compelled to check it out.  Turns out the point of contention was violation of international copyright, which the Swedish court apparently agreed with, fining the violator 50,000 krona.  In any case, this clearly points out the hazards of Scientology:

Scientology = Travolta comeback = "Battlefield Earth"

Semper Fi

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (E6Hotel @ Mar. 06 2003,19:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Mar. 06 2003,1103)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Countless times. For instance in Sweden, one of the more direct times USA threatened with ending diplomatic relations if the Swedish government did not interfere and stop the the publishing of the scientology bible. The Swedish supreme court ruled that the publication of the bible was ok. After US pressure the government intervened and made an (probably unconstitutional) executive decission to stop the publishment of the book.<span id='postcolor'>

This is so screwy that I felt compelled to check it out.  Turns out the point of contention was violation of international copyright, which the Swedish court apparently agreed with, fining the violator 50,000 krona.  In any case, this clearly points out the hazards of Scientology:

Scientology = Travolta comeback = "Battlefield Earth"

Semper Fi<span id='postcolor'>

In the first iteration, the supreme court ruled in favour of Zenon (the guy who wanted to publish it) but the government overturned the decision (in the regeringsrätt - don't know the word in english, perhaps constitutinal court" after some serious diplomatic pressure from the US. It was quite a scandal here and the minister of Justice (attorny general) had to resign.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

But Zenon did more that we in The Netherlands did. He posted the NOTs, yet higher course material, and, according to Scientology, yet more secret.

Moreover, when Scientology sued him, he deftly used the Swedish "offentlighetsprincipen". This constitutional principle states that every citizen has the right to access all documents that are in the possession of the state, unless these documents contain state secrets or exclusively relate to private matters. Citizens may request copies of all government documents. Zenon filed the OTs and NOTs with the court and Parliament (riksdagen), thus ensuring that anybody could access these files or could ask for a copy for a small administrative fee. The result? The material that Scientology had chased with such vehemence - raiding providers, organisations and individuals over them; threatening, intimidating and suing people over them - these documents were suddenly legally available, official stamps and all.

Scientology got furious and managed to incite the US - the cult's claws reach far - to start a diplomatic row with Sweden over this constitutional offentlighetsprincipen. The US even threatened Sweden with a trade boycott if Sweden didn't stop its official distribution of the OTs and NOTs. After three years of diplomatic and legal bickering, Sweden limited the constitution that they took such great pride in: from then on, unpublished material from third parties was no longer covered by the offentlighetsprincipen.

Meanwhile, Zenon moved to Amsterdam. We became lovers. "We were brought together by Scientology" became our standard joke.

IN SEPTEMBER 1998 the ruling in Scientology's case against Zenon was given: Zenon lost on most counts. The court ruled that neither the OTs nor the NOTs were legally published, and thus nobody was allowed to possess private copies, nor could one quote from them. They ordered Zenon to pay Scientology some 2000 USD damages and more than 150,000 USD in legal fees. Scientology had claimed almost two million dollars in legal fees, a ridiculously high amount for Swedish standards, but even this 150,000 dollars was unprecedented. Hardly surprising, Zenon couldn't pay that money, and Scientology confiscated most of his salary in The Netherlands. For more than two years he has been living under the level of minimum subsistence; and yet, what Scientology confiscates every month doesn't even cover the legal interest on the main sum. The most cynical aspect of all this is that afterwards, in my case the Dutch court ruled that the OTs should be regarded as having been legally published, a ruling that was to a great extent based on testimonies delivered - guess - in Zenon's court case.

<span id='postcolor'>

src

Edit: Correction. The government made the documents classified to circumvent offentlighetsprincipen. The constitutional court then later nullified that decision judging that it was unconstitutional.

source

The case is still apparently being processed.

[Guest]

On the issue of USA forcing its agenda: Today USA demanded from several countries, including Sweden to kick out Iraqi diplomats. Utrikesdepartementet (our state department) have not made any official comment yet but inofficially they said that Sweden would follow the Wien agreement on treatment of forgin diplomats which does not include kicking them out of the country on the request of a thrid party.

source

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Balschoiw @ Mar. 06 2003,13:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">possible date for Iraq war to begin:

13th of march. Large bomb runs over 3 or 4 days will prepare grounds for the land invasion from Kuwait on

17 th of march.<span id='postcolor'>

sounds like my father gardenning

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

a little off topic there

-man this thread moves at a pace

I have to hand it to Jinef- hes gone from virtually being Bin Ladens right hand man to eliciting sentimental tears from various americans in a single post. Heh

I have been a conditional supporter of a war against Iraq.

Im still of the opinion that war with Iraq -can- overall be 'a good thing' .

If that sounds simplistic it is no more so than the assertion that such a war is overall a bad thing.

Try telling that to the Iraqis who wrote those letters

(assuming for a moment that they are not a heinous propaganda invention)

or those in my local kebab shop whose relatives they believe to be in danger( who are certainly not a heinous propaganda invention.)

Or the many (to be conservative) in Iraq itself who live in daily fear of their own government.

But my support is only given provided that  -the war is conducted in a certain way -and that certain things do happen (such as eg a major humanitarian effort after and during conflict) -that certain other things do not happen (such as eg Turkish occupation of northern 'Kurdish' Iraq)

-that the war will not significantly increase global instability.

This is not such a simple issue. War is bad but psychotic murderous governments like Iraq are also bad.

Especially if they have in the past threatened the stability of their region, and still do so to an arguable extent.

What if a relatively short war can replace such a government with a better (obviously less than perfect one?)

-would it not increase regional stability (over the post-war long term)?

Would it prevent more pain in the long term to remove the regime now?

Where does it end and how many other governments are open

to such intervention?

What is it worth to stop another generation growing up in such a messed up society as Saddams Iraq- not to mention visibly enforcing UN resolutions and thus lending them meaning

with such resolution?

Does such an intervention not call into question the

worth of the UN and the whole international power-balance as it now is?

-Or has such a balance already been shattered in the post sept.11 world?

-what about other UN violators?

-is the UN even a valid institution?

War IS a means of effecting change. Not a good one but sometimes (very occasionally)the alternatives are not worthy of the name .If a certain major change is felt to be urgently necessary there are occasions in which war and/or the threat of war is the only real option.

Its a sad fact.

But the drive towards this war seems ill thought out and a little dangerous to many people. Why exactly are 'we' going to war with Iraq?

Is it simply to enforce UN security resolutions? Why only Iraq?

Is it partly to free an oppressed people? What about the other oppressed peoples of the world?

For one thing a significant reason as i have pointed out before is that 'we' CAN go to war with Iraq. A moderately large force

can i believe relativly easily topple that government. There is no nuclear deterrent. Its quite easy to make a large change

in Iraq quite quickly. And that change should be largely positive. I believe in likelyhood it would be (though of course there are dangers)

I think that a war against Iraq could effect a positive change, especially with a UN resolution. But that is counter

balanced by a seemingly ever growing number of concievable negative consequences.

And what right does the west (specifically the US) have to go around changing regimes as it sees fit?

But what right do such regimes as Iraqs (highly repressive and

with a past of conducting extremely bloody wars+ developing prohibited weapons) have to exist in the first place

with all of the horrific consequences of their actions?

Must their present existence be accepted? On one level yes

But surely we should all work to destroy such govenments?

Or must we let events slowly take their course and hope that free trade will cause a gradual change to occur ( perhaps condemning generations to live in fear of their own government)

I am still divided on this issue. War is a big word (ironically) it gets people very worked up and rightly so

but many people seem a little bit blind to the many kinds of war. Saddam has been inflicting the slow death of his personal war on his nation for decades. It is not that he doesnt care for the suffering of his people, it is that

he uses it to his advantage.

But

There has been no new UN resolution for nations to rally behind , there has been no sufficient proof of a cause for war in the minds of people globally

, there has been no proof of immediate threat presented except the most tenous of links with Al-Quada.

The US has not proven its case legally for war or provided a weighty

enough body of circumstantial evidence to dispense with the

doubt in the minds of the majority of people who know anything of this issue. The UK is involved and going into war with a doubting public is a bad move (though not definatly wrong)

I believe there are good but imperfect humanitarian reasons to go into Iraq, they have not been Bushs primary motives

But that is not necessarily relevant

.However, they come at a great possible cost in international stability etc -a cost that now looks to me almost overwhelming

I am not happy with conditions in which this war would be conducted. I am not happy with the possible global picture regarding international stability post Gulf War 2.

I am not happy with the UN ,i think it is a deeply flawed organisation.

But it is the best there is at moment when it comes to international agreements. etc and this would threaten its legitimacy without providing an alternative.

If the US UK +whoever goes in i will wish them (us) well and pray

(in an atheist style) that nothing worse comes as a result but

even though i would welcome the ousting of Saddam

i am not enthusiastic (less than i have been).

"Part of the gung-ho, John Wayne mentality."

I resent that

heheh

enough

[Necromancer- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ Mar. 06 2003,20:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Balschoiw @ Mar. 06 2003,13:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">possible date for Iraq war to begin:

13th of march. Large bomb runs over 3 or 4 days will prepare grounds for the land invasion from Kuwait on

17 th of march.<span id='postcolor'>

sounds like my father gardenning<span id='postcolor'>

So your father has a personal minefield in his backyard??

Very useful against home muggers though.

[FSPilot 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">In Sweden if I threaten to kill you, its a crime. And I can be sent to court for it. If I threaten to ruin your life, get you fired and generally mess you up, its also a crime. I always thought these were crimes in most western societys.<span id='postcolor'>

They might very well be, but I just don't know about it.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">They ARE effected ! FS you keep winding like a snake but you´re still trapped with your false logic or I´d better say "Not - existing" logic.<span id='postcolor'>

Yeah, that makes lots of sense. Nitpick one word I said and say I don't have logic.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It´s not about proving my points which is btw completely bullshit as I have been to the region lately. You may have forgotten that. I have seen what Iran is doing right now and I have talked to people living there. My knowledge about the actual Iraq and around situation is in fact 2000 percent more accurate than yours FS. <span id='postcolor'>

Have you presented some other experience pertaining to the US targetting civilians? I know you've just been to Turkey, but what does that have to do with the US targetting civilians.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">but you don´t believe a NEUTRAL UN soldier that has been in the region lately ? Guess what ? Tell me who is wrong or ignorant now. It´s certainly not me. I´m getting my money for being a NEUTRAL UN member. But in your opinion this doesn´t mean shit.<span id='postcolor'>

Quit going off on a tangent about this. I didn't say your experiences don't mean anything. You produced one incident thats supposed to convince us that the US targets civilians when in reality it was a few soldiers breaking ROE who were then chastised for it.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Is this so hard to understand ? You can kill civillians by shooting their head off or you take the soft method and cut them from food , water, electricity and medical treatment. This will kill them in the long term but as you have not shot them you don´t have blood on your hands. This is what I call the humanity of war. You cut the people you pretend to "free" from basic life support and yes you kill some of them with these measures. As Denoir already said the military remains unimpressed as they have their own sources of energy , food, water, etc.<span id='postcolor'>

Ok, but how do you explain the US dropping food on Afghanistan? Yes it's obvious that we sometimes lay siege to cities, but who doesn't. We're not trying to kill civilians at all.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You should listen a bit more to the things we tell you. This would save us from repeating us over and over again only to ensure you did get everything and don´t forget it for your next post.<span id='postcolor'>

I could say the same thing to you.

And I understood what you said. But people were trying to take demoralizing civilians and making it look like we're trying to kill them.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So why do you intentionally bomb civillian infrastructure ?

Military abused civillian installations ? LOL You better check your own army to find out that they have their own infrastructure when it comes to balls. So has Iraq.<span id='postcolor'>

We bomb the civilian infrastructure. Key word there. Infrastructure. Not the civilians themselves. We go to great lengths to reduce the amount of civilian casualties.

And don't tell me to check my own army, I grew up on air force bases.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You don´t even know what I am talking about. I am talking about 3 tanks dug in at the Sharky-beach shooting into Moga undirected once a week to show the somalis that the US is still there. And I´m talking about the Comanche [kiowa] - Apache combination picking firing sources town and responding undirected gunfire with hellfire rockets. This has NEVER been investigated by the US. It has been investigated by UN but US forces simply said it didn´t happen. I have seen it and I know it did happen. Your statement is false from the beginning to it´s end.<span id='postcolor'>

Now I'd like to see some type of source about this, and yes that was what I was talking about. I heard that the soldiers involved were court martialled for what they did. It's not that I don't trust you Balschoiw, but when you tell me that my military shot civilians, completely against their ROE simply to let them know that "we're there" you can't expect me to take your word for it.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Maybe some of your relatives were the people who accidentally killed six of my friends who were in an APC?<span id='postcolor'>

He was a cargo pilot.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Okay so how about a small SAS team then, they stop the car with one of those spiky things then force everyone out. They then disable the limo with explosive and dissapear.

So why don't the US do that then?<span id='postcolor'>

Because limos are low on our frag sheet.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why use a big expensive bomb when you can use your fucking amazing special forces which are the best and you keep bragging about?<span id='postcolor'>

I don't think I ever bragged about our special forces. But like I've said we don't usually target a limo, but the people inside it.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">How many american civilians would you be prepared to sacrify to eliminate any possible WMD's in Iraq???

How many Iraqi civilians do you think would die in a possible american attack?<span id='postcolor'>

How many Iraqi civilians will die, in addition to the 1.5 million that already have, as a result of Saddams rule?

How many US civilians will die if we don't get rid of Saddam's WMDs?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">? It's my birthday then, can't they wait longer? Consider it as me birthday gift, no war! <span id='postcolor'>

Hey no complaining, my birthday is September 15th. I was planning on a weekend-long airshow. I can't and wont complain either though, others had it worse than me.

[Akira 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ Mar. 06 2003,09:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"Not when we make explicit attempts to strike when the number of people in the building is as low as possible."

You mean like at the WTC when terrorists didnt strike at the most busiest hour?<span id='postcolor'>

Actually they did.

They struck at about 8 o clock when the WTC and the subway under it are at its busiest, an estimated 50K daily.

[FSPilot 0]

Not only that, but they actually used innocent civilians as a weapon.