Map filename convention

[terox 316]

If you do not want to read all the posts, then goto page 10

<span style='color:red'><span style='font-size:15pt;line-height:100%'>SEE Page 10 for SUMMARY OF POSTS SO FAR</span></span>

This will give a brief summary as to what has or hasnt been agreed

This topic started in another thread about dedicated servers and addons

Ok, we have all been on servers and tried to hunt through hundreds of maps looking for the one we want, but being unable to find it, due to clutter or renamed in a slightly different way and even end up downloading the same map, due to a slight filename change

Because I think it would be really nice to have an internationally recognised system for naming maps, i Hope the moderators here dont mind me starting this thread up.

I will try to post a link to this thread on Every "Dedicated Server's" webpage and related sites.

If you could all do the same to help me with this, then we should be able to all agree on a Map file name template within a relatively short period of time

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Here is what I propose

<span style='font-size:15pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:darkred'>Template</span></span>

<span style='color:red'>Addon Required?</span> <span style='color:blue'>Map Type</span> <span style='color:red'>(Map Player Limit)</span> <span style='color:blue'>Map Name</span> <span style='color:red'>(Game Version & Map version)</span>

<span style='font-size:15pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:darkred'>Example</span></span>

<span style='color:red'>@</span> <span style='color:blue'>ctf</span> <span style='color:red'>(32)</span> <span style='color:blue'>OneRoad</span> <span style='color:red'>(1.90 v1)</span>   .noe.pbo

Here is a breakdown on each group

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<span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:red'>@</span></span>

If used this denotes that the map requires an ADDON

This if recognised internationally will stop voted in admins from loading addon maps by accident causing an auto kick of some players from the server

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<span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:blue'>(Map Type)</span></span>

Use following abbreviations

a&d = Attack & defend

c&h = Capture & Hold

coop = Cooperative

ctf = Capture the flag

dm = deathmatch

tdm = team death match

ff = flag fight

tff = team flag fight

rc = race (Eg SW Race or would rac be better?)

rts = real time strategy

misc = miscellaneous (anything not covered by above abbreviations)

Apologies if i missed a map type, Im sure someone will point it out

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<span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:red'>(Map Player Limit)</span></span>

Not 2-30 etc, just the limit 30

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<span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:blue'>Map Name</span></span>

Doesnt really matter what it is, or its length

Place Sqd name here if required also

and if it is an official league map, place the league tag here also <span style='color:red'>(amended following later post)</span>

example for Euroleague map

<span style='color:blue'>ctf (20) efl everonIII (1.90 v1)</span>

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<span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:red'>(Game Version & Map version)</span></span>

Game Version

Initially using the game version it was made for,

However, every time a new game patch is released, it is then changed to the latest version after testing on the newer version. This would immensley help admin staff on dedicated servers to watch over the smooth transition of maps to newer game versions

Map Version

If its in BETA, then use Beta 1.0 etc

If its out of Beta, then use v1.3 or simply dont have a map version if its the final release

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<span style='font-size:15pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:darkred'>Miscellaneous Guidelines</span></span>

1) Use smaller case for everything (This is to do with Linux servers), but if we all do it, then every server will have exactly the same

2) Leave a space between groups

This help to give continuity in listings, (having 1 map name without a space between Map type and player limit, places it in a different position to one with spaces)

3) Optional

This is just to help organise map listings

Any BIS Maps simply leave as they are and put (bis) infront of the filename

Important

Renaming BIS standard maps causes problems when installing game patches, if the original filename is not present, the installation is aborted. To get round this, simply create a folder within your server's "MPMissions" folder and copy the originals into it, prior to changing the mpmissions filename. Then when you do come to install a new patch, simply copy them back into the MPMissions folder temporarily

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<span style='font-size:15pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:darkred'>Reason for Group Order</span></span>

1) If the @ addon is used initially, then every map that requires an addon will be grouped together, and if the convention is followed exactly, within the addons grouping, each map will be subgrouped by map type

(Addons really need to be grouped together)

2) Map type, this should preceed Player limit, if not then we will have a mix n match of maptypes and the list in the map selection screen will become disorganised

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So thats the idea in full and the reasons behind it.

<span style='font-size:15pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:darkred'>After it has been well discussed, i will repost in this thread what seems to be the most agreed on filename convention</span></span>

The topic has also been started on OFPEC

<span style='font-size:15pt;line-height:100%'>OFPEC Thread link</span>

[Skunk Monkey 0]

SES server map naming system

(Type)(players)(addon if needed)(map maker)(map name)

Type

C0 - Coop

TDM - Team Deathmatch

DM - Death Match

CH - Capture and hold

RC - Race (yes we have about 15 races)

CT - CTF

TFF - Tam Flag Fight

coa - coop addon

Eg

co12DC_Intervention.noe.pbo

coa18DC_Easy Path(Addons).noe.pbo

My only concern with this system is not all my maps are Linux compatable names - But I'm working on it

This system is almost identical to Vetserver Naming System, and we would be happy to join any other servers with Joint Addon-Packs and map-naming systems if it was a community-wide system - I see the bigger benifs of this.

[Itchy 0]

Just please don't settle on spaces in the map names. I'd change any spaces with underscores, and that will make life easier.

[terox 316]

Why do you want to use underscores instead of spaces, to split the groups up.??

[Itchy 0]

Spaces in file names and linux don't get along too well.

[kegetys 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Itchy @ Nov. 27 2002,19:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Spaces in file names and linux don't get along too well.<span id='postcolor'>

Um.. and why not? spaces work fine at least for ext2 and ext3 filesystems. Im not sure about that @ char though.

[terox 316]

Zeus, our Linux test server doesnt seem to have problems with spaces in the map filename either.

I believe spaces lead to clarity whereas Underscores lead to clutter

I have added "rc" = Race to Map Types, or would "rac" be better

Another comment on a different forum was made about the inclusions of League maps

I agree with the comments made that League maps need to be distinguished in some way.

But how to do it

Example A (For Euro Flaspoint league Map)

ctf (24) efl everonIII (1.9 v1)

or

Example B

efl ctf (24) everonIII (1.9 v1)

It would look better and be easier to find if the complete filename was preceded with the league tag.

However

If you say have 8 different leagues, then this would create and extra 8 map groupings

1 for each league

Maps by map type

and the addons group

So for simplicity i believe the better way is to have the league tag after the player limit, within the map name itself

(So for now I have amended the initial post with that in mind)

[joltan 0]

Keep the tag short and simple - that way you can still read the actual map name (and not only the tag and player number) in the map selection.

Do not try to solve everything with the tag or it will become ilegible and useless. The tag only helps when you have enough maps of any type to make the second sorting - by player number - actually happen. If you have only 3-5 maps of each kind and in some types there's only 1 or 2 then the player number will become useless as you have to scann through all different tags to find a map with enough players.

I agree with you - league names should belong to the name, as the map still belongs to a more general kind like CTF or DM.

Reduce the number of different tags to 5 or 6 - not more. Else you run into the above mentioned sorting problems. Only differenciate game types that are easy to destinguish. For example the difference between "capture and hold" and "attack and defense" is (if it exists at all) not straight forward for everybody - put them together and call it C&H or TDM - people will more or less know what the map is about and be happy.

Map version numbers in mission names would cause problems - when there's a new version for a map the old version has to be deleted manually instead of being overwritten by the updated map. A mission should contain a version number in the briefing, but not in its name.

The game version is something that any server should decide for himself - I think its quite unnescessary as it puts a lot of strain on the admin, while maps causing problems can be removed from the server anytime anyways if there are problems (caused by a new patch or by bugs that might not have surfaced earlier).

Also the same as for map version numbers applies - the map has to be renamed everytime it gets updated - and if one admin doesn't follow the scheme with the server version, then players have to download the same map version again and again. And that just because server A ues just the map name, server B tested it for 1.88 and server C already for 1.90...

[Skunk Monkey 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Terox @ Nov. 27 2002,22:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I agree with the comments made that League maps need to be distinguished in some way.

But how to do it<span id='postcolor'>

Well Were are in TCZ ladder, and i leave all there map-names unchanged, otherwise people may think you have edited them if you are hosting a ladder-game.

I would only change them if the TCZ also did, save arguments over cheating when you beat someone

[whisperFFW06 0]

About addons required, there are numerous maps requiring minimal addons (editorUpgrade, editorUpdate 1.02), I don't think we should sort these maps with @ tag, only indicate that these addons are required on server in the MOTD banner. EditorXXX 1.02 are IMHO the minimal required. It will sort maps with no addons/minimal addon from maps really requiring addons

Whis'

[joltan 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (whisperFFW06 @ Nov. 28 2002,14:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I don't think we should sort these maps with @ tag, only indicate that these addons are required on server in the MOTD banner. EditorXXX 1.02 are IMHO the minimal required. It will sort maps with no addons/minimal addon from maps really requiring addons.<span id='postcolor'>

You can not expect everyone (especially not voted admins) to know all maps by hearth, and not everyone connecting for the first time to have even your so called 'basic' addons.

By using the addons tag as second or third part of the tag (like 'co@12...' or 'co12@') you gain the knowledge which maps use addons (one or a hundred doesn't make a difference if the user doesn't have them) and which use none at all. That leaves you the possibility to choose maps that  requires no addons on purpose when there's many non-regular players online. And it won't sort them completely apart but either grouped together by type or mixed completely.

[joltan 0]

Regarding the use of spaces or underscores in the name - I think the seperator (whichever) should only be used to seperate the complete tag (i.e. map type, number of players and addons tag together) from the map name. We want to be able to see as much of the mission name as posible in the map selection - adding unnescesary letters to the tag only reduces the amount of letters that are visible from the mission's name.

Same goes for the use of brackets - not needed - you can seperate the different parts of the tag easily enough, as they are hard to mix up - one consists of letters (like 'co' or 'ctf'), one is a number, and the next is a symbol (@). No matter what order you choose they will be easy to distinguish.

Player number always should be written with two digits (i.e. '09' instead of '9') to avoid sorting problems. (like 'co2...' being sorted after 'co15...').

[terox 316]

Ok its a little difficult to picture it on a forum, but try to imagine what the following looks like ingame

Its easier to scan through a listing like this

@ c&h (10) dragonlair (version etc etc)

@ c&h (18) crazyhorse (version etc etc)

@ c&h (20) ironmaiden (version etc etc)

@ c&h (22) stealth (version etc etc)

@ ctf (30) armourgeddon (version etc etc)

@ ctf (30) decisive (version etc etc)

@ tdm (32) widelyspread (version etc etc)

a&d (12) hearstopper (version etc etc)

c&h (16) breadbasket (version etc etc)

c&h (22) deliverence (version etc etc)

c&h (22) riverdance (version etc etc)

c&h (30) long way down (version etc etc)

c&h (30) Dragonlair (version etc etc)

ctf (14) my very long map name (version etc etc)

ctf (18) just another map (version etc etc)

ctf (22) hells fury (version etc etc)

tdm (12) bloodbatth (version etc etc)

tdm (18) apocolypse (version etc etc)

tdm (24) didnt know u cared (version etc etc)

tff (16) bongo drums (version etc etc)

than it is this way

a&d_12_hearstopper (version etc etc)

c&h@_10_ dragonlair (version etc etc)

c&h_16_breadbasket (version etc etc)

c&h@_18_crazyhorse (version etc etc)

c&h@_20_ironmaiden (version etc etc)

c&h_22_deliverence (version etc etc)

c&h_22_riverdance (version etc etc)

c&h@_22_stealth (version etc etc)

c&h_30_Dragonlair (version etc etc)

c&h_30_long way down (version etc etc)

ctf_14_my very long map name (version etc etc)

ctf_18_just another map (version etc etc)

ctf_22_hells fury (version etc etc)

ctf@_30_armourgeddon (version etc etc)

ctf@_30_decisive (version etc etc)

tdm_12_bloodbatth (version etc etc)

tdm_18_apocolypse (version etc etc)

tdm_24_didnt know u cared (version etc etc)

tdm@_32_widelyspread (version etc etc)

tff_16_bongo drums (version etc etc)

or this way

10_c&h@_dragonlair (version etc etc)

12_a&d_hearstopper (version etc etc)

12_tdm_bloodbatth (version etc etc)

14_ctf_my very long map name (version etc etc)

16_c&h_breadbasket (version etc etc)

16_tff_bongo drums (version etc etc)

18_c&h@_crazyhorse (version etc etc)

18_ctf_just another map (version etc etc)

18_tdm_apocolypse (version etc etc)

20_c&h@_ironmaiden (version etc etc)

22_c&h_deliverence (version etc etc)

22_c&h_riverdance (version etc etc)

22_c&h@_stealth (version etc etc)

22_ctf_hells fury (version etc etc)

24_tdm_didnt know u cared (version etc etc)

30_c&h_Dragonlair (version etc etc)

30_c&h_long way down (version etc etc)

30_ctf@_armourgeddon (version etc etc)

30_ctf@_decisive (version etc etc)

32_tdm@_widelyspread (version etc etc)

Reference Addon marker

If its not at the very start of the filename, it will easily be missed by a voted in admin, who may just mistake it as a fancy sign that the mapmaker used and attach no significance to it. Due to the fact that the maps listed above and below may not have ab @ in them

However if all the addon maps are grouped together (The only way to use this is to precede the name with @), then even those with no common sense, ie the type of player who wouldnt have a clue how to use a forum, would even ask the question.  

What is the @ for??

It would also stop admins loading maps that have addons by accident and kicking off half the players on the server without realising it

Underscores

Now that you can compare spaces with underscores, which gives more clarity?

Bear in mind this is even more distinctive ingame

Unable to see al filename

If you hover the mouse over the filename ingame, a small temporary text box opens displaying the filename in full

Here is what it looks like on Zeus (A linux server)

apart from the @ having no space between itself and ctf, you can now see how clear and readable it is

[Skunk Monkey 0]

Well i still think the most important sorting order is game type, not addon/no addon, but that is me. As I have stated before if a Community wide system ( or at least most of the top 10 servers, SES, Game Planet, Fraghaus, Stoners, SAS ....) is agreed SES will change our system, other than that we will keep our

(Type)(Players)(Author)(Addon)_(Name)

And work on removing capitals and spaces to keep Linux compatability.

Also you got your order wrong (see below)

a&d_12_hearstopper (version etc etc)

c&h@_10_ dragonlair (version etc etc)

c&h_16_breadbasket (version etc etc)

c&h@_18_crazyhorse (version etc etc)

c&h@_20_ironmaiden (version etc etc)

c&h_22_deliverence (version etc etc)

c&h_22_riverdance (version etc etc)

c&h@_22_stealth (version etc etc)

c&h_30_Dragonlair (version etc etc)

c&h_30_long way down (version etc etc)

ctf_14_my very long map name (version etc etc)

ctf_18_just another map (version etc etc)

ctf_22_hells fury (version etc etc)

ctf@_30_armourgeddon (version etc etc)

ctf@_30_decisive (version etc etc)

tdm_12_bloodbatth (version etc etc)

tdm_18_apocolypse (version etc etc)

tdm_24_didnt know u cared (version etc etc)

tdm@_32_widelyspread (version etc etc)

tff_16_bongo drums (version etc etc)

Would actually be

a&d_12_hearstopper (version etc etc)

c&h_16_breadbasket (version etc etc)

c&h_22_deliverence (version etc etc)

c&h_22_riverdance (version etc etc)

c&h_30_Dragonlair (version etc etc)

c&h_30_long way down (version etc etc)

c&h@_10_ dragonlair (version etc etc)

c&h@_18_crazyhorse (version etc etc)

c&h@_20_ironmaiden (version etc etc)

c&h@_22_stealth (version etc etc)

ctf_14_my very long map name (version etc etc)

ctf_18_just another map (version etc etc)

ctf_22_hells fury (version etc etc)

ctf@_30_armourgeddon (version etc etc)

ctf@_30_decisive (version etc etc)

tdm_12_bloodbatth (version etc etc)

tdm_18_apocolypse (version etc etc)

tdm_24_didnt know u cared (version etc etc)

tdm@_32_widelyspread (version etc etc)

tff_16_bongo drums (version etc etc)

So all addon maps are still grouped at the bottom of the game type,

Example on SES

co04

co08

co12

co24

coa04

coa06

Ect ....

So Far not many Server admins have put in there 2p worth - we need more admins to join this movement otherwise it is a non-starter .... We already use the same system we adopted from Vetserver when we started our Server, as it seemed the best system out there at the time (IMO).

[joltan 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Terox @ Nov. 28 2002,17:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ok its a little difficult to picture it on a forum, but try to imagine what the following looks like ingame<span id='postcolor'>

don't ya worry - btw: the second list would be sorted differently:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">a&d_12_hearstopper (version etc etc)

c&h_16_breadbasket (version etc etc)

c&h_22_deliverence (version etc etc)

c&h_22_riverdance (version etc etc)

c&h_30_Dragonlair (version etc etc)

c&h_30_long way down (version etc etc)

c&h@_10_ dragonlair (version etc etc)

c&h@_18_crazyhorse (version etc etc)

c&h@_20_ironmaiden (version etc etc)

c&h@_22_stealth (version etc etc)

ctf_14_my very long map name (version etc etc)

ctf_18_just another map (version etc etc)

ctf_22_hells fury (version etc etc)

ctf@_30_armourgeddon (version etc etc)

ctf@_30_decisive (version etc etc)

tdm_12_bloodbatth (version etc etc)

tdm_18_apocolypse (version etc etc)

tdm_24_didnt know u cared (version etc etc)

tdm@_32_widelyspread (version etc etc)

tff_16_bongo drums (version etc etc)<span id='postcolor'>

You see, we run a server that has only maps of one type - coop. At the moment we basically use the sorting scheme as above, but without a space between map type and the 'a' we use to designate addons maps. This has proven to be very intuitive and usefull - and even noobs learn quickly how to interpret it.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Reference Addon marker

If its not at the very start of the filename, it will easily be missed by a voted in admin, who may just mistake it as a fancy sign that the mapmaker used and attach no significance to it.

It would also stop admins loading maps that have addons by accident and kicking off half the players on the server without realising it<span id='postcolor'>

Well, no matter what you use as marker, this will happen, and it is very important to announce the addons marker used in the MOTD. I prefer not having the addons maps completely seperate, as I usually look more for player number and map type - if it has addons or not is the least important point. If they are sorted together (addons marker as last part of the tag), then I can ask if everyone has the addons, and if not I just choose the next map that doesn't use addons.

If you have only voted admins, then the addons tag might be better in second place as above (I think map type is always more important than the addons tag), but we have most of the time a signed in admin on the server and the addons pack is well established (i.e. all regulars have it), so the ease of map selection is more important.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Underscores

Now that you can compare spaces with underscores, which gives more clarity? Bear in mind this is even more distinctive ingame<span id='postcolor'>Personally I don't care. I think some kind of seperator - and a space or underscore are the most intuitive ones - is needed to seperate the tag from the map name. What you use doesn't matter. I can live fine with both.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Unable to see al filename

If you hover the mouse over the filename ingame, a small temporary text box opens displaying the filename in full<span id='postcolor'>I know that - but you don't want to hover over every map - especially if there's 50 or more of the same type on one island it is good to see as much of the mission name as possible. Do not waste the room available! The additional underscore or space is not nescessary to understand your naming scheme.

Just keep it short and simple. That's all I'm arguing for...

[Skunk Monkey 0]

Also your argument for having addon bit first is so that you ask the people on the server "Do you have these addons?" and then pick and addon map if you do.

From experaince there are always some who dont have the addons - if these means you wont play the addon map then they will never get played, if they are never played people wont download them. Its the fact of getting booted from a good server where good games are happening that makes people go and download them (as long as they arent excessivly big).

So to make your addons work well on your server you must be prepared to loose people when you select an addon mission. Its always hardest in the begining when fewer people have the addons - after a few months this is to a lesser degree as many will have got the addons. Also We decided to make sure our addon packs had a 3month life, so that it was worth downloading and wasnt always being updated.

August-November (addon pack 2)

December-March (Addon Pack 3 - NEW!!!!!!

Also we have very few vote admins on SES, nearly always there is one of the 25 members there admining the server.

[terox 316]

You miss the point about the @ at the start, it isnt so that someone can ask everybody if they have the addon.

Its so that the admin stops and thinks "Ah this map uses an addon, should i be loading it, shall i warn folks that i am about to load an addon map etc"!!! , so that if they get kicked, they know the reason why

(Dont forget, there is no message that says to the client "You didnt have the addon******", they simply find themselves disconnected

In addition

Its so every map that uses addons on the server are grouped together, in much the same way as ctf's and c&h's are grouped together.

For each island it basically creates two distinctive "Supergroups",

1) Addon maps

2) Non addon maps

and then within these supergroups it then subcategorises them by map type (Which is why the spaces are required)

It then lists those map types by player limits

This makes there presence when looking through the map listings more defined and more searchable.

Dont think "Your regular server", think more globally.

to the extent (And this is a dream at the moment), that when u log in as say voted admin on any server all the map choices are in the same order. and split into categories in the same way.

Now by not creating an addon category are you saying that Addons are not an important category and therefore it isnt really important to distinguish them from non addon maps, so this is why you want to place the addon marker, whatever it is, further into the name system, where it isnt as noticeable.

You really have to forget about how it would work on your particular server and think about how it would work on every server and also think about players who dont understand diddly squat about pc's except how to click a mouse

SHOP for instance has only 1 addon map

and during the Europe daytime, voted admins are quite common, to have the 1 map that uses the only addon that the server supports, with its "Addon marker" incorporated into the name or map type, simply obscures the fact its an addon map and gives it a reasonable chance of being accidentally loaded and then kick half the players off

Whereas some servers that play many addon maps would have quite a large Addon supergroup and possibly only a small Non addon supergroup.

I thought about having the @ tag after the map type

ie ctf@

c&h@

ctf @

c&h @

ctf_@

c&h_@

<span style='color:red'>Linux OFP servers do not have problems with spaces</span>

this would work, but it would create 2 groups for every map type

so if we say have 8 map types we then create 16 groups

however if we precede with the @ we only have 9 groups

What I am trying to create is a VERY SIMPLE convention

The more basic the better

9 groups instead of 16 etc

I want something that when the map selection screen opens, its as easy on the eye as i can get it

Spaces make it easy on the eye, underscores dont

You only have to look at the jpg to see that

(Imagine removing the (bis) part of the upper listings and then compare them to the lower listings

The Filename with spaces is much easier on the eye and u still get to see a good portion of the map name, certainly enough to distinguish it

<span style='color:red'>So the question really is, globally do addon maps need to be distinguished from non addon maps in a clearly defined way?? or isnt it that important (Globally) and therefore intermingle addon maps with others by placing there @ in a more obscure location</span>

[whisperFFW06 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (joltan @ Nov. 28 2002,15:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (whisperFFW06 @ Nov. 28 2002,14:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I don't think we should sort these maps with @ tag, only indicate that these addons are required on server in the MOTD banner. EditorXXX 1.02 are IMHO the minimal required. It will sort maps with no addons/minimal addon from maps really requiring addons.<span id='postcolor'>

You can not expect everyone (especially not voted admins) to know all maps by hearth, and not everyone connecting for the first time to have even your so called 'basic' addons.

By using the addons tag as second or third part of the tag (like 'co@12...' or 'co12@' you gain the knowledge which maps use addons (one or a hundred doesn't make a difference if the user doesn't have them) and which use none at all. That leaves you the possibility to choose maps that  requires no addons on purpose when there's many non-regular players online. And it won't sort them completely apart but either grouped together by type or mixed completely.<span id='postcolor'>

My main point was not that everybody should have editorUpdate & editorUpgrade, but that 90% of missions use them (at least, this is what happens on our server). this make the addons tag really less usefull then.

[terox 316]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My main point was not that everybody should have editorUpdate & editorUpgrade, but that 90% of missions use them (at least, this is what happens on our server). this make the addons tag really less usefull then. <span id='postcolor'>

I would agree with you, that on your server it wouldnt be as useful.

However the convention is not designed for any particular server, it is designed for the whole OFP community

(Which is going to take some time to fully implement)

To some servers it isnt important to distinguish addon maps from others.

For some servers that are only coop servers, its more important to have player limits as the primary listings

Some servers only do Addon maps

Some servers dont do any addons at all

I spent a long time looking at all the various aspects and possibilities before i posted the convention

The convention was designed to be Global, not server specific

For instance

Vets coop server would probably prefer to list their maps by player limit.

Lets call the file

24_coop_last stand

Whereas stoners would prefer to list it by map group

coop_24_last stand

to a 10 player limit server, the number of players isnt important at all.

To combine all this into 1 filename, so that you dont download the map 3 times as you visit each server in turn

I came up with the universal convention.

Some aspects of the convention will be useless to some servers but very important to others

Which is why I am asking you to think beyond your regular server

[Lt_Damage 0]

It is definately useful, and it's entirely irrelevant how one particular server wants to run coop-only.

I will begin renaming all of GP's 350+ missions to use the format @CH_10Dragonlair.abel.pbo

I think this is the most suitable format for GP as it has a wide variety of missions and sorting through them is hell.

[joltan 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Lt_Damage @ Nov. 29 2002,03:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It is definately useful, and it's entirely irrelevant how one particular server wants to run coop-only.

I will begin renaming all of GP's 350+ missions to use the format @CH_10Dragonlair.abel.pbo

I think this is the most suitable format for GP as it has a wide variety of missions and sorting through them is hell.<span id='postcolor'>

Lt. Dammage:

Actually on a coop only server the difference betwen having the addons tag in first or second place is absolutely zero (just look at my examples below) - I was rather thinking of other servers that have a wider variety of maps.

If you then place the addons tag in the first place, it gets quite inconvenient if you want to play, let's say, a ctf. You will have to check two lists now, seperated by all the deathmatches, flagfights and coops with addons... It is much more convenient having the map types together.

Terox:

Player number in first place would be crap, I don't think anybody would really propose something like that seriously.

Also having map type and addons marker in first/second place creates exactly as much groups as vice versa - if you want I can make a drawing for you... basically its just math: if you have five different map types and in addtion you have addons or not (=2 possible values) you have 2x5 = 10 = 5x2 groups.

Now think about how you select a map - you go always first for map type - not for addons/nonaddons. Therefore it would be most logical to have the maps grouped together according to that.

If you group them by addon first your list will look like this:

coop

coop

coop

coop

ctf

ctf

ctf

ctf

dm

dm

dm

dm

ff

ff

ff

ff

tdm

tdm

tdm

tdm

@coop

@coop

@coop

@coop

@ctf

@ctf

@ctf

@ctf

@dm

@dm

@dm

@dm

@ff

@ff

@ff

@ff

@tdm

@tdm

@tdm

@tdm

Whereas sorting by maptype first results in a much more accessible list:

coop

coop

coop

coop

coop@

coop@

coop@

coop@

ctf

ctf

ctf

ctf

ctf@

ctf@

ctf@

ctf@

dm

dm

dm

dm

dm@

dm@

dm@

dm@

ff

ff

ff

ff

ff@

ff@

ff@

ff@

tdm

tdm

tdm

tdm

tdm@

tdm@

tdm@

tdm@

Which sorting you think users will find better when they have to scroll trough Lt. Dammages 350 maps???

WisperFFW06:

We have many addons maps on our server - most do NOT use the editor addon. And when looking at our non-addons maps (still the majority), well they use absolutely no addons - not even this. Therefore having these maps mixed up with maps that actually use an addon would prevent us from knowing which maps are really safe to use.

Even if the editor addon is quite common, there are lots of players that don't have it - mainly those that are relatively new to the community or that have never done any editing, and those that only played the camaign and now want to have some fun at mp. In short: your future regulars, that you don't want to scare away only because they are missing something you consider 'essential'.

They will get it together with your other addons if they have a chance to play a bit with you and the other guys from your server. If they just get thrown out, because of a 'safe' map, they probably won't come back. Therefore: keep the 'non-addon' maps free of ANY unofficial addon.

[terox 316]

Ok fair enough on the addons marker being joined to the map type

ie

ctf@

I will amend the initial post

as far as using _ between things, why on earth do you want to clutter the name up when its FAR more easier to read with spaces.

I again refer to the jpeg screen shot

Zeus, our 48 player linux test server has no problems with spaces, and Stoners House of pancakes 30 player server finds spaces much easier on the eye

[Skunk Monkey 0]

Damage - Good to see your input, but dont start re-naming yet!!

Lets see if we can get 10 servers all using the same format, then we can actaully call it a community-wide format. I would be happy to rename my maps for this, and also to remove all the capitals so that they would be linux-compatable as well.

Looks like we are getting close to agreeing on something like

(type)(number)(@=addon if needed)(authour if known)(Name - with our without spaces)

btw - i think the @ is clearer than the "a" we currently use if it works

(damn now I may have to rename 100 maps )

Have you tested the @ - Kegety's said he was unsure about this symbol? Did he mean on Linux ?

[nierop 0]

Skunk, the convention

(type)(number)(@=addon if needed)(authour if known)(Name - with our without spaces)

was not proposed. You'll lose the addon vs. nonaddon sorting of game types (it'll be sorted on player number, which is of less importance). Also I personally would like to see the version number of the map in the convention, and the autor name completely at the end.

This would be the proposed convention:

(type)(@=addon if needed)(number)<space>(Name - with our without spaces)(version number)<space>(authour if known)

Pimmelorus [sHoP]

[benu 1]

You all should keep ONE thing in mind when talking about addons: When a server does NOT use addons, it's of no consequence whether there is an addon flag and what and where it is.

When talking about the addon flag we are talking about servers that WANT to use addons, so whether the map has addons or not is not so important on those servers. Maptype and Maxplayers are more important.

I'm interested in maptype first and maxplayers second. I'd like to have my maps sorted that way. Using an addon map or an addon-free map is really only my third thought. I haven't checked all maps on the server for addons and installed all those addons to never use them. I want to use the addons, i have the needed addons in the MOTD and if players don't have them... well, tough luck. I actually do have renamed all maps on my server and it doesn't complicated anything that addon maps are not sorted to the absolute beginning or end of the maplist. Quite the opposite, i have all my (for example) co 16 maps in view and can THEN choose which to play, addons or not.

So i propose that the addon flag goes AFTER the maxplayer field, cause any other system makes sense only for servers that don't want to use the addons anyway...