Helicopter camera

[Firebird-B4L 51]

I'm not so sure I agree with an immediate revert on this one RacerX, although I agree we need a fix and I too would like a quick solution. 

 

I like the idea of getting the old heli camera back, but if we revert back suddenly, then that will mess up the new DLC for the guys who purchased it and actually like the camera for the jets (apparently everyone loves it).  That'd be a "right thing done in a wrong way", to quote a certain Colonel.

 

What's done is done.  Meetings were held, decisions were made, the DLC is out.  Those of us who have the time voiced our disconcert for the rest of the discontents, Bohemia acknowledged the issue and put out the hotfix in a timely manner (thank you Oukej and BI studio team).

 

Oukej, our DEV who stepped up to the plate, from what I can gather is continuing to try and get this fixed.  He's monitoring our feedback and working with his team so that they don't rush through a decision. 

 

I'm assuming the task at hand and the current goal is to actually come up with an intelligent solution that will make sense for the game as a whole and consider the impact on all players--especially us who are taking the time to let them know what we like and don't like about both cameras, as well as our ideas on what we'd like to see as future options. 

 

I don't see this as another hotfix, I see this as an ongoing project to eventually, in steps, have camera options in place that offer pilots multiple settings to customize their camera, similar to the customization of a joystick or controller.

 

The camera is so important, and this bad thing will take the game in a new, better direction and make it a better experience in the long run.

[pooroldspike 129]

5 hours ago, romille1 said:

..The way you landed the Mowhawk in your demonstration video was very, very slow compared to what was possible with the old camera, but it was a nice landing none-the-less.  But that's all it is, a nice, basic slow calculated landing..

 

Call me fussy but I like to get my boys to the landing zone alive!

They've learnt to "Stick with Spike if you want to live"..:)

I've seen too many hot-dogging chopper pilots (usually Hummingbird jocks) in the servers trying to slalom around trees at high speed to land fast, and ending up snagging the foliage and getting barbecued with their passengers in the flaming wreckage..:)

 

[pooroldspike 129]

8 hours ago, lysan said:

3rd person view should be illegal anyway but that is just my opinion, I'd help myself out now.....

 

The KOTH servers are 3rd-p and they're very popular. There were  a couple of 1st-p ones a while back but they've since vanished, so I presume nobody wanted them..:)

[Firebird-B4L 51]

16 minutes ago, pooroldspike said:

 

Call me fussy but I like to get my boys to the landing zone alive!

They've learnt to "Stick with Spike if you want to live"..:)

I've seen too many hot-dogging chopper pilots (usually Hummingbird jocks) in the servers trying to slalom around trees at high speed to land fast, and ending up snagging the foliage and getting barbecued with their passengers in the flaming wreckage..:)

 

 

Spike, that's exactly our goal as master pilots to get guys in safe.  To do this we need to fly in at full speed, low, and hit the ground quick for obvious reasons in a hummingbird so I won't go into it.

 

The new camera destroyed that and now we do end up in a burning wreckage when we try and get guys in this way because the camera is not practical for this extreme maneuvering of the helicopter.

[Firebird-B4L 51]

The camera was not just great for extreme maneuvering in hot zone landing situations. 

 

I'd like to post a link of a video that demonstrates what was possible with the old camera in first and third person.  It will demonstrate visually why the old camera worked so well.

 

What we hummingbird entrepreneurs like to call the "Redneck Pawnee" is no less than a beautiful demonstration of what's possible when you get creative in Arma and bring new, exciting dimensions to the gameplay.  The "Redneck Pawnee" has evolved as a fresh tactic on the KOTH battlefront.  A ballet in the air, the Redneck Pawnee's success is dependent on four skills working together like a well oiled machine: quick and precise communication, fast, precise marksmanship, locating ground infantry quickly, and extreme piloting (which all rely on a stabilized camera platform).

 

 

[RacerX 55]

1 hour ago, romille1 said:

I'm not so sure I agree with an immediate revert on this one RacerX, although I agree we need a fix and I too would like a quick solution. 

 

I like the idea of getting the old heli camera back, but if we revert back suddenly, then that will mess up the new DLC for the guys who purchased it and actually like the camera for the jets (apparently everyone loves it).  That'd be a "right thing done in a wrong way", to quote a certain Colonel.

 

What's done is done.  Meetings were held, decisions were made, the DLC is out.  Those of us who have the time voiced our disconcert for the rest of the discontents, Bohemia acknowledged the issue and put out the hotfix in a timely manner (thank you Oukej and BI studio team).

 

Oukej, our DEV who stepped up to the plate, from what I can gather is continuing to try and get this fixed.  He's monitoring our feedback and working with his team so that they don't rush through a decision. 

 

I'm assuming the task at hand and the current goal is to actually come up with an intelligent solution that will make sense for the game as a whole and consider the impact on all players--especially us who are taking the time to let them know what we like and don't like about both cameras, as well as our ideas on what we'd like to see as future options. 

 

I don't see this as another hotfix, I see this as an ongoing project to eventually, in steps, have camera options in place that offer pilots multiple settings to customize their camera, similar to the customization of a joystick or controller.

 

The camera is so important, and this bad thing will take the game in a new, better direction and make it a better experience in the long run.

OK you are right I am letting this get to me. I am a mechanic IRL. I was hired by my company to fix "Stuff". Now if I was working on a perfectly good running piece of equipment doing maintenance and I broke it and then told my boss "Well I tried,its almost 5:00 and time to go home. Here! You fix it. Let me know how that works out for you. Bye!" How long do you think I would have a job? 

Now don't miss understand me here the point of this is not to say those devs should not have a job. Not at all. What I am pointing out is simple "If you break it, Fix it!" Don't put duct tape on it and send it on its way so that others have to deal with the problem later on down the road. Start the engine,check the oil,kick the tires,make sure its good to go before it leaves. Instead they put duct tape on it and said "it has duct tape on it but here we will give you this knife if you want to cut the tape off and fix it yourself !" Thats my point! 

BTW hello Texas

[Trimmer 28]

7 hours ago, Greenfist said:

extCameraParams is a config variable for a vehicle. So to change it, you need to create a config replacement mod.

 

LOL... Dude, I so wish I can do something to help with what the dev requested. Your explanation sounds legit, I can make sense of it, but I haven't the slightest clue how to carry out the task at hand.

To me, dev's comment made it seem like this is something we should be aware of how to do. Let's say I learned how to do all this stuff, wouldn't the easiest and most direct approach be to just show a video of a hummingbird flying from a month ago? Or go to the 1.68 legacy build, get the camera parameters from that and slap it on the forum? I feel like I'm missing so much and it's giving me a strange but mild anxiety... :(

[RacerX 55]

7 minutes ago, Trimmer said:

 

LOL... Dude, I so wish I can do something to help with what the dev requested. Your explanation sounds legit, I can make sense of it, but I haven't the slightest clue how to carry out the task at hand.

To me, dev's comment made it seem like this is something we should be aware of how to do. Let's say I learned how to do all this stuff, wouldn't the easiest and most direct approach be to just show a video of a hummingbird flying from a month ago? Or go to the 1.68 legacy build, get the camera parameters from that and slap it on the forum? I feel like I'm missing so much and it's giving me a strange but mild anxiety... :(

the 1.68 version of camera is "Built in" into the arma engine. I'm under the impression they have now made the camera configurable in 1.7 whereas it wasn't before. In other words you cant pull from 1.68 settings. But make your own new ones from 1.7

[Trimmer 28]

Just now, RacerX said:

the 1.68 version of camera is "Built in" into the arma engine. I'm under the impression they have now made the camera configurable in 1.7 whereas it wasn't before

Hmmm... Myeah I guess I don't understand how that answers my question. They both have parameters no? I'm not being snarky, I literally DON'T UNDERSTAND... lol I hate this.

 

Let's just say for shits n giggles, "if" the camera never quite rolls back to the way we like it, and "if" I just wanted to fly in the old view... Could I just fly and create my own little SP missions in the Legacy version from this point on and just stop playing the new updated arma with everybody? Or will that it eventually get replaced?  LOL- Yes, this is the alternative thinking I'm resorting to...

[Firebird-B4L 51]

1 hour ago, RacerX said:

OK you are right I am letting this get to me. I am a mechanic IRL. I was hired by my company to fix "Stuff". Now if I was working on a perfectly good running piece of equipment doing maintenance and I broke it and then told my boss "Well I tried,its almost 5:00 and time to go home. Here! You fix it. Let me know how that works out for you. Bye!" How long do you think I would have a job? 

Now don't miss understand me here the point of this is not to say those devs should not have a job. Not at all. What I am pointing out is simple "If you break it, Fix it!" Don't put duct tape on it and send it on its way so that others have to deal with the problem later on down the road. Start the engine,check the oil,kick the tires,make sure its good to go before it leaves. Instead they put duct tape on it and said "it has duct tape on it but here we will give you this knife if you want to cut the tape off and fix it yourself !" Thats my point! 

BTW hello Texas

 

Haha, I don't know, IRL you wouldn't last long more than likely.  But I guess that all depends on your boss and if he is high at the time or not, lol.  Your example reminds me of the movie "Office Space".  On the other hand, heck your boss might like the fact that your a staright-shooter with large reproductive organs and promote you on the spot to manage the whole shop.  But if you value your current place of employment and want a reference in the future, don't try it, haha.

 

In all seriousness I was shocked at the decision of Bohemia on this one to put out a DLC that would introduce a major change to the helicopter camera in order to showcase a new Jet style camera for the jet people.  Hindsight is 20/20 and its easy to gripe when your not wearing the other shoes, but at the same time I feel like the underdog here and that heli pilots aren't as popular as jet pilots at Bohemia, but don't say you heard that from me, I don't want to be responsible for misrepresenting a company that I respect and don't have all the inside information on. 

 

In all honesty I was extremely frustrated and angered that it happened.  But I'm over it and now I think we should all pull together, keep experimenting in the heli, put our ideas on the table, and let Bohemia take our input and produce something that works well.  

 

To continue on my previous thoughts, I think this thing could turn into something really good and mistakes don't always turn out bad in the long run.  I think mistakes hurt at first but can be the impetus to make a situation better, that had there been no mistake in the first place, the potential for new and improved change never could have been given birth to.

 

And a hello back from Laredo, Texas

[Trimmer 28]

Well said romille1... I admit I don't share your optimism but I feel like I should learn to in this case at some point.

The amount of "mood fixer" I've been smoking since all this started is getting rather excessive.

On a better note, I'll be gone fishin for 6 days after I get off work tomorrow and won't even consider Arma for a while. That said, I expect all of you to have this sorted out by the time I get back... :)

[Firebird-B4L 51]

35 minutes ago, Trimmer said:

Well said romille1... I admit I don't share your optimism but I feel like I should learn to in this case at some point.

The amount of "mood fixer" I've been smoking since all this started is getting rather excessive.

On a better note, I'll be gone fishin for 6 days after I get off work tomorrow and won't even consider Arma for a while. That said, I expect all of you to have this sorted out by the time I get back... :)

 

Thanks Trimmer--now that sounds awesome.  Sounds like a serious fishing trip, six days.  Heck in six days, I think I might even catch a fish, haha.

 

By the time you get back, hopefully this thing will be well on the way to getting better, if not miraculosly fixed.  But I don't have the slightest clue how challenging this fix is to accomplish, much less of what will be decided upon. 

 

At least there's an option to go back to the previous, better heli camera if you want to stay on top of your game in case it does come back.  There have been questions on how to do this with a certain mod, but I'm still not sure how either.  I'm waiting for more details on how to do this plus my gaming computer is down for the count after a lightning storm and I can't do any experimenting anyway until she's back up and running--waiting for the new power supply to arrive.  It rains like twice a year here, go figure.

[Misconduct 99]

5 hours ago, pooroldspike said:

 

Call me fussy but I like to get my boys to the landing zone alive!

They've learnt to "Stick with Spike if you want to live"..:)

I've seen too many hot-dogging chopper pilots (usually Hummingbird jocks) in the servers trying to slalom around trees at high speed to land fast, and ending up snagging the foliage and getting barbecued with their passengers in the flaming wreckage..:)

 

even if the success rate of the flying you described (sounds familiar) is 25% it is still a far better tactic than paradrops in terms of boots on the ground (points) because you get groups of soldiers defending an LZ while reviving, much higher success rates follow one good, hot LZ.

Check out Token Abizi (sp?) with the mohawk ( I think romille1 mentioned him earlier) he is a madman. (but, Hummingbird>Mohawk!!)

[Misconduct 99]

3 hours ago, Trimmer said:

Hmmm... Myeah I guess I don't understand how that answers my question. They both have parameters no? I'm not being snarky, I literally DON'T UNDERSTAND... lol I hate this.

 

Let's just say for shits n giggles, "if" the camera never quite rolls back to the way we like it, and "if" I just wanted to fly in the old view... Could I just fly and create my own little SP missions in the Legacy version from this point on and just stop playing the new updated arma with everybody? Or will that it eventually get replaced?  LOL- Yes, this is the alternative thinking I'm resorting to...

I have so much empathy for this whole quote - from technical inexperience/fear of mods - to giving up on multiplayer to get my flying the way I love it.

[Misconduct 99]

3 hours ago, romille1 said:

 

Haha, I don't know, IRL you wouldn't last long more than likely.  But I guess that all depends on your boss and if he is high at the time or not, lol.  Your example reminds me of the movie "Office Space".  On the other hand, heck your boss might like the fact that your a staright-shooter with large reproductive organs and promote you on the spot to manage the whole shop.  But if you value your current place of employment and want a reference in the future, don't try it, haha.

 

In all seriousness I was shocked at the decision of Bohemia on this one to put out a DLC that would introduce a major change to the helicopter camera in order to showcase a new Jet style camera for the jet people.  Hindsight is 20/20 and its easy to gripe when your not wearing the other shoes, but at the same time I feel like the underdog here and that heli pilots aren't as popular as jet pilots at Bohemia, but don't say you heard that from me, I don't want to be responsible for misrepresenting a company that I respect and don't have all the inside information on. 

 

In all honesty I was extremely frustrated and angered that it happened.  But I'm over it and now I think we should all pull together, keep experimenting in the heli, put our ideas on the table, and let Bohemia take our input and produce something that works well.  

 

To continue on my previous thoughts, I think this thing could turn into something really good and mistakes don't always turn out bad in the long run.  I think mistakes hurt at first but can be the impetus to make a situation better, that had there been no mistake in the first place, the potential for new and improved change never could have been given birth to.

 

And a hello back from Laredo, Texas

I like your positive outlook! I sure hope BI will give us a ray of hope in terms of communication tho, I'd settle for a definitive "we are GOING to give you the 1.68 (or perfect patch) camera at some point in the next few weeks" or "too bad, its staying like this"

I just don't like waiting in the dark on this. Heli-cam comparison video in a few hours, 1.70 and 1.70(hotfix) vs 1.68

[Misconduct 99]

3 hours ago, Trimmer said:

Well said romille1... I admit I don't share your optimism but I feel like I should learn to in this case at some point.

The amount of "mood fixer" I've been smoking since all this started is getting rather excessive.

On a better note, I'll be gone fishin for 6 days after I get off work tomorrow and won't even consider Arma for a while. That said, I expect all of you to have this sorted out by the time I get back... :)

Consider it sorted out, we got some hammers and some duct tape, were gona Redneck-3rdPcamera this bitch for BI!

[Greenfist 1863]

Just now, Misconduct said:

I like your positive outlook! I sure hope BI will give us a ray of hope in terms of communication tho, I'd settle for a definitive "we are GOING to give you the 1.68 (or perfect patch) camera at some point in the next few weeks" or "too bad, its staying like this"

I just don't like waiting in the dark on this. Heli-cam comparison video in a few hours, 1.70 and 1.70(hotfix) vs 1.68

I doubt there will be another hotfix soon, but the next big update is the Malden DLC on June 22nd. Maybe BI will tweak the camera then. Although I seriously hope they do not, because the current camera is perfect.

 

Just now, Misconduct said:

I have so much empathy for this whole quote - from technical inexperience/fear of mods - to giving up on multiplayer to get my flying the way I love it.

Don't be afraid of mods, they're your friends in making the game just the way you like it. In fact, many people use them, some even say that most people do. And it doesn't stop you from playing online.

The process is simple. You make a mod, or wait for someone else to do it, and I'm sure someone will. Then tell your server admin to allow its use. As far as I know even KOTH server sometimes allow mods. Then click subscribe on the Steam Workshop and enable the mod in the launcher. Done. The old 1.68 camera is back.

 

By the way, you can edit your post instead of spamming multiple comments in a row. It's against the forum etiquette.

[Misconduct 99]

Just a mad man rambling on.

[PistFlyBoy 15]

Hey since we are on the subject, revert 1st person too. thanks.

[pooroldspike 129]

8 hours ago, Misconduct said:

even if the success rate of the flying you described (sounds familiar) is 25% it is still a far better tactic than paradrops in terms of boots on the ground (points) because you get groups of soldiers defending an LZ while reviving, much higher success rates follow one good, hot LZ.

Check out Token Abizi (sp?) with the mohawk ( I think romille1 mentioned him earlier) he is a madman. (but, Hummingbird>Mohawk!!)

 

It all depends what the scenario is, I only play KOTH and if there are SAM's in some KOTH scenarios it makes sense to come in low and fast underneath them and land, but if there are no SAM's it's safer to fly in above small-arms range and parachute out.. 

Regarding landing, inexperienced pilots often make the mistake of landing smack in the enemy's lap in a hot LZ in the middle of the objective area, when it would have been safer to land on the outskirts. You get exactly the same victory points for being on the outskirts as you do for being in the centre!

Regarding parachuting, most inexperienced chutists make a similar mistake by waiting until the chopper is over the centre of the obj area before jumping into the enemy's lap, instead of jumping on the safer outskirts, crazy!

PS- if anybody can recommend any other good servers out there please let me know..:) 

 

[Perkele08 1]

Chiming in as another dissatisfied user. I do not have the thousands of hours playing Arma 2 or Arma 3 that some of you do, and I'm a mediocre pilot at best, but I have always loved doing it. Always flew for my friends in Arma 2 scenarios and Day Z (and it's assorted mods of the mod, lol) , and came into Arma 3 doing the same. None of this realistically matters, but I wanted to be upfront about my experience so there's no room for ''Well, I don't know how YOU fly...blah blah blah''. I know I'm lukewarm at best. It's cool.

The aggressive flying style that Hummingbirds and Pawnees need (imho, anyway) to perform their job properly was impossible before the hotfix. (again, imho) I've seen a number of comments from people either in game or on YouTube videos stating that it made them feel ill, distracted them too much, or just plain felt awful. I, personally, felt rather nauseous when flying before the hotfix.

 Cue the Hotfix, which was admittedly a pretty good band-aid. Flying is much easier than before the hotfix but after the patch. But it's still not great. It was great in 1.68, that's just how I see it. I do, however, understand that there will be changes. BI are going to change stuff and wiggle stuff about based on how they want their game to run. I can't stop that, and I'm okay with that. But I sure would appreciate it if they would take us seriously on this situation. Even just the option to tick a box in the settings or something that would revert the camera would be really nice. 

[pooroldspike 129]

We all love Moderators, in fact I'm one myself over at the Mission4Today WW2 combat flight sim site, I saw an advert like this and thought I'd give it a go-

 

So can I ask any BI Mods/Admins/Developers this key question-

Can you give us an ingame menu option to use the old 1.68 static horizon view and the new 1.70 hotfixed fluid-horizon view?

That way, players can use whichever view they prefer..:) 

After all, most flight sims out there have always had a variety of view preferences.

 

[xxbones21xx 1]

Flying the helicopters in arma 3 is one of my favorite things to do. With that being said, I literally refused to play until they sent out the hotfix. I'm in agreement with misconduct, its still not the same and it makes it hard to fly. One thing I hate the most is if you are hovering and you rotate the heli there is a delay for when the camera starts to turn. You'll see the rear rotor move and then the camera will follow.

 

[Drumnik 3]

On 17.5.2017 at 1:59 PM, EXEPOWERED said:

@oukej

We will wait. I was looking for answers on different forums (for example. steam) and the best option is settings to change camera mode.
Airplane camera:  camera follows vehicle also in pitch. ON/OFF

Helicopter camera:  camera follows vehicle also in pitch. ON/OFF

This will be good :)
Expected time for patch/fix? 

That's a great idea. I will be support that.

[Firebird-B4L 51]

I'm going to assume that the longer this takes, that more players and pilots and masters and fishermen and master baiters and everyone in between is going to become familiar with and accustomed to the new camera.  I know Greenfist is finding it flawless and really likes it even from the original DLC pre-hotfix.  Wait what? 

 

But seriously, at least have an update with an option between the two cameras. (as quite a few comments on the subject are appearing on Misconduct's Youtube channel after the demo video that he so professionally narrated for us in that DJ radio voice,"Ahhh, blue skies, broken clouds, and here's another oldie but goody from ArmA and the Jets called 'Baby, don't touch my camera'. Yeaaaaaa)  .  Amazing flying as usual Misconduct :)

 

In all seriousness, how far this could go at Bohemia is exciting to think about for the guys who want a camera view that they like, not one that is going to change again.

 

The heli camera, as we've seen here, is a subject that not everyone agrees upon.  Whose to say that I'm right and you are wrong just because I'm used to it and like it more or visa versa you like the new look?

 

So if the two are not soon an option, why not go for the custom camera under: configure/options/camera in the game menu that pops up when you hit escape.

 

Low and behold, we should be getting paid for this.  No charge Bohemia, the awesomess of your game will always be enough for me.

Edited June 1, 2017 by romille1
Was too much information unrelated and unnecessary