Helicopter camera

[Trimmer 28]

I'm glad to see they're making progress. The only qualm I have with all this is I'm constantly coming to my computer and checking for an update ever since the DLC release (I'm primarily a 3rd person pawnee/hummingbird pilot) because I haven't heard a thing about "when"... A simple ETA would save me a lot of "mild" frustration, even if it's a broad estimate. The responses I've seen all make it seem like a patch can be released any moment, but leave it vague enough to where we really have no clue. I wouldn't consider my complaint as a very pressing matter, but putting this out there because it really is the one thing that has me a little erked.

I understand that a company may not provide an ETA in case they don't meet that expectation and a slew of frustration follows, but in reality I see that as creating an excuse in advance in case they fail to resolve the issue in that timeframe, which shows a lack of confidence through my logic, thus leaving me skeptical (which I suppose isn't the end of the world, lol). Given, I don't know the first thing about running a company, and all of this is under the assumption that they at least have a general idea of what it's going to take to get this patch released and are just withholding their own expectations, so this is just my 2 cents...

[Greenfist 1863]

35 minutes ago, Trimmer said:

I'm glad to see they're making progress. The only qualm I have with all this is I'm constantly coming to my computer and checking for an update ever since the DLC release (I'm primarily a 3rd person pawnee/hummingbird pilot) because I haven't heard a thing about "when"... A simple ETA would save me a lot of "mild" frustration, even if it's a broad estimate. The responses I've seen all make it seem like a patch can be released any moment, but leave it vague enough to where we really have no clue. I wouldn't consider my complaint as a very pressing matter, but putting this out there because it really is the one thing that has me a little erked.

I understand that a company may not provide an ETA in case they don't meet that expectation and a slew of frustration follows, but in reality I see that as creating an excuse in advance in case they fail to resolve the issue in that timeframe, which shows a lack of confidence through my logic, thus leaving me skeptical (which I suppose isn't the end of the world, lol). Given, I don't know the first thing about running a company, and all of this is under the assumption that they at least have a general idea of what it's going to take to get this patch released and are just withholding their own expectations, so this is just my 2 cents...

The hotfixes are usually released within a week or two from the main update. 

Now, it has been 10 days and the update is out.

[Theo1143 18]

50 minutes ago, Trimmer said:

I'm glad to see they're making progress. The only qualm I have with all this is I'm constantly coming to my computer and checking for an update ever since the DLC release (I'm primarily a 3rd person pawnee/hummingbird pilot) because I haven't heard a thing about "when"... A simple ETA would save me a lot of "mild" frustration, even if it's a broad estimate. The responses I've seen all make it seem like a patch can be released any moment, but leave it vague enough to where we really have no clue.

 

They can but will never do that.

Thing is with ETA's is that every time they make an ETA and are to late it will disappoint people no matter what, even if it is a rough eta etc...

 

50 minutes ago, Trimmer said:

I understand that a company may not provide an ETA in case they don't meet that expectation and a slew of frustration follows, but in reality I see that as creating an excuse in advance in case they fail to resolve the issue in that timeframe, which shows a lack of confidence through my logic, thus leaving me skeptical (which I suppose isn't the end of the world, lol). Given, I don't know the first thing about running a company, and all of this is under the assumption that they at least have a general idea of what it's going to take to get this patch released and are just withholding their own expectations, so this is just my 2 cents...

 

Again the reason why, is because they have it already fixed and it is already live!

You can't do this with a ETA, ever, especially knowing that Bohemia has to wait for someone at steam to press the button for the update to start...

 

 

 

[EXEPOWERED 16]

Main Branch Update out! <3

 

Thanks @oukej, you listened to us, you have done what we want to, and now helicopters are back :D
Thanks to community also, we saw the problem, we wrote, we tried, we won.

 

Good job everybody.

Good job Bohemia.

[freakb 10]

3 hours ago, EXEPOWERED said:

Main Branch Update out! <3

 

Thanks @oukej, you listened to us, you have done what we want to, and now helicopters are back :D
Thanks to community also, we saw the problem, we wrote, we tried, we won.

 

Good job everybody.

Good job Bohemia.

is the hotfix live now??

[Greenfist 1863]

8 minutes ago, freakb said:

is the hotfix live now??

 

 

Quote

Main Branch Update out! <3

 

[freakb 10]

16 minutes ago, Greenfist said:

 

Main Branch Update out! <3

 

omg i can fly again :)

[RacerX 55]

I think its safe to say this topic can now be closed! o7

[Firebird-B4L 51]

There is definitely a difference in third person camera from the original.  It still feels off to me (sea sick when in third--camera still goes up and down--horrible for trying to focus on the ground while maneuvering).  It was NOT reverted back fully to the original.  

 

First person is also still not back to original; it is zoomed in too much.  When i pick up speed, the camera will not slightly zoom out so that my guages in the hummingbird come into view.  And when i zoom out in first person to compensate, i get the fisheye effect.

 

 

 

[Trimmer 28]

Like romille1 said above... After this latest Hotfix...There is still quirky differences in the camera view. What's strange, is like he was sayin, BEFORE: When you speed up, the camera zoomed out a bit. When slowing down, the camera zoomed in a bit. NOW: It's the other way around: Speed up-Camera zooms IN, Slow down- Camera zooms out... I went and looked at old recordings and confirmed that's the original behavior. I just want it back, lol, I desired ZERO change to 3rd person helis. On top of that, I think all my custom settings as far as how much anti-torque/yaw my mouse applied to the heli was changed and feels goofy to me now, but that's just a matter of tweaking on my end now I guess.

The camera zoom is buggin me though, and I still think the camera stuck closer to the horizon in regards to pitching the heli up or down... Like it still has some of that jet-chasing action going on. I don't want a compromise between the two settings, I just want it like it was... LOL, but that's just me, one customer. Perhaps its just been too long and I'm not seeing it right, but I wouldn't have inqured about it here without a certain amount of investigating.

 

UPDATE: Also it does a goofy perspective change during a lot of pitching and rolling at low altitude. You can't really navigate around obstacles as easily as before with the strange camera adjustments always going on. It's not easily noticeable, I could feel it first, then after going back and forth to old videos, it starts to become kinda obvious. In the new camera, the hummingbird is right up in your face at full speed, but in the old (before jets DLC), it was a pretty good distance from the point of view... Try an aggressive dive now, it's nearly impossible to get any perspective of when you need to start leveling out unless you stare at the gauges or you just level out much sooner than you would have been capable of. I used to be able to thread the needle with a heli, I was a cocky pilot with confidence, but with this I would have to start from scratch, which I'm sorry to say, I'm not willing to do.

 

[SwissJohnson 3]

@Trimmer Same here.. the new Camera settings still suck as fu#*. They simply should add a setting ''Old Camera-View / New Camera-View''. The new one is still B#lls*it. I'm completely disappointed about the last Update.

[Trimmer 28]

20 minutes ago, SwissJohnson said:

@Trimmer Same here.. the new Camera settings still suck as fu#*. They simply should add a setting ''Old Camera-View / New Camera-View''. The new one is still B#lls*it. I'm completely disappointed about the last Update.

 

Agreed... the more I investigate, the more I realize that they didn't really fix it but changed it a little, the same exact issue with the camera is still there, it's just slightly less dramatic, which doesn't make it any less of a problem in regards to being able to properly pilot in 3rd person... If you watch old videos of the way it was, the camera pretty much stayed right with the horizon and the zoom adjusted in a beneficial way, now it's all jacked up... this hotfix still no help to me and I'm back to not even wanting to deal with it anymore... I got motion sickness after flying for like 5 mins trying to give it a chance, when before the DLC I was able to play for hours back to back without the slightest issue. Awesome... I think i'll be walkin away from this game for a month or two, maybe they'll get this unfortunate change figured out... A large community is feeling like birds without feathers after this Jets DLC. My case sucks for the additional fact that I really don't have any interest in flying jets, and I suck as a ground unit... My 3rd person piloting days may be at an end. Was fun while it lasted Arma...

[RacerX 55]

@oukej Any news on this? Any chance they can put the helicopter 3rd person camera to what it was before the jets update? I havent tried it yet. But people are saying its still not right they just want it back to what it was before. Can you pass the word?

[pooroldspike 129]

Yes I agree with the guys who say the hotfix has only partially fixed the heli 3rd-person view.

It's an improvement over what it was like a couple of days ago but the camera still tends to loosely follow wherever the helis nose is pointing like a dog on a lead instead of staying rigidly fixed horizontal to the horizon like in dear old pre-1.70.

 

[Trimmer 28]

In the details about hotfix, it does just say "improved" and not the so much anticipated "fixed". Should have been titled "hot-improvement"... I sure hope they don't plan on calling it finished and this being the new 3rd person heli setup. In which case, I don't think I'll have enough interest to play the game anymore at all. That was my groove, and it's gone...

I really need a full revert BI... I don't know if you were going for something "in-between" the two styles with this last release, but I think most people have expressed quite clearly that we LOVED 3rd person helis prior to the Jets DLC, in fact I will go as far as saying it was PERFECT... Please, I want you to strive for perfection, lol....

I've provided a link that perhaps you'd like to share with your team before taking on this challenge further...

I hope you find this of good use. Everybody needs Al Pacino to light a fire under your seat from time to time... Don't say it's not relevant, football applies to everything in life, including computer game developers

[SwissJohnson 3]

Same here. Flew since January 2015 nearly every day.. That's gone now.

[pooroldspike 129]

And the Blackfish controls won't work for me since 1.70, I've watched tutorial vids, read the Manual and tried various key combos but no joy. 

[RacerX 55]

I just tested it. IMO the camera works like it did in 1.68 (before jets DLC). I don't see any issues with it. I can live with it. I am only speaking for myself though. For those having issues with it are you sure you updated your ARMA?

[Trimmer 28]

43 minutes ago, RacerX said:

I just tested it. IMO the camera works like it did in 1.68 (before jets DLC). I don't see any issues with it. I can live with it. I am only speaking for myself though. For those having issues with it are you sure you updated your ARMA?

I'm absolutely certain, I have well over 1500 hours of primarily just flying in 3rd person pawnees and hummingbirds. I can see the changes, but it most certainly doesn't work like it did... Look at the horizon on old videos, then look at how it is now. Look at how far a hummingbird is from the point of view at different speeds. It's VERY apparent if you actually compare, and very noticeable if you are a seasoned 3rd person view pilot... My issue isn't so much that things are different, it's that they're illogically different from the 1.68 version, the changes simply give terrible perspectives during flight, and I'm quite certain the controls are still jacked up in a couple particular ways...

The "turn" input from the mouse is very extreme in anti-torque/yaw/pedals... I primarily use separate buttons for pedal control and just a little bit effected by mouse movement. You can't change it in the settings without it effecting the "tilt" of the helicopter and that messes everything up. The slightest little sideways movement of my mouse and the helicopter makes extreme yaw actions while hovering, but doesn't make any extreme effects on any of the other actions from the mouse like tilt and pitch... I know this is different, It's hard to keep the nose pointed in one direction while landing or trying to come to a simple stable hover in one direction, the helicopter just pivots around with the slightest little touch of the mouse, which makes it very difficult to not strike the tail rotor in tight spaces, it was never like that... It's bizarre.... I hate it... The camera most certainly doesn't work like it did in 1.68... It still works just like it did after the Jets DLC, just slightly improved by how extreme it is.

I'm starting to wonder what kind of pilots they have testing this stuff out... it's garbage... Do their test pilots only fly in 1st person with nice head trackers and joysticks and pedals or something? This stuff is noticeable to me in the first 20 seconds of flying with the new hotfix.. If you compare with older video of the perspective of a hummingbird in flight with a new flight video after the latest fix, there's no question, you'd have to be blind to not see the difference, and how it can be a problem with navigating...

Then what's really discouraging, is there's no indication from the developers that they're aware of the remaining issues, as if everything is peachy. I have a feeling this is the way it is now, they're happy with it.

I'm not going to waste any more time with this. I really enjoyed 3rd person helis in arma for a very long time, it was a good time killer for me, but not like this, the non-sensible changes make it way too goofy and not at all intuitive to fly. Should have just leaved the helicopters alone when they brought in the JETS... Bummer I guess. I HATE JETS....

[EXEPOWERED 16]

Lol, i dont have any problem with updated camera. Feels like an old one.

[Trimmer 28]

Waiting for videos to upload on youtube and I'll post here. I tried to recreate a flight path I took in an old video in 1.68 version to compare with the 1.70 version. I'll post it when they're done to show the difference in perspective, it's quite noticeable how far the heli is and how loose the camera is in regards to staying behind the heli. I'm not too sure how to demonstrate the yaw/turn effect that's been bugging me but I'll try to figure out some sort of example.

[Trimmer 28]

Pay attention to a couple things... Watch in full screen, it's more apparent, I know side by side makes sense but it's more dramatic in full screen (the way we play).... The distance of perspective as the helicopter increases speed, and the rigid camera view directly behind the helicopter the 1.68 version vs the loose/slow camera that doesn't quite stick right behind the heli in version 1.70. Nevermind my skills in the version 1.70 video as I'm still fighting with my control settings in attempt to overcome this yaw/pedal issue im having in my mouse inputs, but don't think I can overcome it with settings. Sorry for not uploading in full HD, woulda taken too long. The 1.68 video is from a few months ago but a proper comparison regardless, it was a test recording I did in a KOTH match a while back and just happens to be easy to recreate the flight path for comparison.

 

 

[Trimmer 28]

The dipping up and down of the camera with the slightest bit of pitch is annoying too, like the camera lifts up quite a bit and dips down at strange times... I don't know if this stuff is just really noticeable to me and it's just driving me nuts... but I've been flying a certain way for so long that it has me feeling really unnatural flying now, I used to be able to fly through trees and obstacles no problem, but now I have no good judgement of how close I am to them at times, how quickly I'm descending or ascending... The little changes in perspective have my judgement of everything so out of wack and I really do get motion sickness type stuff going on when flying like it is now... I don't know guys... Maybe it's just a matter of pushing through the learning curve and hope to be able to fly to my previous abilities without the effects making me woozy, the hard part is breaking all my old intuitions in regards to perspectives of distance and momentum and all that good stuff that you stop thinking about after a lot of flight hours and has become as natural as breathing. My only problem with learning this new view is that I don't want everything reverted simply because I'm used to the old setup, but I truly do think the old setup was more logical and useful... I've done my bit, I've expressed my complaints, I don't have much hope for a full revert at this point. Good chance I'll be done with Arma before long.

[Storm7 1]

idk why the devs would think its a good idea to add in a motion sickness camera flying is terrible now

[Trimmer 28]

Okay, aside from the camera disaster... Without question, the left-right movement of the mouse translates to WAY too much yaw/anti-torque/pedal input and I've tried every combination of controls and mouse sensitivities. You can't do a stable manual hover without the nose moving every which direction at the slightest touch of the mouse while in 3rd person. You can't keep it pointed in a certain direction, if you try to pitch and roll out of a hover with the mouse at all, it first gives you a ton of pedal input in the direction you just want to roll and pitch and you just continue yawing beyond what it should... Like there's more pedals in the mouse than ever before... really strange stuff. It's total garbage and I don't think a legit pilot ever tested it in the development stage, no way would this be acceptable to a pilot with considerable experience... Our mouse needs to be like the stick, it can't be giving us a crazy amount of pedal input, it never did before which is why there were never complaints about it before. You took a perfect helicopter experience and turned it into total crap just so you can bring in a few new jets that a very small part of the community actually seems excited about. I think I've hit rock bottom with this botch up.