The Forgotten Battles

[Tex -USMC- 0]

well dammit. I just typed up a whole mini-essay about how much I love the Me-262, but thanks to an internet hiccup, it no longer exists (the writing, not the jet). Anyhoo, let me summarize:

-262 is not as uber as it appears. It's takeoff roll is absurdly long, and the engines will take any opportunity to burst into flames

-262 does kick ass though, as you can outfly any of those damn late-war commie-craft (that's what I'm calling em now), at least in the vertical axis

-its 4 cannon can't hit shit beyond 300 meters, but when used as the sawed off shotgun of the skies, it is my dream tool for both bomber and fighterectomies

-there is an odd quality about the 262 that causes it to lose complete control surface authority during certain flight conditions (high-speed, high-G). While it hasn't resulted in me turning my jet into a subterranean modern art exhibit, it certainly offers a little bit of extra fun during MP while you struggle to get the jet to respond while watching either your target slip away or the ground slip closer.

-flying at high altitudes in the 262 is a Zen like experience, only made better by the beauty that is Forgotten Battles

Finally, I noted that this is the longest OFP has been out of my CD drive for over a year.

[theavonlady 2]

I just downloaded the demo.

I've canceled this summer's vacation plans as I can fly right here on my desktop.

However, lil' ol' me has never been good in the pilot's seat. I mean, I don't know much about flaps or rudders or any of those other knobs and dials in the cockpit.

Is there a good IL2 FAQ site for greenhorns like me that will help me trhough the two demo missions?

Don't laugh or I'll plug you with a Steyr!

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Mar. 11 2003,14:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Is there a good IL2 FAQ site for greenhorns like me that will help me trhough the two demo missions? <span id='postcolor'>

Well, I looked round but found nothing that would really help beginners except for some training tracks that require the full version. Maybe some day we'll see Avon Lady's Il-2 FAQ? . For now, you could ask here, haven't played the demo missions myself but I'll be glad to offer any advice.

Incuidentally, I've had it up to here with the I-16. Every mission I was trying to survive the plane as much as the enemy. I downed 3 Emils and a Friedrick in my last mission, only to have my engine cut out on me as I downed the last one, and had to land behind enemy lines and was captured  . Think I'll start a MiG-3 campaign protecting Moscow.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tovarish @ Mar. 11 2003,18:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">For now, you could ask here, haven't played the demo missions myself but I'll be glad to offer any advice.<span id='postcolor'>

Well, my problem is flying, in general. Since I have no joystick, I'm using the arrow keys 99.999% of the time.

I find it difficult to accurately get on an enemy's plane's tail using the arrow keys. I'm playing with the lowest difficulty settings.

I manage to survive the missions but I get few or no points. So, aside from the breathtaking view, I'm more a neutral observer than anything else.

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Mar. 11 2003,17:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well, my problem is flying, in general. Since I have no joystick, I'm using the arrow keys 99.999% of the time.<span id='postcolor'>

Ouch  . I'm afraid I'd have to tell you the same thing I said to Col. Kurtz before he got his...I really can't see how anyone can get any enjoyment out of a realistic ( or even not so realistic! ) flight sim without a joystick  .

Of course, in Forgotten Battles you could always play as a non-pilot bomber crew...but you would be missing out on a lot....

[dayglow 2]

That's what I did back in the day with SWOTL. Just used the mouse and flew the B-17.

I tell you what, on of the most fun planes to mess around with is the Hurricane Mk2. Those 12 .303s just light up the target, even if they are pea shooters

COLINMAN

[Spy17 1]

Avo a joystick is a good investment!

Even the choppers and planes in OFP are nicer and easier to fly with a joystick (I love flying the choppers).

I would say in IL2 it is close to impossible to score kills using the keyboard! (at least in realistic settings)

I would recommend you something simple like the sidewinder precision 2 (Microsoft) because they include a rudder control!

[Tovarish 0]

Heh, all this talk of bomber crews has me tempted to start a career as a TB-3 crew when I get home . At least if an engine dies on that thing you're not necessarily screwed

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DayGlow @ Mar. 11 2003,18:05)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Those 12 .303s just light up the target, even if they are pea shooters

COLINMAN<span id='postcolor'>

See, the Brits and the Americans have the right idea. If you aren't going to put really huge guns on your aircraft, then by God, put a bunch of small guns on your aircraft. Unlike some countries I know...

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ Mar. 11 2003,20:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">See, the Brits and the Americans have the right idea. If you aren't going to put really huge guns on your aircraft, then by God, put a bunch of small guns on your aircraft. Unlike some countries I know...  <span id='postcolor'>

I don't know....have a bunch of small guns all in the wings? No nose mounted guns at all? Makes it kind of hard to get the concentrated firepower you would need in order to compensate for the small caliber of the individual guns. You said it yourself a while ago, give me a rifle over a shotgun any day.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

it's different than with the .50 cal. Go ahead and boot up the quick mission editor and try out the MkII b; it is awful precise, and because I have my convergence at 200 meters (I told you that's how I work ), I get a concentration of fire that's actually kind of scary. Plus, there is barely any noticeable recoil.

Besides, in the P47, the sheer volume of fire still allows you to hit targets at range, but it just seems like a waste of ammo, considering how powerful the .50 cals are.

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ Mar. 11 2003,20:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have my convergence at 200 meters (I told you that's how I work   ), I get a concentration of fire that's actually kind of scary. Plus, there is barely any noticeable recoil.<span id='postcolor'>

Bah, that's twice my distance . It'd be lower too if I could set it below 100. Historically some pilots did. Haven't tried the Hurri but I tried out the P-47 to see how it would take down bombers...pretty nicely . I still prefer nose mounted guns though.

*edit* common misconception that I shared until recently - nose guns ARE affected by conversion distance settings....you see, it also works in the vertical

[Aaron Kane 0]

I dont know how you guys actually get in that close to your target and stay on his tail.  Whenever I get into *perfect* shooting range which is like less than 100 meters, he pulls up slightly and goes flying out of my padlock.  Or he magically detects me from 300 meters behind him and goes into a rolling scissors or sharp turn, or he just bangs into me in midair, which I consider quite rude...

Speaking of padlock, I would like to start a game on full real, but the no padlock scares me. Wouldnt it be easier and maybe more fair to make it so padlock only tracks targets like 200 or less meters away you?  Then people couldnt abuse it and just keep pressing it to find hidden targets. I'd love to see that happen one day...

And just for the record, it turns out my stick is messed up, despite being $40 and less than 2 weeks old.  I was getting the same jerking when I was sitting on the runway, and the throttle and hat switch wouldnt respond at all

I think I fixed it now though...

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Aaron Kane @ Mar. 11 2003,22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Speaking of padlock, I would like to start a game on full real, but the no padlock scares me. Wouldnt it be easier and maybe more fair to make it so padlock only tracks targets like 200 or less meters away you?  Then people couldnt abuse it and just keep pressing it to find hidden targets. I'd love to see that happen one day...<span id='postcolor'>

This is a pretty personal thing and it's hotly debated among simmers wether padlock is realistic. Personally, I don't use it because I find it disorienting in a knife fight. I find I'm much more effective using the hat switch on my joystick to look around. If you think padlock helps you, I say go for it. It makes up for the inherent limitations of a computer simulation...after all a 15 to17 inch field of view isn't realistic either . Me, I fly with external views on so I don't get bored during long flights, but I don't use it to look at enemy aircraft (unless I shot one down and want to see it go down) or to gain situational awareness in combat.

[dayglow 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Aaron Kane @ Mar. 11 2003,14:09)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I dont know how you guys actually get in that close to your target and stay on his tail.  Whenever I get into *perfect* shooting range which is like less than 100 meters, he pulls up slightly and goes flying out of my padlock.  Or he magically detects me from 300 meters behind him and goes into a rolling scissors or sharp turn, or he just bangs into me in midair, which I consider quite rude...

Speaking of padlock, I would like to start a game on full real, but the no padlock scares me. Wouldnt it be easier and maybe more fair to make it so padlock only tracks targets like 200 or less meters away you?  Then people couldnt abuse it and just keep pressing it to find hidden targets. I'd love to see that happen one day...

And just for the record, it turns out my stick is messed up, despite being $40 and less than 2 weeks old.  I was getting the same jerking when I was sitting on the runway, and the throttle and hat switch wouldnt respond at all

I think I fixed it now though...<span id='postcolor'>

padlock only locks onto something in your FOV in IL2/FB, so have look in the general direction first to use it. What I hate is how easy it breaks lock. I could be tracking someone over my shoulder in plain view and the padlock will decide to break lock and center the view I hate it!!

It must have been murder for those bomber crews that got caught by a spite/hurricane in the BoB. Watching the volume of fire pour into the bomber, all those .303/.50 cal bullets may not damage motors, but man it must have just shredded anyone inside the thin walls of those planes.

To stay on the tail, I find that the ai really likes to slow the fight down. When it does a hard break across your nose do a barrel roll in the opposite direction of the break. In the barrel roll you pull and trade speed for alt, tighting your turn and you come out still behind the 3-9 line of the target around 100m farther away. Also just pulling up and doing a lazy roll around the flight path keeps you behind the target while retaining your energy. Remember you don't have to match your targets manouvers, see yourself moving around the flight path.

COLINMAN

[Tovarish 0]

Well, I just gave the I-16 a second chance....the model 24 I-16 with 2 of the MG's replaced by cannons that is. I also joined a Guards regiment, and the difference in the quality of pilots is amazing! In the last mission I flew we took down 13 planes (9 Ju-87's and 4 bf-109's) with no losses! 3 of the Ju-87's were mine. I'm just on my third mission, and I have already been promoted to Lietnant, and awarded the Order of the Red Star and Order of the Red Banner. 5 kills - the three bombers I just mentioned, a 109 and a 110. In the model 18 it regularly took me about 5 seconds of hitting a 109 before it might be fatally damaged. Now all it usually takes is 2-3 cannon hits . I'm being very disciplined about not following 109's in the vertical and hopefully that'll keep the engine troubles away.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Spy17 @ Mar. 11 2003,19:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Avon a joystick is a good investment!<span id='postcolor'>

Yes, after a last go at the demo, there's no argument about this.

SideWinder Precision 2? OK, I'll look into it. The kids asked me for a new one for their MS FS tinkering. Thanks.

[Warin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Mar. 12 2003,07:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Spy17 @ Mar. 11 2003,19:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Avon a joystick is a good investment!<span id='postcolor'>

Yes, after a last go at the demo, there's no argument about this.

SideWinder Precision 2? OK, I'll look into it. The kids asked me for a new one for their MS FS tinkering. Thanks. <span id='postcolor'>

That's a decent stick, but you might be able to pick up the Saitek Cyborg 3D Gold stick for around the same price, and it's WAY better. Totally ambidextrous.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Warin @ Mar. 12 2003,08:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">That's a decent stick, but you might be able to pick up the Saitek Cyborg 3D Gold stick for around the same price, and it's WAY better.  Totally ambidextrous.<span id='postcolor'>

Well it took me a while to find the local Saitek distributor's number. Doesn't seem too well set up locally though.

I'll give him half an hour to return my call and tell me what he's got.

BTW, What's the difference between the Saitek Cyborg 3D Gold and the X45 models? Is one of these overqualified for my kids (let alone myself)?

[R. Gerschwarzenge 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Mar. 12 2003,11:05)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">BTW, What's the difference between the Saitek Cyborg 3D Gold and the X45 models? Is one of these overqualified for my kids (let alone myself)?<span id='postcolor'>

Cyborg 3D Gold

X45

Take a look yourself.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (R. Gerschwarzenge @ Mar. 12 2003,11:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">5--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Mar. 12 2003,115)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">BTW, What's the difference between the Saitek Cyborg 3D Gold and the X45 models? Is one of these overqualified for my kids (let alone myself)?<span id='postcolor'>

Cyborg  3D Gold

X45

Take a look yourself. <span id='postcolor'>

Yes, I suppose the X45 is a bit too much.

Would love my hubby to try and have one installed in the family jeep!

[theavonlady 2]

Hah! Now with my SW Precision 2 in hand, the Luftwaffe is no match for Avon!

Until I fly too low and crash, that is. At least I took a choo-choo with me.

I think IL2FB will move onto my shopping list. But I need serious training. Please! No woman driving jokes!

Right now, I'm on the easiest settings, though I turned off the ID icons.

My gameplay consists of using the stick, pressing 0 for max throttle and hitting the W key, which I have no idea what it's for. I'm a little bit lost in space.

Gotta try the Comanche with this thingy. BRB!

[Aaron Kane 0]

Alright, I'm going to cry. I just completed the Kuban campaign, which was a follow up from Stalingrad. Now we are in... Bele-something, and its late 1943. I was expecting to be upgraded to the FW190A5, but what aircraft do they give me? The danged BF109G6... that thing is not fun at all...

*sighs*

[R. Gerschwarzenge 0]

I want a WWI flight sim.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Aaron Kane @ Mar. 13 2003,19:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I just completed the Kuban campaign, which was a follow up from Stalingrad.<span id='postcolor'>

Is this the original version or the new Forgotten Battles?

Is it worth buying both or is Forgotten Battles enough?

My boys are blacking out after playing too much of the demo yesterday and today.