Slow learning curve for some new players

[scarletomato 10]

Hey Guys,

 

I and a few friends just got Arma 3 during the steam sale weekend, and I'm loving it! Another guy and I have been playing the SP missions and on a large 60 player multiplayer server just about every day since.

However we've got a few other guys in our group that we've been trying to get online with us, so i set up a server and we've been trying some of the stock co-op missions but the difficulty in this game is a huge ramp up from what we've been playing, and the interest is quickly waning.

 

Any tips for getting some guys in that are used to something like the the checkpoint missions in Insurgency? If anything I'd like to find (or make if i need to) some missions that mimic that kind of play style (CQC 500m urban AOO and 15-30 minute timeframe) to start and then begin to introduce some of the great things about Arma like the cool toys, vehicles, and air support

 

Thanks!

[Midnighters 152]

Expand your horizon. I find people who play KOTH, Altis Life, Insurgency missions, etc. Become too casual and get bored of the too simplistic mechanics. I recommend up the difficulty and find something challenging. 

[thirith 27]

I've also found the stock missions less than ideal. You may want to check out some of the missions mentioned here: 

In addition, I've taken to upping the enemy AI but lowering their accuracy (to .2-.3); this means that they behave more interestingly, but they're not as uncannily accurate, which definitely helps newbies who aren't yet used to staying in cover and concealment. It increases the rate of survival without making the missions too easy for beginners.

[Midnighters 152]

Just now, thirith said:

I've also found the stock missions less than ideal. You may want to check out some of the missions mentioned here: 

In addition, I've taken to upping the enemy AI but lowering their accuracy (to .2-.3); this means that they behave more interestingly, but they're not as uncannily accurate, which definitely helps newbies who aren't yet used to staying in cover and concealment. It increases the rate of survival without making the missions too easy for beginners.

I think thats what is killing off most is the simplicity. Personally when i first played Arma 2 (when oa wasnt even out yet by the way) i loved playing these massive scale missions that had people fight each other in the way they want to, air, sea, land. We had a hell of a infantry fight whilst there was two fighter jets above trying to ping each other with AA. That i believe needs refreshing in arma 3, combined arms, TvT. Not another altis life, insurgency mission, domination. 

 

[Huski_ 1]

I'm new to Arma 3 with only 339 hours, however I got practise with my unit (a lot of new players too) in missions such as Escape and Liberation, Escape was useful due to its free-flowing style, causing the tactical awareness of surroundings, we used Liberation for more classbuilding but also for assult/vehicle training. Right now we are building our own training map, which is to be played along hours and hours, I may release the finished base-build for people to free-form it as well.

[scarletomato 10]

@Midnighters I definitely understand getting bored because it's too simple, and once we get the mechanics down we'll definitely move to something larger scale, but this is more because they're just so bad at it, between getting constantly sniped without having real way to snipe back (specifically in that "Combined Arms" mission), having to troop across kilometers of terrain in Escape, and getting mowed down by enemy armor and not being able to effectively command the bots it's just frustrating and seems hopeless for them. So they move back to Insurgency because there's at least some hope of winning the match (even though we usually don't XD ).

 

It's a tough crowd I'm trying to win over :) I haven't been able to convince most of them to try out the Campaign, so they're gonna have to learn with me in co-op. I have been dabbling in the Eden Editor some and placing a bunch of AI's down. And it definitely looks like if I can close the gap between my players and the baddies, the AI is much easier when they're ~50 meters away and we can actually pour ammo into them instead of popping off a shot and hoping.

@thirith That sounds like some of what i need! Can you set the accuracy per session via console or something, or does that need to be modified in the mission? I haven't seen that ability yet in the editor

 

The editor seems to be pretty easy to understand though so I may just try to make my own mission. I'm thinking I'll start with just making a simple move->defend->move->defend style mission in one of the towns. And have some of Arma's large scale stuff as part of the ambience around the town. Then as they get more familiar with the game I can start adding new playable roles.

[Midnighters 152]

1 minute ago, scarletomato said:

@Midnighters I definitely understand getting bored because it's too simple, and once we get the mechanics down we'll definitely move to something larger scale, but this is more because they're just so bad at it, between getting constantly sniped without having real way to snipe back (specifically in that "Combined Arms" mission), having to troop across kilometers of terrain in Escape, and getting mowed down by enemy armor and not being able to effectively command the bots it's just frustrating and seems hopeless for them. So they move back to Insurgency because there's at least some hope of winning the match (even though we usually don't XD ).

 

It's a tough crowd I'm trying to win over :) I haven't been able to convince most of them to try out the Campaign, so they're gonna have to learn with me in co-op. I have been dabbling in the Eden Editor some and placing a bunch of AI's down. And it definitely looks like if I can close the gap between my players and the baddies, the AI is much easier when they're ~50 meters away and we can actually pour ammo into them instead of popping off a shot and hoping.

@thirith That sounds like some of what i need! Can you set the accuracy per session via console or something, or does that need to be modified in the mission? I haven't seen that ability yet in the editor

 

The editor seems to be pretty easy to understand though so I may just try to make my own mission. I'm thinking I'll start with just making a simple move->defend->move->defend style mission in one of the towns. And have some of Arma's large scale stuff as part of the ambience around the town. Then as they get more familiar with the game I can start adding new playable roles.

Good to hear you're taking the initiative to better other people. I see a shit ton of people drop the game because they are frustrated and dont know what to do. Good on you. The editor can be a little bit rough once you start scripting and such but thats why there is the editing portion of the forums. Good luck!

[peegee 118]

14 hours ago, Midnighters said:

I think thats what is killing off most is the simplicity. Personally when i first played Arma 2 (when oa wasnt even out yet by the way) i loved playing these massive scale missions that had people fight each other in the way they want to, air, sea, land. We had a hell of a infantry fight whilst there was two fighter jets above trying to ping each other with AA. That i believe needs refreshing in arma 3, combined arms, TvT. Not another altis life, insurgency mission, domination. 

 

Refreshing? You basically described every day at PVP Warfare. 30v30 players kick each others butts daily in combined arms warfare.

That's where I've spent hundreds (thousands really) hours.

[Blackc0bra212 0]

Indeed it's not easy for now players, but it*s Arma. It's a MilSim and I think it has to be challenging, otherwise it would be COD or BF :)

[thirith 27]

13 hours ago, scarletomato said:

@thirith That sounds like some of what i need! Can you set the accuracy per session via console or something, or does that need to be modified in the mission? I haven't seen that ability yet in the editor.

When you host a server and are on the screen where you pick a mission, there should be a button at the bottom that says "Game Options". When you click on it, you can go to the Difficulty tab, and that's where you set up the AI intelligence and accuracy.

 

Blackc0bra: You're right that it's Arma and not CoD, but even difficult games benefit from a gentler learning curve. It's difficult and frustrating to learn the ropes when you play missions where within a minute you're shot by an enemy you can't even see; at the beginning, the game can seem unfair rather than just unforgiving. This can be mitigated by playing in a group with people who know the game and who don't mind acting as mentors (I found the Folk ARPS group very good in this respect), or it can be mitigated by playing missions that are beginner-friendly. I don't think that the coop missions (at least the infantry/combined arms ones) that come with the game are particularly good when it comes to introducing newbies to Arma.

[andersson 285]

The editor is that way to go. Create your own small simple scenarios. Put a few enemies in a small town, take them out with your friends. Expand that scenario with some vehicles. Maybe just go out flying fooling around. That way people get used to the controls, you can have a fun time with stupid things and all learn how to think in this game. It's not only to beat the mission, it's to accept the new boundaries, or lack of them really. If people go in with the notion it's player centered they never will grasp the beauty of this game.

[thirith 27]

In addition to what I said above, I can definitely recommend the Dynamic Recon Ops missions as well as the Firefight missions; the former put together small random missions for you, the latter are missions where you clear out towns with a small team.

[Midnighters 152]

6 hours ago, peegee said:

Refreshing? You basically described every day at PVP Warfare. 30v30 players kick each others butts daily in combined arms warfare.

That's where I've spent hundreds (thousands really) hours.

Indeed, we're in no different positions then my friend. The reason why I say "refreshing" is because upon the initial launch of Dayz I saw a huge drop in players in that field. I'm more or less reflecting now from back then.

I did play before the dayz mod, and I refuse to play it to this day. 30v30 is too small for me, I'm thinking more like 200 would suit my interest. KABOOM.

And sneak in your advertisement all you want, not gonna happen. 

[Midnighters 152]

3 hours ago, thirith said:

In addition to what I said above, I can definitely recommend the Dynamic Recon Ops missions as well as the Firefight missions; the former put together small random missions for you, the latter are missions where you clear out towns with a small team.

Nonsense, DRO is this quick instant gratification crap. I have played it before, and I've seen how players play those kind of missions.

Definitely NOT, the way to go if you're starting off arma 3. It in any sense doesn't allow for the full potential of the game.