Would you be willing to die for your country?

[Sam Samson 0]

for me to align myself with a country, bind myself with an oath of allegiance, and fight in its name would not come easy.

I don't believe that any one country is better than another in and of itself.

for me to die for a nation (or in its name), it would have to be based on certain ideas. I could fight for ideals much easier than for a nation, to be honest.

if push comes to shove I'd be ready to fight for my family, for freedom, and my faith. (in the armed forces of a nation which respects those.)

what for would you lay your life on the line?

[Assault (CAN) 1]

That's a hard question to ask.

I wouldn't be willing to die for anything, I'd be too busy trying to stay alive.    

You know the quote in OFP: 'The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other poor bastard die for his' Or something close to that. Well, it's true.

The question should be: Would you fight for your country? In my case, yes. But that all depends on who we are fighting.

Tyler

EDIT: too, not to.

[FallenPaladin 0]

When I was in the german army three years ago I bound myself with an oath to defend our nation. To do everything to serve it and the people living in it, even to die. And I`m still deadly serious with this oath.

Now it get`s a bit complicated and I hope my english won`t fail me, so you understand:

In my opinion I swore to protect our nation, not only the phrase "Germany". A nation is formed by the people and it`s no matter how it`s called. I would die for the people not for the phrase. Dying for a word is just stupid.

And it`s no question that I would die for my family or my friends or beloved ones. I`d rather die than see them getting hurt. Sacrificing your life for another one that can continue living because of you is the greatest present you can make someone.

But I hope I can avoid such selfsacrifice in future. Living with your people is better than dying for them. Death should be always the last option, but I hope that when my time has come I can face it with dignity.

[Guest]

I think the question is rather typical romantic distortion. You never get the luxury of thinking "would I die for my country". You follow orders. Period.

I agree with Tyler that the question should be "Would you fight for your country?" In my case yes. Not out of some great abstract love for my country but because I would get ordered to. I would never betray the people fighting by me by deserting.

Defensive war - very easy to answer. Yes in any way.

Offensive war - most likely yes. If I was ordered, I would follow the orders.

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sam Samson @ Nov. 09 2002,21:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">for me to align myself with a country, bind myself with an oath of allegiance, and fight in its name would not come easy.

I don't believe that any one country is better than another in and of itself.

for me to die for a nation (or in its name), it would have to be based on certain ideas. I could fight for ideals much easier than for a nation, to be honest.

if push comes to shove I'd be ready to fight for my family, for freedom, and my faith. (in the armed forces of a nation which respects those.)

what for would you lay your life on the line?<span id='postcolor'>

the notion of nation is some kind of ideal in itself ...

i wouldn't be willing to die for a nation , but as said before , to fight for this nation

as denoir said , i would do it if ordered to , but , i think i've more experience than denoir on that subject :

i would fight for the interests of a nation , only if those interests are fairs and the cause is just , i've done too much things to want to do any bad anymore

you sometimes have to think about the possible effects of a military engagements , you can't always trust or at least follow the directives given by the higher echelons of the hierarchy since the inaptitude to lead can be met in every parts of this hierachy

desertion is not always some kind of betrayal of dishonor , there have been a lot of case of desertion during the algeria war in the end of the 50's in france , mainly because the french youth in that time still felt the effects of the past wars , knew about what was really happening in algeria , and also because they didn't think the cause of that war was ok

and i totaly agree with those decisions , we can't judge deserters , they may have good reasons

[OFPunk 0]

As long as Gray Davis is in office and I can't buy assault rifles, no.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (OFPunk @ Nov. 09 2002,23:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As long as Gray Davis is in office and I can't buy assault rifles, no.<span id='postcolor'>

why do you need an assault rifle?

[Harnu 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ Nov. 09 2002,23:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (OFPunk @ Nov. 09 2002,23:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As long as Gray Davis is in office and I can't buy assault rifles, no.<span id='postcolor'>

why do you need an assault rifle?<span id='postcolor'>

Why don't you?

[Tex -USMC- 0]

well, for one, I'm not really planning on killing a large number of people in a short amount of time, and second, we don't need suppressing fire when we go deer hunting around here.

[Harnu 0]

*pssst*  It was a joke, you should just leave it at that.

And on the topic, I plan to fight for my country, not to die for it.

[DarkLight 0]

Here's what i think, i would NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEEEEEEEEEVER want to die for my country or for any other country. A country isn't worth dying for.

If some other country would attack the place where i live then i'd go fight just so i could kill one of those assholes. So those dumb morons can die for THEIR country. Hell, i don't care, as long as that loser dies. And if i'd ever die in battle, then i certainly didn't die for my country. I died protecting my country and i died shooting as much enemies as possible...

Dying for your country is rather stupid actually, it's like a bodyguard saying that he's prepared to die for the person he needs to protect. That's bullshit, he needs to protect them, he doesn't need to die for them. His job is not getting killed.

So really, i'd never want to die for any stupid reason like that...

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Well, I dont know about the deer in your area, but ours are fairly passive. I mean, I know sometimes they get aggressive and then it's smart to have a semiautomatic or two lying around, but it has never gotten to the point where theyve attempted vennison-wave attacks.

PS: yes, Harnu, I know

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ Nov. 09 2002,22:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">as denoir said , i would do it if ordered to , but , i think i've more experience than denoir on that subject :

i would fight for the interests of a nation , only if those interests are fairs and the cause is just , i've done too much things to want to do any bad anymore

you sometimes have to think about the possible effects of a military engagements , you can't always trust or at least follow the directives given by the higher echelons of the hierarchy since the inaptitude to lead can be met in every parts of this hierachy<span id='postcolor'>

I am fortunate to be Swedish; we have not been in a war directly for 200 years. There are two things the Swedish military is trained for: defense and international peace keeping. Therefor I find it very unlikely that my country would order me to be part of an unprovoked aggression on another country or put me in an unethical situation.

On the other hand I did my service with the kustjägarna (costal rangers). We were taught and trained and I am a firm believer that desertion is the most contemptible act possible. My comrades and superiors must be able to trust me, just as I must be able to trust my comrades and those who serve under me. Although the current Swedish policy is to arrest deserters during war time, I would not hesitate one second of executing a deserter on the spot. As a soldier you don't have the big picture. The ones that you have your responsibility to is to the men next to you and the men under you.

[DarkLight 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Nov. 08 2002,23:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think the question is rather typical romantic distortion. You never get the luxury of thinking "would I die for my country". You follow orders. Period.

I agree with Tyler that the question should be "Would you fight for your country?" In my case yes. Not out of some great abstract love for my country but because I would get ordered to. I would never betray the people fighting by me by deserting.

Defensive war - very easy to answer. Yes in any way.

Offensive war - most likely yes. If I was ordered, I would follow the orders.<span id='postcolor'>

Denoir you are going off topic, this topic is:" would you be willing to die for your country", not "would you be willing to fight for your country"!

Don't make me ban you!

[Harnu 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DarkLight @ Nov. 09 2002,23:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Here's what i think, i would NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEEEEEEEEEVER want to die for my country or for any other country.  A country isn't worth dying for.

If some other country would attack the place where i live then i'd go fight just so i could kill one of those assholes.  So those dumb morons can die for THEIR country.  Hell, i don't care, as long as that loser dies.  And if i'd ever die in battle, then i certainly didn't die for my country.  I died protecting my country and i died shooting as much enemies as possible...

Dying for your country is rather stupid actually, it's like a bodyguard saying that he's prepared to die for the person he needs to protect.  That's bullshit, he needs to protect them, he doesn't need to die for them.  His job is not getting killed.

So really, i'd never want to die for any stupid reason like that...<span id='postcolor'>

Dark, that's basically what dying for your country means.  You die fighting for it, protecting it and your people who live in it.

Oh, and I just want an AR to put onto top of my car if I get one with a sunroof. Let's see how many bastards act like an ass to me on the road then!

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Denoir you are going off topic, this topic is:" would you be willing to die for your country", not "would you be willing to fight for your country"!

Don't make me ban you! <span id='postcolor'>

Hm. I think I will rephraze the original question:

"Would DarkLight be willing to get banned for the benifit of the fourm?"

It's a bit hard to tell, but judging by your post, I am leaning towards a yes there

[DarkLight 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Harnu @ Nov. 09 2002,00:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DarkLight @ Nov. 09 2002,23:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Here's what i think, i would NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEEEEEEEEEVER want to die for my country or for any other country.  A country isn't worth dying for.

If some other country would attack the place where i live then i'd go fight just so i could kill one of those assholes.  So those dumb morons can die for THEIR country.  Hell, i don't care, as long as that loser dies.  And if i'd ever die in battle, then i certainly didn't die for my country.  I died protecting my country and i died shooting as much enemies as possible...

Dying for your country is rather stupid actually, it's like a bodyguard saying that he's prepared to die for the person he needs to protect.  That's bullshit, he needs to protect them, he doesn't need to die for them.  His job is not getting killed.

So really, i'd never want to die for any stupid reason like that...<span id='postcolor'>

Dark, that's basically what dying for your country means.  You die fighting for it, protecting it and your people who live in it.

Oh, and I just want an AR to put onto top of my car if I get one with a sunroof.  Let's see how many bastards act like an ass to me on the road then!   <span id='postcolor'>

Well...........

I am not prepared to die for my country, but i am prepared to make other ppl die for their country (if they attack me).

When i die doing this..... well..... that's sad, at least i hope i get some before they get me...

It's pretty hard to explain...

[DarkLight 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Nov. 09 2002,00:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Denoir you are going off topic, this topic is:" would you be willing to die for your country", not "would you be willing to fight for your country"!

Don't make me ban you!   <span id='postcolor'>

Hm. I think I will rephraze the original question:

"Would DarkLight be willing to get banned for the benifit of the fourm?"

It's a bit hard to tell, but judging by your post, I am leaning towards a yes there <span id='postcolor'>

Aaaaah come on, just cuz i was joking around

You gotta be kidding!!

This must be the first time that i post something as a joke in like.... 2 weeks or something!

Oh well...

ps: Goooosh, please start using the angry smilie or the big smile smilie cuz this one really confuses me, it means sooooo much. Or write stuff like this (ironic smilie)...

Thanks...

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DarkLight @ Nov. 09 2002,23:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Goooosh, please start using the angry smilie or the big smile smilie cuz this one  really confuses me, it means sooooo much.  Or write stuff like this (ironic smilie)...

Thanks...<span id='postcolor'>

Why? It is so much more fun seeing you squirm

[Harnu 0]

Dark, being prepared to dye for your country doesn't mean that you will die. It just means if you will be willing to lay your life down to protect your country. And, yes, that you seem to be willing to do.

[DarkLight 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Nov. 09 2002,00:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DarkLight @ Nov. 09 2002,23:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Goooosh, please start using the angry smilie or the big smile smilie cuz this one  really confuses me, it means sooooo much.  Or write stuff like this (ironic smilie)...

Thanks...<span id='postcolor'>

Why? It is so much more fun seeing you squirm <span id='postcolor'>

You evil mod!

And again you post that weird smilie.... *shivers*

I think it's time for Ikonboard to upgrade their smilies!

[ran 0]

there are a few times where you deliberately have to disobey direct orders , i've done it several times on the field and sometimes sanctionned , but most of the time i did it in my interest and in the interest of my men and comrades

the desertion is just a natural elimination of bad elements , and you don't desert if you don't have a good reason or if there's nothing you can't stand , you can always trust the guy near you if you know him and if you've already spent sometime with him , desertion is rare and a deserter before his desertion can be one of your best mates in the unit too ...

the thing i know is that most of the deserters don't desert while on the front or in combat situation

most of the real desertion are made by poor biffins that can't stand military life and that don't know that they can cancel their contract in an administrative and legal manner

seen a few men deserting (was first class in that time, so couldn't do shit except reporting) , those weren't in war time and afaik didn't have any reason to do so , in that case i agree with the fact that deserting is bad , dishonoring and so on ..

but you have to understand that sometimes rebellion , desertion and disobeience are needed from the element occupying the lower rank to make his superiors hearing his voice or at least to make them understand that they are wrong or at least to save their own lives

and desertion also depends of the circumstances , many things have to be taken in account , we can't say that all deserters are really bad persons , and it's sometimes better for them to desert than taying in a combat unit

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Harnu @ Nov. 09 2002,23:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Dark, being prepared to dye for your country doesn't mean that you will die.  It just means if you will be willing to lay your life down to protect your country.  And, yes, that you seem to be willing to do.<span id='postcolor'>

you're never prepared to die , or at least i don't think so (not for me at least)

in most of the occidental countries you're prepared to fight , not to die

you don't want to die , do you ?

dieing is the finality most of the time if you fail

[FallenPaladin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Nov. 09 2002,23:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DarkLight @ Nov. 09 2002,23:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Goooosh, please start using the angry smilie or the big smile smilie cuz this one  really confuses me, it means sooooo much.  Or write stuff like this (ironic smilie)...

Thanks...<span id='postcolor'>

Why? It is so much more fun seeing you squirm <span id='postcolor'>

You`re soooo sweet

[DarkLight 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Harnu @ Nov. 09 2002,00:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Dark, being prepared to dye for your country doesn't mean that you will die.  It just means if you will be willing to lay your life down to protect your country.  And, yes, that you seem to be willing to do.<span id='postcolor'>

Hmmmmm, this shit is confusing, i am prepared to die to make it harder for the invading country. But basically i don't want to die for my country. I know, i know, it probable sounds not right at all but it's something that i can't explain. I don't like the idea of dying for a stupid king and queen, a piece of land, some damn good beer, some damn good chocolat and some nice women!

Oh well... Better get used to my weird brain...