Proper release of the littlebirds

[NavyEEL 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PFC_Mike @ Nov. 11 2002,04:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">so what about the MP5- real or not?<span id='postcolor'>

umm yeah, it's a real gun... lol. if your referring to the question as to whether or not they are used, and whether its silenced or not... when ur in special ops you can pretty much use whatever you want lol. friend of mine in the 160th OWNS his own personal apc lol, dont ask how he "acquired" it... you have connections you wouldnt believe in the world of special ops (aka the Super Swoops). yeah most of them use the mp5 or some other small automatic weapon when flying, and it depends on the mission as well as their personal preference and whats available as to whether its silenced or not. personally id carry a non silenced mp5. if you're ever in a situation where you'd have to use it, it's not like they wouldnt know where you were anyway lol i mean there'd be a HUGE helo wreck there.

[VXR 9]

about the MP5, it depends on the mission if its silenced or not as somone from a UH60 told me

[Tigershark 0]

The choice of the Mp5 being silenced was purely absed on the fact this was the standard MP5 shipped with the game.

I had no idea it generate so much discussion (but then..I didn't know the seats would as well).

I have some info on the 4 people per helo SOP Wardog...I just have to dig it up :-(

[Tigershark 0]

OK...here it is:

Re: 3 people vs 2 on a plank

LittleBirds, all variants, except recon OH-6, do not have seats behind the pilot. That space is for auxilary fuel (and in the case of the AH6, ammunition for the m134s). The LB is a rapid insertion helo, and having troops dismount from inside the helo is unfeasable - takes too long, and too much of a chance to get hung up or delayed.

While specifications say there are 3 operatives per plank, never will you find that being done. Three troops per plank is cramped. When you land, you need to be in position. With three men on a plank its overcroweded and you cannot correctly dismount.

What BAS is doing is correctly portraying the realistic side of the LittleBird.

RE: Seating troops forward on the plank in the position nearest the pilot a la Blackhawkdown.

Duff - the seating position of the troops on the planks is not a set value. In training, we disembarked directly off the sides of the bird, not forward. Why? Dangers from the skids catching equipment in rapid insertions and dragging an operative. What you see in movies may not be entirely true, mate. Yes, the delta boys may position themselves forward to provide cover, but considering the limits of the game and other factors, what BAS is doing is correct. Thanks for your concern, though...

RE: fast Roping from LB's

What you see above each of the cargo doors are the fast roping struts. If a situation arises where it's unsafe to touch down, and the need to repel into the IZ is necessary, they'll throw the ropes from those points. They're also used in rapid extractions, where touching down would spend too much time in a combat zone. A looprope will be attached to each strut, thrown out at the EP and each operative will clip himself to the rope. Fast, easy, effective, but extremely unsafe, and therefore, very rare to see.

[Stag 0]

Thanks for that quick response, Tigershark. I read and understand. One more question for your source, and I'll let it go.

Two littlebirds are sent on a mission. Six troops are being extracted, and something goes wrong with one of the littlebirds. it has to be abandoned at the LZ, its pilot and observer are with the ground troops. One ship remains for the extraction mission. How many people can it carry?

Regarding the seats in the rear of the AH6; Looking in there, the seats appear to phisically exist in front of the ammunition storage. Given what I've read above: when and if you get the chance for updating the model, is there any way of putting some delay into the amount of time it takes to get in/out of there?

[pathfinder 0]

Just gota say great choppers!!! Been waiting along time for some real LB's. And a big thankyou for making some for 1.46!

I love em the way they are, I will never nit pick an addon when people pour this much work into them.

I haven't tried a night mission with them yet but I will soon , can't wait to find out what a mob of these look like in the dark

[Tigershark 0]

@Pathfinder

Thanks for the kind words and recognition of the hard work thats gone into this

@Wardog

Mate...I'm confused. Where are the seats for the AH6 in the following picture?

As I said...ST put seats in the back but it was unrealistic....we discussed removing them and agreed to let the community decide....but realistically speaking...they should not be there.

AH6 Pic

[vade_101 0]

I think what he was trying to say was, if you are going to keep the seats in the AH6 would it be possible to make it slower getting out of those seats.

[Stag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (vade_101 @ Nov. 10 2002,13:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think what he was trying to say was, if you are going to keep the seats in the AH6 would it be possible to make it slower getting out of those seats.<span id='postcolor'>

Quite so.

@Tigershark:

I was talking about the bench which is in the back of the AH6 BAS produced. However, looking at that photo, I'm convinced. They should be removed when it is convenient, and I believe you need to enlarge the ammunition storage too. You may just be able to squeeze someone into that space, but it wouldn't be pretty; You'd need Thundermaker's blender.

For the record; maybe I am nitpicking, But I happen to think that these are by far the best Indepenantly prodced models I have ever seen for OFP. May BAS produce many more of this quality!

[Guest BratZ]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wardog @ Nov. 11 2002,08:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Two littlebirds are sent on a mission. Six troops are being extracted, and something goes wrong with one of the littlebirds. it has to be abandoned at the LZ, its pilot and observer are with the ground troops. One ship remains for the extraction mission. How many people can it carry?<span id='postcolor'>

I know the answer to this and it also makes for a great mission.You spare whatever weapons you can for the people left on the ground until you can return to pick them up!

[Paladin 1]

These birds are great but i noticed some ugly texture bugs in the AH-6's.  One the ammo boxes with the minigun ammo and actually most of the back compartment, the textures look stretched or something.  I've noticed this on other addons but no body seems to do anything about it.  Here's a picture.

[Stag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (BratZ @ Nov. 10 2002,18:01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wardog @ Nov. 11 2002,08:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Two littlebirds are sent on a mission. Six troops are being extracted, and something goes wrong with one of the littlebirds. it has to be abandoned at the LZ, its pilot and observer are with the ground troops. One ship remains for the extraction mission. How many people can it carry?<span id='postcolor'>

I know the answer to this and it also makes for a great mission.You spare whatever weapons you can for the people left on the ground until you can return to pick them up!<span id='postcolor'>

Have you seen "Black Hawk Down?

Don't look at it as a film. Look at it as a real life situation.

[Tigershark 0]

Thanks Wardog.....I think I will remove the seats in the next version....and extend the ammo box.

I will cop shit from addon makers who have added troops to their Ah-6s in game....but hell....you can't please everyone.

I'm wrking on that hypothetical for ya my man.

[Tigershark 0]

OK...Wardog...here is what my man said:

RE Sit: In war, they would probably find the space on the LB or if that could not be done, all of the troops would stay put, pull security and wait for another bird. Once the other bird came they would either demo or call in CAS on the disabled LB. Everthing that is mission oriented is based on METT-T. That is basically the Who, what, when , where. So the NCOIC or OIC of the team would make the call.

(If they had FRIES on the LB hooked up they could SPIE out too)

In peace time you would get off the bird and wait for a truck or other helo.

[Stag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tigershark @ Nov. 11 2002,07:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">RE Sit:  In war, they would probably find the space on the LB or if that could not be done, all of the troops would stay put, pull security and wait for another bird.  <span id='postcolor'>

Which means they could use the space inside the aircraft, and the two extra places on the bench.

In a hot LZ, if it were me, I would  use this option, rather than try to secure a perimiter. In the kind of raid undertaken by Special Forces, I think the situanion on the ground could only get worse with delay. BHD is a prime example; If that helo hadn't been hit, the Somalis would still have been scratching their heads while the US forces were enjoying a beer and a barby. Instead, 19 Americans dead, and approximately 1000 Somalis.  I'm not saying the situation I outlined is identical, but they both have one thing in common, the moral of the story: It doesn't pay to stick around.

Sticking to SOP in the case of troops carried gives a  commander extra options; staying within its boundaries allows greater flexibility in an emergancy.

What you do with this information is of course up to you. Keep up the good work.

I should read what I write before I post!

[miles teg 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wardog @ Nov. 12 2002,12:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tigershark @ Nov. 11 2002,07:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">RE Sit:  In war, they would probably find the space on the LB or if that could not be done, all of the troops would stay put, pull security and wait for another bird.  <span id='postcolor'>

Which means they could use the space inside the aircraft, and the two extra places on the bench.

In a hot LZ, if it were me, I would  use this option, rather than try to secure a perimiter. In the kind of raid undertaken by Special Forces, I think the situanion on the ground could only get worse with delay. BHD is a prime example; If that helo hadn't been hit, the Somalis would still have been scratching their heads while the US forces were enjoying a beer and a barby. Instead, 19 Americans dead, and approximately 1000 Somalis.  I'm not saying the situation I outlined is identical, but they both have one thing in common, the moral of the story: It doesn't pay to stick around.

Sticking to SOP in the case of troops carried gives a  commander extra options; staying within its boundaries allows greater flexibility in an emergancy.

What you do with this information is of course up to you. Keep up the good work.

I should read what I write before I post!<span id='postcolor'>

I agree. In a tactical situation, if you are outnumbered, you always try to extract as quickly as possible or you stay mobile and try to extract yourself from the area (or meet up with a friendly force) unless you can safely secure a landing zone where your extraction helicopters won't get shot down. In Somalia the situation was complicated by the fact that they had wounded who couldn't be moved around so they were forced to set up a hasty defensive perimeter. In that scenario a Little Bird was successful in pulling out some of the wounded. If the AH6 is capable of holding two extra people in the back, then that option should be left in. To the BAS addonmakers....ask your Ranger "advisors" if the AH-6 is capable of picking up two men in an emergency. If it is leave this in. If not, then take it out. Simple as that.

I still disagree with the earlier decision to leave only 4 bench seats on the MH6 simply because it's possible on the real thing and it's good for hostage rescue missions where you don't want a big blackhawk for extraction. The less seats available on your LB's means the more birds needed and thus slower frame rates on missions. By at least keeping the extra seats on the AH-6 (assuming the real thing is capable of holding two extra people) it gives a mission maker some flexibility without being unrealistic. Also please remember that more then just the Army Rangers use the LB's. Delta Force and Special Forces (Green Berets) may have different SOP's when it comes to employing the Little Birds.

So please I beg of you, don't limit the mission maker by taking options out that are within realistic limits.

If you are doing it because it can't be done in real life that's one thing. But if you are doing it, just because you can and because you don't like being criticized, then that's something else. Please remove your ego from the addon and try to look at it from the viewpoint of a mission maker.

Again if the AH-6 CAN NOT in any way ever carry 2 extra people, take the seats out. If the MH-6 can NEVER carry more then 4 people in a real life combat situation, then leave them out. But if they can PLEASE put the extra cargo positions in.

You could also do a poll on the mission maker's section of this forum to see what everyone there wants.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[SelectThis 0]

I guess it's all subjective, I've heard of a UH1H carrying 16 people..when it's only listed at 12...so if we do 6 on the LB's what's to stop someone coming along and saying.. well...you could fit 2 more inside, and then in a pinch throw a few more people acorss their laps, so don't limit it to 6, let us carry 10 people in the LB, because it "could" be possible in a real emergency.

(Hell.. I've had 12 people in a VW Beetle before, and 4 people on a motorbike...maybe we should ask all the car addon makers to put seating in for 12 in their cars and maybe I should add 2 more seats to the Kawasaki KLR250).

Anyway, I have yet to see a mission which allows for an alternative heli to be used for extraction if the primary heli gets hit (then again I don't get to play much! lol). I'm sure it could be done though, but what's to stop the author camcreating another heli if needed?

SelectThis

[miles teg 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SelectThis @ Nov. 12 2002,16:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I guess it's all subjective, I've heard of a UH1H carrying 16 people..when it's only listed at 12...so if we do 6 on the LB's what's to stop someone coming along and saying.. well...you could fit 2 more inside, and then in a pinch throw a few more people acorss their laps, so don't limit it to 6, let us carry 10 people in the LB, because it "could" be possible in a real emergency.

(Hell.. I've had 12 people in a VW Beetle before, and 4 people on a motorbike...maybe we should ask all the car addon makers to put seating in for 12  in their cars and maybe I should add 2 more seats to the Kawasaki KLR250).

Anyway, I have yet to see a mission which allows for an alternative heli to be used for extraction if the primary heli gets hit (then again I don't get to play much! lol). I'm sure it could be done though, but what's to stop the author camcreating another heli if needed?

SelectThis<span id='postcolor'>

Hmm... camcreating is a bit difficult. I've yet to see a tutorial for how to camcreate an additional vehicle AND then name it and give it waypoints on top of that.

Maybe it's possible but if it is I haven't seen it done nor have I seen any tutorials on how to do that.

However I have made missions where there are backup helicopters that are triggered to take off and extract your troops if the first extraction helicopter is destroyed. It's difficult to do but possible.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[Stag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SelectThis @ Nov. 11 2002,19:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I guess it's all subjective, I've heard of a UH1H carrying 16 people..when it's only listed at 12...so if we do 6 on the LB's what's to stop someone coming along and saying.. well...you could fit 2 more inside, and then in a pinch throw a few more people acorss their laps, so don't limit it to 6, let us carry 10 people in the LB, because it "could" be possible in a real emergency.

(Hell.. I've had 12 people in a VW Beetle before, and 4 people on a motorbike...maybe we should ask all the car addon makers to put seating in for 12  in their cars and maybe I should add 2 more seats to the Kawasaki KLR250).

Anyway, I have yet to see a mission which allows for an alternative heli to be used for extraction if the primary heli gets hit (then again I don't get to play much! lol). I'm sure it could be done though, but what's to stop the author camcreating another heli if needed?

SelectThis<span id='postcolor'>

When I've written missions, I don't think I've done one yet where the team has only had a single aircraft available, for the sake of redundancy (SOP).

If both go down, I specify an alternate way out for survivors; eg, link up with the Resistance.

[TaNK_Em 0]

Once again 4 is ok with me hell 12 people in a VW? its hard enough to get are family into a SUV without people killing eachother

[Stag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Miles Teg @ Nov. 11 2002,17:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> If the AH6 is capable of holding two extra people in the back, then that option should be left in.   To the BAS addonmakers....ask your Ranger "advisors" if the AH-6 is capable of picking up two men in an emergency.<span id='postcolor'>

Take a look at the photo. After seeing it, I wouldn't even try to put anyone in there unless I hated them!

[VXR 9]

maybe we will bring out a other version after the current projects are done for now we first want to finish the running projects

[Guest BratZ]

We have riden 3 people on a little Yamaha Jr50 dirtbike also,and its smaller than a bicycle.

And how come BIS new bicycle doesnt carry a person on the handlebars...hasnt everyone done this?

I'm just being sarcastic about that, but I have a question.

I see msgs here from STT saying he fixed some things or updated,but when I go to get the new file its still ver 1.1

Did I happen to get to the file after it was changed?

And I must say I'm in love with BAS after reviewing their webpage again,just so happens I like choppers alot and every work in progress is an awesome chopper!!

And in another note,what else is planned?

Give us forum users some inside info

[Jester983 0]

BAS known projects

Hope that answers your question.

[Tigershark 0]

@Wardog and Teg

Guys read what he said carefully.....he said IF it was possible theyd try and get out. Now in Wardogs scenario he is talking about fitting 10 troops into an LB....physically possible....but I doubt it would get off the ground....it doesn't have the grunt. The new MELB (mission enhanced Littlebird) with new engine might pull it off....

Anyway...it's all academic....just use 2 choppers. As for the Ah-6...there is a good chance we'll remove the seating in the next version.

Regarding new projects.....well what I can tell you is that our SEALS and Deltas are coming along nicely.

We have a MH-47E working OK now........I have recently spoken to someone regarding a Navy HH-60G with facility for a SEAL sniper to fire from the gunner position.

We are also considering several Russian units...we wanna kick off a russian pack soon. We also plank on addin Gonks Flare pistol to the SOAR pilot. And we may address the MP5 silenced gun issue.

Lots going on.....niot enough time to do it....or skinners...we need GOOD skinners.