‘i yelled at them to stop’

[Frisbee 0]

Hey,a soldier isn't supposed to think is he? [\ironymode]

Just really,really stupid reasoning by those soldiers,they were probably thinking that they'd 'show those ragheads who's boss'

The American education system shows its greatness across the world.

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ Oct. 15 2002,16:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"No,I mean that when people don't want to be there.They're not going care for anything."

That's a load of bull. According to that statement, people turn into complete animals just because they are doing something they don't like? Newsflash, you don't become an asshole just because you have been drafted. And the draft is not an excuse for acting like a retard. The stupid and week of mind turn into animals maybe, and that is a problem. They would probably do stupid things anyway though.<span id='postcolor'>

no, but putting them into life-death situation will bring worst inside of anyone.

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ Oct. 15 2002,16:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"The Americans who rebelled against england did not go to England 3 years after the war of Independence was over in order to bomb civilians"

So, the war is over in Chechnya and everything is fine and dandy?<span id='postcolor'>

Youre not listening. It WAS over in 1996 and everything WAS fine and dandy, but the Chechens desided the Jihad wasn't over, attempted to take Dagestan, and bombed 300 Russian civilians

[Longinius 1]

"no, but putting them into life-death situation will bring worst inside of anyone."

That is true, but not an excuse. Especially not when we are talking about a squad of highly armed and well trained soldiers kicking down doors in mud buildings owned by old farmers.

"Youre not listening. It WAS over in 1996 and everything WAS fine and dandy, but the Chechens desided the Jihad wasn't over, attempted to take Dagestan, and bombed 300 Russian civilians"

And again, a couple of Chechens bomb a civilian target and that tells you war is OK? Kind if like when a certain terrorist organisation bombed the WTC which made it OK to in turn start a war that killed atleast as many civilians as the terror attack, without even resulting in the destruction of the original terrorists?

[DarkLight 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SirLoins @ Oct. 14 2002,06:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It's a shame we are forced into this situation by AQ terrorist.

Of course none of this would otherwise happen.

Bad things happen during war.

Of course you said nothing months ago when a US soldier was brutally murdered by AQ after being shot down in a chopper.

They take no prisoners.

There's quite a few US haters on this forum, but Chill, you take the cake.<span id='postcolor'>

I'm not a US hater, but i'd want every prisoner dead too if i knew that a couple prisoned guys would be a great reason to start a war to 'rescue' these men.

As someone already said, these men were soldiers, being killed by other soldiers.

Anyway, if you ask me this also is one of the reason why invading countries isn't smart at all. 'Course everyone thinks that all the ppl will be very happy because allied forces have rescued them from AQ, but actually i bet stuff like this happens a lot more than we think. Same goes for Iraq, everyone who supports an invasion of Iraq might think that the civilians will totally support the allied forces. But as far as i know stuff like this will happen too....

[E6Hotel 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Chill @ Oct. 15 2002,15:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So its alright to kill and torture civilans so that we can all live in a terrorist free world? <snip> 3000 AQ suspect were rounded up by the US and dissapeared in the desert. Um I wonder why the USA don't want anything to do with the International Courts?

<span id='postcolor'>

(1) Show me one iota of evidence that U.S. troops did this. Don't try and blame us for Afghani actions.

(2) PLEASE don't (1) above and in the next sentence ask why we don't buy into the ICC. I can only process so much irony in a 24 hour period.

According to the article, an old guy was tackled and his wife was frisked. Incidents like that are idiotic and make it harder to "win hearts and minds," but to compare them to killing and torturing civilians is stupid.  

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Denoir @ Oct. 15 2002,1002)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As we all know, USA always takes prisoners and treats them with respect  <span id='postcolor'>

You know the difference between surrendering and retreating. Do you have any evidence that surrendering Iraqi soldiers were not treated in accordance with the Geneva Convention?

Semper Fi

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ Oct. 15 2002,16:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"no, but putting them into life-death situation will bring worst inside of anyone."

That is true, but not an excuse. Especially not when we are talking about a squad of highly armed and well trained soldiers kicking down doors in mud buildings owned by old farmers.

"Youre not listening. It WAS over in 1996 and everything WAS fine and dandy, but the Chechens desided the Jihad wasn't over, attempted to take Dagestan, and bombed 300 Russian civilians"

And again, a couple of Chechens bomb a civilian target and that tells you war is OK? Kind if like when a certain terrorist organisation bombed the WTC which made it OK to in turn start a war that killed atleast as many civilians as the terror attack, without even resulting in the destruction of the original terrorists?<span id='postcolor'>

since when was US military considered competent here?

but on Chechen issue, I side with Tovarish. Chechen's attack on apt was not necessary. Russia pulled out, and that's what they wanted. however, they got cocky and thought they could do whatever they wanted. bad idea.

they just lost their moral cause.

[Die Alive 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">After the mission, the two SF teams submitted an “after-action review.†NEWSWEEK has not seen the document, but sources say it describes in detail the problems the teams witnessed and suggests ways to avoid such problems in the future. The report set off a storm of recriminations. Col. James Huggins, commander of Task Force Panther, of which the Third Battalion is a part, says every platoon and squad leader in the battalion was questioned under oath, and their statements did not support the teams’ charges. “I can’t tell you 100 percent these things didn’t happen,†says Huggins. “All I can tell you is I looked, and can’t find any evidence that they did.†Officers involved have been accused of leaking classified reports to NEWSWEEK, and have been subjected to internal investigations<span id='postcolor'>

According to this guy, none of the abuse ever happened. Now I can sleep in peace knowing this is just some fiction written by some Newsweek reporter.

-=Die Alive=-

[DarkLight 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Die Alive @ Oct. 14 2002,15:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Julemanden @ Oct. 15 2002,05:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Does Nam ring a bell any1?<span id='postcolor'>

You mean when the communists killed school teachers, doctors, catholic missionaries, and political leaders and just regular farmers who wouldn't give up their rice to them?

-=Die Alive=-<span id='postcolor'>

Hmz, sounds a bit weird to me, anyway, that's nothing compared to what some allied forces have done there...

I've seen a lot of impressive stuff done by allied forces, and the ppl that were harmed/killed/whatever didn't do anything at all. Basically it was just killing for fun... And yes, i'm talking about innocent civilians being killed and yes, i still have trouble thinking about those images...

[DarkLight 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Die Alive @ Oct. 14 2002,18:01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">After the mission, the two SF teams submitted an “after-action review.†NEWSWEEK has not seen the document, but sources say it describes in detail the problems the teams witnessed and suggests ways to avoid such problems in the future. The report set off a storm of recriminations. Col. James Huggins, commander of Task Force Panther, of which the Third Battalion is a part, says every platoon and squad leader in the battalion was questioned under oath, and their statements did not support the teams’ charges. “I can’t tell you 100 percent these things didn’t happen,†says Huggins. “All I can tell you is I looked, and can’t find any evidence that they did.†Officers involved have been accused of leaking classified reports to NEWSWEEK, and have been subjected to internal investigations<span id='postcolor'>

According to this guy, none of the abuse ever happened.  Now I can sleep in peace knowing this is just some fiction written by some Newsweek reporter.

-=Die Alive=-<span id='postcolor'>

Please tell me you are joking, the mods use so much variations on those smilies that i never know exactly what ppl are trying to say!!!!

[Longinius 1]

"You know the difference between surrendering and retreating. Do you have any evidence that surrendering Iraqi soldiers were not treated in accordance with the Geneva Convention?"

Well, we have proof that various citizens around the world are held captive by America and not given a fair trial or any treatment corresponding with the Geneva convention. Is that good enough?

"but on Chechen issue, I side with Tovarish. Chechen's attack on apt was not necessary. Russia pulled out, and that's what they wanted. however, they got cocky and thought they could do whatever they wanted. bad idea."

Well, the attack on the Russian civilians, was it performed by a minority of people or was it an official attack by Chechnya?

[E6Hotel 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ Oct. 15 2002,18:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well, we have proof that various citizens around the world are held captive by America and not given a fair trial or any treatment corresponding with the Geneva convention. Is that good enough?<span id='postcolor'>

It is not, if the "highway of death" is being presented as a case where the U.S. abused prisoners.

W/ Gitmo, some would argue that the "citizens" there aren't covered by the GC, but are still being treated reasonably well. If you call being blindfolded while in transit "torture," that's your business.

Semper Fi

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ Oct. 15 2002,18:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"but on Chechen issue, I side with Tovarish. Chechen's attack on apt was not necessary. Russia pulled out, and that's what they wanted. however, they got cocky and thought they could do whatever they wanted. bad idea."

Well, the attack on the Russian civilians, was it performed by a minority of people or was it an official attack by Chechnya?<span id='postcolor'>

did Chechen gov't cooperate with Russia in catching those who are responsible and condemn attack?

with your logic, claming that a small group of ppl's action cannot justify punishment of gov't, then I can see no reason to condemn what happened when Israel militia went killing spree in 79(?).

[Longinius 1]

"did Chechen gov't cooperate with Russia in catching those who are responsible and condemn attack?

with your logic, claming that a small group of ppl's action cannot justify punishment of gov't, then I can see no reason to condemn what happened when Israel militia went killing spree in 79(?)."

I dont know how the Chechnian government reacted, that is why I asked. It doesnt really matter though. It is aparantly acceptable to you that the Soviet Union occupied their lands to start with, but it is not acceptable that they strike back. Attacking civilians is never right, but if the attack on Russia that day was not done by the Chechnian government, then Chechnya shouldnt be held accountable.

[Cloney 0]

This forum has turned into a haven of US Haters. Maybe one day all of us Americans will leave and you can argue with yourselves...

Im sure your country's armed forces all have a clean record. Im sure none of your Armed forces have commited any atrocities because remember, only the American army has ever commited an Atrocity.

Atrocities by various armies in Somalia, and don't claim they did this shit because they were under the UN Flag. If you do you deserve to be castrated.

http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/terrace/lf41/na/nov97/nacs1103.htm

[Placebo 29]

Do you actually understand the meaning of the word hate? If you did then you wouldn't say silly things like "US Haters" if someone has a difference of opinion about something it's simply that, difference of opinion, this whole paranoia thing about EU hating USA is frankly silly, not everyone will agree with everything you do, that's life, deal with it

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ Oct. 15 2002,16:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"Youre not listening. It WAS over in 1996 and everything WAS fine and dandy, but the Chechens desided the Jihad wasn't over, attempted to take Dagestan, and bombed 300 Russian civilians"

And again, a couple of Chechens bomb a civilian target and that tells you war is OK? Kind if like when a certain terrorist organisation bombed the WTC which made it OK to in turn start a war that killed atleast as many civilians as the terror attack, without even resulting in the destruction of the original terrorists?<span id='postcolor'>

Again you seem to be ignoring some of the facts I'm posting . Shortly before the appartment bombings took place, Chechnya attempted to invade the neighbouring Russian province of Dagestan.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">7 August 1999

The conflict begins with an invasion of the Botlikh region of Dagestan by militants from Chechnya. An estimated 1,000 - 1,200 fighters seize several villages and small towns on the Chechen-Dagestani border

<span id='postcolor'>

Dagestan Conflict: a Day-by-day Timeline

<span style='color:red'>*edit*</span> damn I'm tired, forgot for a minute that August comes before September....

...and as for the war in Afghanistan, if the Taliban had turned Osama bin Laden over, this whole mess would have been avoided.

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

From what I read the 82nd Airborn guys did wrong. The Americans who fought for thier freedom where not terriost, but people who fought for a great cuase and produced the greatest nation on earth, imo. There are many reasons why I support Russia over Checheny, some I cannot post.

[fraggit 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ Oct. 15 2002,16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There are many reasons why I support Russia over Checheny, some I cannot post. <!--emo&<span id='postcolor'>

I think most people here have a pretty good idea what those reasons are....

Back on topic: Those guys did act unprofessional, seems like they were itching for some combat and got carried away. That definetly won't sway the hearts of the Afghanis. But what they did definetly isn't as bad as torturing, terrorizing, or raping civilians, as some armies have done.....

[Julemanden 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Die Alive @ Oct. 15 2002,14:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Julemanden @ Oct. 15 2002,05:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Does Nam ring a bell any1?<span id='postcolor'>

You mean when the communists killed school teachers, doctors, catholic missionaries, and political leaders and just regular farmers who wouldn't give up their rice to them?

-=Die Alive=-<span id='postcolor'>

Actually...

I was thinking about when the US killed a couple thousind civilians beacuse.... "There were no other targets - and they looked harmful.... Well atleast they didnt look American."

[Julemanden 0]

6--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DarkLight @ Oct. 15 2002,176)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Die Alive @ Oct. 14 2002,18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">After the mission, the two SF teams submitted an “after-action review.†NEWSWEEK has not seen the document, but sources say it describes in detail the problems the teams witnessed and suggests ways to avoid such problems in the future. The report set off a storm of recriminations. Col. James Huggins, commander of Task Force Panther, of which the Third Battalion is a part, says every platoon and squad leader in the battalion was questioned under oath, and their statements did not support the teams’ charges. “I can’t tell you 100 percent these things didn’t happen,†says Huggins. “All I can tell you is I looked, and can’t find any evidence that they did.†Officers involved have been accused of leaking classified reports to NEWSWEEK, and have been subjected to internal investigations<span id='postcolor'>

According to this guy, none of the abuse ever happened.  Now I can sleep in peace knowing this is just some fiction written by some Newsweek reporter. <!--emo&

-=Die Alive=-<span id='postcolor'>

Please tell me you are joking, the mods use so much variations on those smilies that i never know exactly what ppl are trying to say!!!!<span id='postcolor'>

Dont ever compare what the US-forces are doing, to what NATO stands for - that is really a depressing fealing.

/Edit:

Hmm - I wonder why the board qouted me on something else than I clicked it to do... Anyway, I might have clicked the wrong "quote" button - but it was still a darklight post on the previous page.

[Julemanden 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ Oct. 15 2002,14:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Chill what country you from? Afraid to tell us?  As much as I hate to say it the army might have to treat civilans harshly to get the to help, which could save lives. Chechen rebels are terriost, and I hope Russia complety defeats them, along with us completely defeating Iraq, or whoever else we might fight. <span id='postcolor'>

Yes, lets kill all these civilians who might become a threat in 100 years - afterall, Bush did show us evidence that Saddam had been building nuclear weapons... or atleast had a factory rebuilt.... But still, this factory COULD be producing nuclear warheads - and the planet COULD be flat.

And if Bush tell us the world is flat, it MUST be flat - since Bush is extremely intelligent - afterall, he is the president over the most intelligent country in the world... okay, maybe not the most intelligent.... but the country with the best technology!!!... Uhm... okay....The most people!!!!... Uhm, not quite.... but atleast they have the biggest Ego.

I mean... 500 muslim priest just declared JIHAD against the US if they would attack Iraq. You might say I wouldnt have the guts, but if I were Bush, I wouldnt declare any war against Iraq. And if I were Bush and like him desperately needed votes, and I could only see that either dead bodies or a war would get me votes, I would send in some special team to kill Saddam, dressed as Palestinian women.... I mean - doesnt he have any brain - evil tricks never been a horseshoe for the US before.

[Chill 0]

My point is that the USA blames and points the finger at so many othe people but doesnt even dare to look at its own actions. This is a sad state of affairs. If people in power would take more care to understand the motives of the terrorist acts which have occured more often now, then we would be on the road to a more peaceful world.

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Chill @ Oct. 16 2002,01:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">This is a sad state of affairs. If people in power would take more care to understand the motives of the terrorist acts which have occured more often now, then we would be on the road to a more peaceful world.<span id='postcolor'>

For once I actually agree with you on something. But this still does not excuse the terrorist actions, and the sad thing is, so many of these people are brainwashed into hatred by their spiritual leaders, they won't even consider peace. There just isn't an easy solution.

[SirLoins 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">denoir

Posted: Oct. 15 2002,102

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote (SirLoins @ Oct. 15 2002,05:37)

It's a shame we are forced into this situation by AQ terrorist.

Of course none of this would otherwise happen.

Bad things happen during war.

You could elaborate it further if you wish: It's a shame that you are forced into this situation by the blowback of your own foreign policy. Of course none of this would otherwise happen

Quote

Of course you said nothing months ago when a US soldier was brutally murdered by AQ after being shot down in a chopper.

It is not comparable in any way. He was a soldier, killed by other soldiers. The article that Chill found was about military personell harassing civilians.

Quote

They take no prisoners.

As we all know, USA always takes prisoners and treats them with respect

<span id='postcolor'>

It's all about the US.

Our foreign policy saved the MidEast from Saddam 10 years ago, we just didn't finish the job.

Do you think he would have stopped with Kuwaitt?

It would be a sad day if we treated prisoners the way the terrorist do, by dragging their dead bodies through the streets.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Cloney Posted on Oct. 15 2002,22:12

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This forum has turned into a haven of US Haters. Maybe one day all of us Americans will leave and you can argue with yourselves...

<span id='postcolor'>

If they would just try to understand us half as much as they try to understand the terrorist, they wouldn't hate us so much.