‘i yelled at them to stop’

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Chill @ Oct. 16 2002,01:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My point is that the USA blames and points the finger at so many othe people but doesnt even dare to look at its own actions. This is a sad state of affairs. If people in power would take more care to understand the motives of the terrorist acts which have occured more often now, then we would be on the road to a more peaceful world.<span id='postcolor'>

Chill, you are way out of line pal- where else in the world would a major national media outlet pick up and run a story that openly questions the military's practices? Hmmm?

The very fact that this story is being run demonstrates that the US is not nearly as bad as you CONTINUALLY claim it to be. Also, you studiously ignored that US special forces are the erstwhile 'good guys' in the story- rather, you have the gall to call some of the best trained soldiers in the world clowns in the title.

If anything, this story is a case of combat troops being misused in a type of conflict the US Army (with the exception of SF forces) has had little experience with. Yeah, the guy and his family was frisked. Amazingly enough, I don't really see how this could possibly put the US in the same league as a guy who gasses his own people, or people who are willing to kill themselves and take 3,000 people with them.

Stow the rhetoric.

[ralphwiggum 6]

plz. let's keep flame off.

[Chill 0]

I am not saying Saddam or any other countries are right but the US think they are way above the law and that they are the law!

Ok Saddam uses gases to kill its people and the US use the electric chair.

All Empires have their day. I see that the US has its first crack showing. We had the Romans/Cesaer then France/Napoleon Germany/Hitler, England, USSR and Now USA/Israel with Bush/Sharon. As history has shown us that empire building last only a short time for people who let their ego's/power get to them.

The one thing I am worried about is who is going to be the next empire after the US?

[Julemanden 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Chill @ Oct. 16 2002,07:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I am not saying Saddam or any other countries are right but the US think they are way above the law and that they are the law!

Ok Saddam uses gases to kill its people and the US use the electric chair.

All Empires have their day. I see that the US has its first crack showing. We had the Romans/Cesaer then France/Napoleon Germany/Hitler, England, USSR and Now USA/Israel with Bush/Sharon. As history has shown us that empire building last only a short time for people who let their ego's/power get to them.

The one thing I am worried about is who is going to be the next empire after the US?<span id='postcolor'>

There won't be any empire after the US - hence my signature.

[Longinius 1]

"Chill, you are way out of line pal- where else in the world would a major national media outlet pick up and run a story that openly questions the military's practices? Hmmm?"

Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Finland, Iceland, Germany, France, Belgium, Britain, Australia and Switzerland? Just a couple of examples...

"Also, you studiously ignored that US special forces are the erstwhile 'good guys' in the story- rather, you have the gall to call some of the best trained soldiers in the world clowns in the title."

I agree with you here. The SF people in the story are obviously straight up, honorable guys. The story is about the not so honorable people in the US Armed Forces, not the Armed Forces as such.

"There won't be any empire after the US - hence my signature."

Of course there will be new empires, its just a question of time.

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My point is that the USA blames and points the finger at so many othe people but doesnt even dare to look at its own actions. This is a sad state of affairs. If people in power would take more care to understand the motives of the terrorist acts which have occured more often now, then we would be on the road to a more peaceful world. <span id='postcolor'>

Yea Europe always looks down on all the bad things they are doing. The world will never be peaceful, until a rather large event happens, that will happen. The terriost are pure evil, nothing more.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ok Saddam uses gases to kill its people and the US use the electric chair.

All Empires have their day. I see that the US has its first crack showing. We had the Romans/Cesaer then France/Napoleon Germany/Hitler, England, USSR and Now USA/Israel with Bush/Sharon. As history has shown us that empire building last only a short time for people who let their ego's/power get to them.

The one thing I am worried about is who is going to be the next empire after the US?<span id='postcolor'>

All we want here in the U.S. is to have an empire. As for us killing our people with the elitric chair, well the ones we killed most likely deserved it. Im guessing you dont support the death penalty, and consider it the same things as what sadam did.............

[Frisbee 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ Oct. 16 2002,04:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Chill @ Oct. 16 2002,01:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My point is that the USA blames and points the finger at so many othe people but doesnt even dare to look at its own actions. This is a sad state of affairs. If people in power would take more care to understand the motives of the terrorist acts which have occured more often now, then we would be on the road to a more peaceful world.<span id='postcolor'>

Chill, you are way out of line pal- where else in the world would a major national media outlet pick up and run a story that openly questions the military's practices? Hmmm?

The very fact that this story is being run demonstrates that the US is not nearly as bad as you CONTINUALLY claim it to be. Also, you studiously ignored that US special forces are the erstwhile 'good guys' in the story- rather, you have the gall to call some of the best trained soldiers in the world clowns in the title.

If anything, this story is a case of combat troops being misused in a type of conflict the US Army (with the exception of SF forces) has had little experience with. Yeah, the guy and his family was frisked. Amazingly enough, I don't really see how this could possibly put the US in the same league as a guy who gasses his own people, or people who are willing to kill themselves and take 3,000 people with them.

Stow the rhetoric.<span id='postcolor'>

Belgian soldiers have been tried because of some incidents in Somalia I believe,or Rwanda.

Soldiers posing on corpses and forcing people to eat or drink some food,can't remember,was a reasonable while back.

Tieing someone above a fire too ,and they were punished for it too.

Hope it shows that us 'US haters' dare to say that we did wrong as well,we're not saying we're saints.

[Julemanden 0]

Whats the difference in flying into a civilian building killing 3000 innicent people, and pressing a button that releases the bomb that kill 3000 innicent people in a civilian town?

[Longinius 1]

The difference is that the first was done by terrorists opposing America and the second was done by America and considered collateral damage?

[bwenke75 0]

"I am not saying Saddam or any other countries are right but .

The one thing I am worried about is who is going to be the next empire after the US?"

I"ll bet its not going to be Australia...

[cybrid 0]

I bet its going to be a middle east based country, noone else has the balls. You can't create an empire with Liberal Government.

[E6Hotel 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Chill @ Oct. 16 2002,07:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">All Empires have their day. I see that the US has its first crack showing.<span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bwenke75 @ Oct. 16 2002,16:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The one thing I am worried about is who is going to be the next empire after the US?<span id='postcolor'>

When exactly did we become an "empire?" Superpower, yes. Empire, no.

Semper Fi

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Whats the difference in flying into a civilian building killing 3000 innicent people, and pressing a button that releases the bomb that kill 3000 innicent people in a civilian town?

<span id='postcolor'>

first one had not much legit reason and was done in purpose, second is by product/collateral damage from mistakes. with your simplification, i can argue that Europe is by far the worst bunch of nations with their atrocities ranging from days of dawn of civilization.

[cybrid 0]

uh, ralph, I think thats oversimplification. Unless you intended [sarchasm] [/sarchasm]

[Julemanden 0]

Oh... so as long as you call it a "mistake" its okay to kill people?

"But oh dear Judge, I was merely pointing the gun at him, and the thing just accidently went off"

"oh... well, why are you sitting inhere then? Go out and celebrate your "mistake".

[E6Hotel 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Julemanden @ Oct. 16 2002,18:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Oh... so as long as you call it a "mistake" its okay to kill people?

"But oh dear Judge, I was merely pointing the gun at him, and the thing just accidently went off"

"oh... well, why are you sitting inhere then? Go out and celebrate your "mistake".<span id='postcolor'>

Let me pose a hypothetical: A man has a gun to a hostage's head. After negotiating with him for oh, about a month, the police finally decide to authorize force and green-light a sniper. Unfortunately, despite his high-tech equipment, extensive training, and noble intentions, the sniper hits the hostage. Is it the sniper's fault because he's not perfect, or is the hostage-taker's fault for creating the situation in the first place?

The moral of the story is that when cowardly criminals (or terrorists or whatever you want to call them) hide among non-combatants, the non-combatants occasionally die. It's not "okay," but THAT'S THE WAY IT IS. The blame should be placed at the feet of the people who create the situation.

Semper Fi

[Placebo 29]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (E6Hotel @ Oct. 16 2002,17:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Is it the sniper's fault because he's not perfect, or is the hostage-taker's fault for creating the situation in the first place?<span id='postcolor'>

Clearly in that instance it is the fault of the movie makers who made the movies the hostage-taker watched and the game makers of the games the hostage-taker played

[E6Hotel 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (placebo @ Oct. 16 2002,19:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Clearly in that instance it is the fault of the movie makers who made the movies the hostage-taker watched and the game makers of the games the hostage-taker played <span id='postcolor'>

D'oh!

Root-cause analysis never was my bag.

Semper Fi

[Assault (CAN) 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">When exactly did we become an "empire?" Superpower, yes. Empire, no.<span id='postcolor'>

Give it time, a few hundred years perhaps. Or worse yet, even sooner.

[E6Hotel 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Assault (CAN) @ Oct. 16 2002,19:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Give it time, a few hundred years perhaps. Or worse yet, even sooner.  <span id='postcolor'>

Nah. If we were going to take over the world we'd have done it before 1949.

Semper Fi

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Julemanden @ Oct. 16 2002,18:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Oh... so as long as you call it a "mistake" its okay to kill people?

"But oh dear Judge, I was merely pointing the gun at him, and the thing just accidently went off"<span id='postcolor'>

but is it ok to hold a mistake and condemn the person who made mistake to eternity of criticism? then i say Europe is the colonist who brought this whole ME thing since they are the ones who colonized

did pointing a gun to head had legit reason? no. but if the person was getting attacked by an assailant and was pointing the gun in that direction and it went off, then it's mistake.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"oh... well, why are you sitting inhere then? Go out and celebrate your "mistake".<span id='postcolor'>

with that logic, I can ban you as i wish since it was a mistake ... just kidding!

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

I love it, this constant struggle to keep the reputation of the Heroes!

Reminds of the fact that the US once sponsored Iraq (druing the Iran-war) even though they knew Iraq has no moral remources of using b-weapons. Now they are the threat of the world.

The pictures constantly change. kind of opportunistic. Therefore I also say that it is not the fault of the soldiers but of the politicians. Of course some of them get anoyed! what the hell are they still doing there? Their search and investigations have been without any results for weeks. Everyday they have a hard time to decide whether a grandma that cooks bread for more than herself is a terorist supplying Al Quaida with resources. It was the same with Vietnam, people get frustrated if they dont cant cope with a situation that appears ridiculous.

[Julemanden 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ Oct. 16 2002,22:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Julemanden @ Oct. 16 2002,18:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Oh... so as long as you call it a "mistake" its okay to kill people?

"But oh dear Judge, I was merely pointing the gun at him, and the thing just accidently went off"<span id='postcolor'>

but is it ok to hold a mistake and condemn the person who made mistake to eternity of criticism? then i say Europe is the colonist who brought this whole ME thing since they are the ones who colonized

did pointing a gun to head had legit reason? no. but if the person was getting attacked by an assailant and was pointing the gun in that direction and it went off, then it's mistake.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"oh... well, why are you sitting inhere then? Go out and celebrate your "mistake".<span id='postcolor'>

with that logic, I can ban you as i wish since it was a mistake  ... just kidding!<span id='postcolor'>

Sure you can call it a mistake...

... But you dont use a shutgun (spreader) as a sniper, do you?

That would be pretty stupid since you would know that it probably would hit other innicent people as well...

... This is also why they dont execute people with grenades on point blank.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

You guys are missing the fact that this is just not that big a deal, and US forces are already reaping the backlash from this kind of behavior. Using this as a precedence to proclaim the evils of America is not only stupid, but just plain dishonest.

[Sam Samson 0]

mmh. hmm.

well, we should just drop a few of our peaceniks into the theater with the 82nd to go out for 6 days and hunt down aqs.

puts you into a real tranquil frame of mind.

if they fire at you, just catch the bullet and eat it.

better yet: invite'm to your support group and explain to them what their real motives are.

and, just to be on the safe side, supply them with a picture of bin laden to walk on or shoot at. (you can try to sneak a W pic in if you're brave.)

what do you guys expect? a gardening club giving knitting lessons?

the 82nd airborne are the awfullest, wickedest... dogs of war!

they're trained into a one track mind! they are the fiercest killers on earth. they sleep with knives between their teeth.

blast it, their looks can kill you!

al quaida on the other hand strokes lambs.

and the special forces, green berets, ..., well.

few folks are worthy to even lick their boots. though many have tried.