World Politics General

[mistyronin 1181]

I guess you can't accept reality Crimea is Russian and it's only supported by Russia for their decision !!! Why someone need to recognize it we don't need that for sure !

:confused: :cool: :D :ok: :292: FPDR

- - -

Going back to the maps thing...

(click for zoomed version)

Edited July 6, 2015 by MistyRonin

[oxmox 73]

now its getting low :D

btw, same "artist" which created a world map with the view of Americans ?

[mistyronin 1181]

btw, same "artist" which created a world map with the view of Americans ?

Hahaha yeah:

[oxmox 73]

Hahaha yeah:

:biggrin_o:

Rivals Pakistan, India to start process of joining China security bloc

Nuclear-armed rivals Pakistan and India will start the process of joining a security bloc

led by China and Russia at a summit in Russia later this week

The Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) groups China, Russia and the former Soviet republics of Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan, while India, Pakistan, Iran, Afghanistan and Mongolia are observers.

The grouping was originally formed to fight threats posed by radical Islam and drug trafficking from neighbouring Afghanistan.

India and Pakistan have fought three wars since 1947, two of them over the divided Muslim-majority region of Kashmir which they both claim in full but rule in part. Pakistan also believes India is supporting separatists in resource-rich Baluchistan province, as well as militants fighting the state.

India applied to join the regional security grouping last year and SCO foreign ministers gave a positive recommendation when they met in June. "We await further developments," said Sujata Mehta, a senior foreign ministry official.

Prime Minister Narendra Modi will be in Moscow for a summit of the BRICS group of emerging markets and both he and his Pakistani counterpart, Nawaz Sharif, will attend a special SCO "outreach" session as part of the gathering.

Pakistan's application is being considered, said foreign ministry spokesman Qazi Khalilullah. "We hope they will support us for full membership," he added.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/06/china-russia-pakistan-india-security-idUSKCN0PG09520150706

Canadian flew over Calgary in chair carried by balloons (for the video follow the link)

A man who tied about 100 helium balloons to a garden chair and flew over the Canadian

city of Calgary has been charged with causing mischief.

Daniel Boria, 26, told police he was planning on parachuting into the Calgary Stampede, a rodeo event, to promote his cleaning-products company.

Mr Boria said he "somersaulted out the chair" and parachuted down to safety after the balloons took him too high.

"I rose to a certain altitude and the winds got pretty intense. I was somersaulting out the chair and it felt like minus 30. I watched below as the stampede and my dream drifted away."

The stunt reportedly used 120 over-sized party balloons and $9,500 (£6,000) worth of helium.

"It's the first time I've seen anything like it in my career," Inspector Grant told reporters. "I usually see it on those crazy shows on TV of what not to do."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-33414264

Edited July 7, 2015 by oxmox

[mistyronin 1181]

Rivals Pakistan, India to start process of joining China security bloc

Nuclear-armed rivals Pakistan and India will start the process of joining a security bloc

led by China and Russia at a summit in Russia later this week

I'm sorry for the expression, but that's a huge WTF! :eek:

That doesn't make any sense... I'm really missing something.

Pakistan has collaborated a lot with China, so that makes sense.

China and India are known enemies, they have been in a tense climate for a long time (including the Sino-Indian War of 1962).

Not to talk about the crazy Pakistan-India relations. It's almost like if North and South Korea would join the same defense organization...

Edited July 7, 2015 by MistyRonin

[batto 17]

:confused: :cool: :D :ok: :292: FPDR

But it is Russian. Or do you seriously believe that citizens of Crimea would voluntarily choose current UA government? Don't bother with international rules (blah blah no country recognized it blah blah) and try to use common sense.

[mistyronin 1181]

But it is Russian. Or do you seriously believe that citizens of Crimea would voluntarily choose current UA government? Don't bother with international rules (blah blah no country recognized it blah blah) and try to use common sense.

It's Russian de facto, because of the Russian military invasion.

But legally, it is not. It is clearly part of Ukraine. Hence we'll see until when is it gonna be invaded, specially with an economically weakened Russia.

Using common sense and checking how Russia has been oppressing different Crimeans groups (like the native Tatars), probably they would rather be inside Ukraine.

(Human Rights Watch) Crimea: Human Rights in Decline

(Forbes) Russia Violates Civil Rights Of Crimean Tatars In Occupied Crimea

(OHCHR, page 23) UN High Commissioner for Human Rights: Report on the human rights situation in Ukraine

Edited July 7, 2015 by MistyRonin

[John Kozak 14]

But it is Russian. Or do you seriously believe that citizens of Crimea would voluntarily choose current UA government? Don't bother with international rules (blah blah no country recognized it blah blah) and try to use common sense.

Chechnya would like to be a separate state, as couple of not-so-recent wars have shown. Yet somehow noone wants to respect that. Don't bother with Russian laws, blah blah blah.

Separatism is separatism. Don't try to call double standards "common sense".

Edited July 7, 2015 by DarkWanderer

[vilas 477]

in case of people who live in Crimea - Russia has bigger social care benefits , so for them giving birth in one or another country - makes 10 times difference in money, cause Russia has big child birth benefits, Ukraine (and Poland) has almost zero ,

for Tatars of course it is worse, for Russians there it is better also due to their different than our life philosophy of strenght and imperialism as main rule,

[spooky lynx 73]

Yeah Tatars are so opressed that even got their language as third official (among Russian and Ukrainian) in Crimea, first time since 1991:D Guys you really make my day.

BTW next week I'll go there for vacations.

Not to talk about the crazy Pakistan-India relations. It's almost like if North and South Korea would join the same defense organization...

Maybe they have seen some other enemy that is worse than their tensions.

Separatism is separatism. Don't try to call double standards "common sense".

*cough*Kosovo independence recognition made even without any local referendum*cough*

[oxmox 73]

Drastics changes happening in Spain against the basics of freedom and democracy, there is almost silence about it........

Spain Gag Law: Protesters Rally Against New Public Demonstration Laws

Spain's so-called "gag law," which limits the right to public protest through massive fines, took effect Wednesday amid widespread demonstrations. The Citizen Safety Law, passed through Parliament by Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy's conservative Popular Party (PP) on March 12, will allow law enforcement officers to deliver fines and sanctions for people breaking public demonstration laws.

The law will create fines of up to 30,000 euros for protests near Parliament and other government buildings classified by law enforcement as a "disturbance of public safety," and fines of up to 600,000 euros for unauthorized protests near infrastructure, including transportation hubs and nuclear plants. The law also bans citizens from "unauthorized use" of images of any form of law enforcement on duty, effectively limiting rights of the media.

With many comparisons to the limitations on civil liberties passed during the dictatorship of Francisco Franco throughout the twentieth century, activists began protesting late Tuesday night with members of Greenpeace draping a banner saying "Protesting is a Right" on a construction crane next to Spain's Parliament building, reports the Associated Press.

In April, the editorial board of the New York Times wrote that "the law's main purpose...is to help the ruling party maintain its hold on power by discouraging the anti-austerity protests that have snowballed into widespread support for the populist Podemos party." A panel of United Nation human rights experts and the Human Rights Watch advocacy group have both condemned the law, reports the Associated Press.

The legislation was created in response to largely peaceful protests that have occurred since the financial crisis in 2008 when the housing bubble burst in Spain, causing massive evictions throughout the country.

http://www.ibtimes.com/spain-gag-law-protesters-rally-against-new-public-demonstration-laws-1991816

Edited July 8, 2015 by oxmox

[mistyronin 1181]

Drastics changes happening in Spain against the basics of freedom and democracy, there is almost silence about it........

Well it depends where you look, I've seen a strong presence of news about it.

In any case, for what my Spanish friends told me people are not "excessively" worried because the Popular Party is not gonna win the next elections, hence this law is gonna last less than a year, same happens with the Education law of Wert (who is no longer a minister).

In April, the editorial board of the New York Times wrote that "the law's main purpose...is to help the ruling party maintain its hold on power by discouraging the anti-austerity protests that have snowballed into widespread support for the populist Podemos party." A panel of United Nation human rights experts and the Human Rights Watch advocacy group have both condemned the law, reports the Associated Press.

It's way more than that. They want to discourage any kind of opposition. Also keep any social, pro-independence, anti-gov movement quiet.

There's been a huge regression in democracy and human rights in Spain since PM Mariano Rajoy is in power.

[vilas 477]

is it touching Basks ? cause indeed Basks situation in Europe is hyprocisy of Europe - we say so much about freedom in Europe, but Basks cannot have their own state

Also keep any social,

but can they afford it from budget ? i do not know Spanish budget situation but many of such protests should consider economical situation, otherwise it would end like Greece

[mistyronin 1181]

is it touching Basks ? cause indeed Basks situation in Europe is hyprocisy of Europe - we say so much about freedom in Europe, but Basks cannot have their own state

Mainly about Catalans lately. The Basque Independence wouldn't suppose a huge impact. The Catalan Independence would be catastrophic, as are more than 18% of the Spanish GDP. And they use Catalan money to fund a lot of regions in Spain.

but can they afford it from budget ? i do not know Spanish budget situation but many of such protests should consider economical situation, otherwise it would end like Greece

The politic and economic situation of Spain is really really different from the Greek one. So you can't even compare.

[vilas 477]

Greece only industry seems to be tourism - so without EU money they should survive because tourism will not change (those who earn on tourism, will earn on tourists - for them nothing will be worse, but maybe better due to lack of debt on their neck), what is Spanish economy basis ?

[mistyronin 1181]

Greece only industry seems to be tourism - so without EU money they should survive because tourism will not change (those who earn on tourism, will earn on tourists - for them nothing will be worse, but maybe better due to lack of debt on their neck), what is Spanish economy basis ?

You are going for a really simple analysis.

First the main problem in Greece is corruption, no one pays the taxes. In Spain most of people does.

On it's economy just check the exports to have a glimpse of how it's industries are (Cars, Food, Iron-Steel, Clothes). Mainly the industry centers are in Catalonia and Basque Country (Catalonia is for instance one of the four more industrialized areas, 4 motors, of the EU).

The second most important cloth company in the World is Spanish, Inditex (his owner, is the third most rich man in the World, according to the Forbes list).

http://www.macromatters.es/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Spanish-Exports-in-2011-Luis-Riestra-Delgado-www-macromatters-es.jpg (106 kB)

[vilas 477]

oops , industry focused in ethnically different regions of Spain - reminds eastern Ukraine situation ,

[mistyronin 1181]

oops , industry focused in ethnically different regions of Spain - reminds eastern Ukraine situation ,

Well you just have to check what's around Madrid, just fields.

Spain has a deep problem with the territorial organization:

- The former Castile and Andalucia/Granada territories more used to live from the colonies are deeply poor and the most corrupted.

- The former Aragon composite Crown territories, specially Catalonia are strong on all kinds of industry and trading, and also Tourism (Balearic Islands and Valencia).

- The former Navarra Crown territories are good on heavy industry and metals.

But as the ruling ethnic group has been the Castilian for a long time, they always favor Madrid and a radial structure, which is useless as there's nothing economically important in the center.

To understand Spain nowadays, you have to check the Seal of Spain and a map of the Medieval times:

(the four red lines in the gold background is Aragorn, the Castle and the Lion are the two Castiles, the chain is Navarre and the flower on the bottom is Granada)

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111210181421/althistory/images/c/cc/CV_Coat_of_Arms_of_Spain.png (185 kB)

Edited July 8, 2015 by MistyRonin

[vilas 477]

last colonies in world fallen in 60s/70s XXc afair, for some previously rich countries it led to their current problems, cause all wealth was build on abusing other people ,

people who lived from colonies now have to face bill for their grandfathers wealth built on others slave work , maybe this leads to counter-opposition actions to stop receiving bill for the past

[mistyronin 1181]

last colonies in world fallen in 60s/70s XXc afair, for some previously rich countries it led to their current problems, cause all wealth was build on abusing other people ,

people who lived from colonies now have to face bill for their grandfathers wealth built on others slave work , maybe this leads to counter-opposition actions to stop receiving bill for the past

Well it depends what do you understand as colonies. In some instances, the Basque Country and Catalonia could still be considered modern colonies of Spain.

[vilas 477]

indeed , so shame that in XXI c colonies still exist and it happens within EU mouthfull of freedoms

[mistyronin 1181]

indeed , so shame that in XXI c colonies still exist and it happens within EU mouthfull of freedoms

The thing is that nowadays EU is a confederation of states. When probably would make more sense to be a confederation of nations.

With the end of the USSR and Yugoslavia, the situation has improved in Europe, but there's still work to do.

[John Kozak 14]

*cough*Kosovo independence recognition made even without any local referendum*cough*

Lying yet again - there was a referendum

But was there one or not, there's no "prior art" in separatism. And a referendum alone does not mean much - if it is not backed by proper legal background.

By your logic, again, Chechnya has right to declare independence now - if there is a referendum held. Also in same conditions are Ural territories which are rented by China - where there are tens of thousands Chinese workers. So would you say they can make a referendum and declare themselves independent too?

Edited July 8, 2015 by DarkWanderer

[spooky lynx 73]

Lying yet again - there was a referendum

Oh really? So who lies?

But was there one or not, there's no "prior art" in separatism. And a referendum alone does not mean much - if it is not backed by proper legal background.

By your logic, again, Chechnya has right to declare independence now - if there is a referendum held. Also in same conditions are Ural territories which are rented by China - where there are tens of thousands Chinese workers. So would you say they can make a referendum and declare themselves independent too?

Indeed, it has. And I'd remind you that there was referendum. And Chinese workers have right too. Other thing is why should they do this.

The whole separatism issue is fully connected to political situation. Kosovo (suits US interests) - okay. Chechnya (suits US interests) - okay. Northern Cyprus (done by NATO member Turkey) - nobody cares. Abhasia, Transnistria, Karabakh (either pro-Russian or want to join pro-Russian country) - wrong. When it is suitable - nations have the right for independence. When not - countries' borders must be respected blah blah blah. Just look at Kurds, the most bright example. Those of them who live in Iraq - got help from Europe and US during Saddam's reign. Those who live in Turkey - nobody cares about opression of them by Turkish state. One nation. Iraqi case - condemnation of struggle with separatism. Turkish case - either indifference or help with struggling separatism.

[John Kozak 14]

Oh really? So who lies?

You.

Indeed, it has. And I'd remind you that there was referendum. And Chinese workers have right too. Other thing is why should they do this.

The whole separatism issue is fully connected to political situation. Kosovo (suits US interests) - okay. Chechnya (suits US interests) - okay. Northern Cyprus (done by NATO member Turkey) - nobody cares. Abhasia, Transnistria, Karabakh (either pro-Russian or want to join pro-Russian country) - wrong. When it is suitable - nations have the right for independence. When not - countries' borders must be respected blah blah blah. Just look at Kurds, the most bright example. Those of them who live in Iraq - got help from Europe and US during Saddam's reign. Those who live in Turkey - nobody cares about opression of them by Turkish state. One nation. Iraqi case - condemnation of struggle with separatism. Turkish case - either indifference or help with struggling separatism.

Now - proofs for every statement, please.

Edited July 8, 2015 by DarkWanderer