[SP/CO8] A 3 - Antistasi Altis.

[neofit 65]

heh, is not a hard task, but dealing with that will mean an intensive check on each AI in the same way the player does (are you in a vehicle?, what type?, is enemy close?, do you wear Nightvision? etc..) plus handling all the gear limitation with the AI (no googles, no handgun etc..) would be a pain in the ass for the player.

No no, I didn't mean anything complicated to design and program, nor anything tedious for the player like playing dress up with dolls. You just care about the player fulfilling all the criteria of being undercover, and consider that if the player is, then we presume that the AI teammates are too. Some people might call it too easy, but I am ready to abstract that layer of micromanagement, and consider that the AIs are smart enough to see what I am doing and do the same, even if in reality they are still dressed in battle gear and armed. If the game had a command like "All, put your gear in the trunk" then I'll be all for it, but without, I'd still rather have an undercover option without where we act like they did even if they didn't.

[barbolani 198]

Scripting like "if the player is in undercover then all his AI team is too" is very easy, but has a problem: What if you want, for example, two of them NOT to be in undercover, let's say, in covering you from a hill, or, another: the player has to be careful no to get too close to the enemy to be "detected" if not in a civ vehicle, but, what about AI? It is impossible to make them avoid getting too close to them (well, it's not imposible, but scripting that is a pain in the ass)

[neofit 65]

Scripting like "if the player is in undercover then all his AI team is too" is very easy, but has a problem: What if you want, for example, two of them NOT to be in undercover, let's say, in covering you from a hill, or, another: the player has to be careful no to get too close to the enemy to be "detected" if not in a civ vehicle, but, what about AI? It is impossible to make them avoid getting too close to them (well, it's not imposible, but scripting that is a pain in the ass)

Hehe I didn't think of these issues. But I'm not sure that the AIs getting too close is a big problem. They are usually pretty close to me. And what problem can there be if *I* am the one who is checked for being undercover? No matter how close to the enemy they are, they will still be undercover if I am, no? If the player is aware that me being undercover means that they are too, even the "I want them to provide cover from the hill" problem solves itself, because it is documented that it doesn't work that way. If I had to vote, I'd prefer in SP a "everyone is undercover every time I am" feature instead of "only I can be undercover and never the AI".

[barbolani 198]

I'll give it a thought. If being undercover is only player dependant (ony the player has to match the undercover conditions), there is no high CPU load and is as simple as removing their weapons temporally and wait for the player for not to be undercover to rearm them.

Despite it is an esthetical thing, being undercover and see your squad with their weapons in hand is ugly....

EDIT: DONE. On next reléase :)

Edited June 2, 2015 by barbolani

[swoop 15]

This new release is a step backwards.

The arsenal ruins it, it steals my backpack every time I go near it and being able to just fill up on whatever ammo is needed without regard removes the entire problem of ammo management. We liked managing ammo.

[neofit 65]

This new release is a step backwards.

Oh, I didn't realize there was a new release. Since the dropbox version does not have a version number in the file name, I was looking for a change in the Edit timestamp of the first post, or a change in the patch notes (which btw would be more useful if the latest information came at the top), but saw nothing new that way.

I do not use the Steam version on principle, the auto-updates disable all previous saves and always come as a surprise.

---------- Post added at 08:25 ---------- Previous post was at 08:04 ----------

The Dropbox version is new, good job. I didn't find any patch notes, so sorry if I am missing some obvious things.

I started a new game. The Undercover thing seems to work quite well. I hide my weapons and drop the chestpiece and my team mates disarm, we get the "UC: ON" status. I get inside the civilian truck while armed and get the "UC: ON" flag, and see my teammates disarm again, they they get into the truck, and I keep the "UC: ON" flag all the time. Good job here. I didn't check how it works outside the camp though, because:

When I reload I still lose the top information line. I can re-enable it at the camp by using the map, but could not find a way to do that outside the camp. The "Y" key is working after loading, so maybe there is a way to add the "reset ui" option into that window? I am not leaving camp without the ability to reload properly, it's dangerous out there, we can get hurt or something.

[swoop 15]

UC didn't work for us at all. New mission, restart from scratch, 1st mission was a city supplies and 3 of us (humans, no AI) tried the truck and UC mode was always off. Finally kicked in when someone found an SUV in town after delivering the supplies.

[barbolani 198]

Hi!

Swoop: About the arsenal, I HAD to do it. The main reason is in MP the huge amount of stored items were causing heavy problems to people in order to just pick a magazine from a corpse.

About the backpack thing. You are using it badly, it does not autoremove something you have if you don't close the menu after changing equipment.

About the mags, yes, regetably is the price we have to pay: unlimited magazines for unlocked weapons. I cannot tweak the BIS arsenal on that. Good news is: it's only the "main" magazines. So you will have to scavenge for things like grenades, traces etc..

neofit: As the game has an in built persistent save option, which typically players use whenever they come back to HQ, you may update the game with no afraid of loosing anything. When you restart the mission, it will ask you to load the previous session. Patch notes are in Steam. About the reinit UI, main problem to do it in the Y menu is... I run out of buttons :) I have to reorganise that in the near future.

[neofit 65]

As the game has an in built persistent save option, which typically players use whenever they come back to HQ, you may update the game with no afraid of loosing anything. When you restart the mission, it will ask you to load the previous session.

I know there is a persistent save option, WLA has it and IIRC some other missions. But I never remember to make one when I leave for the night, so this makes the Steam versions too dangerous for me :).

As for the Y key, I think I'll wait for a fix then. I am playing SP, and every time an AI shoots me from behind a tree or bushes, I don't want to be teleported back to the camp and have every enemy respawn at the target location, I'd be playing Borderlands if I enjoyed that :). I need a proper reload or else I go crazy.

[barbolani 198]

I think the Y key reinit upon load on SP will be solved in the next patch

[swoop 15]

New bug report: Online MP on a dedicated server. 4 players online, we completed a 'steal the tank' mission from Zaros base. The tank wasn't a tank, instead it was a mobile artillery piece, however, after dropping the vehicle off at HQ we immediately went to fight off an attack elsewhere, when we returned the tank/mobile artillery was gone.

In a later session, same mission, same server, I had another steal the tank mission from Zaros base, stole the MBT successfully and while I was driving it back to HQ it despawned.....with me aboard....and dumped me onto the road.

[barbolani 198]

New bug report: Online MP on a dedicated server. 4 players online, we completed a 'steal the tank' mission from Zaros base. The tank wasn't a tank, instead it was a mobile artillery piece, however, after dropping the vehicle off at HQ we immediately went to fight off an attack elsewhere, when we returned the tank/mobile artillery was gone.

In a later session, same mission, same server, I had another steal the tank mission from Zaros base, stole the MBT successfully and while I was driving it back to HQ it despawned.....with me aboard....and dumped me onto the road.

Thanks, will check that. Yesterday I stole a CSAT artillery and had no problem...

[swoop 15]

Another request: Is it possible to put a delay on spawning any new missions for 5 minutes after a persistent save reload?

Only we're finding on a dedicated server you have to use the persistent save, which means some players lose weapons and equipment and have to store their kit in the ammo crate before the save so that it's there on reload. This has the knock on effect of 3 or 4 guys all messing around getting kitted up when we launch a session off.....and since those guys will invariably turn out to be useless idiots who take 10 minutes to get themselves sorted out......it would be very handy if the enemy wouldn't launch attacks, punishment missions, anything else really nasty that we have to react to for a few minutes. It does almost seem like the second we launch into the game the enemy decides that they 'MUST launch ze attack IMMEDIATELY vhile zey are re-armink!'

Sorry, dunno why I went all German there.

[swoop 15]

Another bug: At the HQ flag, all static weapons (mortars, MG, etc) have a cost of "null" and are effectively free.

[ov3rj0rd 1]

Great mission, been playing it for a couple days now with some friends and we are having a great time. I have a question however, where does the mission save the persistence? I would like to be able to make a backup of that file. Is it saved within the .pbo or externally somewhere?

[swoop 15]

bug report: Player money displays "Scalar NaN". Unable to recreate this every time, it seems to happen randomly.

[sandman1980 18]

HI, today i and my clanmates try this fantastic mission, but we have a problem. I was the Commander and when i call for a CAS support i can't use the High Commander to do orders to the NATO. I enter to the map, press ctrl+space to enter high commander but nothing happens.

[swoop 15]

I may be wrong here, barbolani will confirm, but the high command option is only applicable to squads you hire through the recruitment menu, not for NATO assets. You're a resistance leader, you have absolutely no authority over NATO forces.

[sandman1980 18]

I understand but how work the CAS? when i have the Nato resources to ask for CAS support a task was created and it said something like this: You have command control until 9:46. First I thought I had to wait until that time for the CAS attack (more than 20 minutes) but the time came and nothing happened. Then I reread the task (pay for the Nato support again) and figure out that i need to give a command for the attack.

Sorry my bad english i am from Argentina.

[Flax 397]

Really nice mission, some great scripting. It's a shame your personal gear doesn't get saved with the persistent save or on disconnect. Also liking the AI garrison features that is really useful.

[barbolani 198]

Hi!

I detected a bug on Arty / CAS Synch in MP. Updating game in minutes.

@Flax: Thanks! The personal gear IS saved. The weapons, items and ammo is in the Ammobox when you load, other stuff such as glasses, helmet etc.. is in your inventory.

[Flax 397]

Ah thanks for that barbolani, guess i wan't paying enough attention the gear in the box!

[ghosteez 3]

Hi there, do the mobile Arty's reload? I used all 8 shots and never seemed to get an option to use them again.

Also two bugs I believe. I cannot destroy the downed chopper, multiple satches, explosive charges, rockets, and nothing. And two, when forming a group with friends it does not show me in the group, I can recruit AI's and make a group but suddenly using U to group with friends does not work. It has worked 99% of the time so far, this is a first time experience.

Edited July 10, 2015 by Ghosteez

[swoop 15]

The changes I've made to the mission on our dedi box by popular demand from the group:

Random boats (not just dingies with outboards) dotted around every harbour, pier and jetty on the map. Some have scuba gear in. AAF held harbours have empty gunboats and SDVs, all other harbours have mix of motorboats and dingies with outboards. Also added an AAF maritime patrol around the main bay in the middle of the map, just to make it more interesting.

Crashed helicopters in random locations all over the map. All crashed helicopters are completely out of fuel and ammo and will require repair just to get them off the ground, the flight back to HQ will be very dangerous due to the damage levels an engineer is unable to repair. It's not easy getting a heli back to base and in service, you'd need 1 or even 2 fuel trucks (fuel leaks wont be repaired until you get close enough to the HQ repair crate), an ammo truck and an engineer to get the damn thing off the ground in the first place. There may also be a requirement to demolish trees and other obstacles, due to the random nature of placement.

# of civs spawning reduced to 1/10th current levels. Now, even on a cheap dedi server, the mission no longer lags like a b*tch when going anywhere near a town.

AAF spawning costs increased by 3:1. Now it's much more viable to attempt to run the AAF out of armoured vehicles for a while. In the original unedited mission we played for 2 weeks straight and the AAF had 21(!) tanks, according to an Intel report. This no longer happens.

From playtesting of the above, I can highly recommend allowing players to reduce civ spawning much further than the current 10% option; also possibly including a 'difficulty' option to decrease / increase AAF costs.

I won't argue the point about allowing players to fly helicopters, I know you're dead against it but we'll be leaving the option on in our version as we find it a lot of fun going to all the effort required in order to recover a helicopter we've found, especially when you get one where the tail rotor is completely shot..... Re the boats: We've had this discussion before and the response was that we can buy boats from any captured port.......only dingies though, and only when there's no enemies anywhere close. The random boats dotted around the map makes it much fairer as the FIA can now use motorboats, gunboats and SDVs. We like SDVs....

[swoop 15]

Also, from one of our players: It would be very handy if, in the early stages of the mission, missions generated would contain less 'capture this outpost' missions and more smaller missions that players can complete without a lot of resources.....such as 'plant an IED here' or 'blow up this (unescorted) truck as it goes from X to Y'. Guerilla missions as opposed to organised force missions.