Armor Discussion

[spanishsurfer 58]

There is still much to be desired when it comes to Armor combat and there isn't a discussion going on about it. Please use this thread to post your suggestions on what you think Armor needs work on.

For me, I'll start with a simple suggestion: we need the ground radar to work again. I don't want Arma 2 radar to return to ground vehicles but it seems as if rather then find a good medium, BIS just turned it off in Arma 3. I'm sure someone could chime in how it should work, because right now it feels like WWII regarding tank combat in Arma 3, you have to spot them first visually before they spot you in order to win. That's not very 2035.

[maddogx 13]

Collections of suggestions aren't really helpful in the dev branch forum, as they really have nothing to do with dev branch itself. Feature requests and suggestions are generally best posted on the feedback tracker (where tickets can be upvoted to show community priorities).

Once changes are made and deployed on the dev branch and thus become relevant to it, feel free to discuss them there.

Thread moved to general.

Edited August 29, 2014 by MadDogX

[spanishsurfer 58]

Collections of suggestions aren't really helpful in the dev branch forum, as they really have nothing to do with dev branch itself. Feature requests and suggestions are generally best posted on the feedback tracker (where tickets can be upvoted to show community priorities).

Once changes are made and deployed on the dev branch and thus become relevant to it, feel free to discuss them there.

Thread moved to general.

I'd have to disagree but you're the admin! ;-P

[the_demongod 31]

Collections of suggestions aren't really helpful in the dev branch forum, as they really have nothing to do with dev branch itself. Feature requests and suggestions are generally best posted on the feedback tracker (where tickets can be upvoted to show community priorities).

Once changes are made and deployed on the dev branch and thus become relevant to it, feel free to discuss them there.

Thread moved to general.

I agree generally, but the feedback tracker is not a good place to put feature requests; first of all they get ignored most of the time (I assume BI has much better things to be doing), and I feel like a thread would allow for discussions, and allow for the community to collaboratively polish their feedback and expectations before putting up a ticket. Then the ticket can be updated regularly when new suggestions and changes are made via the forums.

On radar,

I'm no radar expert, but I don't think ground radar is an existing technology. All radar sees is a relief map of their FOV, meaning that objects on the ground look like features of the terrain. This is most likely why you never see Radar Guided AT Missiles, it just isn't a useful method of tracking ground units. lasers and TV guidance are much more helpful because (lasers) can be realigned to correct flight mid-flight, and (TV) also can rely on color differences to track a specific target.

[instagoat 133]

Internal damage handling, damage handling of explosives as well as advanced warheads is woefully inadequate. Another thing that's very wonky is the tank track physics, and the sounds.

The AI is also not acting very convincingly with the tanks. Sometimes they see through walls, and other times they fail to identify a clearly visible enemy in a field 800 meters away even if they are shooting rockets at them.

Advanced sim is all nice and dandy, but first the basics of armor penetration, and post penetration terminal ballistics handling (crew and tank module damage and injury) would be more sensibly implemented.

[maddogx 13]

I feel like a thread would allow for discussions, and allow for the community to collaboratively polish their feedback and expectations before putting up a ticket. Then the ticket can be updated regularly when new suggestions and changes are made via the forums.

Absolutely right, that's what threads like this should be used for. :)

I personally would also like to see a bunch of improvements to armor, seeing as it is very close to the game's main focus (infantry combat). Btw. there is one ticket about improving the radar here that might be worth upvoting.

[mistyronin 1181]

I personally would also like to see a bunch of improvements to armor, seeing as it is very close to the game's main focus (infantry combat).

Well, to improve the infantry game. One thing would be to use tanks as support "deliverers". I mean you can know call for helo/plane CAS or artillery, but in real life infantry also call armor vehicles as support ( mainly tanks ).

Also a call for armor transport would be good ( in the same way as the helo transport ).

In fact it already kind of works using the helo and CAS request on armor vehicles, but it would be nice to have it properly integrated.

Edited August 29, 2014 by MistyRonin

[the_demongod 31]

Here is a (very long) read on radars. http://www.radartutorial.eu/index.en.html

I have personally not gotten around to reading it, but I hope anybody interested will find it useful/helpful.

My only issue with threads like these is that people pour lots of time and energy into their discussions, but unless it is a very hot topic (such as the Helicopter FM Feedback thread when RotorLib had just come out) it seems like all of the ideas are ignored and go to waste. I personally would rather that BI devs would reply "we're not going to do that" than just leaving us in the dark. I once got a reply from a dev (after complaining about them never showing their faces) who said :couch:

and although a useless comment, it really was great knowing that the devs are actually reading this stuff. Anyways

My biggest gripe with the armor system currently (this applies to almost every vehicle, actually) is that they seem too light.

We need both the weight and engine power to be boosted, so that it feels like a big strong engine pulling a big heavy vehicle instead of feeling light and insignificant.

The fact that the tanks easily get stuck on road guardrails doesn't help either :P

[Rydygier 1309]

After each battle involving armored units, especially tanks grouped in platoons, I'm quite confident, at least one of most important improvements here at this moment should be teaching AI, how to tactically move the vehicle/fight in combat situations (like keep front toward threat rule) using terrain/objects to get advantage (in relation with skill value), how to move as a group smoothly, avoiding collisions and most important, how not squash to death own infantry (currently roads poses deadly threat to any infantry wanting to move along if there is any allied vehicle near) and move smoothly, safely and reliably in convoys/columns when using roads (yes, I see some improvement comparing to A2). So I could at least have a feeling seeing armored forces in action, so these are actually controlled by trained soldiers, not a band of lunatics who escaped from a mental institution and somehow hijacked military equipment.

Second would be making anyhow armored vehicles not stuck on obstacles. Again, every battle involving armored vehicles on the move I could quite safely bet my non-existing money, so sooner or later at least part of them, if not all, will end stuck on some rock, building corner or bridge or mindlessly & endlessly pushing some tree.

Only after that, after fixing, what is malfunctioning so badly, thinking about anything else/new has any sense to me. So, what else? Improving damage model to reflect as accuratelly as possible reality (like here).

Edited August 30, 2014 by Rydygier

[.kju 3244]

The overarching problem is that BI has never seen armor/vehicles much of a priority.

There have been small improvements here and there, but for a real push something

like TOKH or the expansion with armor as main focus would need to happen.

Then there is also the AI part - BI always argues that stuff needs to work for AI as well.

To me this is a false premise as its not true for many aspects of the game anyway.

There could so much improvement for PvP and even PvE or just to enable more opportunities for modders.

Did an extensive analysis for A3 during its development but not much has materialized since:

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/A3_Locking_Review