Laser guided missile going wrong

[WolfeUK 1]

i cant seem to get the laser guided missile to work from the artillery, i give the AI the coordinates to fire, the whole time i have my laser designator on the target, i hear the 'splash', but when i come out of zoom mode i see the missile struck else where,

i really dont understand why its going wrong, it really couldn't be any simpler, could it ?

[Maxzy 12]

Are you correcting the targeting point if it goes off the desired taget after you've already called fire? If you do - don't =). After you called fire don't touch the mouse - and it's all gonna be ok.

[WolfeUK 1]

so after ive called the arty i can turn off the laser and move on ?

[Maxzy 12]

No, you'll have to spend all the time before impact not touching any controls.

[WolfeUK 1]

but im far away so my breathing moves the laser on/off target, does that matter ?

ive watched some videos on laser targeting, think i got it wrong what i though the laser did, i though it was for the missile to home in on the laser beam, but from what ive watched its to give the arty operator a 'fake' target ?, but if so on later why would you need to give him coordinates ?

a little confused on what the laser actually does, apart from fire a laser beam of course lol

[Maxzy 12]

but im far away so my breathing moves the laser on/off target, does that matter ?

That's what I was talking about in the first reply - even if laser is moving on/off target after you called a strike, don't touch your controls and don't try to correct a laser even if its off the taget. In that case impact is going to happen right on the spot at which your laser was pointing at the moment you gave a command to fire.

I know it's a bit confusing and the sway of binoculars/laser designator/range finder imho is waaaay too overdone, even when you're crouched, but it is how it is. Adapt, he-he =)).

Edited April 17, 2014 by MAXZY

[WolfeUK 1]

ok, will try it like you said, thanks :D

[Jona33 51]

Actually you do want to correct where the laser is. You're previous understanding appears to be right, the artillery round should impact precisely where the laser is. There are some things to consider. If you're lasing the side of a tank and the artillery shell is approaching from the other direction then there will be a "podium effect". The shell cannot see the laser because the tank itself is in the way. Therefore try to lase the top of the tank. (Ideally from an elevated position.)

There is also the factor of energy to consider which is most likely to appear at long range. I'm not sure whether or not this applies in ARMA but I believe it does. When the shell spots the laser it tries to fly straight for it, however if you consider that artillery shells fire in an arc then if it detects it too early it will not follow the arc and will land short. The way around this is to check the ETA of the shells when you call them, then around 10-15 seconds before they hit, lase the target. They should then hit dead on. If you leave the laser too late, particularly if the targets moved then the shell won't have time to adjust, don't leave it until "splash" is called if you've moved the laser any distance. At some ranges this will not happen and you can happily lase the target all they way. I'm testing this now from short/medium/long ranges.

EDIT: Ok, the energy explanation only seems to be a factor from extremely long ranges.

Edited April 17, 2014 by Jona33

[WolfeUK 1]

i though lasers went on for ever, ie you can fire a laser to the moon, im no scientist so dont know that for certain, just what ive always being led to believe

im gonna do some serious testing, what was said before isnt entirely correct as i gave up lasing a tank earlier as the arty was on the other side of the map so stood up, with my laser left on and pointing to the floor only to find the shell hit me...lol

i used the UAV to laser a tank and called an LGB in from a F/A 18 and it hit on target, when my targets missed im fairly sure i was between the target and the arty so it should have see the 'laser point'

i though the main point of lasing was so you could hit moving targets ?, give the arty the area you want the shell to hit then use the laser to make it precise, or thats what i though it should do ?

on your ballistic arc you mentioned the artillery fires nearly straight upward so would imagine it has alot of area it could changed course during flight ?

Edited April 17, 2014 by WolfeUK

[pooroldspike 129]

I ran laser-guided shells tests, some land on target and some don't,

Like Jona33 said, it might help to try to put the laser spot on the top of a tank so that the incoming shell can easily see the spot.

Same when targetting buildings, putting the spot on the roof might help the shell to see it better.

I'm going to run more tests later for my Weapons Tests thread here, so keep an eye on it..:)-

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?175240-Weapon-tests

[WolfeUK 1]

i did some tests myself just, i used the UAV to lock the laser on the enemy tank from 400 meters up, so was definitely on top of the tank and in a fixed position, i was using the Scorcher at short range and the first laser guided shell missed by a long way, but the 2nd one i fired hit smack on top yet i adjusted nothing ?

theres definitely something wrong with the guidance system on these shells, they shouldn't be random at all but 100% on all guided shells ?

btw PoorOldSpike i will check your thread out

[pooroldspike 129]

If any noobs are reading this, the Nato Scorcher 155mm artillery vehicle has 'Laser guided' shells and another kind simply called 'Guided' shells, they're completely different so don't get them mixed up.

After the 'Guided' ones are fired they pop little guidance fins and establish an uplink to a GPS satellite which guides them onto the co-ordinates you gave the Scorcher, they're supposed to be very accurate but mine usually miss by miles, thats another thing I've got to test.

As for laser-guided weapons, if any noobs are reading this let me clarify there are 3 kinds, namely laser-guided shells, laser-guided missiles and laser-guided bombs.

[WolfeUK 1]

IAs for laser-guided weapons, if any noobs are reading this let me clarify there are 3 kinds, namely laser-guided shells, laser-guided missiles and laser-guided bombs.

doesnt matter what they are, they all aim the same, even LGB's have fins so they can 'aim' for the target, either way they all should hit the target unless in bad weather

Edited April 18, 2014 by WolfeUK

[Jona33 51]

Ok I've done a bit more testing. When firing from short/medium/long range with the laser on all the time (from a darter UAV) I get near perfect hits (the long range was slightly less accurate.) When firing from short and medium ranges with the laser on to mark the target then off until splash is called I get perfect hits. When firing from long range with the above method I get a big miss.

Ok now more testing with the long range artillery piece. It appears that if you lase either when splash is called or when 3/4 of the time is elapsed you will get a miss. I'll test a bit more.

[WolfeUK 1]

i would imagine long range firing is way off because by the time the shell has seen the dot its already too far of course to be able to correct it, think the game trys to over compensate for it and why it falls so far off course, obviously its all speculation cause im no wiz with programming

ive noticed when using the mcc artillery its worse and they dont have a firing position, only thing ive found that works 100% of the time is calling in a air strike with the LGB using the mcc console, but feel like im cheating using that

[oukej 2911]

I have to confirm this - we are aware that the guided ordnance sometimes fails to properly fall on its target even though it objectively shouldn't have any difficulties :/ and we're looking into it. For more info on the progress you can watch http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=17780 (a little bit different description, but the ticket title is valid)

[WolfeUK 1]

thanks for replying oukej,

will keep a close eye on your posted link :D

[pooroldspike 129]

I've been running tests with Scorcher 155mm laser-guided shells and they seem very reliable, hitting their target (vehicles/ buildings etc) about 9 times out of 10.

I've got more tests to do, but I think it definitely helps if you begin illuminating (designating) the target just BEFORE you call in the shell and keep illuminating until impact.

I'm also going to try to find out if a "low battery" warning ever comes up.

[WolfeUK 1]

i did some test myself on this, i didnt laser the target till after i heard him say rounds away, then i waited another 10secs or so, then i lased the target (for about 10-15secs) and it hit, so dont think the rounds see the laser dot till there in the area, does make a difference if its raining though, thats when i find they miss, but after checking wiki out thats the norm, as the laser is infact a pulse so you can have multiple laser going at once on different targets, guess the rain interferes with the pulse

going to try distance of using the laser and see what happens with that, also going to try moving targets as i feel they should still hit

interesting you mention the low battery, ive never had that with the laser designator and always make a point of carrying spare batteries so that could save space and weight

---------- Post added at 17:53 ---------- Previous post was at 17:50 ----------

another point i feel needs clarify if if your using AI to man the artillery, who should be in there ? ie what class should be on the gun and does it make a difference to have a commander ?

[pooroldspike 129]

..another point i feel needs clarify if if your using AI to man the artillery, who should be in there ? ie what class should be on the gun and does it make a difference to have a commander ?

I don't know for sure,that's another thing I'm testing. At the moment I'm trying to work out the artillery chain of command thing and the 'In Formation' and 'None formation' thing.

For example I place my Scorchers about 3kms away, but when the test begins, they start moving up to the front line (even though i didn't order them to move) and I have to hit 'Stop' to stop them, or else set them up with zero fuel.

At the moment I always make sure my spotter (me) has a decent rank like Captain or Major etc, and that the Scorchers are manned by Sergeants or Corporals. I can't be sure, but they seem to follow orders better if I outrank them.

Another thing I need to test is why Scorchers sometimes refuse to fire and say to me on the radio "Cannot comply", or "Adjust coordinates".

Edited April 24, 2014 by PoorOldSpike

[kill mig 23]

I have to confirm this - we are aware that the guided ordnance sometimes fails to properly fall on its target even though it objectively shouldn't have any difficulties :/ and we're looking into it. For more info on the progress you can watch http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=17780 (a little bit different description, but the ticket title is valid)

Any news about it? Oh, yeah.. Karts DLC is more important for Arma..

[the_demongod 31]

Odd, I have been getting laser guided shells to work every time.

What I do:

I used an AR-2 UAV to do this.

1. Fly the UAV in place to laze.

2. Tell your friend in the artillery to fire a laser-guided shell.

3. When he fires, begin painting the target with the laser.

4. The target must be within less than 100m from the target. I was testing this and I think at that range it's hit or miss on whether or not it'll track.

5. Continue lasing until the round impacts.

It works every time for me, I'm not sure what the problem could be. I also tested turning the laser on a little later, I think waiting until 10-15 seconds before impact. It works just as well if I can remember, but you'll have to test yourself.

I can definitely back up OldSpike's claim about regular guided shells. They miss by massive amounts for some reason.

Another thing you have to take into consideration is where the shells are coming from. Whenever you are lasing, the ordinance/pilot you are lasing for must have line-of-sight to the target. If the shells are coming from the top but slightly north (it's still a slight angle), and you lase the South side of the vehicle, the shells will not see the laser. You typically need to aim the laser at the top of the target for high hit probability.

If it works, it works great though. You can accurately land a shell directly on the hood of an Ifrit if you aim there. Pretty amazing.