What AI mod are you using?

[neodammerung 8]

To those using a mix of different AI mods, would you mind sharing your pbo list ?

[foffy 58]

To those using a mix of different AI mods, would you mind sharing your pbo list ?

Yeah, I'd like this as well. Seeing as there are so many AI modifications, some of which have been discontinued and overlap, I really wouldn't know where to start to get the most realistic AI. I mainly use ACE (this offers AI changes, no?), ASR AI, and TPW CAS with embedded LOS. This works properly for the most part, but I still see some gamey issues with the AI, and very rarely do they ever take the issue to heal or aid their teammates in injury. I'm sure if I used GL4, Zeus, and SLX (are there any others I'm missing) they'll just overlap and cause the game to stumble along. I wouldn't know what to tweak to get the most realistic AI setup.

[domokun 515]

I couldn't agree more with you. From my experience, the ASR AI and TPW CAS offer a good compromise (I also use a few pbos from SLX), i.e. easy to setup, fairly insignificant impact on performance yet noticeable increase in AI response. I'm certain that more sophisticated combinations exist (e.g. GL4 and/or Zeus) but many of these add CPU overhead, increase the chance of interfering with mission design and some even require modules to be placed in the editor. I also agree that I'm still very disappointed in AI's capacity to you and other comrades. I've tried Dapman's AI mod but dropped it after discovering that was incompatible in MP.

[sixt 26]

im alittle interested to hear what pbo's from the slx mod people uses and in combi with wath mods? i im think using it some parts of it, but im unsure of with there will be good.

[foffy 58]

I've started to dabble a little bit more into other AI mods, and my experience is that they seem to offer a little but more realism going on, though I am honestly unsure which pieces of the pbos are really adding to the game.

My build consists of ACE, ASR Appendix (to globally force ACE's damage system), ASR AI, TPW CAS with embedded LOS, and every additional pbo posted in here with any additional ACE fixes (I took Zeus ACE, GL4, and COSLX from SU), minus the shell and sound fx from GL4. Originally when I did this, I noticed the AI was far more tactical in movement (this was the first time I actually saw AI enter buildings to search them, something claimed by ASR AI) but I also noticed something a little more interesting. As I'm mainly using these AI mods to make the single-player side more realistic, I noticed it made existing content (currently playing CWR2) both more likely that my team survives and takes out the enemy but also absolutely difficult. Something not mentioned in that video link is that GL4 defaults to adding more units to battle, which is crazy. Missions where you are to take a town with about 15 people in it became missions where I'm fighting 35+ guys. I would suggest if you just want more realistic AI to disable any features that spawn in more content that isn't intentionally added into the mission.

I would implore those who consider that pbo mix to look and tinker more with GL4 than what is suggested in the video. But beyond that instance of reinforcement, I honestly have no idea which of those files is really making the AI behave with a slower, more mindful pace. I do love it, though. My issue with my regular mix is that the AI often would just keep moving forward, very rarely holding up if there was a lot of shooting. They'd also spread out and do their own thing, but that mix tries to make sure that every acting infantryman runs with a buddy and really milks the fights at longer ranges. Pretty cool stuff.

[domokun 515]

I'm also familiar with Chris' magic mix but I'm also wary about combining pbos from independently-developed mods. Running pbos with similar-named seems to increase the chance of creating unnecessary duplication or, worse still, interference, e.g. slx_findcover vs zeu_findcover and slx_netcode vs zeu_netcode

I am also very curious to verify the MP compatibility because although I enjoy SP, I prefer MP, more particularly COOP.

So ideally I'm looking to run the same pbos in MP that I do in SP.

[chrisb 196]

ASR_AI doesn’t work with that mix (properly anyway). GL4 was the building king, no other mod would ‘independently’ bring ai into buildings the way GL4 did, well available mods anyway. KAI and its extensions will do much better than GL4 for building use, well on everything really, but it’s a completely different level of mod making, for a specific type of game-play, and unfortunately its limited release at the moment.

Not sure why you say GL4 defaults more units in, they will call re-enforcements but this can be configed to a specific amount, also sync for them to call only certain groups etc (read gl4 readme very carefully, well worth it & experiment), plus of course you can remove groups from the GL4 mechanic via custom module. But it could be because your playing missions made, that don’t use the GL4 format, it can break existing or other user made missions.

The only thing you really need to do when using that mix, is make your own missions and allow for zeus to take the ai in a certain area, so change the part in the config shown in the video. Personal preference means you can alter lots of other things, but they are more cosmetic rather than behavioural, do as said and the behaviour is as shown (or should be depending on cpu power).

Don’t use the two find cover pbo’s together, only use zeus find cover. I have a video, I think, unless it went when I cleaned my channel up, showing the results of asr-ai used with the mix, asr breaks going for cover completely, when cover is a fair way off.

If you want really good going for cover with the mix, use it ‘as is’, these are the results.

It is experimenting that gets the best results, which I tell everyone who asks about the mix, the results I got, you may not get, and vice versa. So experiment lots, its as enjoyable as playing a mission, I always tended to make mini scenarios to check mixes, take minutes to make them and they can give hours of enjoyment. There is a video on my channel somewhere, showing the taking of a compound using the mix (only short), I put it up here on the forum somewhere, I said it took only 5mins to make, someone asked me if I would put a vid showing the makeup (sure they didn't believe only 5mins), so I did and it took a little over 3mins to makeup. The scenario is so simple yet it can literally be put anywhere and play differently, but still retaining the same behaviour, on any map/island. Simply copy and paste the scenario onto another island or a different location, alter the waypoints to suit and away you go. Its a simple scenario to show off the mix a little, takes minutes to make these things. I have a huge number of mission videos (group ones, hrs long), but they just take too long to upload, moreso now because I have moved house and the connection speed here is lower than I had, well half really.

I haven’t checked on the mix for some time now as I don’t use it anymore, use only KAI and only test for that now, so not sure if anything has changed, can’t see it though, as the vanilla game has not come further along, ai wise.

A side note though (as said above in this post): the mix is for your own made missions using a GL4 format, it may break other user made missions that are not made using the format. Also it may break BI campaign missions, not all the time, but it can and in some cases does.

So be aware, make your own missions (its the best way to play this series anyway), when made well, the mix will take over and give you a surprise every time. Add in uncertainty, air/armour support, populate an area around the mission focus with AI, but only the amount you yourself think would be right for that particular location, then spread outwards from that point, as far as you want. Think how you would protect certain assets like oil drilling, mining areas, ports etc. What patrols, foot, motorised, armour and air patrols. What static placements, onsite presence..

Think how you would react to attack if you were the enemy, first unit/group engaged, what would you call in first for backup and so on. Put that into your mission/scenario setup, use syncs for re-enforcements, place them as you would want in protecting an area.

The mix will take over, more than likely play it differently, but using your outline, therefore it adds uncertainty to a mission, you may have built it, but how it plays out will almost certainly surprise you, what they (AI) send in or use, how and where they will approach from. They communicate with one another so groups will split or work with other groups to attack your position etc, same for armour and air. Its just trying to make AI independent, use their own initiative, that’s what its all about really.

Altering the skill levels are easily done, but it will always be hard to complete successfully, because of the enemy intelligence, not because they are neccesarily great soldiers, i.e. first shot killers. Its mainly about how they use tactics, work together, communicate etc, they will act really well in every situation given.

I would still be playing using the same mix now, if it wasn't for KAI, I'm a realism nutcase:p, but I still like it to be a game, enjoyable and entertaining.

Using the 'smart ai' mix, means immersive game-play is almost guaranteed.;) Not my doing, but the makers of those great AI mods.

______________

In finishing; my outlook on AI changed with KAI, if its released fully (I hope it is), then many will see what can really be done with AI in this series. Smart mix is good imo, but pales into insignificance, when put alongside this mind blowing stuff, even naval now, just great, fingers crossed for a full release... Still have to make your own missions though, well militarise a whole map/island/terrain, then just war game at its best..:)

[foffy 58]

By defaulting units in with GL4, I meant that the settings default to adding more units (reinforcements). It is key to be mindful of this information, as without knowing it, you might have a mission with far more AI than what you put in. This does make single-player missions (I am currently playing through CWR2's remade campaigns with this mixture of mods) much more difficult. I had to turn it off, to keep the intent of planned AI correct. :P

If you don't mind me asking, what parts of ASR AI break this mix? Looking at the pbo files myself, I can't find anything in ASR named similarly to find cover (maybe AI Dispersion?) so I am left a little confused as to how it breaks other cover mechanics. From my experience, adding your mix to what I was already using made the AI more prone to take cover and exercise more caution. Then again, I may not be the best person to test this with; I am playing with already existing content. It also may not be working to the extent it can, but it seems to work. It's surely a step above vanilla AI, which looks like a joke compared to any AI modification.

Finally, I'd like to ask you about KAI, if it's no issue. I've seen some of the videos on it, but like...how does it work? I assume KAI is designed mostly for open world game types like multiplayer skirmishes, but do you need to activate a module or script set in the editor? Is it simply forced if you're running it as an expansion? It looks really, really interesting, and I recall hearing about it months ago (around the same time I asked you about animations used in the GL4 thread) but that's not really around publicly for me to toy with. :P

[sixt 26]

i agree that the KAI system look cool in the videos, but why talking about if it not gonna be released to public...

[chrisb 196]

If you don't mind me asking, what parts of ASR AI break this mix?

My guess, 'Formation'..

_____________________

Regards gl4 reinforcements, the mix is, as said, for your own made missions, using gl4 as a basis, following that, reinforcements will only be called from existing units i.e. those placed when the mission was built.

What it does to other user made missions or BI ones, is another thing altogether..

[SavageCDN 231]

oops wrong thread

edit: thread for A3

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?173430-MP-AI-Enhancement-Mods-(overview-list)

Edited February 20, 2014 by SavageCDN

[songer 10]

agasagf

[foffy 58]

My guess, 'Formation'..

_____________________

Regards gl4 reinforcements, the mix is, as said, for your own made missions, using gl4 as a basis, following that, reinforcements will only be called from existing units i.e. those placed when the mission was built.

What it does to other user made missions or BI ones, is another thing altogether..

Hmm. Of this mix, what does ASR really conflict with? Like, the specific mod or pbo. I am assuming Zeus, as many cite ASR doing the same things (some better, which is why I'm using it alongside this), and I'd like to be as conflict free as possible. :P

EDIT: Also, which of those pbos really emphasizes the AI in taking cover? I would go over the video I linked of yours again but you made it (and seemingly other videos of your mix...) private. I only ask as the more I play around with some of the single player stuff, I am left divided. On one end, the AI engaging in a much more realistic manner is amazing, battles lasting longer and with far more caution...on another, it is that realism, that variation from deviating from waypoints, that breaks a ton of stuff, like AI moving to places that the editor shows they shouldn't even be near. I think I might go back to my old combo of ACE/ASR/TPWCAS for existing context, while the mix seems more apt for created stuff. ASR allows a nice foundation of skill settings for what rank and class the AI is, and CAS allows solid suppression..and well, ACE is for the realism. It seems anything of the mix beyond that works wonders in large scale brawls, but in specific, scripted missions, it stumbles, and a lot of BI stuff is the latter, and that's what I mainly play. :P

Edited March 10, 2014 by Foffy

[SavageCDN 231]

Foffy I would stick with what you are using now.... ACE (which comes with DAC - check it out if you haven't already it blows all other AI spawning / group behaviour systems out of the water), ASR_AI, TPWCAS. GL4 is great as well but you need to be aware of it's limitations and issues arising from a script that has not been updated in > 2 years. Same goes with Zeus_AI - it is known to cause issues especially with the beta version of A2OA. Obviously if you test a bunch you can eliminate some of these problems.