AH-64D Apache Longbow for ArmA2 by Nodunit and Franze

[nodunit 397]

That certainly helps though it would most likely be TKOH that the full in depth start up would be worked on. From what I've heard Franze had to go through a lot of things to get this to function in Arma 2 and it still has its limitations, whereas take on helicopters has a full on fuel system including heat and oil pressure if I'm not mistaken.

[Guest]

Well, you can always try to work around adding choppers for TOH, the hind was good, but if a light simulator its just gonna incluide a MD-500, a bell that its not even the military UH-1, and an US army Merlin, then i would be angry at BIS for failing the delivery of..... at least interesting military chopper simulation.

And thanks for the tip at the MFD.

Just one thing: AFAIK or at least in DCS: A-10 the APU is started before the battery, is that the same with the AH-64?

[nodunit 397]

I wouldn't say BI failed, originally TOH was supposed to be more civilian focused than military, the hinds dlc from what I heard from not really the direction they wanted to go.

From what I've seen in videos and read in documents, helicopters always go battery switch first.

Apples to oranges, you need to consider the differences in the cockpit layout and how the two platforms handle fuel.

Edited November 1, 2013 by NodUnit

[gatordev 219]

Just one thing: AFAIK or at least in DCS: A-10 the APU is started before the battery, is that the same with the AH-64?

Something has to start the APU, that's the point (and mostly the only point) of the battery. So battery, then APU (which provides some power, but also air for the engines), then the main engines.

[BradMick 0]

-----

Edited April 15, 2014 by BradMick

[kimi_uy 135]

Hey guys, are the Master Warning/Caution lights supposed to work? Cause I've been shot down, shilkazed, tunguskaded, iglated and tree crashed and all the bad things that could happen but I've never seen those lights turn on or heard any of betty's bitchin'.

On another note, the parking brake handle next to the pilots right leg is kinda mirrored, in the correct order but the letters are upside down :s

[nodunit 397]

We hadn't gotten to the master caution and warnings yet, I was told there was a beedling sound from a video and I've been looking for it...as for the parking brake, I was wondering when somebody would notice that.

[kimi_uy 135]

We hadn't gotten to the master caution and warnings yet, I was told there was a beedling sound from a video and I've been looking for it...

I think I found your video, but he uses ACE... maybe that's why.

At 4:35 he gets shot down and the beeping starts:

[nodunit 397]

I think I found your video, but he uses ACE... maybe that's why.

At 4:35 he gets shot down and the beeping starts:

Not quite, this was from a real TADS recording.

[kimi_uy 135]

Then I'm sorry for misunderstanding your search quest, I thought u were talking about an ingame footage.

[BradMick 0]

-----

Edited April 15, 2014 by BradMick

[kimi_uy 135]

Hey, I've been reading some flight manuals from other sims (DCS mainly) and at some point I read about radar jammers causing interference in radar acquisition of targets and, during and after launch , which is kind of logical, but does this affect the apaches ability to track or engage with RF missiles?

In game, I recall hearing the gunner say "Unkown aircraft XX o'clock" and some aerial targets appearing in the TSD/ FCR pages and standard BIS Map.

This may be a general question rather than about game functionalities.

Edited November 13, 2013 by geraldbolso1899

[franze 196]

I can't speak for RF missiles or even real life applications, but in the game turning on the RF jammer will give false signatures on the air radar and TSD, which can affect target acquisition in FCR modes.

[ESheppard 10]

I want to ask a question to clarify something I'd been wondering about. An RF jammer emits a beam of interference to essentially white out a seeking radar, right?

Wouldn't that make the emitter of such a jammer a prime target for anti-RF missiles like the HARM or ALARM?

[kimi_uy 135]

I want to ask a question to clarify something I'd been wondering about. An RF jammer emits a beam of interference to essentially white out a seeking radar, right?

Wouldn't that make the emitter of such a jammer a prime target for anti-RF missiles like the HARM or ALARM?

Mmm I don't think so, mainly cause HARMs and ALARMs are air to surface missiles, and IF they could lock on the apache, upon detection of a missile launch u just turn off the radar and jammers and the missile will fly by like a rocket. However, this missiles have some sort of memory, so if the source of radiation shuts down, the missile will "remember" the last known position but greatly reducing accuracy and cannot follow a moving target. AFAIK, this should only pose a threat if you're parked with the radar on, but don't take my word for it.

[franze 196]

Actually, in Desert Storm, a HARM missile did lock onto the tail radar of a B-52 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-52#cite_ref-203), so it's within the realm of possibility. Keep in mind though that missiles like HARM and ALARM lock onto radar emissions which I don't think jamming noise counts as, which is why you usually hear about Home On Jam capabilities.

I'm pretty sure a lot of this stuff is classified but my general theory is that RF jammers generate noise on certain known frequencies in order to prevent radars from properly tracking on their various detection and guidance bands. I do believe a side effect of this is that it makes it relatively easy to find out where the noise is coming from. All straight up theory of course; there's probably way more to it than that and probably even less that's out there on the unclassed realm.

[noubernou 77]

Actually, in Desert Storm, a HARM missile did lock onto the tail radar of a B-52 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-52#cite_ref-203), so it's within the realm of possibility. Keep in mind though that missiles like HARM and ALARM lock onto radar emissions which I don't think jamming noise counts as, which is why you usually hear about Home On Jam capabilities.

I'm pretty sure a lot of this stuff is classified but my general theory is that RF jammers generate noise on certain known frequencies in order to prevent radars from properly tracking on their various detection and guidance bands. I do believe a side effect of this is that it makes it relatively easy to find out where the noise is coming from. All straight up theory of course; there's probably way more to it than that and probably even less that's out there on the unclassed realm.

In HARMs way. :p

[blahdy 10]

I want to ask a question to clarify something I'd been wondering about. An RF jammer emits a beam of interference to essentially white out a seeking radar, right?

Wouldn't that make the emitter of such a jammer a prime target for anti-RF missiles like the HARM or ALARM?

Depends, but general answer is technically yes. Home on Jam (HOJ) mode exists for AIM-120 for example.

[kimi_uy 135]

Depends, but general answer is technically yes. Home on Jam (HOJ) mode exists for AIM-120 for example.

Like Franze said, HOJ ain't the same as HARMs and ALARMs locks. HOJ is a type of acquisition of targets for missiles with Passive Radar guidance capabilities (AIM-120, 7M...) by manually locking the source of the jamming. As for HARMs and such, the lock is on Radiation energy itself, in other words, locks onto Radar emisions rather than radar noise.

Edited November 16, 2013 by geraldbolso1899

[BradMick 0]

-----

Edited April 15, 2014 by BradMick

[blahdy 10]

Like Franze said, HOJ ain't the same as HARMs and ALARMs locks. HOJ is a type of acquisition of targets for missiles with Passive Radar guidance capabilities (AIM-120, 7M...) by manually locking the source of the jamming. As for HARMs and such, the lock is on Radiation energy itself, in other words, locks onto Radar emisions rather than radar noise.

Jammer energy isn't "noise"; in order for jamming to overcome a radar, it has to operate in same frequency band (why do you think Aegis radar is so huge and has big range? -- no, the primary reason was never for the long detection range, the actual reason was to ensure that radar always burns thru and never gets jammed when targets are in missile employment zone).

The implementation of guidance between HOJ and ARM is precisely the same in principle, the only difference is that HOJ is rather reactive to verifiable jamming frequency, where as ARM is tuned to specified hostile radar's operating frequencies. Both active radar homing missile employing phased array (i.e. AIM-120) and a typical standard modern ARM have monopulse reception capabilities to estimate LOS information from received signal timings; the only major difference being what type of frequency band you're tracking on. Once you have LOS, then it's just simple proportional navigation to guide onto the source of jammer, or source of radar emission in case of ARM.

[kimi_uy 135]

My knowledge on the topic at hand is limited, but , you just said what I said but in a more technical way. Correct me if I'm wrong, ARMs target radars and Hoj is used to target sources that are jamming your radar seeking normal targets. The principle may be the same, but the purpose of each missile seeking is exactly the opposite.

[blahdy 10]

My knowledge on the topic at hand is limited, but , you just said what I said but in a more technical way. Correct me if I'm wrong, ARMs target radars and Hoj is used to target sources that are jamming your radar seeking normal targets. The principle may be the same, but the purpose of each missile seeking is exactly the opposite.

No, they are similar. Both use cases were developed from same logic and technology since 1960s.

It kind of goes like this: Can you use a Hellfire missile to target aircraft? The technical answer is Yes; but would you actually want to? Probably not, unless you're desperate and have no other assets to deal with the air threat. You probably wouldn't want to use Hellfire to target aircraft, because the probability of kill would be much lower as the missile wasn't designed for intercepting aircraft with various technical reasons, such as -- (1) aircraft maneuvers might overrun seeker gimbal limits or TADS LOS limits for laser illumination; (2) aircraft may just fly out of Hellfire's smaller no escape zone, which with Mach 1.3 acceleration with slow impulse, is not optimized to reach high performance maneuvering aircraft; and certainly (3) if you are going to use Hellfire to knock out aircraft, you probably want to stick to LOBL. But when push comes to shove, yes you can engage aircraft, and certainly slow moving stuff with Hellfire if you had to -- the missile uses proportional navigation and when conditions are right, it can actually intercept an aircraft no problem. In real life, such incident had already happened when Israelis killed a Cessna with Hellfire in 1996.

Same story with HOJ vs. ARM here. HARM is dedicated and optimized for ARM use, with reconfigurable wideband receiver to target all common acquisition & tracking radar frequency bands, increasing you the chance, aka probability of kill to go after that radar. Can you use a HARM to take out a support jammer? Technical answer is, yes you can; but it'll also depend on whether the jammer is sitting on the ground, or moving in the air. You'll note that AGM-88C Block 5 software added target tracking capability against high power jammers, intended to kill GPS jamming sources.

I was responding to the original poster's question about /possibility/ of anti-RF engagement against a radio jamming source, before you suddenly jumped in to pick argument over semantics.

Edited November 17, 2013 by blahdy

[kimi_uy 135]

I was responding to the original poster's question about /possibility/ of anti-RF engagement against a radio jamming source, before you suddenly jumped in to pick argument over semantics.

I apologize if it appeared that I was picking an argument. It's a good thing that this forums let's you share your knowledge and be corrected by guys who really know this kind of stuff, so I stand corrected.

I've got a question, assuming you are flying an apache, if you were to detect an HARMs launch and then turned off both radar and jammers, the missile would go ballistic or will it switch to other targeting methods while in flight to knock down the target?

[kimi_uy 135]

Hey guys, the other day I bought TKOH and the first thing i did was to try out the apache. I know it's not ment to work in TKOH, but anyway I encountered some problems:

1- Radar acq doesn't work.

2- Flight model is smoother, and by that I mean it doesn't have the sensitivity it has on Arma2. I was able to perform barrel rolls and loops but in a much slower rate.

BTW I was running it with Noise Controllers, Hinds and Rearmed.

In Arma 3:

Fooling around in the editor I took the apache for a flight in heavy rain and wind. While hovering or on the ground the airspeed indicator in the IHADSS was registering what appeared to be the wind speed (about 34 nm in full strength wind) :s thus making navigation and "blind landings" very difficult.